To ALL the Humans out their

[loyal always]

I am finding it very upsetting that people on this board keep using the fact that we are only human as an excuse to hurt the people we love .

 

WHAT ABOUT COMMITMENT ?

 

WHERE IS THE LOVE?

 

MORALS, ETHICS, and DEVOTION and the fact that if married your SACRED VALS?

 

I don't get it ?

[Tony T]

Excellent question and excellent concerns.

 

Most of the references I have made about people only being human were in response to people wanting explanations about why their spouses or partners cheated on them. Most were in very good relationships and there was really no good reason for this to happen. But it did happen because we are simply human, it's just the nature of the beast and reality.

 

Now, to each of your questions specifically:

 

1. WHAT ABOUT COMMITMENT ?

 

Some people are capable of making commitments, others aren't. We have all made promises that for one reason or other we were not able to keep. A commitment is a promise in a relationship to be faithful, true and to work to nurture and develop that relationship.

 

Most people usually mean it when they make a commitment. But circumstances change, feelings change, people grow in different directions, people are tempted and simply can't resist, etc. If you don't like the idea that it's because we're only human, come up with your own angle. I'll take all the explanations I can get.

 

I am one open guy here. I would love to have a better answer to why people are the way they are. It's easy enough to say they just weren't honest, weren't raised right, were deceitful, etc. but we already knew that. We are trying to find out WHY here and I am burning for a better explanation than the human falibilty theory.

 

When people say "I do" at their marriage ceremony, I am positive that 99.999 percent of them absolutely mean it. But, in America, more than half of them will divorce. Yes, the MAJORITY of people won't live up to their commitment. The reasons are many but for one reason or other, they just can't see their way to staying in a particular relationship. From money problems to infidelity to addictions to boredom, people (uh, human beings) find all kinds of reasons to back off their commitment.

 

All members of the LA Police Department took an oath, committing themselves to uphold the law, yet more than a few dozen have been fired and/or prosecuted for breaking the law in a recent scandal there. Richard Nixon took an oath as president "to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America" yet he was forced to resign as chief executive after it was discovered he had participated in a coverup of criminal activity on behalf of his staff. He didn't keep is commitment, made under oath.

 

I could go on forever, but human beings are human beings. They make committments all the time they just can't keep. Oh, yes, we can just say they're bad people...but most of us do this at one time or other. This would imply it has more to do with the human condition. I just think humans will never, ever be perfect...and there is no such thing as a guaranteed, foolproof committment.

 

But, PLEASE show me otherwise!!!

 

2. "WHERE IS THE LOVE?"

 

It's everywhere, it's all there is, really. And it becomes perfect once you can love unconditionally, that is, despite the fact that we are all falible little creatures roaming the earth and known as human beings.

 

Some kinds of love are more permanent than others. Agape love, or the love we have for a higher power, seems most omnipotent. Filial love, the love we have for our fellow man, friends, etc., while sometimes selective, seems to always be there to fall back on when times are difficult.

 

The very best, I think, is unconditional love, which usually comes from our parents. They love us whether we graduate with honors from Harvard or go out and rob Chase Manhattan Bank. But don't ever think romantic love doesn't come with conditions. Can a true committment be made if there are conditions? The very nature of commitment implies it will be kept WITHOUT conditions...but this simply isn't the way it works out.

 

Romantic love makes us feel the greatest, puts us in a euphoric state, and rightly so. People will foresake all other kinds of love for it. It's nature's way of beckoning us to reproduce. Romantic love between two people can fizzle out over time. If the two people are also great friends and share a lot of admiration and respect, a very strong companionate love can develop. But lots of times it doesn't because two simple human beings succumbed to the passions of the moment, not looking beyond the chemistry to see if other necessary components were present to ensure longevity of the realtionship.

 

3. "MORALS, ETHICS, and DEVOTION and the fact that if married your SACRED VALS?"

 

The morals, ethics and devotion an individual has depends on lots of things, but most particularly how they were raised, what morals, ethics and values they were taught by their parents. And there are lots of hipocrites out there. They are selectively moral, ethical and devoted as it suits their individual circumstances.

 

Vows should be sacred, but even the churches themselves have installed back doors where people can wiggle out of them by annulment, dissolution of marriage, etc. The Catholic Church, which fifty years ago excommunicated people who divorced, today embraces them with love...perhaps realizing that their members are "human."

 

(Certain churches have paid millions of dollars to settle lawsuits filed by young men who were molested by clergymen who took VOWS of chastity, poverty and obedience and are "expected" to sort of behave themselves in an exemplary way. Clergymen are just humans trying to guide others spiritually and are subject to the same frailties as any others.)

 

I will say there are people who have the best intentions of living their life in the most moral of ways and strive to uphold the best ethics and values they can. There are even those to stay in miserable marriages in order to fulfill the commitment they made. But putting up with a lot of crap to fulfill a commitment is a human thing as well, in my opinion. People who do make sacrifices in order to keep their word should be admired. Whether or not they serve as an example is irrelevant. Most people are not like them, except in a very selective way as described above.

 

4. "I don't get it ?"

 

NEITHER DO I. Somebody, please help!!! Please tell me there is more to it than just being human!!!

[Tony T]

YOU WROTE: "I am finding it very upsetting that people on this board keep using the fact that we are only human as an excuse to hurt the people we love."

 

I think I am probably the only one who keeps going back to our humanity and faliblity so I have to take the heat for all of that.

 

I do think that we are all directly responsible for our behavior, good and bad. We do have control over it. But it is our own humanity that does not allow us to be consistent, to fail to live up to our own expectations, to give in to temptation and evil.

 

I am sorry you are finding my posts very upsetting but you must take responsiblity for continuing to read them. And I must take responsiblity for my ignorance. I suppose my posts are more a desire to find the real truth and should not be construed as fact.

 

In my post above, I have made an earnest plea for help on this topic and I appreciate you making me do much more thought about this.

[unnamed]

Exactly my friend, exactly.

[David]

YOU WROTE: "I am finding it very upsetting that people on this board keep using the fact that we are only human as an excuse to hurt the people we love." I think I am probably the only one who keeps going back to our humanity and faliblity so I have to take the heat for all of that. I do think that we are all directly responsible for our behavior, good and bad. We do have control over it. But it is our own humanity that does not allow us to be consistent, to fail to live up to our own expectations, to give in to temptation and evil. I am sorry you are finding my posts very upsetting but you must take responsiblity for continuing to read them. And I must take responsiblity for my ignorance. I suppose my posts are more a desire to find the real truth and should not be construed as fact. In my post above, I have made an earnest plea for help on this topic and I appreciate you making me do much more thought about this.

[Ed]

One of the hardest things in this world to accept is - Human Fallibility. All of us are subject to failing to live up to someone's expectations, whether they be our own expectations of ourselves or our expectations of others.

 

The whole state of being human (and therefore fallible) can really only be addressed under philosophical and/or religious terms. One cannot apply logic or the scientific method to the state of being human. There are way to many variables to deal with in trying to "figure out" humanness.

 

Explaining away broken commitments as human error or human fallibility in no way excuses or absolves anyone from the consequences of their error or failure. It is just a means of resolving in our human heads that there are no absolute guarantees in this world.

 

I would further like to propose that a major source of anger and hate in this world is directly connected to those that cannot and will not accept the state of being human. People hurt and kill other people because of their lack of understanding of the human condition.

 

We are all hurt by broken commitments and we all want retribution for the pain we feel. All kinds of punishment has been devised to try to make people pay for falling short of expectations. Everything from the "cold-shoulder" to the electric chair is designed by us to get other people to "act" the way we expect them to act.

 

I do not intend to release anyone from the consequences of their actions, from lying to murder. We should all have some expectations and our societies must have laws to manage and maintain stability. But at the same time, we must realize that people will fail to measure up to someone's standard from time to time.

[Tony T]

Ed:

 

Thanks for helping me make my point. Very well expressed!!!

[Tryst]

I am finding it very upsetting that people

on this board keep using the fact that we are only human as an excuse to hurt the people we love .

Reasons for failure to keep a commitment are hard to nail down. There can be any number of reasons for a person to fail even if it's done to protect someone else.

 

One of the main reasons for people to make a commitment is to get what they want. People will promise anything if it gets them what they want, most never think of the consequences of their promise. The prime example would be the 12 monthly payments for the new car. How many cars are re-possessed every day because they couldn't keep their promise to pay the monthly payments? Most know right from the start that they can't afford the payments.

 

Politicians are well known all over the world for making promises they know they can't keep. If they didn't, they would never get elected.

 

There is only one promise you can honestly keep. "I will do the best I can". If you a fallible and fail to meet up to the other persons standards, you can't be accused of breaking any promises. However it won't get you want you want because it amounts to an admission that you can't commit to it.

 

Imagine a wedding and the groom is expected to say "I do" and he says "I'll try" instead