Pedwin's back

[Mr Spock]

I disagree with you. Do you honestly think a suicidal person would rather kill themselves than live a happy life? Until you look behind the eyes of a suicidal person you truly won't understand how it messes with you. My ex's dad hung himself and by the miracle of god survived. He had a whole family behind him, and no one knew about his depression.

 

I don't know where you get that, at all. I think people who commit suicide are selfish for only thinking about their own pain.

 

 

 

 

It's hard to understand the lack of hopelessness that depression causes. There are varying levels of depression, but I am talking when it's at it's worst. You don't enjoy life, you literally don't enjoy anything. When you smile or try to feel like you want to have a good time, it's all fake. It's an act. Suicidal people are very good at acting. That's why it's important to take any mention of suicide very seriously even if it's in a joking manner.

 

I'm also very aware of this Jmargel. However, this paragraph doesn't diminish the selfishness of taking your own life. Removing your presence from the world. It doesn't alleviate the responsibilty of NOT scarring irrevocably the people connected to you. (if that's a double negative, I'm sorry, I'm sure someone knows what the hey I'm getting at)

 

Pedwin is having a really hard time of things, and has for quite a while. Her ex husband's killing himself because she left him was not her fault.

[Grinning Maniac]

I disagree with you here Spock. I've never bought the whole "suicide is selfish" bit. Frankly, because I've been there myself in the past. Thankfully, it IS the past, but I still know what it feels like. When you get to a point in your life where getting out of bed no longer seems worth it, or you're sitting in an empty room for an eternity with a straight razor against your wrist, it's a whole different ballgame. It's really condescending to call someone selfish for offing themselves. Stupid? Maybe. Impatient? Possibly. But not selfish.

 

Let me pose this question to you. If someone has absolutely no joy or hope in their life, ceases to feel anything but numbness, and very honestly does not want to be around any longer, who are you to demand that they continue living a life they hate living, just for the sake of keeping other people happy? That seems like slavery. Living for someone else doesnt seem too fun.

 

Who is more selfish? The one who ends their pain in the only way they see possible, or the people who would prefer that person to live in misery just so they don't have to feel "bummed out" or miss them? It's their life. No one elses. The decision to continue it or exit stage left has nothing to do with anyone else's feelings. It revolves around the guy with the gun in his mouth and why he has it there.

 

Suicide is usually not a wise choice, but not because it's "selfish".

 

My $0.02

[Mr Spock]

No, it's selfish because you stop caring how taking your own life would impact those around you who love you, and don't want to have to plan your funeral, dispose of your body (perhaps even ID'ing it at the morgue!! How fun!!)

 

Not to mention the fact that the ones left behind will continue to berate themselves for the rest of their lives that they didn't stop you, didn't recognize the signs, and weren't able to "cure" you.

 

 

Let me pose this question to you. If someone has absolutely no joy or hope in their life, ceases to feel anything but numbness, and very honestly does not want to be around any longer, who are you to demand that they continue living a life they hate living, just for the sake of keeping other people happy? That seems like slavery. Living for someone else doesnt seem too fun.

 

Now THAT'S just plain silly. You're still around-when you were contemplating suicide, do you regret now you've been forced to live?

 

A new thread should be started if you wish to continue the issue-so Pedwin's isn't trampled.

[pedwin]

I agree with both of you!!! The person who commits such an act is definitely not mentally sound but I was told by a therapist that when it's done because of a relationship gone bad etc. it's the ultimate F.you!!!! The police told me that if I had come home that night they would have taken me out in a body bag. He had called and asked me to come and talk to him. I told him I would but changed my mind. He had two glasses on the night stand. He intended to take me with him. The last words he ever spoke to me were F You Bitch! His family blamed me and still do. For the first year they sent me dead roses and Christmas and Birthday cards with the return address the grave yard. It was horrible!!! They came into my home on the day of the funeral and wiped me out. I was in no shape to deal with them.

Pedwin

[Mr Spock]

Originally posted by pedwin

I agree with both of you!!! The person who commits such an act is definitely not mentally sound but I was told by a therapist that when it's done because of a relationship gone bad etc. it's the ultimate F.you!!!! The police told me that if I had come home that night they would have taken me out in a body bag. He had called and asked me to come and talk to him. I told him I would but changed my mind. He had two glasses on the night stand. He intended to take me with him. The last words he ever spoke to me were F You Bitch! His family blamed me and still do. For the first year they sent me dead roses and Christmas and Birthday cards with the return address the grave yard. It was horrible!!! They came into my home on the day of the funeral and wiped me out. I was in no shape to deal with them.

Pedwin

 

Pedwin, I didn't want to say it but that's what I figured happened. The ultimate "I'll show YOU". Selfish.

[jmargel]

When you are mentally unstable how can you be *anything*? Let alone selfish. As much as you like to believe he did it because he wanted the last word in saying 'F You', he more than likely did it because of the depression, the emptyness and the rejection. He could have done many other things besides killing himself and trust me.. If he really wanted you dead he would have hunted you down. If he knew he was going to die and wanted you gone, what would have stopped him from going after you? Nothing.

 

Suicide to me is only selfish when you take another's life. Other than that Suicide is truly an act of desperation, not selfishness. Suicidal people defy your understanding, therefore you come up with this judgement of their actions. What you don't truly understand is that suicidal people don't truly want to die. They were driven to this by their situation/circumstances which has made them mentally unstable. They don't do this to 'get back at you' or to 'make a point'.

[moimeme]

a mysogonit being someone who likes women.

 

No. A misogynist is someone who hates women.

 

Because people that kill themselves Jmargel are extremely selfish-depressed yes, distraught yes, but also selfish.

 

Objectively, yes, however this statement betrays a complete lack of empathy. I haven't been there except briefly once long ago, but one ought not have had to have experienced the bleakness of depression to at least try to comprehend the utter blackness and hopelessness that surrounds one.

 

Try this, Spock. Go into a closet at midnight in your darkened home. Open your eyes wide. See anything? That's as far beyond themselves as suicidal people see. They are caught in a vortex of misery that feels endless.

 

'Selfish' means thinking only of one's feelings. Well, adultery is 'selfish'. And all the time I see on this board immense quantities of sympathy for adulterers but adulterers are not usually clutched in the grasp of a mental ailment that prevents them from even thinking about others. They choose their course of action knowing someone else will be hurt. And not caring.

 

People who are depressed, have tried suicide, and get saved will almost always say they feel they were a burden to others. Not that others would feel pain and miss them, but that they were sure that others would be better off without their miserable selves. In many cases, it is the ultimate sacrifice because they think they will improve others' lives by not being there. Illogical? Well imagine that! People with a mental ailment not thinking logically!!

 

This ex of Pedwin's seemed to be a bit of a different case, but sick all the same. Clearly it's stupid thinking suicide is the 'ultimate F you' since the only person who is f*&%ed is the dead one. Anyone with that amount of anger is sick in another way but still not thinking logically.

 

It disgusts me when people berate depressed people or people who are suicidal. It's kicking someone who's already down and I hate that. To think that it is a genuine 'selfish' act (i.e knowing others will suffer but not care) demonstrates zero comprehension of what it is to be in indescribable misery.

 

Adultery IS selfish because the participants do have a choice. Depressed people's brains are hijacked by the condition and the condition leads them to believe there is no choice.

[jmargel]

Very well said moimeme..

 

When I was suicidal I felt like a burden to everyone. That they knew what happened, but was only around because they felt pity or wanted to hear & be a part of the soap-opera that was going on at the time. I had a lack of self-respect and love that is essential to leading a healthy life. It truly terrifies you when you are suicidal and you try to look into the future.

 

People who kill themselves due to a relationship being over with have a temporary lapse of sanity. The pain they endure in their heart is too much to bear. Often these are people who live life by their heartstrings. They are usually very sensitive people even if they don't show it. They also put their own self-worth into the relationship. I did that (unknowningly) and when she was verbally & emotionally abusive while she was with me it was like part of me was being killed off. When she left it was like it was the final blow. What I have learned to do (since counseling) was to not take these belittlements to heart. If your mate says something negative to you, you have to be strong enough inside to not believe it. When it was being done to me I started to feel like a failure and tried my best to get a positive reaction and not feel that disappointment.

 

When she left, I took all the blame & guilt. There could be nothing more disappointing and feeling of being unloved & unwanted when she left. I didn't want to talk to anyone for the longest time because I didn't want anyone else looking down on me. I tell ya, she really did a number on me. But time, along with alot of good advice and soul-searching I found out she was doing to me what her mom did to her (which was abuse her).

 

I can almost guarantee that Pedwin's ex is not pointing & laughing at her from the other side. In my beliefs he is probably a lost soul somewhere. He is probably living an after-life full of regret and sorrow. I doubt anger is still in him, and I would hope he would want the best for you Pedwin. His death is not the cause of your current marriage. So if you do decide to end it with your husband, do it with a clear conscious..