I wanna improve my "game" significantly. What resources?

[runaway]

I don't think I am naturally good with women, so I wanna study them and need to figure out what I am doing wrong. What resources do you recommend other than Neil Strauss' "The Game"?

[Robman9911]

The best resources are women.

 

So field research is needed. You can just talk to them, or find social situations where you can learn more about them. Nothing beats first hand experience.

 

And you can't figure out what your doing wrong, because there is no one right answer. If one woman finds you charming and wants you to be her man no more research is needed.

[jrh1524]

The best resources are women.

 

So field research is needed. You can just talk to them, or find social situations where you can learn more about them. Nothing beats first hand experience.

 

And you can't figure out what your doing wrong, because there is no one right answer. If one woman finds you charming and wants you to be her man no more research is needed.

 

Please, for God's sake DO NOT ask women for dating advice. Robman should have his man card revoked for the next 6 months for this absolutely horrible advice. Women will NOT give you a straight answer on ANYTHING.

 

Ask your guys friends for dating advice or google Corey Wayne.

[topaMAXX]

Please, for God's sake DO NOT ask women for dating advice. Robman should have his man card revoked for the next 6 months for this absolutely horrible advice. Women will NOT give you a straight answer on ANYTHING.

 

Ask your guys friends for dating advice or google Corey Wayne.

 

I'd say this is solid advice.

 

BUT make sure you ask a guy that actually has what you want. For example, I have a friend that is very good with women. He has tons of casual sex with very attractive women. However, these women are not really long term options (once you get to know them).

 

I have another friend that has been married a few years to an awesome, extremely attractive woman. She is as perfect a wife as I've seen. He has never had casual sex.

 

All depends on what you're looking for.

[Assasda]

jrh1524 is absolutely right. Do NOT. DO NOT ask women.

 

topaMAXX is also right. Ask other guys that are good with women, become friends and see how they do. Some other good advice is. WORK ON YOURSELF. Become a better person, personally, and you will be better.

 

There are tons of Resources. David Deangelo comes to mind. Coach Corey Wayne has youtube videos and a book I believe

[JungleLover]

Whatever you read and whoever you get your advice from just remember one extremely important thing when it comes to try to improve yourself in this category.

 

 

You must interact with a lot of women.

 

Don't get lectured or well read on the topic and think you are about to get somewhere without a ****load of approaches. View yourself as a work in progress even years from now so that you won't get discouraged after a whole lot of dating. People are complicated.

Edited March 2, 2014 by JungleLover

[antonio1149]

Please, for God's sake DO NOT ask women for dating advice. Robman should have his man card revoked for the next 6 months for this absolutely horrible advice. Women will NOT give you a straight answer on ANYTHING.

 

Ask your guys friends for dating advice or google Corey Wayne.

 

To be fair to Robman, it didn't sound like he was recommending that the OP ASK women for advice about dating. He was merely suggesting the OP INTERACT with women and learn from the experience.

 

I would be wary of the all the "pick up artist" and "game"--type products and gurus. Some of what they promote has value: mainly, doing things to become more confident (dress better, become more successful at work, practice talking to women). But there's also a lot of BS designed to give you false hope and take your money ("You can be short, fat, bald, and unemployed--it doesn't matter, you can still score with a different Perfect 10 every night, I'll tell you how if you buy my $500 course."). Go to Amazon and read some of the negative reviews on books like "The Game"--a lot of women don't fall for that crap.

 

In addition to just practicing being social and developing a thick skin to rejection, I say to read some books about the female psyche, what they want, how they communicate, what succeeds with them. "The Way of the Superior Man" by David Deida, "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman, "Women are from Venus, Men are from Mars" by John Gray.

[topaMAXX]

To be fair to Robman, it didn't sound like he was recommending that the OP ASK women for advice about dating. He was merely suggesting the OP INTERACT with women and learn from the experience.

 

I would be wary of the all the "pick up artist" and "game"--type products and gurus. Some of what they promote has value: mainly, doing things to become more confident (dress better, become more successful at work, practice talking to women). But there's also a lot of BS designed to give you false hope and take your money ("You can be short, fat, bald, and unemployed--it doesn't matter, you can still score with a different Perfect 10 every night, I'll tell you how if you buy my $500 course."). Go to Amazon and read some of the negative reviews on books like "The Game"--a lot of women don't fall for that crap.

 

In addition to just practicing being social and developing a thick skin to rejection, I say to read some books about the female psyche, what they want, how they communicate, what succeeds with them. "The Way of the Superior Man" by David Deida, "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman, "Women are from Venus, Men are from Mars" by John Gray.

 

This is what most of PUA recommends.

 

Also, The Game has WAY more 5 star reviews than 1 star (554 vs. 57) on Amazon. Just saying that for perspective.

 

There are some parts of PUA that are really dumb, but there are lots of good parts of it too. Where do you think most dating advice for men derives from?

[antonio1149]

This is what most of PUA recommends.

 

Maybe, but for the wrong reasons. A book like "Way of the Superior Man" exists to help you become a better partner for that special someone, not score with hot chicks as often as possible.

 

Also, The Game has WAY more 5 star reviews than 1 star (554 vs. 57) on Amazon. Just saying that for perspective.

 

That's true of most books. You never really know for sure where all those five-star reviews are coming from. But no doubt, "The Game" is a popular book among the PUA crowd.

 

There are some parts of PUA that are really dumb, but there are lots of good parts of it too. Where do you think most dating advice for men derives from?

 

Unfortunately, from the PUA field. I guess the fantasy of being an awesome James Bond-like dude is more compelling than the fantasy of marrying your high school sweetheart, being with one woman the rest of your life, settling down in the suburbs with a mortgage, and raising 2.5 kids.

 

The OP didn't really say *why* he wanted to up his game. I think a lot of PUA exploits men by promising pie-in-the-sky when it's not really feasible. Not to mention, it doesn't really serve women's best interests, as they are generally looking for LTR which PUA is the antithesis of (mostly).

 

Again, some of it is not without value, you just have to choose carefully.

[topaMAXX]

Maybe, but for the wrong reasons. A book like "Way of the Superior Man" exists to help you become a better partner for that special someone, not score with hot chicks as often as possible.

 

 

 

That's true of most books. You never really know for sure where all those five-star reviews are coming from. But no doubt, "The Game" is a popular book among the PUA crowd.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, from the PUA field. I guess the fantasy of being an awesome James Bond-like dude is more compelling than the fantasy of marrying your high school sweetheart, being with one woman the rest of your life, settling down in the suburbs with a mortgage, and raising 2.5 kids.

 

The OP didn't really say *why* he wanted to up his game. I think a lot of PUA exploits men by promising pie-in-the-sky when it's not really feasible. Not to mention, it doesn't really serve women's best interests, as they are generally looking for LTR which PUA is the antithesis of (mostly).

 

Again, some of it is not without value, you just have to choose carefully.

 

The bolded is questionable. I know MANY women that are not looking for anything serious, more that aren't than are, in fact.

 

I do agree that PUA is more geared towards hookups than relationships though for the most part.

[gaius]

You aren't going to figure out much about wooing women reading a book. Especially anything by Neil Strauss. He can't even get his attractive girlfriend wet for him. Is that the kind of relationship you want? What good is being with someone that physically attractive if she's reminding you how gross she finds you every time you have sex? It's perverted.

 

Instead get a friend who attracts the kind of attention from women you want and become his wingman. If you really want a woman and you're not fighting some kind of subconscious fear of vagina then their technique will start rubbing off on you.

[antonio1149]

The bolded is questionable. I know MANY women that are not looking for anything serious, more that aren't than are, in fact.

 

I would guess this applies mostly to women in the 18-25 age range. Even then, while they might not want something "serious" (i.e., getting married any time soon), they are looking for connection and relationship, not mindless hook-ups.

[antonio1149]

You aren't going to figure out much about wooing women reading a book.

 

Why not? Have you read "The Way of the Superior Man"?

[erusaelptew]

I was lost after my last relationship. So depressed I didn't want to get out of bed EVER AGAIN!!!! Im sure some of you might know what I am talking about.

 

That wasn't going to work, so looked into it and found Vin Dicarlo. Changed my life completely. My confidence went through the roof and everything he talks about is 100 percent "natural".

 

He does offer "boot camps" and I can't wait to go. The reason I can't wait is because I feel he saved my life just from learning how he sees life. My life has become so amazing, meeting ladies that I love being around and I know how to keep them around and avoiding the ones that are a waist of time.

 

"Game" if that is what you want to call it, is just figuring out how to be happy with yourself, being perfectly fine not being perfect, even laughing at yourself when your an idiot. The only "Game" part I see is at first you might have to fake it, live it and then HOLY ****, you finally realize how easy it actually is.

 

All of this is just a learned skill. If you are not lucky enough to have people in your life that teach you this as you grow up, you just have to learn it yourself.

[Scales]

Let me make a little post about "game" vs "pick up artists". Game does exist and its a real thing. Anyone who denies it or insists that it doesn't work or isn't necessary is wrong. However, too many people calling themselves pick up artists are really just guys who are in general manipulative and convincing. They use a few base concepts that really have nothing to do with game to sell snake oil. They don't need to sleep with women, they just need to appear that they do so they can get money from other men. Someone learned that the amount of desperate men wishing to have more sex is a huge marketable demographic. They often touch on actual game, but very few men claiming to be pick up artists actually scratch the surface. More often then not, they are narcissists doing the minimal amount of work to maximize their image: convincing everyone they are something they are not.

 

There is an old blog here written by guy name Shark. This guy understands game as a science and has a very detailed look at how and why game works. I highly recommend this if you are trying to understand game. Solve My Girl Problems

[topaMAXX]

Let me make a little post about "game" vs "pick up artists". Game does exist and its a real thing. Anyone who denies it or insists that it doesn't work or isn't necessary is wrong. However, too many people calling themselves pick up artists are really just guys who are in general manipulative and convincing. They use a few base concepts that really have nothing to do with game to sell snake oil. They don't need to sleep with women, they just need to appear that they do so they can get money from other men. Someone learned that the amount of desperate men wishing to have more sex is a huge marketable demographic. They often touch on actual game, but very few men claiming to be pick up artists actually scratch the surface. More often then not, they are narcissists doing the minimal amount of work to maximize their image: convincing everyone they are something they are not.

 

There is an old blog here written by guy name Shark. This guy understands game as a science and has a very detailed look at how and why game works. I highly recommend this if you are trying to understand game. Solve My Girl Problems

 

Not a bad blog. There is definitely tons of useful information in there.

 

However, the guy does seem PUA-ish to me. Don't get me wrong. I'm all for the red pill thinking, but this guy, like many PUAs, seems to suggest that the reasons why guys do anything is for women. Why they have high paying jobs, why they work out, etc.

 

I can't speak for all men, of course, but, for me, women are a piece of my life.

 

While I definitely agree with the value of knowing game, I generally treat women as sidekicks in my life. I'm the captain and they're the first mate. Although, after thinking about it a bit, I have natural game....and this seems to come about naturally for me.

[antonio1149]

Let me make a little post about "game" vs "pick up artists". Game does exist and its a real thing. Anyone who denies it or insists that it doesn't work or isn't necessary is wrong. However, too many people calling themselves pick up artists are really just guys who are in general manipulative and convincing. They use a few base concepts that really have nothing to do with game to sell snake oil. They don't need to sleep with women, they just need to appear that they do so they can get money from other men. Someone learned that the amount of desperate men wishing to have more sex is a huge marketable demographic. They often touch on actual game, but very few men claiming to be pick up artists actually scratch the surface. More often then not, they are narcissists doing the minimal amount of work to maximize their image: convincing everyone they are something they are not.

 

There is an old blog here written by guy name Shark. This guy understands game as a science and has a very detailed look at how and why game works. I highly recommend this if you are trying to understand game. Solve My Girl Problems

 

Excellent post--required reading for all, especially those considering plunking down their hard-earned cash for a PUA "guru."

[antonio1149]

Let me make a little post about "game" vs "pick up artists". Game does exist and its a real thing. Anyone who denies it or insists that it doesn't work or isn't necessary is wrong. However, too many people calling themselves pick up artists are really just guys who are in general manipulative and convincing. They use a few base concepts that really have nothing to do with game to sell snake oil. They don't need to sleep with women, they just need to appear that they do so they can get money from other men. Someone learned that the amount of desperate men wishing to have more sex is a huge marketable demographic. They often touch on actual game, but very few men claiming to be pick up artists actually scratch the surface. More often then not, they are narcissists doing the minimal amount of work to maximize their image: convincing everyone they are something they are not.

 

There is an old blog here written by guy name Shark. This guy understands game as a science and has a very detailed look at how and why game works. I highly recommend this if you are trying to understand game. Solve My Girl Problems

 

I just checked out the link--forget about it. This guy's as manipulative and conniving as they come. One example: If you want to have success online (for men), skip the regular sites and sign up with one for married women looking to cheat. If you're single, make sure to lie and say you're married, you'll be more of a "challenge" that way.

[Scales]

I just checked out the link--forget about it. This guy's as manipulative and conniving as they come. One example: If you want to have success online (for men), skip the regular sites and sign up with one for married women looking to cheat. If you're single, make sure to lie and say you're married, you'll be more of a "challenge" that way.

 

Yes but did you read the post? He has an actual good reason for why it would work. I'm not condoning it because its highly immoral, but he has a point. Most of the men who are valuable and have the traits of being sought after by women end up married. If your goal is to get laid, pretending to be married reaches a small demographic of women who fantasize about being with a guy who is married. The fact that its wrong is very stimulating to some. Its a terrible way to find a relationship, but the information you can learn about the way people think is accurate. His point is that it in theory, it would have a much higher return on sex than making any regular OLD profile on a site. He even states that OLD is stacked against men and hes right.

 

This guy is slightly ridiculous but he did make this all free. Some of his stuff you should take with a grain of salt but other parts of it can really help you understand the interaction between men and women and how women think differently then men.

Edited March 3, 2014 by Scales

[erusaelptew]

Ya know, I find it funny how people think so negative of a "Pick-up Artist". If I changed that name to what it really is, a "Knows-how-to-talk-to-woman-and-makes-it-a-fun-experience Artist", it doesn't sound bad at all. You can be an "Anything Artist" if you put enough time and energy into it. I learned a ton from a lot of these PUA's and I keep learning every day.

 

Just like anything else, the knowledge is available, you just have to decide what you want to use it for. There is always going to be ***holes and players out there that use it for game, but for people like me that were just completely lost when it comes to just starting a convo. with ladies, this stuff is golden.

 

Anyone that is good at this stuff knows the most effective way to use it is with no games at all. Isn't that what most of us are look for anyway.

[antonio1149]

Yes but did you read the post?

 

When I went to the page, there were a whole bunch of links to different posts. I read a few of them.

 

He has an actual good reason for why it would work. I'm not condoning it because its highly immoral, but he has a point. Most of the men who are valuable and have the traits of being sought after by women end up married. If your goal is to get laid, pretending to be married reaches a small demographic of women who fantasize about being with a guy who is married. The fact that its wrong is very stimulating to some. Its a terrible way to find a relationship, but the information you can learn about the way people think is accurate.

Yes, I understand the whole logic behind trying to appeal to married women. I've been contacted by quite a few online. I always turn them down. I'm not interested in cheating or supporting cheating.

 

 

His point is that it in theory, it would have a much higher return on sex than making any regular OLD profile on a site. He even states that OLD is stacked against men and hes right.

 

I agree, I say that all the time on this site. But even if I was "just looking to get laid," I wouldn't follow his advice. I guess we all have to decide where we draw the line. My approach seems to help me be able to get up in the morning, look in the mirror, and not be disgusted.

 

 

This guy is slightly ridiculous but he did make this all free. Some of his stuff you should take with a grain of salt but other parts of it can really help you understand the interaction between men and women and how women think differently then men.

 

As I've stated before, the PUA stuff is a mixed bag. Unfortunately, there seems to be a much bigger market for guys who just want to get with lots of hot chicks than for more traditional dating, so this is what we're stuck with.