GorillaTheater Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 In fact.. in the thread he mentions that with the field she is in she won't have any problem paying it back. 100K is alot of student debt, and I think there are a hell of alot of students who's prospects for paying it back aren't quite as good as the woman the OP is talking about. Essentially, they've put themselves in financial bondage for a degree that realistically may not be worth 100K. But that doesn't sound like the case here. Do your research to make sure you don't do anything to assume any responsibility for the debt, if it's that important to you. It may be wise to do so, but at the same time you be asking yourself if you're willing to share in the fruits of the debt, specifically her paychecks. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 FYI...we live in mass (not a community property state) and all the student loans will have been taken out and begun repayment at least a year in advance of our marriage. Respecting your desire to hope for the best and plan for the rest, though I don't think this is a dealbreaker on the personal/romantic level, it would pay to do some pre-marital legal planning just to be sure in case, like you say, something were to happen to her during the M which impeded her ability to repay the loan(s) A couple things to learn about: Are her loan payment plans income-sensitive? If they are, look into how you and she will report your marital income Find out more about how debt collectors in your state can receive judgments against marital assets and how to protect assets from such judgments. My final bit of advice is to enjoy your relationship and look forward to a healthy partnership and marriage but refrain from thinking it'll all just 'work out'. Each step you take now has marked impact on yours and your family's future. Consider each option carefully and make informed choices. If necessary, pay for legal advice. See it, like the student loans, as an investment in your future. Good luck! Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 It's a big number but it's for a good reason. As others have pointed out it's not consumer debt or gambling. Given the size of the debt I think it merits several conversations about money before you get married. How does she intend to pay it off? What will your household budget be? How will you handle retirement savings etc? It's not insurmountable. Alone, it's not a reason to dump her but money is a sensitive issue. Link to post Share on other sites
writergal Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 OP, I have student loan debt from graduate school so I can tell you that you should not let your girlfriend's student loans deter you from marrying her. Fortunately, there are multiple repayment plans available to students so that they can afford to repay their loans and still pay their rent/mortgage, car payment, utilities, food, etc. For example, there is the income based repayment option which lowers the monthly payment based on income. Also, if she ever loses her job she can defer her loan repayments until she finds another job. If you two were married and god forbid she were to die, you would NOT inherit her student loan debt. All you'd need to do is mail her death certificate to the Dept of Education Student Loan Dept., as proof of her death and her remaining balance would be deleted. Legally, the Dept of Ed cannot force your girlfriend's family or spouse to repay her loans once she's deceased. You should not let student loan debt be the reason you don't spend the rest of your life with the woman that you love as that would be extremely foolish. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
writergal Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) But..... If they live in a community property state and get married, he *could* be responsible for that debt as part of the marriage unless they have a very solid pre-nup. Something only a lawyer could advise about and definitely something to investigate. I also have $100k in student loan debt and my new husband married me anyway, knowingly taking on my debt. Hi CarrieT you're actually wrong about the inheriting debt part. Spouses or family members are not legally responsible for repaying a deceased students' loans. It's called the Death Discharge: Forgiveness, Cancellation, and Discharge | Federal Student Aid The only way a spouse is financially responsible for their spouse's student loan debt would be if he/she CHOSE to help repay the student loans. It has nothing to do with a prenup. It's all tax based. My friend's husband contributes 25% to my friend's monthly loan repayments which are $600 a month because she makes a LOT of money every month. Edited March 3, 2014 by writergal Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 For example, there is the income based repayment option which lowers the monthly payment based on income. Also, if she ever loses her job she can defer her loan repayments until she finds another job. If you two were married and god forbid she were to die, you would NOT inherit her student loan debt. All you'd need to do is mail her death certificate to the Dept of Education Student Loan Dept., as proof of her death and her remaining balance would be deleted. Legally, the Dept of Ed cannot force your girlfriend's family or spouse to repay her loans once she's deceased. That's great to get some practical feedback from a debtor. I initially concurred entirely but then I considered the OP's concern about 'happening' and looked into it a bit and found that, in MA, it is *possible*, if the debtor were to become delinquent on a non-income sensitive loan due to a personal misfortune like job loss or, god-forbid, a health condition which precluded them working for a period of time or permanently, that marital assets could be attached via lawsuit to satisfy her otherwise separate debt. Additionally, statute apparently provides that marital income *can* be considered for repayment of an income-sensitive loan so, scary version, their marital income is pooled and she becomes disabled, his income could become attached through operation of law. Also, it's *possible* that in MA their marital income, if combined and if higher than her single income (which is probable), can affect the payment amount. They may have to crunch the numbers on their legal filing statuses with the IRS. That's why I suggested legal counsel. That kind of stuff is worth a look by one of those professionals who may have leveraged their own career with a student loan. Wouldn't life be simpler if money was eliminated? I know, no way to know who 'won'. Link to post Share on other sites
TXGuy Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I think you are smart to be concerned and you should make an informed decision before getting serious about getting married. You should do your own research, but here are some tidbits I found with a quick search: according to the BLS, the average salary (not average starting salary) of a masters educated speech pathologist is just under $70k/year (2012). By most rules of thumb, that level of debt for expected salary is pretty high. Another important consideration. Is whether you think she might take time out of her career when she has kids, leaving you to make the payments while she stays home. It is a bit of a gamble, since what she claims now might not be what happens when the rubber meets the road. I'd say this is a high risk play, but if it is true love that will last a lifetime, it would be worth it. If you are in the unlucky 50% of marriages that fail, it will be costly. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
StanMusial Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I went out with a girl who had $60,000 of student debt. Once. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
writergal Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) That's great to get some practical feedback from a debtor. I initially concurred entirely but then I considered the OP's concern about 'happening' and looked into it a bit and found that, in MA, it is *possible*, if the debtor were to become delinquent on a non-income sensitive loan due to a personal misfortune like job loss or, god-forbid, a health condition which precluded them working for a period of time or permanently, that marital assets could be attached via lawsuit to satisfy her otherwise separate debt. Additionally, statute apparently provides that marital income *can* be considered for repayment of an income-sensitive loan so, scary version, their marital income is pooled and she becomes disabled, his income could become attached through operation of law. Also, it's *possible* that in MA their marital income, if combined and if higher than her single income (which is probable), can affect the payment amount. They may have to crunch the numbers on their legal filing statuses with the IRS. That's why I suggested legal counsel. That kind of stuff is worth a look by one of those professionals who may have leveraged their own career with a student loan. Wouldn't life be simpler if money was eliminated? I know, no way to know who 'won'. Carhill as much as I respect you, you have it wrong. The repayment options are not varied by state or by marriage. The repayment options for student loans follow strict federal guidelines. There is no gray area and there is no need for a lawyer for the OP and his girlfriend. All she has to do is follow the federal guidelines and negotiate with her loan servicer based on her financial status (employed, not employed). I think it's wrong for people to misrepresent student loan repayment when they don't even know what they're talking about. All the OP and his girlfriend need to do is call up her loan servicer - Great Lakes is a common one - and go over the repayment options based on her income salary and whether or not she wants to consolidate her loans, do an income based repayment, defer them for unemployment reasons, etc. Repay Your Loans | Federal Student Aid Edited March 3, 2014 by writergal Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Do your research to make sure you don't do anything to assume any responsibility for the debt, if it's that important to you. It may be wise to do so, but at the same time you be asking yourself if you're willing to share in the fruits of the debt, specifically her paychecks. That could very well be an impending evil also of going down the path of total division at their age. To me..if he makes sure either by a prenup or postnup that he isn't going to pay for her debt then she may very well say that he isn't due to share in the fruits of her labor and the relationship may fail before it even had a chance to grow. In the end.. it is her risk, she took out the loans but a risk that he will eventually and hopefully benefit from as well as they get older so how much rocking of that boat he does can be a fine line to draw... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I went out with a girl who had $60,000 of student debt. Once. My first wife had almost 6 figure CC debt before I married her and more in company debt that was tied to me... It did drag the relationship down, didn't kill it but hurt it, the loans from my pocket to her company because of her spending problem was something we had to deal with in the marriage. My exwife had a spending issue that was magnified by her emotional issues and is not what the OP is dealing with. In the end, I was able to deduct my loss of the loans after the divorce for over 10 years on my taxes each year to offset gains... The carryover just ran out about a year ago .. the cool thing about having legal advice and loaning money to a corporation. Link to post Share on other sites
writergal Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I'll say it again, for clarification the only credible resource that the OP and his girlfriend should be concerned with is the Federal Student Aid website. Know who your loan servicer is, call them up, look up your loan amount online with your student PIN number, apply for the loan repayment plan that matches your financial status right now, and if the income changes, then you change your repayment plan. It's just that simple. It's clear from this thread that most people here don't currently have student loans and are giving the OP a lot of bad financial advice. Please stop doing that! A prenup isn't necessary for Pete sake. Neither is a lawyer. All the OP's girlfriend has to do is call up her loan servicer and change her repayment plan: if she gets unemployed, if her income level drops, if she has children and works part-time, etc, etc. You all need to relax. Student Loan debt is quite manageable and does not mean that a person isn't worth dating/marrying because they have debt. Debt is debt. You either follow steps to manage it, or you don't make payments or make arrangements when your financial circumstances change and then you get into big trouble. Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I think you are smart to be concerned and you should make an informed decision before getting serious about getting married. You should do your own research, but here are some tidbits I found with a quick search: according to the BLS, the average salary (not average starting salary) of a masters educated speech pathologist is just under $70k/year (2012). By most rules of thumb, that level of debt for expected salary is pretty high. Another important consideration. Is whether you think she might take time out of her career when she has kids, leaving you to make the payments while she stays home. It is a bit of a gamble, since what she claims now might not be what happens when the rubber meets the road. I'd say this is a high risk play, but if it is true love that will last a lifetime, it would be worth it. If you are in the unlucky 50% of marriages that fail, it will be costly. This would be my main concern. If she plans to work for the rest of her life then fine, no problem. However if later on she decides to stay home with kids you're screwed. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I think it's wrong for people to misrepresent student loan repayment when they don't even know what they're talking about. With due respect, we're speaking to the effects of a marriage on the legal aspect of the debt. State law indeed controls in debt situations relevant to marriage. The MA lawyers who provided the information, which I'll be happy to link to, barring commercial advertising limitations, probably know more about the laws of their state than both yourself and I, hence *again* why I suggested the OP contact legal counsel in his state to determine his potential exposure if it is of concern. I'm flabbergasted at the inflammatory tone here. Work the ****ing problem! Link to post Share on other sites
writergal Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 This would be my main concern. If she plans to work for the rest of her life then fine, no problem. However if later on she decides to stay home with kids you're screwed. No he isn't screwed if she has children. All they have to do is call up her loan reservicer to report her income change and defer it until she has income again. Like I said OP, the only credible resource you need to go to for student loan repayment advice is the Federal Student Aid government website. If you want to marry your girlfriend and have children, then hire a financial planner who will forecast your finances. Get an accountant. But for god sake, print out her student loan information and call up her loan reservicer to find out what the options are for family planning. It's all there on the website. Link to post Share on other sites
writergal Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 With due respect, we're speaking to the effects of a marriage on the legal aspect of the debt. State law indeed controls in debt situations relevant to marriage. The MA lawyers who provided the information, which I'll be happy to link to, barring commercial advertising limitations, probably know more about the laws of their state than both yourself and I, hence *again* why I suggested the OP contact legal counsel in his state to determine his potential exposure if it is of concern. I'm flabbergasted at the inflammatory tone here. Work the ****ing problem! No Carhill. With all due respect, state law has NOTHING to do with student loan repayment. You must follow federal guidelines if you are a student who owes student loans. I think you're giving serious misinformation about something you know nothing about, as many are here. Right here is a PDF for married borrowers. http://studentaid.ed.gov/sites/default/files/income-based-repayment.pdf Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 No he isn't screwed if she has children. All they have to do is call up her loan reservicer to report her income change and defer it until she has income again. Suppose she, like alot of mothers, does not want to go back to work but be a SAHM? He's screwed. Link to post Share on other sites
writergal Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 From that PDF: http://studentaid.ed.gov/sites/default/files/income-based-repayment.pdf Income Based Repayment for married student loan debtors. "If you are married and you and your spouse files a joint federal tax return, and if your spouse also has IBR-eligible loans, your spouse’s eligible loan debt is taken into account when determining whether you are eligible for IBR. In this case, the required monthly payment amount under a 10-year standard repayment plan is determined based on the combined amount of your IBR-eligible loans and your spouse’s IBR-eligible loans, using the greater of the amount owed when the loans initially entered repayment or the amount owed at the time you or your spouse request IBR. If the combined monthly amount you and your spouse would be required to pay under IBR is lower than the combined monthly amount you and your spouse would pay under a 10-year standard repayment plan, you and your spouse are eligible for IBR." Link to post Share on other sites
writergal Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Suppose she, like alot of mothers, does not want to go back to work but be a SAHM? He's screwed. Stillafool he's not screwed. The OP has options financially. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I never said state law had anything to do with repayment plans/repayment amounts/repayment options. State law has to do with the debt, the legal contract indebting the student not the repayment. Ask your lawyer to explain the differences. I've dealt with this stuff, with competent legal counsel, in court. The OP can independently verify or refute any information I have, in your opinion, provided in error. OP, please accept my sincere apologies here. I should have stopped long ago as this sidebar is detracting from your honest assessment of your relationship. I hope the arguments presented have given you some food for thought. Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 No Carhill. With all due respect, state law has NOTHING to do with student loan repayment. You must follow federal guidelines if you are a student who owes student loans. I think you're giving serious misinformation about something you know nothing about, as many are here. I'm a lawyer, so I'm not completely talking out of my ass, and I would think that state law has quite a bit to do with how debt is treated in a marriage. This article seems to back me up: Are Student Loans Incurred During The Marriage Considered Marital Debt? - Forbes Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 so you are a sucker... and telling the OP to be a sucker too 100k student loan debt in foreign language isnt far off from CC debt on the lack of intelligence skill awesome advice... Id rather be alone then go through the stupid things people on these forums do to not be alone No, I wasn't a sucker and I'm not telling the OP to be one. I had legal advice that helped me... Telling the OP to possibly ruin his budding marriage or relationship by pulling it down with a bitter pill of mistrust is just not the right thing to do...IMO Nobody is telling him to not have his ducks in a row.. you can't go into a relationship like you are the only one in it, there is 2 parties to every relationship and they all have their own set of desires and needs. Link to post Share on other sites
writergal Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I never said state law had anything to do with repayment plans/repayment amounts/repayment options. State law has to do with the debt, the legal contract indebting the student not the repayment. Ask your lawyer to explain the differences. I've dealt with this stuff, with competent legal counsel, in court. The OP can independently verify or refute any information I have, in your opinion, provided in error. OP, please accept my sincere apologies here. I should have stopped long ago as this sidebar is detracting from your honest assessment of your relationship. I hope the arguments presented have given you some food for thought. Carhill, you did say that actually but that's beside the point. Many posters in this thread are misguiding the OP with misinformation and it's unfortunate. State laws have absolutely nothing to do with student loan debt. If they did, students could file a chapter 7 bankruptcy and include their student loans as debt to be discharged. And no, state law has nothing to do with the student's loans which are FEDERAL. Any state loan is a private loan, but the Dept of Education has consolidated ALL STATE PRIVATE LOANS to federal now. This all changed in 2011. OP, what you and your girlfriend need to do is call up her loan servicer and discuss repayment options IF/WHEN you decide to combine your income as a married couple. Until then, her debt is her debt, not yours. Link to post Share on other sites
writergal Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I'm a lawyer, so I'm not completely talking out of my ass, and I would think that state law has quite a bit to do with how debt is treated in a marriage. This article seems to back me up: Are Student Loans Incurred During The Marriage Considered Marital Debt? - Forbes I read the article but it doesn't address the fact that state loans which are private have been consolidated with federal student loans now. implies that states have different guidelines. Well, student loan debt is strictly the debt of the student who incurred it. The state cannot interfere and force a spouse to pay off their spouse's student loan debt while married. As my PDF link from the Federal Student Aid gov't website explains, the amount of a loan repayment for a married debtor is based on their income and their spouse's income, esp. if their spouse still has student loans to repay. It's about income based repayment. Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Stillafool he's not screwed. The OP has options financially. What options? If so, why is he worrying about it? Link to post Share on other sites
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