gaius Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Mercer Quality of Living Survey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I'm not denying that America is a better option than many third world countries out there; some of my friends emigrated to America, too. But in most cases, if they had other options, America would not be on the top of their list. Your own link says that 'Potential migrants who say they would like to move to the U.S. are most likely to come from populous countries such as China (22 million), Nigeria (15 million), India (10 million), Bangladesh (8 million), or Brazil (7 million).' Yes, I would definitely agree that the US beats all those countries hands down... They didn't ask them what options they had, they asked them where they would like to go if they could go anywhere. And by far they picked America. Which is the exact opposite of what you're saying. I think Europe has this snotty attitude that because they've sold their relevance away for entitlements everyone loves and respects them the most, but it's not true at all. The UK only has 60 something million people and 3 want to move to the US, which is about 5% of their entire population. I'd wager less than 5% of people in the US want to move to the UK. And I'm sure the same holds true for all European countries. Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 They didn't ask them what options they had, they asked them where they would like to go if they could go anywhere. And by far they picked America. Which is the exact opposite of what you're saying. I think Europe has this snotty attitude that because they've sold their relevance away for entitlements everyone loves and respects them the most, but it's not true at all. The UK only has 60 something million people and 3 want to move to the US, which is about 5% of their entire population. I'd wager less than 5% of people in the US want to move to the UK. And I'm sure the same holds true for all European countries. You really can't extrapolate numbers so literally from a biased site, especially one so US-focused (it doesn't have data for any other country's immigration). And especially not to say that, "in reality America is the best country to live in", because numerous other reputable global surveys completely disagree with that (Mercer, Monocle, etc). Of course, I'm probably at fault too; I was exaggerating in a tongue in cheek manner. I'm sure there are some non-Americans who believe the same as you do. But many, many don't. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
gaius Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 And Els, of course cities filled with almost nothing but white people are going to rank high on a "quality of life" study. But we don't have any of those! Those studies take so few variables into account they're basically worthless. Unless you're looking for some way to stick a finger in the eye of the US. Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 And Els, of course cities filled with almost nothing but white people are going to rank high on a "quality of life" study. But we don't have any of those! Those studies take so few variables into account they're basically worthless. Unless you're looking for some way to stick a finger in the eye of the US. Many multinational companies utilize Mercer's rankings in considering expatriate compensation. On the other hand, 'Gallup' is a much less reputable source. Also, some of the cities that rank higher on the list than American cities have a much lower white population than America, so I'm not sure where that came from...? How is it relevant, anyway? Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 (Also, we probably should continue this in Leigh's USA rant thread, rather than walking all over the OP's ) Link to post Share on other sites
StanMusial Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 And Els, of course cities filled with almost nothing but white people are going to rank high on a "quality of life" study. But we don't have any of those! Those studies take so few variables into account they're basically worthless. Unless you're looking for some way to stick a finger in the eye of the US. People always hate the guy at the top. I have met rednecks walking around in orange aprons at the Home Depot in Atlanta, GA who are multi millionaires. No college education. Some of the best software developers I know never went to college. They earn good money but admittedly will be unable to advance up the corporate ladder with a few exceptions. They all earn more than the bureaucrat with advanced degrees, and deservedly so. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 And how many college graduates are actually making 100,000 A year? Right now, petroleum engineers. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I am admittedly well off, but 100K doesnt seem like a lot...When I got out of college with an undergraduate degree in 1988, I wanted to continue on to be a surgeon..I was told, at that time, that it would have cost me 250K to get to that point..Seemed like a mountain of money at that time...One of my biggest regrets is not doing it...I would have it all paid off by the ripe old age 30..Whoop de doo.. Oh well.. Anyway, a young person, who was diligent could pay off that type of debt pretty easily...Takes sacrifice and discipline..And one other thing...Debt isnt evil..Its necessary...Unless you are born of priviliege you are going to have to carry debt at times in your life...Nothing wrong with it..Many of the people that refuse to take on debt usually wind up never getting out of their own little safe world.. YMMV TFY Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 The UK only has 60 something million people and 3 want to move to the US, which is about 5% of their entire population. Probably immigrants who want to move further. I'd wager less than 5% of people in the US want to move to the UK. And I'm sure the same holds true for all European countries. That's because Americans don't even know where Europe is on the map Most of you don't even own a passport, correct? It's a joke amongst us, Europeans I'm sorry. Seriously though, people will consider California and the East Coast like Boston or New York but nothing in between. Link to post Share on other sites
soccerrprp Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I agree with a lot of people here. It's not BAD debt per se. She's young, has great income potential, so as long as she is going to use that expensive degree to payoff the debt and bring in much more additional income, not a deal breaker. I'm dating a doctor who's monthly loan repayment is the size of a mortgage, but she makes a lot more on top of that. I'm debt-free. So, in short, livable, manageable debt. Link to post Share on other sites
gaius Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 (Also, we probably should continue this in Leigh's USA rant thread, rather than walking all over the OP's ) I'll head there and answer you, Stan and Emilia. Hopefully Leigh won't mind, after all she started this sub conversation. Hope you figure out how to deal with your girlfriends debt issues jake. And if you can handle her making more money than you or not. Link to post Share on other sites
callingyouuu Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I'm in a profession where the average debt to get your terminal degree at some schools is +$200k, followed by 3-7 years of training at what is effectively minimum wage before you can start your real job. Ouch. From my perspective, if she's really going to be making $200-$250 an hour right out of graduation, $100k in debt is nothing. Link to post Share on other sites
Author jakelongot Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Thought I should chime back in here... In no way was she hiding the debt from me. 3 out of the 4 years we've been dating, she has been in graduate school. I knew there was going to be debt. The 100k number was more than she or I was expecting to see, but it didn't really blow either of us away. She has been anticipating having loans to pay back for a while now. 4 years of college and 3 years of grad school...after a 6 month deferment payments have just begun. She received her SLP degree from a top 5 rated school in the country. Currently she is working in a school setting (due to timing of her graduation and subsequent job availability) until June with a second job on the side that bring in an additional $700/mo on the side. When that finishes up she plans to work in the medical field. After a few years of experience, she would like to open a private practice. If anyone is familiar with what an SLP makes in private practice, you'll know the $200-$250/hr number I threw out there is very much in line with what she can expect. We are exploring options and plan on consolidating the loans (all federal) and plan to leverage her relatively low current salary into best possible repayment terms. There are some extremely favorable and flexible options with student loans which are considered by most to be good debt. If she were a history major that bounced around to 3 or 4 schools deciding what she wanted to do and graduated with simply a liberal arts degree after racking up $100k in loans this would all be a different story, but that is clearly not the case here. This thread is really just a momentary freak out and I never truly considered dumping her over the debt, but it was nice to get some perspective out there. Plus a sensational title like "100k in debt..." was sure to solicit more responses that something more subtle. Anyway, great thoughts and responses from everyone. I definitely learned a little and the perspective gained is invaluable (never thought I would say that about this board). Thank you all again! Link to post Share on other sites
oldshirt Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I haven't read all the other posts so excuse me if this has already been said. 100k is a big number but if she is a credential professional in a high paying profession and she has a solid financial plan and budget in place and she is fundamentally responsible in handling debt and finances than this may be no biggie. It's all context. If she is fundamentally responsible and budgets well and has financial disciple and smarts and she is now making close to 100k a year with potential for that to rise steadily over the years, then it's really a nonissue. If she's a fruitloop that bounces around racking up bad debt and can't make a trip to the mall without maxing out one credit card so she opens up another and now she has finally graduated with a general liberal arts or sociology or history degree or something and her first job out of school is an administrative assistant or waiting tables or some then you should be very very very concerned. Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Long story short my g/f and I have been dating for just about 4 years. There is talk of marriage and we are starting to plan our lives together. Yesterday however I just found out she has $100k in student loan debt! She just graduated in August. She is employed and working in a good field with huge earning potential (especially down the line when she can go into private practice), but that number really scared me. She didn't seem too concerned as she was expecting a large number, even though she does admit it was higher than she expected. It is worth noting that this is simply 4 years of college and 2 1/2 years of grad school so it is not like she was making poor education decisions. I love her and she is a very capable person. It is student loan debt and not credit card debt or anything. That being said, the number really freaked me out. I am less than 2 years from finishing paying up my loans myself. Would something like this make you think twice about marrying this person? Dealbreaker? I don't want to sound shallow and I do truly love this person, but it certainly makes me nervous if god forbid something ever happened to her and I would inherit her debt...i've always been very careful about managing mine. Her student loan payment is like a mortgage payment every month! Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! It's somewhat subjective. It depends on the field. If she has been in graduate school, she can apply for income-based repayment. If she is going to work in the public sector, she can apply for forgiveness. For example, if she works for a public university (i.e. PhD, MD, etc.), her loans can be forgiven in 10 years max. Add on two years of income-based repayment (income based on grad student income) and it becomes less of a burden. Link to post Share on other sites
Leigh 87 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I'll head there and answer you, Stan and Emilia. Hopefully Leigh won't mind, after all she started this sub conversation. Hope you figure out how to deal with your girlfriends debt issues jake. And if you can handle her making more money than you or not. I Just hate your health care system and think it is bizarre to put students in so much debt. I realty enjoyed visiting it as a country but found the news on TV was all about AMERICA and on average, people there are far more centred around the US where as people in other counties I have visited tend to take more of an interest in the rest of the world. I am not thrilled with my ... soon to be 50 K student debt. Even 50 K seems excessive. But hey, that is the choice you make if you want to be a professional. It IS worth it, just a little too much debt in my opinion (100K) Link to post Share on other sites
pickflicker Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Sorry, Gaius, but this is something that only Americans believe, not anyone else in the world. Typical American myopia 1 Link to post Share on other sites
RonaldS Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 And how many college graduates are actually making 100,000 A year? Alot of these people in massive debt have garbage degrees that are pretty much worthless. Let's be real It's funny you bring up target for ten dollars an hr because that's where many people with degrees are working now along with places like Starbucks To answer your first question, who knows? It's a little bit relative. Borrowing limits on bachelor degrees in the US is $50k, so nobody with some worthless liberal arts degree is going to be carrying more than that. To hit the $100k figure, you've probably got your masters, if not PhD. Of course, not all masters and PhDs are in fields that pay off, but most are. I live in Chicago, and to be honest, most people I know are making $100k/yr all the way up to $1mil/yr. While it can't be said with certainty that they wouldn't be earning in that range w/o advanced degrees, the fact of the matter is that they have them, they borrowed to get them, and they were able to pay off that debt very quickly because their earnings allowed it. I do know a couple of academics who spent a lot of time and money to get PhDs and are college profs that don't make a ton of money. But at the same time, they're tenured, so they essentially have a job for life. Overall, it's a good investment. As to people working at Target and Starbucks even though they have degrees, that speaks as much to the professional qualities they bring to the table and general expectations in life as it does the value of the areas they pursued degrees in. I know a guy with an MBA who works at Starbucks...essentially because he could not get out of his own way and just couldn't translate his academic success into professional success. As to the OP's girl...it sounds like she has made the right moves in terms of positioning herself for profitable professional success , and in 10 years, it will be like that $100k never happened. Link to post Share on other sites
ponchsox Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 If she had excessive cc debt or was a free spender on top of the cc debt, that would be the deal breaker for me. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts