So I contacted the ex...

[MissTrudy]

For example, he didn't come fighting back, he wasn't hurt, he didn't beg for a second chance, did he?? Instead you break up with him because you hope by doing so he will miss you and forget about the ex that he is crying for. Unfortunately that didn't happen, and now you are calling, texting and about to be stalking him. Notice how he is just like was during your so called relationship ---> UNAVAILABLE.

 

...and that's because he probably came to a site like this that states NO CONTACT, especially if the dumpee. That if he did come back and fought, cried, etc., he would then be showing he is too needy, clingy, etc. That he needs to work on himself first..etc., etc., etc., So now because he did nothing (which is what is advised consistently) he is the loser or doesn't care.

I got your point and there seemed to be some issues in the relationship to question his investment so it is possible that he is just done but it just struck me the contradiction based on what is recommended over and over again whether it's on LS or other relationship forums.

 

I agree with you wholeheartedly about the contradiction. I feel like I did get a lot of good advice on this forum but I don't get how people can reconcile recommending NC with saying that people who follow NC express no interest in getting back together. I know that NC when done right is supposed to help you move on and not be used as a manipulative tool so that you can get your ex back. I went NC to clear my head and figure out what I wanted and at the time I told him not to contact me. So if you look at it that way, he is heeding my request... maybe from disinterest, maybe because he isn't ready, maybe because of whatever, who knows i surely don't.

 

I guess that the point I am trying to make is that a lot of the advice I am getting or reading here as it pertains to getting second chances is conflicting advice that inhibits the goal of this board: to get a second chance.

 

If he stays NC that means he isn't interested in me so I shouldn't bother...whereas people are told to go NC if they want a second chance...see how if we both follow the advice given here there's no hope for a second chance?

 

And then there's the whole question as to how much a dumper can and should do to get an ex back. I was told that I need to really put myself out there, but dumpees are told to stay NC...even if their ex contacts them with breadcrumbs, even if their ex wants to meet with them or talk to them, even if they the dumper do want to get back with their ex, it's advised that they stay NC for a long time... to me this seems manipulative and unproductive if you want to get your ex back. but if you want to move on (for which I think NC is great), it works. Problem is, the same advice is given to people who want to rekindle a relationship and those who want nothing to do with their exes.

 

This appears to be what's happening in my situation and see where it's going? Nowhere, quick. It's unclear if he is maintaining NC because he isn't interested or if he thinks/was told that it's the best way to get an ex back. And since I don't know what he's thinking (he's not talking to me, after all...) I assume the worst that he isn't interested, even though most of the signs from our relationship did point towards him trying to work on himself so that he didn't screw up and end up in the situation we're currently in. And yes i used the word relationship, i've rebounded guys and i've messed around with guys and i've been a rebound too and the relationship we had was nothing like those instances at all, it was based on EMOTIONAL intimacy and not the "i'm mourning my ex" type of stuff---as he only mentioned his ex twice and each time i brought it up---but rather a genuine desire to get to know about each other's dreams, backgrounds, and interests. there was no clinginess or jealousy or anything weird like that, it was on a great path).

 

I am at a dead end with this situation. And I think that the advice on this type of forum perpetuates dead end situations, because NC is supposed to signal personal growth, interest, and disinterest at the same time, all the while having its practitioners mull over the failed relationship that they're trying to get over through ignoring.

[Simon Phoenix]

Actually, what I advised was you to put yourself out on a limb and tell him, specifically, that you made a mistake and that you want to get back together. If you did that, and he said nothing, then he doesn't want to get back together right now, or that he doesn't trust you.

 

Yes, there are people who think you are foolish for going after a guy who you broke up with because he had unresolved feelings for the ex, but that's a tangent. You're the dumper, you made a strong move, he didn't respond. You can either try again later or say the hell with it and move on. The advice given to you isn't why it's going nowhere -- it's going nowhere because, for whatever reason, he doesn't want anything to do with you at the current time. You can either continue to put yourself out on a limb or you can give up. But pouting and whining about NC doesn't do you a lick of good.

 

Don't be immature and shoot the messenger. Sometimes when things are broken they stay broken. There are two things you can learn from this if you stop blaming everyone else and really take a good honest look at the situation 1) come up with a set standard of boundaries and stick to them and 2) be extra sure that you want to break up with someone before you break up with them. Never, ever, ever threaten or execute a break up as a way to control someone's behavior.

 

Either way, the advice given to you on this board is not why this hasn't worked in your favor.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Simon Phoenix

[MissTrudy]

Actually, what I advised was you to put yourself out on a limb and tell him, specifically, that you made a mistake and that you want to get back together. If you did that, and he said nothing, then he doesn't want to get back together right now, or that he doesn't trust you.

 

Yes, there are people who think you are foolish for going after a guy who you broke up with because he had unresolved feelings for the ex, but that's a tangent. You're the dumper, you made a strong move, he didn't respond. You can either try again later or say the hell with it and move on. The advice given to you isn't why it's going nowhere -- it's going nowhere because, for whatever reason, he doesn't want anything to do with you at the current time. You can either continue to put yourself out on a limb or you can give up. But pouting and whining about NC doesn't do you a lick of good.

 

Don't be immature and shoot the messenger. Sometimes when things are broken they stay broken. There are two things you can learn from this if you stop blaming everyone else and really take a good honest look at the situation 1) come up with a set standard of boundaries and stick to them and 2) be extra sure that you want to break up with someone before you break up with them. Never, ever, ever threaten or execute a break up as a way to control someone's behavior.

 

Either way, the advice given to you on this board is not why this hasn't worked in your favor.

 

in no way was my last message directed at you, i actually think that you gave me sound advice and i am following it (i'll admit to whining though). It wasn't really directed at any of the advice I was given, but it was commenting on the contrasting narratives of advice people are given in the same situation, depending on which shoes they're wearing, and assuming they have the same goal of a second chance. It doesn't even relate to my situation, tbh. But I bring it up in this thread because there have been a few posts here speculating about how he feels and how he should/would act. It could easily be another thread. I think allumere said it best:

 

"I got your point and there seemed to be some issues in the relationship to question his investment so it is possible that he is just done but it just struck me the contradiction based on what is recommended over and over again whether it's on LS or other relationship forums."

 

I've gone on a tangent with the whining about NC but I do think it's relevant to second chances...how exactly can this advice about pushing and pulling help people get back together, when one party is told to push and the other one is told to pull away?

If someone was dumped and was looking for advice on how to get the ex back, it would be to pretend that he/she is moving on. Google it, I did! and that's all I found.

 

But if someone mistakenly dumped a person and looked for advice on how to get him/her back, it would be to beg, plead, apologize and convince your ex to get in a dialogue.

 

So two people in this situation are being told conflicting advice by pretty much the same source. I dont think this applies to my situation, but it sure as hell applies to a lot of situations and that is what I find striking. Of course this is a board where people present their opinions, not facts. but the opinions are not consistent. Obviously opinions change as more facts about a case are learned but I don't think everyone is changing their opinions so drastically because they're learning more, I think that the opinion are just in conflict, simple as that.

 

I can't wrap my head around how I see loads of stuff about dumpees waiting it out via NC until the dumper begs and pleads on their knees, and then *eventually* you take the dumper back (I wonder what the success rates are for that)... I've also seen stuff about dumpers should be doing this or should not be doing that. I think if someone wants a second chance but maintains NC it's manipulative, and isn't the second rule of the NC rule to not use it as a manipulative tool?

 

Yet people on this board post that they want to get back with their ex, their ex contacts them out of the blue, and the advice they're given 95% of the time is to maintain NC or respond very tersely. how does that help someone who wants a second chance?

 

Yes, this advice helps you move on, which is what NC should be used for, but I don't think it helps you move back together, which is what I imagine the people posting under second chances want when they ask if they should break NC to talk to the ex who dumped them.

 

Again, I am not trying to blame anyone for the pickle I am in and I am not even talking about my circumstances anymore...but I am interested in why this push/pull dynamic and the conflicting advice exists in a board about second chances. I seriously don't get it.

[Simon Phoenix]

It exists because dumpers are untrustworthy -- simple as that. There are so many dumpers that use dumpees as tools, they keep in contact to wean themselves off of the dumpees, or they use dumpees as ego boosts when they are feeling down, only to ultimately reject them again when all is good in their world.

 

It's up to a dumper to repair the relationship with the dumpee if they should choose to do so. That's not negotiable. You break you, you fix it. That's simple logic. And because dumpers that reinitiate contact are a flighty bunch, dumpees are advised to hold back and stay away from it, especially in the first few months of a break when emotions are still raw.

 

I will give you a real world example. My sister's boyfriend dumped her four years ago for a variety of reasons, and like you, he regretted doing it pretty quickly after it happened. But she was hurt and she wasn't going to be treated like a punk, so she told him to f*ck off and she moved forward, even dating another guy for several months. After almost a year, her ex-boyfriend begged and pleaded for her to talk, and after a while she heard him out. Because she shut him out before, he was serious and did whatever could to make it work. Three years later, and two weeks from now, they are getting married.

 

No Contact is advised for several reasons: 1) to move the dumpee forward from the broken relationship 2) to prevent him or her from making a complete jackass out of themselves in the immediate aftermath of a break and 3) to flush out the true intentions of a dumper sending breadcrumbs. Right now you are getting No. 3, and there's nothing wrong with that. Since you dumped, you deserve it. You need to stop whining and crying about it.

 

Second chances are about the dumper going above and beyond the call of duty to convince the dumpee that they are genuine. I'm sorry that you don't want to play by those rules, but for the betterment of the dumpee that's the way it is.

 

So you have to decide whether you want to continue the pursuit of your ex that you dumped or whether you want to whine and cry and bitch and moan like you are. You are the one who screwed it up, so you are going to have to go through the wringer if you really want it to happen. And you have to realize that there's a good chance that he doesn't want you back. He doesn't trust you, nor should he. You have to go above and beyond the call of duty, and there's nothing wrong with that. That's the way it should be.

 

If you want dumpees to meet you halfway, you have another thing coming. It shouldn't be that way. You have to put on your big girl pants and put yourself out there if you want it to happen. You broke it, you fix it. I'm sorry if you don't like that, or if you don't like that dumpees are taught to hang back and flush out a dumper's true intentions, but that's the way it is, and for good reason. So stop whining, stop crying, stop moaning about it and figure out if you want to go all-in or if you want to stand by your original decision and move on. There's nothing wrong with dumping, but if you want to rescind that dump, don't expect it to be easy.

 

The advice here is very consistent: If you are a dumpee -- make a dumper prove they want you beyond a reasonable doubt. if you are a dumper, it's up to you to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you are genuine in your wish to reconnect. That's the way it is despite the mental gymnastics you are trying to concoct.

Edited March 8, 2014 by Simon Phoenix

[flight E]

Simon you r harsh but true. There is no inconsistency in the advise given here:

 

Dumpee: no contact immediately whether you want ex back or not you must move on from breakup. If ex reaches out after your emotions settle. You must take it slow and be certain of thier intention which must clearly be that theu messed up and want to get back together

 

Dumper: you must go the extra mile, and be clear and sincere in your intention and if Dumpee is willing, you get another chance.

 

The rules are clear logical and sensible I must add

[Meatpuppet]

@SimonPhoenix

 

Great post but better username. You inspire joy-joy feelings in me

[MissTrudy]

ok, thanks for the (long-winded) answer to my question. I see where you are both coming from and what it distills down to. I mostly agree with what you're saying but I think time has an important role that you don't address. I don't want to go into another long-winded post about this where 75% of the response is going to be wasted on personal attacks on my situation, so I am going to try being as succinct as possible.

 

time heals which is great. Time should heal. NC is meant to give you time to heal. But time can and does push people apart as well. Some people need to be pushed apart and most relationships probably don't deserve a second chance. But some relationships do deserve a second chance (and I am NOT saying or trying to rationalize that mine deserves a second chance, so don't even go there with your thinking).

 

I think dumpees are told to be hesitant, and rightfully so because they are already in a vulnerable state and they NEED to process being dumped. But then they're encouraged to really mull it over, to wait until they are no longer emotional (which can take a longggg time, especially if you are interested in a second chance) all the while the dumper is thinking that there's a snowball's chance in hell for a second chance because they haven't heard anything for days, weeks, months, or years after putting themselves out there multiple times. So the dumper moves on, and he/she should. The dumpee moves on too, and he/she should. And the second chance they both wanted doesn't come... again, maybe the relationship just didn't deserve a second chance for whatever reason Which is fine, hopefully they both find happiness anyway.

 

I just presented a theoretical model (which I guess some would equate to "mental gymnastics" but it isn't really that much of a stretch...but maybe that's because I work out my mind a lot anyway compared to others). Of course that is not typical of all relationships, and some dumpers do reunite with their dumpees years down the road, as an anecdote in this thread illustrates, and other posts on this board demonstrate as well. The take-home I get from this interesting discussion is that both parties need to get their **** together and talk it out if they want a second chance. The key word being both. If just one person is not interested in a second chance for whatever reason, or is too scared to talk about it for whatever reason, a second chance is not going to happen. NC might get you to a point where you feel ready to talk, or realize that you don't want to talk, but eventually both parties need to break NC, and I would go further and say that there can't be too much time between both parties breaking NC if both parties want to work together towards a second chance. I feel like this is obvious and something I knew before even starting this discussion, but sometime the obvious needs to be stated in order for it to sink in. This is probably why I am not the biggest fan of NC too, because when done right it works wonders, but it is too easy to use it in a manipulative or destructive way. It isn't a black and white issue; nothing is these days though.

 

At risk of diverting the discussion to my situation and opening the flood gates to personal attacks, I had a conversation with one of my friends last night who is basically in the situation I am in with the roles reversed. It was oddly comforting and is probably going to make me sound like a hypocrite, but it helped me evaluate my situation based on my specific parameters in the model that I presented above. She was emotionally unavailable (afraid of commitment), met a guy who was basically like me that ended up getting frustrated and dumping her. She contacted him after the breakup and he told her to leave him alone for good. months go by and he contacts her saying he misses her, he is sorry, etc etc. A month goes by, she misses him too, and she asks me if she should contact him. And even though she wants to be with him, I told her not to contact him. She doesn't know what she wants yet, and she needs to figure that out before she answers him.

 

So here I am kind of sad that my ex is NC for a few weeks, when I am telling my close friend who is basically in the same situation as my ex, to stay NC. That conversation gave me a lot of perspective.

 

I don't know what my ex is thinking and I am moving on. I put myself out there and he has seen my cards. If he comes back into my life I will happily talk to him and figure things out from there. But I am not going to "live" waiting as if he is going to come back; I think part of the problem I've been having is this feeling that I should put everything on hold. I want a second chance but you don't always get what you want. You could say I need to fight harder if I want him. I could, but I am choosing not to whine, beg, or plead anymore. I am happy with the decision I made and I'll live with the outcome whatever it may be.

[MissTrudy]

that post was much longer than it should have been, apologies. brevity (and relationships) are things that I am still learning to master

 

I am thankful for the opinions people gave and the diverse range of advice and perspectives I got because even if I ended up picking and choosing what was best for me, I certainly got a lot of food for thought.

Edited March 8, 2014 by MissTrudy

[Simon Phoenix]

Yep, I think your answer was more long-winded than mine And honestly, to your example above (not the one with your friend, but the one above it), I don't really have sympathy to the dumper's feelings that there isn't a "snowball's chance in hell" if they don't hear back from the dumpee immediately and enthusiastically. You make the choice to dump, that's a possible consequence. If you really want it, you try again. If you don't, you don't. It's not the dumpee's responsibility to pave the road, or even to make the road safe, for the dumper. The dumper has to do 95-99% of the work. It's not up to the dumpee to "get their sh*t together" because they didn't create the sh*t situation.

 

Your ex (or dumpees in this situation) aren't using NC to manipulate you. They either a) don't want to talk to you currently b) don't trust you or even c) don't trust themselves. It's not a nefarious thing.

 

Now, I'm not anti-dumping. If you feel you need to dump, you should dump, and there's nothing wrong with dumping. But like it's your task to execute the dump, it's also your task to execute the reconciliation.

[Meatpuppet]

I don't know what's better that post or your username Simon Phoenix. You inspire joy-joy feelings in those around you

[MissTrudy]

I've been very pessimistic about second chances lately and I pretty much lost hope, but I decided that I would give it a second (no, third) try and reach out to him again. Well third time is the charm because he responded and we are talking again!

 

It is a little awkward right now and it's just been niceties so far, but he did clearly state that we can talk. I know we can't just jump back to where we left off because we are both emotional people who keep our emotions guarded. And honestly I think it's important that we build a stronger foundation of friendship before I even bring up getting back together... even if that takes months. The fact that we are talking now is a move in the right direction, I think, and I am happy to have that. Trying to be realistic and not get my hopes up, but it does feel good at the moment to hope a little

 

So now that we are talking, I feel like I am at step two and need to tread carefully to maintain the line of contact to work on our friendship and building trust. I don't want to push my luck and be overbearing, and I am trying to take cues for when to end a conversation and when to begin a conversation. I think it's also too soon to ask for an in-person meeting. Perhaps it's just best not to think about it and see how it plays out. Anyone have any advice/experience on how to move forward from where I am now? I'm just curious.

 

Thank you guys so much for the encouragement and gentle pushes before I was literally ready to give up if he remained silent but I think spaced-out persistence worked in my favor!!! :lmao:

Edited March 14, 2014 by MissTrudy

[Heroeric]

First off congrats, this seems like something you really want. Though the most critical thing I must emphasize is that you must completely examine the reason why you two split up the last couple times, and whatever the case was If you have any hope preventing it again don't be afraid to seek guidance in making sure it doesn't repeat itself.

 

Secondly, I wouldn't say it's too soon to meet up in person, just talk like friends though. It's important to realize that you and this person both must not get too carried away while you guys have work making sure what happened before doesn't repeat itself. Its a time consuming process, so you must make sure you have successfully taken care of the flaw from last time.

[RDawg]

And don't forget to apologise for breaking his heart, he will probably appreciate that.

[erklat]

Can you say what content u used to nudge him to respond?

 

I hope you work things out. *hugs*

[MissTrudy]

Can you say what content u used to nudge him to respond?

 

I hope you work things out. *hugs*

 

I just told him that I missed talking to him and that I hope everything is okay with him. It worked like a charm, surprisingly. But I don't think it was the content itself, but perhaps the way I approached it. I left him alone for a while since the last time I contacted him, and I really thought it through on my end. There were days when I thought about contacting him, but then I asked myself, how will I feel if he doesn't say anything? And because the answer was miserable, I knew I couldn't contact him for my own sanity. So think about how you're going to feel/act if you get:

 

a. no answer

b. an answer you didn't want

c. an answer you want

 

Really think it through and make a plan of action. This really helped me, although what I did might've been overkill. But it worked because I definitely act on impulse sometimes and I think the first few times I contacted him I wasn't as ready as I thought. I didn't get what I expected/wanted, but stepping back I realized that what did happen those first few times had a high likelihood. But because I wasn't ready emotionally I was devastated. So I probably should've left him alone a little longer for my sake.

 

So this time I made a ranked list of possible outcomes and also forced myself to write down what i would do in each outcome, and how i would feel given each outcome (1 = good,2 = neutral,3 = bad). It really took about ten minutes to make, and I had about 9 outcomes. I then computed the unweighted average for how I would feel given the 9 outcomes I made, and it was a 2.05, so I decided that was a risk I could take...especially because the outcomes I thought were most likely were neutral. The outcome was a mix of two of the outcomes I ranked with lower probability and a feeling score of 1.5

 

but my work isn't done. I still need to work on impulse control and like you said Heroeric, really thinking things through. I will keep my finger on the pulse of the situation and suggest a friendly meet-up if things continue going well.

[Jiivy]

It's very rare to actually get the dumper's perspective here. Even rarer to get a glimpse of one seemingly wanting reconciliation.

 

Why did you leave them in the first place? Did you date in the mean time? What was it that made you realize the mistake?....

[soLoveIS]

i am trying, but it's easier said than done :/ I have good days and bad days but the last few days have been pretty bad.

 

Do feel for you. When I left, what I felt my situation was, "I am empty with him, may as well be empty without him". Same Hurt, but leaving and moved on with hopes to find someone who shows more care about my feelings and available emotionally.

 

What scares me in your post you said he said communication is important that he (your guy) is now not doin. That is the same My New Guy says. Honestly, hope this does not happen to me, YIKES.

 

If your Guy does not reply back or respond with no communication, it maybe that he does not want to hurt you? Maybe?

 

Wish you the best

[MissTrudy]

We are still in contact and I am trying to decide how to move forward.

 

Nothing is really out of the ordinary with how things are going; I am initiating the conversations and doing a lot of the legwork, which I expected going into it this time around.

 

He responds but I can sense shyness and hesitation despite being cordial. I know I have to push but it's still hard for me to determine how much pushing is enough, how much is too much, and how much is not enough. Any thoughts? I ask him how he's doing and things like that but we have not had real substantial conversations.

 

I am going out of town for a few weeks and won't be able to talk to him or see him. It will be more time for us to reflect I guess. I am thinking that when I get back I should come at him with more force and be prepared to move on if he isn't receptive, as I was the last time. I am still prepared to move on and I think that I am at a good place right now emotionally.

 

Any advice on whether I should suggest a meeting before bringing up our relationship, or bring up our relationship first?

 

I am kind of awkward with starting conversations so maybe that's part of the problem. When we were dating he was definitely the more proactive partner in starting conversations, and after we built a good rapport it was easier for me to be proactive too. But I know I can't pick up where we left off so maybe fear is holding me back.