New development - I met the guy she's been balling!

[Universe]

Like you, Gottabe, once the email was sent the anxiety only increased. I'm trying to get my head around it and think about other things. But so far I've been constantly checking my email and my phone. The thing is, I know very well that it will be a good while before she responds. She has a LOT on her plate right now. I know it will take at least a few days before she's ready to talk to me. I don't want to pressure her. She needs all the space she can get right now.

I'm just going to have to get used to this hell of waiting for her to decide for a while. It really is hell. I really need to get my head together and focus on something else. There's nothing I can do about it at this point. It's so hard. I just wish so hard that she gets rid of this guy and comes back to me. I just want this nightmare to be over.

She likely didn't get my email till she went into work this morning. I didn't ask her to respond and told her to take her time. So I'm sure she will. I just hope my email didn't scare her.

We have plans to go to a concert with one other friend of hers 8 days from now. So she'll have to contact me before then.

I know this sounds silly. But I really hope things are less confusing by the time Valentine's day rolls around. I'd really like to make that special for her. But then again, I don't want to push her away. We'll see.

[Universe]

Have you thought that he was fulfilling some emotional need of hers, not a physical one?

I've thought about every reason I could possibly imagine for her to get with someone new so fast. I spoke to one of her best friends by chance right after I found out about S. Her friend assured me that what she was doing with this guy stemmed entirely from how she felt about me. I don't really understand it. I can think of a lot of things I did to drive her away. I was insecure in a lot of ways and afraid of the future. I couldn't seem to make her feel safe. She developed this major anxiety complex. The smallest things would put an uncontrollable fear in her. She was afraid of everything and felt like she was dying all the time. It was so stressful for me, let alone for her. I tried everything I could think of to help her. But nothing worked. It made me even more depressed and frustrated that I couldn't help her.

Whatever emotional needs I failed to fulfill, I don't think she's finding them with this guy.

One thing I find disturbing is the fact that she's almost never been without a boyfriend. She dated a friend of mine all through high school. They were on again off again for six years. They were off more than they were on, but it was always sorta understood that they were together even when they weren't. She was only really single during her sophamore year of college and that's precisely when she started emailing me. We emailed each other every day for that entire year before hooking up the following summer. We were long distance for a while and I know she didn't cheat on me. So there were some good spells where she went without sex. But she's gone 11 years without ever really being single. This was something I felt was a good thing about us breaking up. I thought it would do her some good to be alone for a while. But instead she went straight to this guy after only two weeks.

She's very aware of this fact and I've brought it to her attention more than a couple times - once since the breakup.

What emotional needs was I failing to meet? This is a great question. There's obviously something there. But I don't know exactly what. I've felt it was my insecurity and lack of confidence. But perhaps there's something more that I'm missing. From what I've said here, can you see anything? Maybe I'm still not seeing something.

You are very lucky to be in the position you are in; may are not as fortunate.

I don't feel fortunate. Sure, I feel lucky that she still cares about me and that she hasn't closed the door on me completely. Yes, I do feel fortunate there. But what do you mean exactly when you say I am lucky to be in the position I am in? What position is that?

[Universe]

She responded to my email. But she said virtually nothing. I normally would never post her email on her, but since it's pretty short and empty and I don't really understand its purpose, I'll paste it in here...

 

[universe],

I read this today [my email]. I just want you to know that. I've been working on

stuff all day and I'm not in the mental state to respond to your letter

at the moment. I know that you said you understand that. Thank you. I

have to set limits on how much emotional information I can process at

one time because I don't want to have a nervous breakdown. However, I

really appreciate your taking the time to spell things out for me. It

helps. I had a good time with you on Saturday, and I'm happy that we had

a chance to talk about things for real.

I'll talk to you soon.

[universe's Ex]

 

NERVOUS BREAKDOWN???? What does that mean? Christ! I was afraid I might be applying pressure, but sh*t! I don't want her to have a nervous breakdown over this!

 

What does this mean? I thought I made it clear that she did not need to respond. Why did she? Why respond with nothing to say?

 

What should I do with this. My guess is that I should do nothing. If my last email put the possibility of a nervous breakdown in her head, then I certainly don't want to do more damage than I've already done.

 

I'm definitely not emailing her back or contacting her in any way until she contacts me. Do you all agree with that?

 

Why did she send me this? Does this mean anything? Or is she just telling me to wait?

[Gottabestrong]

Dear Universe,

 

I think she wrote you that email to tell you that she got your message, that it means a lot to her, but that she is going to take some time to reply to you.

 

The fact, that she does not want you to wonder whether she got your message, and how she feels about it, but wants you to know that she will take some time to reply, and you should not read anything into it, is a good sign.

 

She definitely cares about your feelings. Hope you are doing fine while you wait for a reply. At least you know you will see her again in 8 days, so it wont take months for her to get back to you.

[ddindc]

Originally posted by Universe

I don't feel fortunate. Sure, I feel lucky that she still cares about me and that she hasn't closed the door on me completely. Yes, I do feel fortunate there. But what do you mean exactly when you say I am lucky to be in the position I am in? What position is that?

 

You're lucky in that you both obviously care for one another a great deal, and are both (seemingly) unwilling to give up on the other. You have a chance if you play your cards right - most don't have that opportunity.

[Universe]

Thanks for you responses. They're comforting.

 

Now, does anyone think I should respond just reaffirming that there's no pressure? Or does the simple act of contacting her at all apply pressure? I mean - responding would force her to think about me and she may be trying to focus on how to get rid of S. I certainly do not want to interrupt that process.

 

What do you guys think?

[ddindc]

Establish a little NC until she formalizes her reply. It sounded as if your letter gave her much to think about, and she may be trying to straighten-out how she feels.

[Gottabestrong]

I would just give her some days to think about it.

 

Good luck!

[Universe]

Ok - we had our talk a week ago Saturday (10 days ago). I called her Tuesday night just to see how she was doing. I left a message saying this and nothing more. She didn't call back. Then I wrote the above email that you've all commented on. Then she wrote that reply the next day (Wednesday). Then NC for the past 6 days.

Finally, last night she called and left a message. My cell phone shows up as a blocked number on people's caller ID (through no choice of my own). She has one other friend who has the same thing on her phone. Her message said that she saw there were two missed calls that were from a blocked number and no message. So she was calling me back if they were me. They weren't me. I called her back and got her voice mail. I was pleasant and said, "No, the calls weren't me. But I'm calling you now. So call me back whenever." I was very torn because I don't want to pressure her but I feel this tension building between us because of the talk we had and the email I wrote.

So 1.5 hours later I called again. She answered. She said she was exhausted and sounded so. She said she'd just gotten my message but was tired and had just laid down. So I was positive and asked if she was doing ok. She just said she was tired. I confirmed that we were still on for the concert on Thursday. She asked about my album. I'm in the middle of recording an album right now with my band. I told her about it a little but respected the fact that she was tired and didn't really want to talk long. So I just said I wanted to clear the air a little bit. I said, "I'm not really sure what happened the last time we hung out. I only sent you that email because I was surprised that you didn't know how I felt and didn't want that to be misunderstood any longer." She apologized that her response had been so brief and that she really wanted to respond in full even though I hadn't asked her to. I told her, "I'm not making any demands here and I don't expect you to decide what my station in your life is going to be right away." She said, "Thank you. And thank you for your email." She said to keep up the good work on the album and I told her to get some rest. She seemed pleased and I was pleasant as we hung up.

 

So I don't think she was calling to "talk." But it was little bit of a stretch for her to assume the blocked calls were me without my leaving a message. I don't know. Do you guys make anything of that?

 

At any rate, was it bad that I released the tension like that? Should I have kept it in the air. I wonder now if that was the best thing. I wanted to make sure she'd be comfortable hanging out with me again soon.

I just feel like this could easily go either way right now. I know that S is not going to go down without a fight. He's gotten this far. He's obviously going to fight tooth and nail to get her to stay with him. I don't feel like I can effectively pull back without establishing myself as more of a consistent figure in her life. We only see each other or communicate about once ever 10 days or so. I want to be with her more often so it makes more of an impact when I do pull back (if it comes to that).

So am I back to where I was? Should I start arranging more hang out time and planning fun things to do together? Whether she wants to or not, she IS his girlfriend at this point. Should I even pretend to dance around their relationship? I mean - my intentions are out in the open. She hasn't said one way or the other what she wants to do now that she knows my intentions.

Should I just go for it full force until she gives me a sign to hold back? Or should I pull back now? I want to give her time to think and figure things out. But I also want to show her that I'm serious and that I REALLY want to show her how much I love her? Like - shouldn't I try to give her a preview before she decides whether or not she wants to watch the movie? I can't tell if she really needs time to herself to think clearly and I should just leave her alone. Or should I really show her where I'm coming from and try to sweep her off her feet?

 

I'm starting to feel sorta lost here.

Anyone?

[smbz]

Wow thnks for the read so far guys...im going thru this as well and at a low today...ill register later today.

[Universe]

I went to the concert with her last thursday. We went with a couple that she's friends with. We had fun. I was cool and fun. She's still with "S", but we didn't talk about anything. Her and her friend were complimenting me a lot and I was making them laugh. But immediately after dropping her off, I flipped my lid. I broke down and had a fit when I got home. I haven't had a break down that bad since I first found out she was sleeping with this guy. I didn't sleep that night. The next day I decided that I couldn't go on like this anymore. I decided that I need to start proactively trying to forget her. She still hasn't responded to my announcement of my feelings. It's been over two weeks. So Friday I started feeling empowered and that lasted through saturday and Sunday. I felt different. I felt like I was changing. I felt like it was ok to forget her. I planned to never try to contact her again.

Then she called last night just to say "Hi". We chatted a bit and I was a little dispondent. She said she'd watched Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind the night before. I had recommended that she see it. Now I sorta regret it. She said she thought it was really good, but didn't say much else. She told me about what she did the previous day and some other things and then we just hung up. I didn't try to prolong the conversation. Afterwards I broke down again and now I'm back where I started. I can't seem to get back into that mode of proactively forgetting her. It just hurts hurts hurts.

I'm still doing NC. But I feel like my life is falling apart around me again. I was getting so on top of things for a while. I was doing so well. But ever since we had that long talk two weeks ago, I can't seem to get it together. I've been sleeping in and going to work late. I've been neglecting my band and the album that I'm supposed to be managing and in charge of. Everything's falling apart. I'm still working out, but it's not helping the way it was before. I'm getting really depressed and all the things I did before to get un-depressed aren't working this time.

All this working out has given my hormones a charge. But I haven't had sex in 5 months. So I'm getting a little batty. Something has to change and fast.

 

I feel pretty certain that I should keep with NC right now. But I'll ask because I always do and you never know what people will suggest: Should I keep with NC or pursue her and try to woo her and sweep her off her feet?

 

I have no fear because I feel like I have nothing to lose. What should I do?

[demonfall]

I'm going through a similar thing at the moment. Read here.

 

Reading your posts gave me some hope that I could win her back, and gave me some ideas.

 

If you really love her, please don't give up!

[Universe]

She called again tonight. Two nights in a row!

Anyways - I call her back and she's very worked up and confused. She says she needs to talk to someone who's not dillusional and not stupid and that I'm the only person she knows of that fits that criteria. She apologized many times for calling me again after calling me last night. We talked for a bit and she was still worked up. So I invited her to meet me for a drink. She was all about that. So I picked her up and we went to a bar.

We chatted over some drinks for a couple hours. Much was said. We spoke mostly of her and her problems. We talked about our past a bit and what went wrong between us.

 

Then on the way home, she started talking about our situation. She cried and we talked about it for a while. It was basically a mini-repeat of what was said two weeks ago. But she seems much more clear and focussed than before. She made it very clear that there is no future for her and "S" although she has not broken up with him yet. She's still confused about many things and doesn't seem ready to be in a new relationship with me yet. She said she didn't know what a relationship with me would be like and that she didn't know if that would be a good thing for her or not. I explained to her how I thought we would approach a new relationship and at what pace. She was receptive, but still unsure. She said many times that she wanted me to be happy and that she didn't want to continue to hurt me. I told her that I'm in control of my own happiness and that I'm getting on with my life. I told her not to worry about hurting me, that I'll be ok no matter what.

 

It's kind of messed up. Being with her makes me feel strong. I feel like nothing can hurt me when I'm with her. I feel like everything will be ok. I love being with her so much. She was more beautiful tonight than she has been in a while. She looks healthy and rested...which makes sense because she spent the weekend alone just vegging out and watching movies all alone. But it made it very difficult for me to not jump on her and passionately kiss her all over. I had to practice a great deal of self-restraint. But I did.

 

So she left it open. But this time it felt more clear. I definitely think she'll break up with "S" now. But I think it will take a while before we can really get back together. Maybe never. It's hard to say. She doesn't want me now, so why would she ever? She said she loves me and complimented me backwards and forwards. She thanked me many times for talking to her. She was definitely in need and I was definitely there for her. She was appreciative.

 

For the first time, I don't feel like a pile of crap after seeing her. I still feel good! That's the first time that's happened.

 

But now I'm back to waiting and dealing which is no fun. It's clear that it will be a while before she makes up her mind. As has been evident in the past few days, I don't know how much more of this I can take. But I'm taking what happened tonight as a good sign.

 

Any thoughts? Was tonight a good sign? Or just another prolonging of the inevitable? Is she coming around? Sorry to ask, yet again, but - should I continue with NC or should I go back to pursuit mode? I think I'll stick with NC until someone suggests otherwise...or until I lose it again.

 

Is anyone still following this thread?

[NewMe]

Hey Universe

 

It's "ex," except I finally registered. Yes I'm still following your story, though I'm not hanging around here so much. Glad you posted an update.

 

Well, wow, what a tough place you're in. It feels like you almost have her back, she obviously still loves you... and yet she's not back.

 

You're not going to want to hear this, but I'm going to say what I honestly think: I think you should let go. Do I think this because I don't think she's coming back? No. Because she doesn't sound worth it? No. I'm saying it because I DON'T think it sounds like you're in a good place right now, you haven't been for awhile, and because it could get a lot worse.

 

Remember that great place you got to by NC'ing after the breakup? Those times when you felt on top of your game -- didn't you want to always feel like that? Are you feeling that way now? No, even though you say you are feeling good today, if she decided that she wasn't ready to come back, you'd be devastated all over again. These days you almost sound like a different guy, Universe. Much less confident and sure of yourself. Ever since you got what you thought you wanted, when you crossed that intimacy line. You used to sound like the most secure and self-possessed guy in the world.

 

So what if she decided, let's say, a week or so from now, that she's still really ambivalent, but she relented to trying again... how would that make you feel? Giddy at first, I'm sure, but not the happiest guy eventually. So, is that what you want? Really really? You don't want her as devoted as you are? I guess I doubt that she isn't going to feel ambivalent a week or more from now - because you haven't given her enough room to miss you ENOUGH. The truth is that I think she may make a great partner for you, but I don't think either of you are ready to be back together, at least in any truly committed way, at least not right now.

 

However, just because I know that it will comfort you to hear this: on some level don't you know that letting go right now would actually improve your chances for a lasting reconciliation?

 

Anyway, all that said, I'm pretty sure you won't/ can't give up. I probably couldn't, if I were you. So, today I'll end with: whatever happens, remember that you REALLY will be okay no matter what. You've probably already been through the worst it could possibly be with this relationship.

 

I'm getting really depressed and all the things I did before to get un-depressed aren't working this time.

 

The big difference between this time and last time is that you were really doing NC the last time.

 

Good Luck!

[NewMe]

Oh, I left out a key sentence

 

Anyway, all that said, I'm pretty sure you won't/ can't give up. I probably couldn't, if I were you. So, today I'll end with: whatever happens, remember that you REALLY will be okay no matter what. You've probably already been through the worst it could possibly be with this relationship.

 

 

[bOLD]So: why NOT keep at it? [/bOLD]

 

(And just try and keep a sane attitude as best you can. Remember "prepare for the worst and hope for the best." In the worst case scenario, you stay single. So what? You are a smart, young, attractive guy. It's even possible that you could have a healthier relationship. And even though you can't see it from where you are now, someday you might find someone you love even more...)

[Universe]

NewMe, It's great to hear from you again. Thank you so much for following my story. How are you?

 

I know exactly what you are saying. If you've noticed, there's a consistent ongoing question which is: Should I pull back and let go, or pursue? I keep asking because I know that it's getting to be that time where I need to pull back and let go. But I want to give this the best chance that I can, so I don't want to do that too soon. Of course, I don't want to do it too late either. I think I'm getting very close.

I realize now why exactly it is that I feel so good about last night's meeting. It's that it was the first time that she openly initiated contact for the expressed reason that she needed me. She needed me and only me and no one else would do. I feel like I've been being there for her. But this is the first time that I really got to exercise it openly. And, boy, it feels good to be needed by the person you love.

So, yes, I do need to let go. I had my first real taste of letting go this weekend and it felt empowering. I know I can do it. What's really held me back is that she hadn't given me the opportunity to really live up to my promise that I am here for her and love her regardless of what she decides. Last night was my first chance to do that and I did it.

I definitely don't see us getting together any time soon. It's clear that she needs more time. And it's pretty clear that I need to make her really miss me.

I guess I doubt that she isn't going to feel ambivalent a week or more from now - because you haven't given her enough room to miss you ENOUGH. The truth is that I think she may make a great partner for you, but I don't think either of you are ready to be back together, at least in any truly committed way, at least not right now.

However, just because I know that it will comfort you to hear this: on some level don't you know that letting go right now would actually improve your chances for a lasting reconciliation?

I completely agree. And yes, I do know that letting go will improve my chances. But it's these details of when and how. I couldn't blow her off last night because it would have been like, "Oh you how I said I'd be there for you no matter what? Well, I lied."

I guess my big question is: How do I let her know that I'm letting go without actually saying it to her? Just be too busy to hang out when she calls? Yeah, that's what I would advise others to do. I'm probably looking at 4-8 weeks of no contact and being too busy for her before she miss me "ENOUGH." It's just such a scary thing to do at this point. I'm so afraid of losing her. But then again, that's what screwed up the relationship in the first place was my fear of losing her. If she calls in the state she was in last night, I can't imagine denying her. I mean - when she so obviously is desperate for me.

UGGHH - I know you're right. I know I need to do this and I know I've told other people to do this. But I love her so much and can't stand the idea of her suffering. I guess I will have to let her suffer if she's ever going to fully appreciate how valuable my love is.

These days you almost sound like a different guy, Universe. Much less confident and sure of yourself. Ever since you got what you thought you wanted, when you crossed that intimacy line. You used to sound like the most secure and self-possessed guy in the world.

I know. I was. And now the rug has been pulled out from under me. That's why I broke down last week. It was easier before because I was being patient. She was too messed up for me to just leave her like that. I needed to help her out of it or she may have just fallen further down into the clutches of this other guy. I knew she needed time. But I never thought she'd need THIS MUCH time. I thought January would be the end of it. Now it's February and we're talking about waiting even longer? How many more weeks will it take? Now she seems to be getting better emotionally and mentally and I think she recognizes that I had a part in that. I need to relax and get back to where I was before.

 

Do you still say NOW is the time? I know it must be soon. But NOW?

[NewMe]

whew, I don't know. Please remember that there is no right or wrong answer, and furthermore that I am just a subjective human, and my opinions may be based on my personal breakup circumstances...

 

But here is my opinion. Starting now, yes NOW, you gradually pull back. It's not going to be a steady course, because things will come up, like she needs to talk, but you fully commit to a withdrawal. You do not ever contact her on your own initiative. If she calls you, you call back and you are warm and receptive. As time goes on, it may take you a bit longer to call back, and maybe eventually, sometimes you do have other plans. But starting now, you are NOT proactive in any way, you are NOT pursuing her. You ARE moving on.

 

You've done absolutely all you can, Universe. You cannot make it any clearer to her that you are there waiting. Or how great you are, or how you "get" her and love her.

 

I throw around the term NC fairly carelessly at times. Have you seen this thread, especially the 2nd post by midori?: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t45197 So wise! I want to be clear about where I'm coming from. My rationale for your pulling back has to do with the fact that I think your happiness and well-being should be your priority. Not just the appearance of your self-sufficiency in an effort to win your love back. Although I can fully sympathize with the desire, no NEED, to want your ex back. So I know what you're thinking. You're thinking "But I would be sooo happy if I just got her back, newme!" And I know you would, babe. But I think it would be a short-lived giddiness, and it would be sort of a precarious happiness on crutches, ie reliant on her. I think a relationship is only healthy when it's based on want and not need.

 

I wanted to DIE when my ex broke up with me. At the time, I took my extraordinary pain to mean just how much I'd loved my ex, how special this relationship had been, how I only now realized it's true value... But you know what? In retrospect, it should really just have been a big tip-off about how needy and dependent I'd gotten. It should have been a flashing neon sign that I needed to regather an identity and independence outside of him. And now that I have some distance, it's absolutely crazy to me that I didn't think I could survive without him.

 

Not to say that I've fully moved on and have relinquished all hopes for a reconciliation. But now I can see with so much clarity that the only way we have a chance for a LASTING relationship is if I GENUINELY won't need him anymore, and that my life were full and happy without him. (We broke up a few times over the years, and so I feel I KNOW that if I just called, and even just played it cool, that he'd want me back. Because it's happened so often before. But even though we had a great and stable 1.5 yrs of living together between the last 2 breakups, looking back, it was doomed, because there had been at least one consistent source of conflict we'd never really picked up on...)

 

Anyway, you know how you've said that you've appreciated my input because it sounds like something you might say to someone else? It's just really hard to have perspective on your own sit without any distance. Time gives you distance and distance gives you distance. If you can just take a couple steps back (from her and from the relationship), I think things will get much clearer for you.

 

For instance, what do you really want from her? Do you think you might want to marry her? Despite all your passionate emotions, are you really going to feel absolutely unequivocal about making a commitment without having had experiences of other relationships? Is she? And if not, isn't the best time to be on a break? And what exactly is your dealio with needing to define this relationship with a capital R? Aren't you kind of having one anyway, albeit one which is not monogamous or one which others won't recognize as "official"? What's really important to you and why?

 

No wrong or right answers, and maybe you know your answers, and are comfortable with them. But I pose them to you, because I only THOUGHT I knew what I wanted, and had I only been more rational, my breakup would not have happened. Though I am in a secure enough place now that I really do believe it was all for the best, reconciliation or no.

[Universe]

SimilarSituation, Ex, NewMe: You're a genius.

 

I had basically already decided on NC as you've described it. But I wasn't sure if it was the best thing to do in terms of strategy. Obviously, I've gotten too caught up in the strategy part during this breakup. Basically, finding myself and focussing on my own needs, self-love, and self-respect are part of the strategy for winning her back. And then even if the strategy doesn't work, I'm in position to really move on. But the flaw in that is the motivation. About 70% of my motivation came from wanting her back and only 30% came from my desire to win me back. Then when things changed a couple weeks ago, I could see a light at the end of the tunnel. Suddenly I knew I wasn't totally wasting my time. I got so wrapped up in the possibility of getting back together that I totally lost my handle on myself and what I was trying to build within myself. So I continued to act externally in a way that I knew was the right way, but I was on a dangerous course internally. I could have acted out the part that would win her back. But I was too lost in my own emotions to really be looking at it rationally and making decisions based on my true self.

I was starting to get that back yesterday and after reading your latest post, I can see it so much more clearly. I really have done all I can at this point. I can be of no use to her and of no use to myself until I'm absolutely certain of what I want. In my heart I know that I want her. But I will never know for sure unless and I let my own heart go. It may be true that strategically I must let go in order for her to miss me and decide she wants me back. But in reality, I've been getting behind schedule. At this rate, she'll decide to come back and I won't be ready. I really need to put myself out there in a real way. I really need to live entirely as if it is completely over and I'm on my own forever. It's the only way to know for sure.

So I know what you're thinking. You're thinking "But I would be sooo happy if I just got her back, newme!" And I know you would, babe. But I think it would be a short-lived giddiness, and it would be sort of a precarious happiness on crutches, ie reliant on her. I think a relationship is only healthy when it's based on want and not need.

I've been very aware of this. I've known very well that there must be an interim period before we can be full on back together. I've told her that I would want a future relationship to build off the friendship that we have now and progress as slowly as we can. But I'd been looking at that in terms of what she needed, not what I needed. I was still in strategy land. Even if the strategy works to get her back, it's built on an act and not what I'm really going through. I know that I can't let our happiness be totally reliant on her. I really have a lot of thinking and growing to do on my own exclusive of my feelings for her.

I've known this to be true, but I was overwhelmed by my anxiety for my strategy to work. I knew I needed to pull back in a meaningful way. But I was so afraid of going about it the wrong way and losing everything I've worked for. The way you described I should handle it I think is right on. It's what I would have done, but I would have been anxious and uncertain of myself. Now I know exactly what I have to do...both for me alone and for me in relation to her.

Do you think you might want to marry her? Despite all your passionate emotions, are you really going to feel absolutely unequivocal about making a commitment without having had experiences of other relationships? Is she? And if not, isn't the best time to be on a break?

I've always said that I don't believe in marriage in the traditional sense. She and I have always said that we don't believe in marriage, but we believe in monogamy. But ultimately, yes, I want us to be married in that I want to spend the rest of my life with her. I know she is the one. I've known her since I was 15 and I knew immediately there was something incredibly special about her. I always saw her as the ideal partner. Fortunately (or unfortunately if you'd asked me 10 years ago), we were only friends with a sexual tension when we were young. She was in an LTR all through High School with a good friend of mine. My point is, I know her VERY well. I've had a long time to compare her to other girls I know and to find fault with her. I know that to an outsider it can easily look like I've just had my blinders on and I'm lost in an adolescent dream. I knew she was the one when we were younger and yet it was much better that we never got together until we were older. I know that she's the one now, but it seems pretty clear that it is better that we're not together now. I guess sometimes what we want isn't really what is best if we're ever going to get what we really want.

Now is the most important time for me to be making sure that I'm right about how I feel. Even if I'm right and we get back together, it won't work unless I take the time now to know that I'm sure. I know that one of her biggest hang-ups with me is that it's hard for her to believe that I will only ever want her, myself having never been with someone else. I've always felt strongly that it was true. But I need to heed her anxiety and make sure I haven't been wrong about myself.

There's no longer anything to risk. I can do no more to win her back except wait. But if I simply wait and she comes back, I will have doomed it to fail in the long run. I don't want to have to learn that lesson later because then I really will have lost her for good. Yes - now is the best time to be on break. I need to utilize it while it exists. No more waiting, just moving forward.

I feel empowered and enabled. I feel like my whole life is in front of me.

 

You can imagine how much I appreciate how much you've helped me. A thousand thank yous to you.

 

Thank you.

[NewMe]

Really glad I could help. Gives added sense of purpose to all that suffering.

 

And really really glad you sound like yourself again. (Though don't feel bad if you lose it again, I know I still can.)

 

But if I may add a few more words of caution here... surrounding breakups, I think we ALL can feel like our relationships were extra special, that they are the one, your heart KNOWS... And so definitely whenever anyone else says "Oh yeah I felt that too, don't worry, you may not even want them later," we just don't want to hear it. However much we appreciate someone's sympathy towards our situation, we just ignore that part - the part that suggests your experience is typical. Because this is different, this is special, I've really really realized, etc. etc. -- It has nothing to do with anyone's level of experience, when we lose the ones we love, to some measure, we ALL just do this idealization/ romanticization thing.

 

So I think it pays to be skeptical of your feelings here. Again, you need the distance to really really know what you want as well. Given how PERFECT I thought my ex was just a couple months ago, I've been a little shocked at (re)discovering all the ways in which the relationship actually wasn't fulfilling my needs/wants. Really. I haven't QUITE moved on, but I suspect that in some not-too-distant future, I'm actually not even going to want a reconciliation. Even if it were offered to me on a silver platter. Because my brain's pretty much there, it's just that my heart has to catch up. And that's where distance comes in. Just takes time and however much NC you can manage.

 

Just thought that this, too, might bring you some peace. For me, thinking this way just helps me to remember that it is self-defeating to want to DO something about an unhappy situation all the time. Sometimes, the most potent remedy is a little restraint and patience. Much more pleasant to move forward this way than to agonize about the next strategic step.

[Universe]

So I think it pays to be skeptical of your feelings here. Again, you need the distance to really really know what you want as well.

I fell in love with my high school girlfriend who I was with for a short while before we went away to college. We tried the LDR thing for a while and then broke up. I was certain that she was perfect and the best thing ever and all I wanted was her. It took me almost two years to get over it. I finally realized that she was not the person i thought was perfect, but that I had invented that person. I had fallen in love with my invention and because we were long distance, it was easier to project this on to her. I got over her and in to other girls. I'd never felt so at one with myself.

So I've been wrong about love before. That's given me an element of skepticism of my feelings from day one of my relationship with my current ex.

we just don't want to hear it. However much we appreciate someone's sympathy towards our situation, we just ignore that part - the part that suggests your experience is typical. Because this is different, this is special, I've really really realized, etc. etc. -- It has nothing to do with anyone's level of experience, when we lose the ones we love, to some measure, we ALL just do this idealization/ romanticization thing.

I'm know I'm right about her. But if I'm right, why not test it? Plus, if I'm right, I sure don't want to mess up a potential future with her by not taking this time for myself to really let myself develop absolutely exclusive of my feelings for her.

I don't think I really idealized or romanticized her after breaking up with her. There wasn't a day that went by while we were together that I didn't think I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her. Yes, I got dependent in a lot of ways and lost my identity. It didn't take breaking up for me to see this. I knew it very well for a long time. Breaking up did wake me up to the problems. I knew the problems. Breaking up woke me up to the solutions. Her sleeping with someone else woke me up to the severity of the problems.

In retrospect, it should really just have been a big tip-off about how needy and dependent I'd gotten. It should have been a flashing neon sign that I needed to regather an identity and independence outside of him.

I hadn't really realized just how dependent I had gotten. I knew I was dependent and that I needed to change that. But I couldn't figure out how until we broke up. It's the same thing with identity.

At the time, I took my extraordinary pain to mean just how much I'd loved my ex, how special this relationship had been, how I only now realized it's true value...

I already knew how much I loved her. So the pain of the breakup did not really make me realize that I loved her or thought our relationship was special. It just took away the anxiety. It's like - I was so worried for so long that we were going to break up because I knew we had these problems (codependence and identity crisis on both sides) and we couldn't find our way out of it. We were both very depressed for a long time and had severe anxiety. She actually started getting agoraphobic. I started having to take care of some of her fundamental needs. I had to drive her to work because she grew to fear driving too much. She had a situation with her insurance company and she couldn't deal with it, so I had to do it for her. She just lost a lot of her basic abilities to function. She became dependent on me in this way. I was very wrapped up in my music and relied on her for friends. It was one of those things where when we broke up, all my friends were her friends so I no longer had any friends except the guys in my band who I've been friends with for years. But they're all in relationships and had similar situations, i.e. not many friends.

So a big part of my reconstruction has been going out and making new friends. It' been fun and it really needed to happen for me to re-establish my identity.

 

So it wasn't a case of me not knowing what I had until it was gone. It was more of both of us being so wrapped up in each other for so long that we were failing to function independently. When I say I shoulder the blame for the break up, it's because I was more paralyzed by the situation than she was. She did more to help me than I did to help her. But it didn't help. I tried to help her, but just couldn't seem to make a dent.

We both knew the break up needed to happen and it came about mutually. I thought I knew I was healed very soon. But in retrospect, this time apart was very necessary. Now I think that even more time apart is necessary. I still love her and miss her very much. But we really shouldn't be together now. I'm just afraid that I'll lose her forever. But if that happens, it will be because it's what she wants and I can't argue with that. I just wish the last couple years of the relationship hadn't been so bad because I know I'm really sexier, more fun, and more exciting than I was at that time. I feel like it's not fair because she got a false representation of me.

But there's nothing else I can do about it. It's been me that's kept us as close as we are now. It was my strength that kept our reconciliation a possibility. I think that counts for something. I would never use that as a bargaining chip in an argument with her or anything like that. I just think it would be a strong statement for her to totally turn her back on that. But that's up to her.

 

So, yeah, I still think she's the one. But I'm not letting that stop me from being myself. I'm not letting that stop me from pursuing other girls and pretending she doesn't exist. I need to know for sure what my heart really wants. And I also need to practice being myself if I'm ever going to have solid enough identity for a real relationship.

 

Incidentally - knowing my situation as well as you do, what would you recommend I do or don't do for Valentine's day. I figured I'd just send a card saying, "I know Valentine's day is for lovers. But it's also for people who love each other. So Happy Valentine's Day. Your Friend, [universe]" Keep it short and friendly. What do you think of that? Should I just not do anything? I figure anything more than the card would be too much.

[Universe]

So I think it pays to be skeptical of your feelings here. Again, you need the distance to really really know what you want as well.

I fell in love with my high school girlfriend who I was with for a short while before we went away to college. We tried the LDR thing for a while and then broke up. I was certain that she was perfect and the best thing ever and all I wanted was her. It took me almost two years to get over it. I finally realized that she was not the person i thought was perfect, but that I had invented that person. I had fallen in love with my invention and because we were long distance, it was easier to project this on to her. I got over her and in to other girls. I'd never felt so at one with myself.

So I've been wrong about love before. That's given me an element of skepticism of my feelings from day one of my relationship with my current ex.

we just don't want to hear it. However much we appreciate someone's sympathy towards our situation, we just ignore that part - the part that suggests your experience is typical. Because this is different, this is special, I've really really realized, etc. etc. -- It has nothing to do with anyone's level of experience, when we lose the ones we love, to some measure, we ALL just do this idealization/ romanticization thing.

I'm know I'm right about her. But if I'm right, why not test it? Plus, if I'm right, I sure don't want to mess up a potential future with her by not taking this time for myself to really let myself develop absolutely exclusive of my feelings for her.

I don't think I really idealized or romanticized her after breaking up with her. There wasn't a day that went by while we were together that I didn't think I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her. Yes, I got dependent in a lot of ways and lost my identity. It didn't take breaking up for me to see this. I knew it very well for a long time. Breaking up did wake me up to the problems. I knew the problems. Breaking up woke me up to the solutions. Her sleeping with someone else woke me up to the severity of the problems.

In retrospect, it should really just have been a big tip-off about how needy and dependent I'd gotten. It should have been a flashing neon sign that I needed to regather an identity and independence outside of him.

I hadn't really realized just how dependent I had gotten. I knew I was dependent and that I needed to change that. But I couldn't figure out how until we broke up. It's the same thing with identity.

At the time, I took my extraordinary pain to mean just how much I'd loved my ex, how special this relationship had been, how I only now realized it's true value...

I already knew how much I loved her. So the pain of the breakup did not really make me realize that I loved her or think our relationship was special. It just took away the anxiety. It's like - I was so worried for so long that we were going to break. I knew we had these problems (codependence and identity crisis on both sides) and we couldn't find our way out of it. We were both very depressed for a long time and had severe anxiety. She actually started getting agoraphobic. I started having to take care of some of her fundamental needs. I had to drive her to work because she grew to fear driving too much. She had a situation with her insurance company and she couldn't deal with it, so I had to do it for her. She just lost a lot of her basic abilities to function in the world. She became dependent on me in this way, although I was little help (despite doing everything I could think of). I was dependent on her because I was very wrapped up in my music and relied on her for friends. It was one of those things where when we broke up, all my friends were her friends so I no longer had any friends except the guys in my band who I've been friends with for years. But they're all in relationships and had similar situations, i.e. not many friends.

So a big part of my reconstruction has been going out and making new friends. It' been fun and it really needed to happen for me to re-establish my identity.

 

So it wasn't a case of me not knowing what I had until it was gone. It was more of both of us being so wrapped up in each other for so long that we were failing to function independently. When I say I shoulder the blame for the break up, it's because I was more paralyzed by the situation than she was. She did more to help me than I did to help her. But it didn't help. I tried to help her, but just couldn't seem to make a dent.

We both knew the break up needed to happen and it came about mutually. I thought I knew I was healed very soon and tried to reconcile. But in retrospect, this time apart was very necessary. Now I think that even more time apart is necessary. I still love her and miss her very much. But we really shouldn't be together now. I'm just afraid that I'll lose her forever. But if that happens, it will be because it's what she wants and I can't argue with that. I just wish the last couple years of the relationship hadn't been so bad because I know I'm really sexier, more fun, and more exciting than I was at that time...or really at any time during the relationship. I feel like it's not fair because she got a false representation of me. It's even possible that she prefer the old me to the new me. Who knows? I'd just like to give it a fair chance. But I need to solidify the new me first.

There's nothing else I can do about reconciling. It's been me that's kept us as close as we are now. It was my strength that kept our reconciliation a possibility. I think that counts for something. I would never use that as a bargaining chip in an argument with her or anything like that. I just think it would be a strong statement for her to totally turn her back on that. But that's up to her.

 

So, yeah, I still think she's the one. But I'm not letting that stop me from being myself. I'm not letting that stop me from pursuing other girls and pretending she doesn't exist. I need to know for sure what my heart really wants. And I also need to practice being myself if I'm ever going to have solid enough identity for a real relationship.

 

Incidentally - knowing my situation as well as you do, what would you recommend I do or don't do for Valentine's day. I figured I'd just send a card saying, "I know Valentine's day is for lovers. But it's also for people who love each other. So Happy Valentine's Day. Your Friend, [universe]" Keep it short and friendly. What do you think of that? Should I just not do anything? I figure anything more than the card would be too much.

[Universe]

Exactly one week of NC after we hung out last, she called me last night. I was picking up one of my band mates and driving him back to the studio to do some recording when she called and said she just passed me going the other way in her car. She seems pleasant and excited that we "crossed paths." I asked her if she received my Valentine. I had made her a silly drawing in Microsoft Paint and sent it to her with a bag of Twizzlers. She loves Twizzlers. She hesitantly said yes, but that I hadn't signed it. I was confused because I had. So I asked her what it was because I wasn't sure if it was mine. She said is was a black pearl neclace. She assumed it was me who sent it because I had bought her a black pearl neclace a few years back for Christmas that she loved and wore all the time. I told her it wasn't me and must have been a secret admirer. She said, "I don't know why, I'm not a very admirable person." I guessed if it wasn't one of her brothers or her father or "S".

Then she said that she was just calling to see if I wanted to get a drink or something. I had just picked up my bandmate so I said I couldn't do it for another couple hours. I told her I'd call when we were done in the studio and we hung up. Then she called back a couple minutes later when she got home. My Valentine was waiting for her at home and she had called to thank me and that she thought is was really funny and liked it a lot.

I regretted my agreeing to meet her for drinks. I felt like I should deny her and had a good enough excuse. But it was fricken' Valentine's Day. It was Valentine's Day and she was asking to hang out with me. So I couldn't refuse.

So after dropping my friend off, I went and picked her up and we went to a Karaoke bar. We both sang and embarrassed ourselves. We talked over few drinks. She talked more about her problems and sorting them out. The main topic was her decision to start seeing a shrink. I agreed that it would be a good idea. She said that she doesn't feel anything. She said that she thinks she hasn't felt anything for the last year and a half. She has emotions, strong ones. But she says that even when she feels emotional, it feels detached from her and that it's not really her body that feels it. A friend of hers said that it was a mental illness. I don't think it's a mental illness. But I think she should see a shrink. After about an hour of talking she seemed to be getting anxious. A tear came into her eye and she wipe it away. She didn't start crying, though that's come to be standard for our meetings. I started to feel like she wanted to tell me something but was afraid. At this point it seemed like she was trying to tell me that she'd decided that she didn't want to be with me and that she didn't see how it could ever work with us. But she never said it.

We went to a different bar and had a couple more drinks and talked a bit more. I was fighting off this overwhelming desire to comfort her. I just wanted to hug her and kiss her until all her pain went away. But I practiced restraint. And I know that hugs and kisses aren't going to fix anything in her.

I asked her about the neclace and if it was "S". She said, "No, he's really cheap and he wouldn't send it like that because he would want be there to take credit for it." She seemed to be very annoyed with him but half-heartedly agreed that it probably was him. But then she said that she went to the website it had been ordered from and that it was like a 70% off deal.

It got late. We hung our from 11:30 to 3:30. When I took her home I got out of the car, walked over to her, and shook her by the shoulders and said, "IT'S GONNA BE OK!" I told her that I thought she seemed to be getting healthier and healthier ever time I saw her and that she seemed to be getting closer and closer to figuring her **** out. I told her I didn't think she was mentally ill, but to go see the shrink. I said, "Don't worry about me. I'll be ok. I don't want you to have to be worrying about me." We were definitely parting for the night, but she made a point to say that she was too tired to talk about "things" right now. I agreed. I was pretty exhausted. I gave her a big kiss on the forehead as we hugged goodbye and then I left.

Then I had the most beautiful dream that seemed to last all night. Her and I were together and it was like it is now but we were back together and kissing and hugging and cuddling were allowed. I haven't had a dream like that for a while.

 

So what was all that about? The good news is she didn't spend Valentine's Day with "S": Very good sign. She spent it with me: also good sign. But beyond that, I have no idea. She still seems pretty confused and lost in herself. I want to help her so bad. It really hurts me to see her go through this. It really seems like she's hurting. It was intolerable for me to know that I could be putting pressure on her by wanting to get back together. That's why I shook her and told her not to worry about me.

 

Was that a bad thing to have said? How do you think she took my telling her not to worry about me?

 

So I'm back to square one on NC and trying to let her go. But it was Valentines' Day and she called me to hang out. Could anyone resist that?

 

I don't know if there's really any new information her. But do any of you have any comments on this? Does anyone believe it was fate that we just happened to cross paths on Valentine's Day of all days?