New development - I met the guy she's been balling!

[Universe]

I tend to be long winded. So if you want to read my backstory, the most brief and thorough account of it is located here MY BACKSTORY

I left my tab open on wednesday night at a bar that is pretty popular with people my age here. Things are usually dead on thursdays so I figured it wouldn't be too much hassle to go down and get my credit card back. When I got there, a band I know was playing. So I decided to have a beer and watch them before taking off. Low and behold, I see my ex. I walk up and say hi. She's really surprised. We hug. It's loud so we can't really communicate well. She starts to walk me outside to talk, but we run into someone I needed to talk to. She went to refill her drink and went outside while I talked to the guy. I wanted to talk to her to let her know why I was there. I was afraid she might think I was stalking her or something. I could see her outside talking to a guy that I thought might be the guy she'd been balling. (Let's call this guy "S" for now). I didn't know if they were still at it or not. For all I know, it's been over for a while now. I excused myself to the bathroom to get away from the guy I was talking to and then on my way out I ran into an old female friend of mine who my ex had been jealous of when we were still together. My female friend wanted to give me her phone number. So she started walking me outside. And I was like - Sh*t! This is gonna look like I'm purposely getting this girl's phone number right in front of my ex. I don't want to appear so imature, especially when it wasn't even my own fault or at all my intention.

Anyways - I get her number and then go to talk to my ex, finally. And guess what? She's like, "Well, that was S." As if I had been watching her. I think she didn't notice what had just happened with my getting my female friend's number because she was so wrapped up with the drama that she feared was possibly about to transpire. She seemed a little flustered I just said, "Oh, ok." She pointed him out to me. I glanced at him for a second and acted like i didn't really care. Then she was like, "Do you want to meet him?" So I said, "Sure. Any friend of yours is a friend of mine." I wish to god I could remember what she said after that. But I think she was surprised and impressed with it. Then I said, "You don't have to if it makes you uncomfortable." Then she said something like, "No, not anymore." So I asked, "Are you guys still together." I can't remember if she said no. Her answer was sort of confused. She impled that they were through. She said, "I'll tell you about it later. I can't really talk about it now."

Then he walked by and she introduced us. Now, she's always been bad at introducing people. So of course, we have nothing really to say to one another. The only thing I can really think to ask him is how he likes ****ing my girlfriend. But I knew that wouldn't be cool, so I didn't go there. I just acted like I didn't give a **** and shook his hand. I was friendly, smiled, and complimented him for his leather jacket (I don't know why - I haven't thought leather jackets were cool since I was 18. Now i think they're kind of dumb). Anyways - I think I played it off alright. He excused himself after a couple minutes and that was all over.

At first site of him, I was relieved. I mean - My first real glimpse of the competition and let me tell you, I felt more than adequate standing next to him. He looked like sh*t. I mean - I'm ten times sexier than this guy.

So I was sorta taken aback. Her and I hung out and talked for a bit. I wanted to hang out, but some other people we know walked up and started talking to us. The conversation was pretty boring and it was clear that I would not get any more one on one time with her. My parking meter was certainly expired. Plus I had told my female friend (who's number I got) that I was leaving and that's why I couldn't really chat and catch up. She walked out and saw i was still there and talking to my ex. I felt like a jerk. But it had only been about 20 minutes. Maybe less. So whatever. She must know what my situation is. Word travels. She's very cool and understanding. I think I'm going to hang out with her. At this point, why not?

So I left. I confirmed with my ex our plans to go horseback riding on saturday and took off.

I felt relieved at first that he was such a bozo. But then it started trickling in. What a slap in the face! She left ME for that CLOWN?!?!?! I've never been so insulted in my life. Now that I've seen him, I can picture them together. He's disgusting! He's like a troll. Plus he's 37 and she's 25. I'm 26. Like - I had forgiven her for going straight to someone else. I understood how I sort of drove her to it. I understood her wanting to experience herself in new dynamics with new people and all that. I've spent the past 4 months figuring out who I am and what love means to me. I've spent 4 months figuring out what I did wrong in the relationship and how I drove her to start sleeping with some guy just 2 weeks after we broke up. This is after the most intense 5 year relationship I've ever heard of. And I actually convinced myself that it was mostly my fault and I wanted to make it up to her. I wanted to win her back and show her how well I could love her. I wanted to show her that I could love her better than she ever thought she deserved to be loved. Because that's what she did for me when we were together. She was so wonderful. And I let her down.

 

But now it's like I have no idea who she is. How could her standards be so low? I mean - if she was attracted to this toad enough to f*ck him...not just to f*ck him, but to decide to risk losing me forever, then she must want to **** half the guys on this planet! It's like - why offer filet mignon to someone who's content with a sloppy joe?

 

So now I'm obviously just as confused as ever. I was just about to start pursuing her more aggressively. I've played it cool for so long and she's done nothing but indicate that she's willing to give me a chance to win her back. I'm pretty sure she wants me to pursue her and win her back. Until last night, I was totally in love with her and ready to give it my all. Don't worry, I wasn't going to pour my heart out to her or anything. I was just going to start spending more time with her and woo her back to me. I was confident that I could.

But now I can't figure out how I feel. This may have been the straw that broke the camel's back. I mean - how much of this can I take? I feel like I have no idea who she is anymore. Even, worse (and I know it's immature in a way, but I can't help it) I feel she's degraded herself. That's not to mention the major hit I just took to my ego.

 

And I have this freakin' horseback riding date tomorrow. I don't know if I can go through with that anymore. I just feel so messed up by it all. I don't want to discuss it with her because I know I won't be able to resist saying what I really think about S and what I think it says about her. I know that will just piss her off and make me look immature.

 

Sorry to be so long again. What do you all think? What should I do? What does all this mean?

[blind_otter]

Sucks when your ex goes for a frump. I saw my ex out on New Years with his new girl, she looked like me plus about 20lbs. with saggy tits. Yuck.

 

Oh, well. I say move on.

[littlelaxer]

So is she dating this guy??? if so why is she gonna hang out with u?? i dont knwo i mean i know people say they want to be friends after a break up but do they really.....

 

I think its great this guy is a dog, makes u feel better but at the same time its insulting to you!! I dont know maybe hes got this wonderful personality (pshh yeah right).

 

I think if shes more then willin to hang out on the side i think there is def some feelings there. In most cases when two people break up its over, and one doesnt want anything to do with the others. Maybe right now she jumped in that relationship for the time being....maybe to see what u do.

 

If u really dont feel like going dont go. Say somethings come up......it might actually get to her that u broke the plans cuase she could be lookin forward to it. ANd then she might have to hang out with the ugly guy (siek sike just messin).

 

But if i were u and u really werent lookin forward to hangin out i woudl call it off. She what her reaction to that is........do u want to be with her again by the way??

[Universe]

I don't know what's going on with the guy. She didn't say No flat out. So that's a good indicator that she is or at least was until very recently. So that kinda pisses me off. But I get the impression that she's been trying to end it with him, but he won't leave her alone. They didn't act like they were together at all. But that may have just been because I was there. I don't know.

 

We have never said we wanted to be friends. We never agreed to that. We only agreed that we wanted to be in each other's lives, and that she didn't want a romantic relationship in the immediate future. She said she'd like the spend time with me in a "friendly context." That was right after I found out about her sleeping with him which was over 2 months ago.

 

Before last night, I definitely wanted to be with her. I was so ready to be back in a relationship with her. I was totally set to go for it. But after last night, I'm confused off my a**. LIke I said, I just feel like I have no idea who she is anymore. It's like, "Hey - let me throw away the most beautiful connection I'm ever likely to have with another human being so I can dive head first into a tank of elephant sh*t! I mean, physically, this guy had no redeeming qualities.

 

I still can't decide whether or not to call off horseback riding tomorrow. Like - I want to be cool and strong and show her that I'm too secure with myself to let it bother me. But what can I say. It does bother me.

 

What should I do?

[littlelaxer]

i wouldnt go if i were u. Just cause the simple fact that ur not looking forward to it. maybe the only good side of going would be to find out if she really is dating this guy or not. But do u think u would be a little bothered just by talkin about him?? i would be for sure. Also, what if the whole time u kinda give off a bad vibe just cause u dont want to go there, and that might mess everything up.

 

Im sure seeing all of this yesterday really messed u all up. Cause its amazing how people can just change within such a short time. i think though it just an outside thing, inside im sure shes the same. Maybe she wanted u to meet this guy so much to kinda show that shes got this fella, i dont know some girls are like that u know, and im sure she saw u talkin to that girl......so she probably was glad to introduce antoher guy to you.

 

Like i said if i were in ur spot i would call it off. Cause as i said before she might be lookin forward to the time together.............if u went tomorrow would this be the first time the two of u did something together alone?? would it be kinda award to you?? and would u even want to talk about this new guy if she brought him up cuase im sure it would be brought up?? i guess u have to think of all of those things if u go ya know......

[Universe]

We've hung out just the two of us plenty. About once every ten days or so we hang out just the two of us. In fact, we've only hung out with other people one other time. I've built up quite a rapport. I feel we're on very good terms.

I've known about this guy for two months now. She hasn't said a word about him since and I haven't asked. So I was starting to think it was over. Based on what I saw last night. I think it's over. In fact, as stated in earlier posts, I think she wants me to pursue her now. I almost feel like she wanted me to meet this guy so I could see what a loser he was so I wouldn't feel intimidated. I know that's a pretty silly thing to think. But that's how it feels. But it obviously doesn't make any sense for her.

what if the whole time u kinda give off a bad vibe just cause u dont want to go there, and that might mess everything up.

You're absolutely right. I think I've been really good about putting off good vibes and staying positive and fun when I'm around her. And I certainly would be putting off bad vibes if I went at this point. I may feel different tomorrow. I'll wait until then to decide for sure. About messing everything up: I almost want to. At this point, I'm so disgusted with her that a part of me just wants to destroy everything. I want her to know exactly how dispicable I think she is for sinking to this guy's level. I want to say, "If you're willing to give me up for this lump of sh*t, then you can have him!"

 

I just can't tell if these extreme emotions will go away like before. I mean - this feels a lot like when I first found out about him. But at that time I was just crushed. Now I'm much stronger and just feel really insulted. I worry that I'll ruin it now by showing my anger and disgust, and then later I'll forgive her and love her again. Because in the grand scheme of things, I know that nothing's really changed. Everything is exactly the same now as it was then. It's just that now I know something about her that I didn't know before. It's truly disturbing. But I don't know if it's really killing my love for her, or if it's just temporarily derailing all rational thought.

[ex]

Universe,

 

Based on everything you've posted about your situation:

 

The extreme emotions are fleeting. It's understandable that you would feel so indignant, but deep down, you love her and you'll want to forgive her again. Sucks that you thought you had gotten past the other guy, but there was still some more pain/forgiving/healing to go through, that's all.

 

Remember that the other guy is only a rebound. She only hooked up with him because she was struggling with her pain of losing you, ie the pain that your breakup caused her. You have to know in your heart that you were not left for this guy - it's not the case that she chose him over you. Rather, she picked him as a consolation prize.

 

So he is not your competition. There's no need to dwell on his physical unattractiveness or any other shortcomings you perceive him to have. He's just another poor soul caught up in the struggles of the human experience, stumbling around trying to find love and happiness. Furthermore, if the relationship gurus are right, this "relationship" doesn't really stand a chance, and it will be his turn to suffer heartbreak soon (if not already). So as entitled as you are to your anger about this guy, try and have a little compassion.

 

IMHO, you have been too "strategic" with all of this. So many of us here have commended you for the way you've been handling your relationship with your ex, and how you have used the separation to work on yourself. But it sounds like you have still been denying yourself (your wants and needs) to the end of getting her back. Hence your emotional explosion of yesterday. Plus I think it's a flashing danger signal that you have expressed so much remorse about the way you had handled the relationship, but not at all mentioned one word about her part in the relationship's difficulties. So while the peeps here will be impressed with the way you've masterminded/ executed moves toward your reconciliation, be wary of us also. Most of us can't help but project our own fantasies of reconciliation on to you - we are all kinda hoping if you do x, y, z like universe has done, you get the girl/boy back.

 

As you wisely posed to me a few weeks ago:

Have you been focussing on yourself and your own needs outside of your desire to be with your ex?

[Universe]

Ex, I don't know what to say. That was awesome. I can't thank you enough and I agree with you 100% on everything you said. You totally have me pegged.

 

(I'll continue to refer to the other guy as "S")

 

First of all, as I'm sure you all would have guessed, I DID go horseback riding with her. Of course. She picked me up and I instantly regretted my decision. We were both immediately so uncomfortable it was insane. She asked me what I had done the night before and I told her. Then I realized that if she's allowed to ask me, then I'm allowed to ask her. So I did. She said, "I hung out with S." I asked her what they did and she said they watched a really bad sci-fi movie and he fell asleep while watching it and that that was her night. She's not into Sci-Fi at all. So I asked if they were "together-together" and she said yes. So I asked if it was getting serious and she said she didn't want to answer that question right now, but that she would later. I took that as a big yes. I said, "Oh - so you're not just f*ck buddies?" She said no and then asked me, "Why? Who are you f*cking?" I said, "Nobody. Some people have standards." I think that really got her. Now it was severely uncomfortable. Almost unbearable. I was a hair away from demanding that she take me home and suggested that if she were uncomfortable that we could call it off. She was visibly upset. But she wanted to go through with it. So I just said, "Let's try to have a good time."

When we got to the ranch she was crying. I told her we didn't have to go. But she wanted to.

Fortunately, the horseback riding was not conducive for socializing. We were prevented from communicating most of the 90 minute ride and that was really for the best. It was terminal though. I was riding a horse for 90 minutes (very uncomfortable in and of itself) and on top of that I just found out that my ex is not only still with this other guy, but they have gotten serious. Plus I just met him two days prior and found him to be significantly less attractive than anyone I ever pictured her with. So I was in hell basically. I came very close to vomitting while on the horse.

But it gave me some time to think about how I thought I would handle the rest of the evening.

I really wanted to go straight home afterwards. I was not emotionally equipped to be with her anymore. But she really wanted to go to dinner. I tried to be pleasant and chatted with her about this and that. On the way to the resteraunt she started crying again. I again gave her the option to call it a night. She said that if I wanted to end the night we could, but she wanted to do dinner. She was in no state to be in public. She was crying uncontrollably. I apologized for my earlier remark about standards. She just said, "Don't be, you're right. It's true." and she started telling me everything.

For the next 4 hours we talked and talked and talked about her and I, her and S, the future, the past, and the present. She cried the whole time and it was a very heavy conversation.

IMHO, you have been too "strategic" with all of this. So many of us here have commended you for the way you've been handling your relationship with your ex, and how you have used the separation to work on yourself. But it sounds like you have still been denying yourself (your wants and needs) to the end of getting her back.

This is exactly what I found out at dinner. I was beginning to realize this was the case. But this made it clear as day. She basically had no idea that I still wanted to get back together. Here I thought it was so obvious. She didn't understand it. It took about 2 hours of her misunderstanding my position before I realized that I was just going to have to lay everything on the table. I was going to have to tell her EVERYTHING because it was clear that she was not going to figure it out from my actions and her confusion had just gone on long enough. I knew this was against all of "relationship guru's" recommendations. But I had no choice. She would never figure it out otherwise.

He's just another poor soul caught up in the struggles of the human experience, stumbling around trying to find love and happiness.

The way she tells it, it sounds totally like he just came on the her like gangbusters and hasn't let up. He's imposing all the standard relationship labels and "I love you" stuff on her and she doesn't like it. But she's so confused that she's going along with it.

Now I find this hard to believe. I mean - she makes it sound like she was completely passive and he did everything and she just went along with it. So I don't think she's totally honest there, but it's better that her telling me the opposite, right?

it will be his turn to suffer heartbreak soon (if not already). So as entitled as you are to your anger about this guy, try and have a little compassion.

She seemed to be crying mostly because she knows she's going to hurt him inevitably. She had nothing but bad things to say about him other than the fact that he's fun and she likes him. He told her that he loves her and she said that she couldn't say it back to him. He's got her so afraid of hurting him that she won't leave. She feels horrible because she feels repsonsible for hurting people. She doesn't want to be in a relationship because she doesn't want to hurt people.

I can't really show compassion for S. But I was considerate of him and understand the guilt she feels for potentially hurting him.

She just kept talking about all the things that she doesn't want out of a relationship and it painted a picture that is exactly like the picture I have been painting in my head for the past 4 months...which is to say, we seem to have the exact same idea of how a relationship should be. At the same time, she's describing S as pushing for all of the things that she claims to not want.

I know. The answer seems simple, does it not? But I didn't push it. I made it clear that I didn't want her to decide right away and that I only wanted her back if she wanted to come back and on her own terms, not mine. She kept saying she didn't understand why I would want to be with her as messed up as she is. I said I wanted to just hang out and get to know each other again and help her through her problems before any kind of romantic relationship. Though I said it, I don't know if she really understood it.

One thing is certain: She is ten times more unhappy now than she ever was when we were together. And that lifts a huge burden of guilt that I felt. I really believed that I was the major cause of her unhappiness. And now I know that I wasn't causing it. I just wasn't giving her the right kind of help. Now I think I know how to help.

 

So it's all out on the table. I'm going to give her a couple days to think about things and then I'll see if she wants to hang out again. I won't press her for a decision. I just want to make sure she's ok.

Do you think that's a good idea?

 

So while the peeps here will be impressed with the way you've masterminded/ executed moves toward your reconciliation, be wary of us also. Most of us can't help but project our own fantasies of reconciliation on to you - we are all kinda hoping if you do x, y, z like universe has done, you get the girl/boy back.

It's been very flattering to hear everyone's compliments. Yes, I am wary. I am wary of everything. I'm just as guilty as anyone for projecting my own fantasies of reconciliation on to other people on here. I've been sooo worried that I am a bad example to follow. I give very forthright advice and here I am, still alone, still not over my ex, still sitting back while she bangs this guy. Not exactly the picture of envy when you really look at it.

 

I realized today just how alone I've been for teh past 4 months and how I've gotten through this (the most traumatic experience of my life) completely alone. None of my close friends know ANYTHING about what's going on. All they know is that we broke up. I've said nothing of S or anything else. You fine people are the only people I've confided in at all and I am eternally grateful. I'm not sure I could have gotten through this without you. But now, no matter what happens, I know I will get through this alright. I wish I could thank you all in person, but perhaps it's better this way. No matter what happens with me and my ex, I believe I will continue posting here for a long time.

 

All that said, I actually am very uncertain as to how to proceed from here. What should I do next? Should I call her and if so, when?

[smile]

She now knows how you feel. She has a lot to think about as far as this guy is concerned. What to do how to get rid of him.. whatever. You just need to lay low and let her call you . Thats what I think.

 

But right now I may be the LAST person you would want relationship advice from. I feel this icky sinking feeling in my gut. It feels like it is actually over this time.

 

But you seem to have a chance. Man take it. I dunno do what you want. Dont have regrets. You were honest and it worked. Life is too freaking short to play games.

 

I HATE THIS!! Not you but this whole game plan thing. I hate having to wonder what to do next ... how to not act too needy but not too uninterested either. Ugh..

 

good luck with you and everything. It seems like a great start. Hang in there. Sorry I am not much help.

[whichwayisup]

I say GO FOR IT ALL. Do what you can to help her through this...But give her some space as well. She now knows how much you want her back and seems she is interested in you as well.

 

Put the hurt away for now, ego in check (sorry, don't take that the wrong way) and just allow it to happen. Don't force it but I think if you both are honest and really communicate things could go your way.

 

Forget that other guy. Who knows what attracted her to him, probably the fact he is older and experienced...But other than that he is not right for her...She sees that now and honestly, I can understand her not wanting to hurt him, but at 37 years old, he's been around the block afew times so I'm sure he can handle it.

 

Good luck and keep on posting!

[Oriental]

chin up man! you are one of the good examples to follow!

 

Smile i know how you feel. all of us here feel the same. it's absolutely tiring to play this game, feels like we are walking on thin ice trying to reach the other end of the river, every step has to be carefully made to move forward........but WE chose to risk crossing this river eh?? well, im willing to risk, it's my way to give things a closure, or another start hopefully?

 

Universe, i think you should wait for a few days to get in contact with her but if i were you i would make the first move after a few days, just to say hi maybe, and have a feel about things. if i were her i would want to hear from you, constantly learn that you care.

 

just personal opinion. good luck with everything!

[Universe]

I think it's a flashing danger signal that you have expressed so much remorse about the way you had handled the relationship, but not at all mentioned one word about her part in the relationship's difficulties.

This is true and I've been considering this as a great danger. It's very hard for me to figure out. I know she was to blame in some ways. But I can't really determine how. She was constantly trying to talk to me and tell me why she thought things weren't working, but I would get hurt and upset. While I always felt that she was being 100% honest with me about our problems, I think she was afraid to tell me the most important part. She never really gave any indication of wanting to see or sleep with other people. She only expressed concern for my extreme loyalty. She couldn't understand how I could only ever want her. I subconsciously took that as a sign that she wanted to see other people and wanted me to want to so that she wouldn't have to feel guilty about it. And subconsciously I reacted by getting compulsively jealous of all the guys she's friends with. Even up to the point when we broke up and I asked her point blank if she wanted to see other people or if there was someone else, she said no. When we broke up we both said that we would not see other people, but I made it a point to say that we should not make it a rule that we won't. I knew I had to remove ALL rules, limits, and pressure.

If she had been honest, she would have told me about S at that time. She had to have known that she wanted to ball him at that point.

But I don't blame her for what happened during the break-up. I'm more concerned with what built up to that. I think she wasn't really honest about what she wanted in terms of freedom and space. But I can't really blame her because I was far more blind than she in this regard. We both knew we needed more freedom and space, but we didn't know how to give it to each other. We were long distance for a couple years in the very beginning of the relationship and it really set up a strangling dynamic between us where we felt obliged to call everyday and constantly be checking on each other (not for fear of cheating, but out of genuine concern.)

At any rate, I'm certainly trying to recall what exactly were her shortcomings in the relationship. But it's hard because behind every one of her problems, I find one of my problems.

 

Thank you all so much for reading that insanely long post! I was afraid it would scare everyone off. I really REALLY appreciate it.

 

he's been around the block afew times so I'm sure he can handle it.

I kept wanting to say this to her. I'm so conflicted because as her friend, I genuinely believe (neglecting my desire to be with her) that this guy is horrible for her. There are so many reasons that she should break up with him, it's absurd. And that's when I take myself completely out of the picture. But I can't tell her this because it will inevitebly look like I am pushing her to break up with him for my own selfish reasons. I'm just hoping to God that her friends are advising her to dump him. I think they are. They have to know how unhappy she is. I'm sure some of them want to see her get away from me too. But no use speculating. While figuring out how to help her through this independent of me is something I feel prepared to do, I can't tactfully do it simply by virtue of the fact that my advice comes from MY lips. It's very frustrating.

I say GO FOR IT ALL....Put the hurt away for now, ego in check (sorry, don't take that the wrong way) and just allow it to happen.

This is where I'm at. Why not risk it? Yes, I could get hurt severely again. But she's worth it. And if that happens, I will know that it's really over and I will move on completely. But I'm not focussing on the possible negative outcomes. I'm focussing on the positive. It's the only way to live.

 

I don't want to strategize anymore, but what would you all advise for future action? I plan to fly by the seat of my pants as a general rule. But it helps to have somewhat of a gameplan in the back of my mind.

Do you think I should call and try to talk about it? Or should I just try to hang out and do something fun together? Should I say, "Let's not talk about it." and just try to show her a good time? Mondays and Tuesdays are her busiest at work, so I figured I'd wait until at least tuesday night or wednesday to contact her. That'll be three days for her to think about stuff. Should I give her more? Less?

if i were her i would want to hear from you, constantly learn that you care.

I want to do this. But I don't want to pester her. She's got a lot on her plate. But I want to show her how much I care. How? How do I show her at this point?

[Mr. Hustle]

Universe...

This is your personnal event. Dont think that because your going through this that you are not capable of helping us. We are all going through this and look, now im doing th samething you did last week for me. Just keep it cool man... The longer she is in this fake relationship with 'S" the more she will be thinking of you.... I mean My Ex, after the movie last week, and not speaking to her this w/e texted me and wants to know if its gonna happen again or it was a one time thing!! you never know what will happen... I just dont know why we hang out with them when they dont want any type of relationship??? What do they want from us?? I know we want them to come back but realistically they arnt just gonna come running back. I think they want to see if they are still attracted to us... It just hurts that they areWith another person, Or leaving town to see "Friends" every weekend In my case.

 

Let her contact you and dont be afraid to tell her you cant meet up... That will make your time valuable to her and let her know your not there when ever "S" is at work or " On call" to her needs...

 

But what the hell do I know Im just a heartbroken 21 year old party pooping Putz!!! J/k

[Universe]

Let her contact you and dont be afraid to tell her you cant meet up... That will make your time valuable to her and let her know your not there when ever "S" is at work or " On call" to her needs...

I know what you mean. That's what the book calls the "love take-away". God - quoting that book feels so silly now.

That's just not feeling right to me at this point. Maybe it will more so tomorrow. But she was just so sad and has really seemed very sad lately. Like - it's not in her moods, but in her eyes and on her skin. When we were together, her sadness frustrated her. But now it seems like her sadness frustrates her and exhausts her. It just feels like she needs my help. I mean - I've felt that she needed help for a long time, but I simply couldn't. So I've left her alone to so she could get help elsewhere. But no one ever helped her. They try, but they can't.

 

Even in the best case scenario, it's going to take us some time to really be back together. It will have to go very slowly. She's extremely confused and I don't want her to come back to me confused.

[ex]

Originally posted by Universe

But she's so confused that she's going along with it. Now I find this hard to believe. I mean - she makes it sound like she was completely passive and he did everything and she just went along with it. So I don't think she's totally honest there, but it's better that her telling me the opposite, right? ..She doesn't want to be in a relationship because she doesn't want to hurt people.

...She kept saying she didn't understand why I would want to be with her as messed up as she is.

 

I think this is big. Meaning, I think this is very, very significant.

 

First off, I don't think there's a deliberate attempt to deceive you. It's more about that she has been less than honest with herself, and is feeling a ton of shame. Not only is she experiencing guilt because of how her rebound has hurt you, she's suffering self-doubt about having been with someone, who, in retrospect, was less than who she really wanted. In order for her to have engaged in this relationship, either she convinced herself she liked this guy, or she genuinely felt some attraction to him. So she feels conflicted about herself and what she did, and bad also because she knows she'll probably be hurting him soon.

 

More on this later.

 

 

So it's all out on the table. I'm going to give her a couple days to think about things and then I'll see if she wants to hang out again. I won't press her for a decision. I just want to make sure she's ok.

Do you think that's a good idea?

 

Slowly, universe, s-l-o-w-l-y. At this point, I actually think you should pull back. You don't want to influence her decision. Not just you don't want her to think you're trying to influence her decision, you should really give her the space she needs to get there on her own. Yes, call her soon to check on her, I'm not saying you should pretend that you haven't crossed a huge fat intimacy line, but I think hanging out soon will hinder the chances of a lasting reconciliation. More on this later too.

 

Yes, I am wary. I am wary of everything. I'm just as guilty as anyone for projecting my own fantasies of reconciliation on to other people on here. I've been sooo worried that I am a bad example to follow.

 

Please keep in mind that we really appreciate your chronicles. No need to apologize for length of posts or anything else, we're all here learning from each other's experiences. Definitely we need to remind each "reader beware" from time to time, though.

 

 

It's very hard for me to figure out. I know she was to blame in some ways. But I can't really determine how. She was constantly trying to talk to me and tell me why she thought things weren't working, but I would get hurt and upset. While I always felt that she was being 100% honest with me about our problems, I think she was afraid to tell me the most important part. She never really gave any indication of wanting to see or sleep with other people. She only expressed concern for my extreme loyalty. She couldn't understand how I could only ever want her. I subconsciously took that as a sign that she wanted to see other people and wanted me to want to so that she wouldn't have to feel guilty about it.

 

K, I think this starts to speak to one of her problem contributions to your relationship, and that you should consider this carefully. Possibly there is a part of her that wants to know what it would be like with other men. You guys have been together 5 years, and you're only in your mid 20's (sorry, that's quite young in my book - tho yikes, I was nowhere near as mature as you at your age). I don't doubt she loves you greatly, but maybe it's that she's not so sure that you're "the one." What could happen is that you get back together, you're very happy for another few months, maybe even years, but as more inevitable relationship difficulties arise, once again other men (even those less handsome than you) will start to be attractive, maybe even irresistible, again. All because you haven't given her the space she needs now.

 

So this ties back to my first 2 comments. When she says things like she has a hard time understanding that you still want her, and she feels so bad about hurting you/him, you probably mostly only feel good. How could you not, you're finding out that she still wants you! You just want to comfort her, and be the loving mate who can forgive her transgression, after all, she feels so much remorse, she's so considerate of others, and you love her. BUT (it's just my humble opinion) you should also be listening for what else might be making her so upset. She's not feeling good about herself (!) Is it just because of this S situation? Or is it because she is not so confident about her desire/ability for commitment? Is she feeling unworthy because she knows, on some level, that she can't give you what you want/deserve? Even if it weren't subconscious, this is just one of those things that even the most honest of us have a really hard time disclosing to the one we love. What is she going to say? Universe, I love you, but I wonder if someone else could make me happier? When our partners have those feelings, they sometimes just kind of deny those feelings to themselves, go back to the one they know they should feel lucky to be loved by... but then end up stomping our hearts into even more pieces, when eventually, they can't deny themselves any longer.

 

We were long distance for a couple years in the very beginning of the relationship

 

Ah... your situation is really just uncannily similar to mine.

 

This is where I'm at. Why not risk it? Yes, I could get hurt severely again. But she's worth it. And if that happens, I will know that it's really over and I will move on completely. But I'm not focussing on the possible negative outcomes. I'm focussing on the positive. It's the only way to live.

 

With every (overly-)cautionary thing I've said up there, I have to agree. But the opposite of being "too strategic" is not acting without considering possible consequences as carefully as possible. I think she wants you back, and I'll bet it happens. But I don't think you should just dive back in without exploring what her guilt/self-esteem/commitment issues are, and you have to try and do that with her. You guys need to do more of that talking talking talking (and listening listening listening), AND it has to happen at a careful pace. I think YOU have to set the pace, because it's possible she may want to come back to you NOW. And you'll probably be just too happy and eager to have her back. But remember to love yourself just as much as you love her, yes?

 

Lastly, I'm only trying to help, universe, but it's really hard for me to gauge how much I'm just projecting my own ex-relationship issues onto yours. Don't get too alarmed by my "devil's advocate" type questions, and take my opinion for what it is, an opinion!

[Universe]

Wow, Ex. I feel like I'm reading my own advice when you post on my thread. Like - It seems like you say exactly what I would tell someone in my situation. I'm just a little too wrapped up in it to say it to myself so clearly.

 

But, again, I think you are EXACTLY right about my situation. I totally agree. I will handle it slowly. I've told myself that even if she wanted to dive straight back in with me that I would tell her that I wanted to go slow. There definitely has to be a transition period where we really find out what she wants. Her leaving S is only one of many steps that need to be taken before she can realistically come back to me. We have a lot to work out.

Yes, call her soon to check on her, I'm not saying you should pretend that you haven't crossed a huge fat intimacy line, but I think hanging out soon will hinder the chances of a lasting reconciliation.

I hadn't thought of it like that. We really did cross a "huge fat intimacy line." That makes me feel good. I mean - Again, I'm conflicted because she is in a sort of agony, but that fact is good news for my chances. But I'm trying to keep it in perspective. I know that there is a very good chance that she'll want to remain apart after she has time to figure it out. Thank you so much for pointing out that hanging out too soon could hinder the long term. I do feel like I am at an extremely delicate point with this whole story.

Possibly there is a part of her that wants to know what it would be like with other men.

I'm aware of our age. It's a very sticky time. Here we've already been together for our entire 20s. It seems like we should have more experiences with other people before we decide to attach permanently. I've left out an important part of the story that may alter some of your opinions. I've only had one other girlfriend before my ex. While I fell deeply in love with my first girlfriend, we never had sex (she was a religious freak - not to discount religion, she was just very extreme/cultish). So my ex is the only girl I've been with sexually. So my ex is very concerned that I have no other experiences to compare her to. She doesn't understand how I could be comfortable promising myself to her without having ever been with another woman. She was with a former friend of mine on and off for 6 years(all through high school) before we got together. So she's now had two other lovers besides myself and I've had none other than her.

I know. All of your jaws just hit the floor. Yeah - Universe is 26 and has only been with one girl. There goes my relationship credibility.

Don't think for a second that I have not given this a WHOLE lot of thought. And I'm still thinking about it. I have considered sleeping with other girls a great deal during this break-up. And I'm still not ruling it out. After this weekend, I'm a bit more concerned with the fact that it will hurt her. I mean - I feel that it could confuse her even more and push her away. Yet, I know that a part of her really wants me to. I think it would be a big weight off of her shoulders. Not only would it alleviate some of her guilt, but would show her that I'm not just a blind fool who took the first girl who slept with him. I know she's afraid that we'll get back together and then I'll get the itch to explore. I don't know that I won't. But if the histroy of my desire for other women is any indicator, then I probably won't.

We talked about this the other day. I was just honest. I said that I only meet about 3 or 4 girls a year that I really want to have sex with and that once I get to know them, that number gets cut in half. I really have high standards. I've tried to lower them many times. But why? High standards got me the only two girls I was ever in love with. I knew both of them well for a long time before dating either of them. After being on this planet for over a quarter of a century, I can honestly say I've hooked up with the two hottest women I've ever met. Now I didn't sleep with the first one, but that's fine because she's nowhere nears being in the class of my current ex as an overall person or as a physical specimen. She is very interested in sex and open to trying new things. I never thought of myself as prudish (far from it) but looking back, I was less adventurous in bed and GOOD GOD do I regret that! I've spent more time focussing on my sexuality and learning about sexual relationships than almost anything else. My biggest regret is that I never really challenged her sexually. She's such a deep person and an exciting lover and now I see the places we could go together in love and in sex are limitless. Now I feel like I can challenge her and take her places that she never would have gone on her own. If there is a limit, I want to at least get there before we call it quits.

I told her that I did not know what would happen and that I wasn't totally sure what kind of relationship we would have. I said that I know the most important thing is that we're honest with each other. I said that our decisions may hurt each other, but if we're honest and really love each other, we'll respect one another whatever those decisions may be. I told her I would even consider an open relationship. I said I didn't really think that would work but that I was illustrating how much freedom I am talking about. I said that a certain amount of codependence is inevitable in relationships, but that as long as our codependence never surpasses our independence, that we would be ok.

I basically said I was considering any and all possibilities and that I wanted to work with her to figure out what is best for us. I gave her all the rope she could ask for.

What could happen is that you get back together, you're very happy for another few months, maybe even years, but as more inevitable relationship difficulties arise, once again other men (even those less handsome than you) will start to be attractive, maybe even irresistible, again. All because you haven't given her the space she needs now.

I know, and that's why I want to be careful not to pester her now. Plus - I think I need to take this space for myself to make sure that I won't have the same problem.

You just want to comfort her, and be the loving mate who can forgive her transgression, after all, she feels so much remorse, she's so considerate of others, and you love her. BUT (it's just my humble opinion) you should also be listening for what else might be making her so upset. She's not feeling good about herself (!) Is it just because of this S situation? Or is it because she is not so confident about her desire/ability for commitment? Is she feeling unworthy because she knows, on some level, that she can't give you what you want/deserve?

I think she is not so confident about her desire/ability for commitment and, yes, I think she's feeling unworthy because she knows that RIGHT NOW she can't give me what she feels I deserve. That's why I told her that I was going to be ok with it if she still wanted to see other people and that I wasn't ruling out the possiblity that I should see other people. This is the biggest thing. She feels unworthy right now because she's not ready to commit. My biggest fear is that she'll never be ready to commit to me. So I'm not pressuring her to.

But I don't think you should just dive back in without exploring what her guilt/self-esteem/commitment issues are, and you have to try and do that with her. You guys need to do more of that talking talking talking (and listening listening listening), AND it has to happen at a careful pace.

Thank you so much for this. I think you are right. I want to be very careful about the pacing of these talks. I've been very careful with them so far. But now it's on a new level. But it's a scary scary level. But thanks to you, I will not fear these talks. They need to happen. I just have to be careful how often.

 

Thanks so much, Ex. I think you said exactly what I needed to hear. I really appreciate it.

[ex]

Again, I'm conflicted because she is in a sort of agony

 

Actually, you will know best here... remember, I don't know her. I only lean towards not hanging out right away, because I sense that you're giving too much right now. She may not be able to meet you halfway, but it seems like she's got to take a couple steps, and she can't do that if you've already rushed to her side.

 

I know that there is a very good chance that she'll want to remain apart after she has time to figure it out.

 

Again, I don't know her, but I doubt it. She's all vulnerable right now. She loves you, and you're making her feel cherished, good about herself - you're offering redemption, in a way. I'm more worried you two will gleefully run back into each other's arms and then have a more nightmarish breakup later on.

 

So my ex is the only girl I've been with sexually...There goes my relationship credibility... I have considered sleeping with other girls a great deal during this break-up. And I'm still not ruling it out.

 

Oh, brother. By that logic, everyone should try smoking crack for the experience? Please be comfortable with who you are. If you are self-possessed about your choice to not engage in casual sex, people should respect that. The only people who won't/can't are people who would feel better about their skankiness if you were skanky too.

 

Yet, I know that a part of her really wants me to. I think it would be a big weight off of her shoulders. Not only would it alleviate some of her guilt, but would show her that I'm not just a blind fool who took the first girl who slept with him.

 

Sorry, universe, but that would be one of the dumbest reasons to hop into bed with some woman you aren't totally into. I suspect you already know this, but I thought you could use the b*tch slap anyway.

 

I told her I would even consider an open relationship. I said I didn't really think that would work but that I was illustrating how much freedom I am talking about.

 

OK, this is serious. Given my personal experience, I recommend that you retract this just as soon as you can. First, I don't think you mean it. Second, you're sending the message you'll take whatever crumbs she'll offer you. Third, she may take you seriously, even if you were just weighing it out loud.

 

This was the crowning glory on the list of ways I f*ed up my relationship. I broke up with him, then wanted him back, so I suggested an open relationship. He tells me he doesn't know if he's secure enough... Little did I realize he'd take me up on it, like, right away. In a matter of weeks he starts to get infatuated with a rebound, suddenly she is irresistible in comparison to headache-/heartache- producing girlfriend, and he musters the strength/resentment/guilt/whatever to break up with me. I'm not categorically against open relationships, just when the people involved can't handle them. (He couldn't.) Universe, if your rant that started this thread is any indication, you can't handle them.

 

My biggest fear is that she'll never be ready to commit to me. So I'm not pressuring her to.

 

Yep, I guess it's the only option you have right now. But no big rewards without big risks, I guess. I do hope your story turns out differently than mine. I think I really am done with mine! I really do deserve better than someone who, when things get rocky, seems to temporarily forget that I'm not replaceable with someone else. I think I'm going to spend more time in the "coping" forum from now on.

 

Thanks so much, Ex. I think you said exactly what I needed to hear. I really appreciate it.

 

I'm glad I was able to help. Please let us know what happens. Good luck!

[Universe]

I sense that you're giving too much right now.

Thank you for saying that. It hadn't even occurred to me. I just spilled my guts! I just told her just about everything. I really did just give a whole lot without even realizing it. She was hurting so much and was so sad, it really felt like I had the upperhand. I forgot to think of how vulnerable I just made myself. You're right. She needs a break from my needs and wants.

I'm more worried you two will gleefully run back into each other's arms and then have a more nightmarish breakup later on.

So am I. I will try not to let that happen. If she wants to get back together, I will definitely take it SLOW SLOW SLOW!

If you are self-possessed about your choice to not engage in casual sex, people should respect that. The only people who won't/can't are people who would feel better about their skankiness if you were skanky too.

Thank you so much for being understanding about this. The thing is, I think she feels skanky right now because of what she's done and who she's done it with. It's so obvious this guy is beneath her and a shallower person would say she's devalued herself (I know I essentially said exactly that. But I was upset at the time.)

Sorry, universe, but that would be one of the dumbest reasons to hop into bed with some woman you aren't totally into. I suspect you already know this, but I thought you could use the b*tch slap anyway.

HAHAHAHA!!! True. Very true. It would be dumb and, yes, I definitely needed the b*tch slap. It's just hard because - among other things, it's been over 4 months since I've had sex and it's starting to go to my head a little. I have needs like anyone else.

Generally, it seems pretty obvious to me that the whole sex with multiple partners thing is over-rated. I mean - What can you do with 100 people that you can't do with one? She's always been interested in sex and all the different sexual dynamics. So have I, but for some stupid reason I was afraid to try them with her. I was afraid that she would think I was wierd or disrespectful. I was afraid that she would disagree with what I was trying to do at that time. And it wasn't worth it for me to risk it, because none of the things I thought about trying were that important to me. But I now I have things that I want to try that I just know she would be into. Since I've been analyzing her psyche so much as well as my own, I really feel I know more about what I was lacking sexually. Most of it has to do with attitude and confidence. I didn't make it comfortable enough. I didn't make her feel secure enough. But I know how to do that now.

But she makes me feel like this sleeping with other women thing is such a big part of it that I just want to do it to get it over with so we don't have to worry about it anymore. I need to just relax. I just need to sit back, be there for her, and let her figure things out. About open relationships:

Given my personal experience, I recommend that you retract this just as soon as you can. First, I don't think you mean it. Second, you're sending the message you'll take whatever crumbs she'll offer you. Third, she may take you seriously, even if you were just weighing it out loud.

Very good point about my reaction when I started this thread. As much as I'd like to think I'm mature and strong enough to handle it, it's obvious that I'm not cut out for an open relationship. It's silly of me to suggest that. I certainly don't want the crumbs. Thank you for that. I will retract that statement. Obviously I'm not against open relationships in principle either. But you're right. I couldn't handle it. DUH! Who do I think I am??

But no big rewards without big risks, I guess.

If there were ever someone worth the risk, it's her.

I can't thank you enough.

[Universe]

OK - I'm really confused as to how to approach her next. We had our big talk on Saturday. It's now Tuesday. Mondays and Tuesdays are her busiest at work. So I think I'm going to call her tomorrow evening just to check up. Like Ex said, I don't think I should try to act like we didn't just cross some huge fat intimacy line. So I don't really want to hang out with her until it's time for a follow up talk. I think it would be too wierd to try and do something fun until the air is more clear.

I do not want to influence her decision or appear to be doing so. But I know it's going to take her a while to straighten things out. I know she's going to need some time. But I'm really worried about her and I want to make sure she's ok. I want to just say hi and check up. I want her to see how much I care.

But what on Earth would I say? "Hi - I just want to make sure you're ok?" That would sound almost like I'm pitying her. And I know she's not going to be ok yet. Should I offer to help in some way? Should I ask to set a date when we will talk again?

Basically, I'm afraid of doing more harm than good by calling her. But I want to call to show her I care. It could very easily turn into a "talk - talk" and I know we're not quite ready for another one just yet.

 

I'm stuck. I don't want to apply pressure, but I don't want to seem like I don't care. This whole thing feels so delicate right now. I don't want to screw it up.

 

Eesh!

 

There are a couple things I want to clear up on my end. I think I said a couple things that might have been misunderstood. Plus there are some things that I've said in the past that she somehow didn't hear. I said them again on saturday, but if she missed my saying them before, maybe she missed them this time. I mean - she was very upset and a WHOLE lot was said. She could easily be forgetting some of the things I said that are very important.

 

So should I tell her that I want to talk again later in the week so I can clarify my position?

Should I just wait until she contacts me?

 

Just asking. I won't do anything until i get a few responses here.

[ex]

Originally posted by Universe

But what on Earth would I say? "Hi - I just want to make sure you're ok?" That would sound almost like I'm pitying her.

 

I don't think it's so bad, probably sounds worse to a man than it would to a woman. If you still don't like, how about "Hi - Wanted to see how you were doing." If she gets shy or unresponsive on you, just follow up with a "OK, I want to give you space, but also wanted to let you know that I'm here if and when you want to talk."

 

So should I tell her that I want to talk again later in the week so I can clarify my position?

Should I just wait until she contacts me?

 

Nah, not unless she turns it into a talk-talk. And no, I think it's really nice for you to call and check on her.

 

It could very easily turn into a "talk - talk" and I know we're not quite ready for another one just yet.

 

Yep, but she might want to turn it into a talk-talk, and then you gotta be ready. But then you also get to clarify those points.

[Universe]

Below is the email I just sent to my ex. It's really been bothering me that she didn't know how I've felt all this time. She off deciding yay or ney on me and I can't help but think that she still might not know exactly where I stand. I looked back on the email I sent her when I first found out she slept with this guy and I see now how she would have misinterpreted it. Since then I've only said that I loved her and wanted her to be happy. I haven't really said exactly what it is that I want. So this is my email making that clear. Let me know what you think.

 

 

Dear [universe's Ex],

I'm sorry to do this now. But I just want to make sure a few things are perfectly clear. I was pretty surprised that you didn't seem to know how I felt. I thought it was obvious. But thinking back on what I've said in the past, I can see how I was less than clear. I think I was fairly clear when I spoke to you on Saturday, but a lot was said and emotions were high. I don't know how articulate I was. So I don't want there to be any more misunderstandings.

First, I love you very deeply and want you to be happy no matter what that means for me. I think I've made this quite clear. So I won't elaborate further.

After that, I feel the main misunderstanding has occurred over what I want. So here it is: I want to get back together. I want to take it slow. I want to approach it as something altogether new and detached from what we had before. I feel I've grown tremendously and am a very different person than I was before. I want you to get to know the new me. I think we've both just gone through something very traumatic and it would be silly for us to dive into the deep end at this point.

I recognize that you are confused. I don't want you to come back to me confused. I want you to come back to me on your own terms. I realize that you have felt the need to see and sleep with other people. I respect that. I do not and will not hold that against you. Sex with other people has and will certainly be different from sex with me. I will understand if you still feel the need to experience more than one person. I will say that my sexuality has been the prime focus of my growth for the past months. The other day I think you said something in reference to our history like, "The sex couldn't have been better." -- or something like that. While I took that as a compliment, I must say that I strongly disagree. I know now that we've barely begun to scratch the surface of our sexual personalities. I see now how my attitude, among other things, stifled both of us in the past and now I am dying to show you how different it will be and how far our sexual imaginations can take us.

At this point, I cannot paint a crystal clear picture of what the dynamic between us would be if we did get back together. It's impossible to say without your input. But obviously honesty must be at the core. I mentioned the notion of an open relationship at dinner the other night. But I only brought it up to illustrate just how much freedom I was considering. I would like to think I could handle a relationship like that. But I will be honest with myself. Based on my reaction to your relationship with , it's pretty safe to say that I would not be able to handle that kind of relationship. So I should make it clear that I am still living in the realm of monogamy, though I'm open to trying just about anything.

I believe we should give each other space. It's clear that we both need it not only for our emotional health, but for the health of our art as well. So I think we should be comfortable with asking each other to be alone at any moment without feeling guilt or rejection. We should also feel comfortable taking extended periods of time to ourselves in order to allow our respective muses to arise naturally.

I worry that I'm getting ahead of myself here. So I'll stop. I think I've been clear enough about what I want.

As far as the immediate future is concerned: I know you are confused and depressed about a great many things. I do not expect you to be able to deal with my wants at this point in time. You can take as much time as you want to sort it out as far as I'm concerned. As a friend independent of my desire to get back together, there are a lot of things I would like to tell you that I think would help you to sort things out. But I will not impose them on you. If you feel you can trust me to advise you honestly and with no consideration for my desire to be with you romantically, then feel free to come to me for that type of advice. I've given it a lot of thought and would feel very comfortable doing so. But I will understand if you do not trust me to separate my love and respect for you from my desire to be with you.

 

I am here for you however you want me.

 

Feel free to contact me at any time or not at all. You are not obliged to me in any way at this point.

 

Love Always,

[universe]

[Oriental]

i used to think that writing a letter to your ex is the least productive thing to get him/her back. but now i take that back. i even want to cut and paste from your letter to write up something for my ex. well done, Universe.

[Universe]

i used to think that writing a letter to your ex is the least productive thing to get him/her back. but now i take that back. i even want to cut and paste from your letter to write up something for my ex.

I've always been anti-email and anti-letters when it comes to serious discussion in relationships. It's too impersonal and too easily misunderstood. I always thought it was sorta immature. But sometimes it's just the least threatening way. Until last night, I thought an email would be a bad move. But something just came over me and I figured I'd write it first. Give it a chance. Then decide whether or not it was a good move to send it. I proofread it about 4 times. I was just focussing on being a clear as possible.

I'm glad you thought it was a good move. That makes me feel good. Feel free to cut and paste all you want. But I will warn you that timing is key when sending this type of message. I only did it because we, indeed, crossed a certain intimacy line last week and she asked me flat out what I wanted. I also would wait and see how my ex responds before I chalk this up as a good thing to do. You never know.

[Gottabestrong]

Dear Universe,

 

you have been a great source of comfort to me yesterday, so I would like to give you my comments on your letter.

 

It is funny, that you sent her that letter yesterday, after you saw how unhappy I was with mine, and you councilled me to not write a letter. But boy, do I know the need to say what is on your heart and mind.

 

I think this is a very good letter, and I hope you feel better now that you told her how you feel and what you want from her. At least now you dont have to worry anymore about not having made clear to her how you feel and what you want.

 

Did you get a reply yet? I hope you are not feeling as bad as I was, when I was waiting for a reply. But I am sure you are not, as you are much stronger than me.

 

Good luck and I hope you get a positive answer from her.

[ddindc]

Originally posted by Universe

 

Before last night, I definitely wanted to be with her. I was so ready to be back in a relationship with her. I was totally set to go for it. But after last night, I'm confused off my a**. LIke I said, I just feel like I have no idea who she is anymore. It's like, "Hey - let me throw away the most beautiful connection I'm ever likely to have with another human being so I can dive head first into a tank of elephant sh*t! I mean, physically, this guy had no redeeming qualities.

 

Have you thought that he was fulfilling some emotional need of hers, not a physical one? That he may have been giving her something that you had not? I'm not trying to be cruel; I understand your situation. She may be attracted to this guy for a variety of reasons that have NOTHING to do with his appearence. If you care for her, try understanding that. If you can't, that's ok, too, but be prepared for what that means to any future relationship you hope to have with her. Personally, I wouldn't throw away the opportunity on something that is - in the end - rather meaningless. You are very lucky to be in the position you are in; may are not as fortunate.