My OW meltdowns

[spookysonata]

That was the only question posed. "If he wants it to be someone else?" Is not a question, just a poorly punctuated statement.

 

 

 

No. I'd be happy for anyone to see how much we loved each other. There is nothing in our communications that I am ashamed or embarrassed about.

 

Oh, so it's cool if he gets another OW? Because that was my question.

[eleanorrigby]

Well this thread has made me decide to find out if there is a real life,

"this message will self destruct" option out there.

 

smh so hard I'm giving myself whiplash.

[HermioneG]

Nobody gets M deciding someone else should be their primary partner. But after decades of neglect and abuse, it's no surprise if they fall in love with someone who treats them decently. And, if they are noble to D immediately, those two Rs may overlap - the vestigial M and the growing love R.

 

If you find that logic flawed, you may want to spend some more time around real people, because that is how many real people think.

 

I agree many real people think that way.

 

Many real people who hurt other people and seem not to understand that. Unfortunately, there are many people out there that make such decisions.

 

But thankfully, not the majority.

[SolG]

If there was another DDay, the A was over and his W demanded full access to all our email traffic; I actually wouldn't have a problem with MM giving it all to his W at all. There is nobody in this scenario that is mean or crazy enough to publish it further or use it with ill intent. I'm not sure what else should worry me :-/

 

I think what this, and cocorico's example share to a certain extent is that the correspondence being examined pertains to a R that is for all intents and purposes over. It is a retrospective for the BS in the event of an ended A. And for cocorico I get the sense that the MM/BS real relationship was over and she was monitoring the mundane mopup. I don't see anything wrong with either of these cases.

 

Where my accessing the BS' emails is different is that their M is still the legitimate primary relationship; and that relationship is ongoing. And the W does not know of the A as it stands;nor (obviously) of my access to what she writes to MM. And their M has been in trouble for a long time; and it shows. I am not a primary spouse/partner exercising normal transparency (as I believe is the case in the para above); I'm a relationship voyeur.

 

So in the same vein, yes, I would be pissed if my MM gave his W access to my ongoing emails while we were still together and did not let me know. Effectively permitting his W the voyeuristic insight I am now privy to.

 

I know I'm wrong. And I've stopped. But, if I were in cocorico's shoes I would do the same thing she did, and feel justified in doing so, to assist in transition. Our contexts are vastly different IMO.

 

One thing I violently agree with cocorico on--and it's probably a topic for a whole new thread--is that marriage doesn't automatically dictate a primary relationship. Hell, I'm married; I refer to my H as xH because besides not being divorced, we do not have any marital-type tie. In my eyes he is not my H and he does not consider me his W, and we are certainly not in a 'primary' relationship. I have many dear friends in long-term de facto relationships that have kids, joint assets and lives... they are far more stable than a lot of the legally married couples I know.

 

And this is not to mention all the LGBTIQ folk who can't marry (in a lot of places), but still have wonderful long-term committed relationships.

 

It is not marriage or lack thereof that dictates a relationship's nature or status, the participant's do.

Edited March 9, 2014 by SolG
Grammar, syntax and punctuation

[spookysonata]

My question stands: if your marriage isn't your "primary relationship", then what's the freaking point of being married? What's the point of cheating? Get a freakin divorce, or better yet don't get married at all if you don't take it seriously.

[HermioneG]

My question stands: if your marriage isn't your "primary relationship", then what's the freaking point of being married? What's the point of cheating? Get a freakin divorce, or better yet don't get married at all if you don't take it seriously.

 

A to the men.

 

I cannot grasp thinking otherwise. Fur real.

[Got it]

My question stands: if your marriage isn't your "primary relationship", then what's the freaking point of being married? What's the point of cheating? Get a freakin divorce, or better yet don't get married at all if you don't take it seriously.

 

Spooky, you do understand that there is some timing that comes into play, correct? Now whether or not you agree with it is something else but usually when the AP becomes the primary partner is when the MP is transitioning out of their marriage. But this is not something that always happens within days.

 

I think your opinion of people in affairs is WELL received and is becoming redundant especially for someone so new here. But, speaking from experience, that is how our relationship played out as did a few others here without any (so far) negative impacts on their immediate relationship.

 

And to answer the questions personally, if I found out my husband had an affair and also read my correspondence with him, to me the fatal blow has already been leveraged, whether or not your twisted the knife to the left or the right really seems to be all that important. I would assume, especially with all I know now, that every violation that could occur has because what a shallow relief to be left with of "at least he didn't do x".

 

About why marrying. My marriage was primary and then it was limbo/not primary. My affair started and the affair was primary. I left my marriage about a month later. For my MM/husband, his marriage was primary and then it became not primary for him when he found out about her affair. Our affair started and it was primary until he separated a year later.

[HermioneG]

Oh dear, so terribly sorry to be a redundant noob. Didn't mean to offend your delicate sensibilities. A thousand thousand pardons.

 

Yeah....no. If you don't take marriage as a serious commitment, as unbreakable vows that you mean to uphold every day for the rest of your life-- not just until someone better comes along--why BOTHER? Really, it is just the dress and the party? Why not just date whoever you want for the rest of your life? Are you picking up what I'm putting down here?

 

I am picking it up!

 

I agree completely. I don't understand. I suspect that is a good thing.

 

I just read Got It's last post to my spouse, and he had the same thought as I did. How could it have been primary if he remained married to someone else for a year? Seems like a rewriting of history to justify. Which is okay, I guess. But hardly something that people are going to accept as logical.

[SolG]

Hi spooky :-) I'd be interested to read your story if you ever decide to share here at LS.

 

I don't think anyone is trying to invalidate your views on marriage. Indeed, I think your views are probably the predominate, traditional heteronormative perspective on the institution. However, this does not mean that others' differing views on what marriage means to them and their relationships are not also valid for them.

 

I personally believe that formal marriage is just one way of expressing and recognising a pre-existing strong relationship commitment. It's the relationship commitment itself that is the important component; and how that is continually practiced and expressed that makes the reality of the relationship. Formal marriage may, or may not, form a part of that expression. Likewise, I don't believe a formal marriage is required to make vows, have children, or to express a dedication to monogamy or forever.

 

In this sense I also don't believe that marriage is a prerequisite to an A; any extra relationship activity outside of a committed relationship is an A and just as much a betrayal and damaging as if there were a marriage.

 

To me and my xH, we did very seriously make those commitments to each other. To us the 'formal' component was more a concession to everyone else's expectations rather than something we needed or even wanted to do. We ultimately ended up unhappy with our R, but stuck it out until our daughter left for college. We amicably separated within about a month of her leaving. And full legal settlement followed not too long after.

 

Our M--despite our best efforts, and like approx 50 per cent of them--ended. Even now many years later we're not divorced because, frankly, just as we didn't really need a formal M to establish to us that we were in a committed relationship, neither do we need a D to establish that we're not. We've already done that through our conduct. Why bother with more expense and paperwork? We don't see the point.

 

Maybe one day he'll decide to remarry and ask for a D. And if he does I'll gladly file jointly with him.

 

Not trying to change anyone's views; just adding a differing perspective.

[cocorico]

Most of the real people I know find divorce preferable to wasting away in a neglectful, abusive marriage for decades. See, because then when the kindly, loving saint in shining armour rides up to the rescue, they are free to actually be in a relationship with them!

 

Most of the people I know - who are all real - do not hang about waiting for "kindly, loving saints in shining armour" to "rescue" them. They are too busy living their lives to want or need rescue.

 

Oh, so it's cool if he gets another OW? Because that was my question.

 

Please quote the post in which you asked that question because I do not see it in any of your previous posts.

[cocorico]

I am picking it up!

 

I agree completely. I don't understand. I suspect that is a good thing.

 

I just read Got It's last post to my spouse, and he had the same thought as I did. How could it have been primary if he remained married to someone else for a year? Seems like a rewriting of history to justify. Which is okay, I guess. But hardly something that people are going to accept as logical.

 

I know of nowhere in the universe where a marriage certificate spontaneously combusts when a MP falls in love with someone new. In all places that I know of, it takes time for the MP to appoint lawyers, file for D, make custody arrangements, separate finances, sell houses and shared assets, etc - quite aside from any emotional transitioning required. I'm sure f instantaneous D was available many people would snap it up, but I've yet to see it on offer.

 

In some countries, like the UK, D can take up to 5 years. And, if parents decide to wait until kids leave home / start high school / reach whatever milestone they consider appropriate to introduce D, that can add additional years.

 

So the length of transition for vestigial M to new primary R can vary according to circumstance.

[rumbleseat]

OP,

It sounds as if you had wanted access to all their correspondence because you were looking for reassurance about your relationship and how he felt about you. You also wanted information about his M , and whether or not he was lying to you.

 

The reality is that these emails, texts, etc. are simply small snapshots of his life with her you are basically seeing what he allows you to see. How do you know he is really showing all of it to you?

 

You also indicate that on some level, you do feel somewhat squeamish about him sharing the private thoughts of his w with you. Why do you think that is? Seems your gut is telling you something here that you should listen to.

 

Perhaps the very fact that he shares those with you should tell you more about him than the content does. Even you say that he is being very disrespectful to his w in sharing them. He is doing all of his behind her back, what does that tell you about him?

 

It also seems that you do not trust him at all. What will it take for this trust to form? Will it ever?

 

The morality of him sharing these ( and you reading them) isn't something to shrugged off lightly. It tells you a lot about him, but what it tells you is very hard to face, as you care deeply for him and it's hard to see the negatives in someone we love. The question becomes how much are you willing to lower your standards about what you will accept from him ( and from yourself as well) I the name of that love? Where will you choose to draw the line?

[rumbleseat]

 

I see nothing at all wrong with him giving you full,access to his stuff if that is what you want and he agrees. I was my fMM's primary R during the A and I also had full access. In fact, during the separation and D all his emails from the BW would forward to me and I would screen them and forward on the relevant bits and delete the rest. How couples choose to organise their communication and information flow in their R is for them to decide.

 

Wow. This guy sure seems to like having the women in his life control him. You screened his email? Who did he think you are , his mommy? One would think that a big boy grown up man could sort his own email.

[spookysonata]

 

 

 

Please quote the post in which you asked that question because I do not see it in any of your previous posts.

 

Errrr....you quoted it yourself. "So it's cool with you if he gets another OW?"

 

So is it?

[SolG]

Well this thread has made me decide to find out if there is a real life,

"this message will self destruct" option out there.

 

Just as a techie aside, this is actually doable. I've had emails pertaining to commercially sensitive material that link to a url that can only be viewed once. After that single viewing, the url becomes inaccessible. Such urls can also be set to stop access after a set period of time as opposed to on viewing. Not that I'm advocating this as a routine way to correspond... but just pointing out for curiosity's sake that it can be done.

 

Rumbleseat, thank you for your insightful post. I will think on it and perhaps respond to your points later.

 

As for the rest.. it is obvious in light of the various views presented here that there are multiple perceptions possible about when a R or M or even A is actually 'over'. And that it is possible for those to vary even in the one A/M context from party to party; an MM, BS and OW could all have very different views and realities about the status of the various Rs they are entwined in. The best that can be expected is that they somehow, eventually all arrive at a common world view of where they all stand with respect to each other.

 

The potential for dissonance is high. And I believe this drives my insecurity in part.

 

On the positive side; one week e-stalking free here! :-D

[gettingstronger]

On the positive side; one week e-stalking free here! :-D

 

 

Yeah! They say it takes two weeks to form a habit-so I am hoping this continues and you can stay away from that part-not only is it unfair to her but its harmful to you-

 

Are you still feeling insecure- whats going on in your head right now?

[Got it]

OP,

It sounds as if you had wanted access to all their correspondence because you were looking for reassurance about your relationship and how he felt about you. You also wanted information about his M , and whether or not he was lying to you.

 

The reality is that these emails, texts, etc. are simply small snapshots of his life with her you are basically seeing what he allows you to see. How do you know he is really showing all of it to you?

 

You also indicate that on some level, you do feel somewhat squeamish about him sharing the private thoughts of his w with you. Why do you think that is? Seems your gut is telling you something here that you should listen to.

 

Perhaps the very fact that he shares those with you should tell you more about him than the content does. Even you say that he is being very disrespectful to his w in sharing them. He is doing all of his behind her back, what does that tell you about him?

 

It also seems that you do not trust him at all. What will it take for this trust to form? Will it ever?

 

The morality of him sharing these ( and you reading them) isn't something to shrugged off lightly. It tells you a lot about him, but what it tells you is very hard to face, as you care deeply for him and it's hard to see the negatives in someone we love. The question becomes how much are you willing to lower your standards about what you will accept from him ( and from yourself as well) I the name of that love? Where will you choose to draw the line?

 

I think some very key questions to ask yourself Sol. I think rumbleseat puts a very good spin on the questions and some core ones that need to be answered to set easy with you.

[SolG]

OP,

It sounds as if you had wanted access to all their correspondence because you were looking for reassurance about your relationship and how he felt about you. You also wanted information about his M , and whether or not he was lying to you.

 

Yes, this is so.

 

The reality is that these emails, texts, etc. are simply small snapshots of his life with her you are basically seeing what he allows you to see. How do you know he is really showing all of it to you?

 

I do realise this could be the case. However, there are around eight years worth of emails in his account. It would be difficult to sanitise anyway; his W also has full access to the account and even uses it occasionally to send from. I'm sure she would notice if there was anything of import missing.

 

You also indicate that on some level, you do feel somewhat squeamish about him sharing the private thoughts of his w with you. Why do you think that is? Seems your gut is telling you something here that you should listen to.

 

I actually feel more squeamish about the fact that I read them, as opposed to him sharing access. Yes, what he did is unethical, but what I did was worse in my opinion.

 

Perhaps the very fact that he shares those with you should tell you more about him than the content does. Even you say that he is being very disrespectful to his w in sharing them. He is doing all of his behind her back, what does that tell you about him?

 

Was the action disrespectful? Yes. Do I think he truly disrespects his W? No. That may sound completely counterintuitive, particularly in the context of him also having an A. But sometimes good people do bad things.

It also seems that you do not trust him at all. What will it take for this trust to form? Will it ever?

 

I actually do trust him. Probably right now more than ever before. But this doesn't stop me being insecure, nosy and scatty.

 

The morality of him sharing these ( and you reading them) isn't something to shrugged off lightly. It tells you a lot about him, but what it tells you is very hard to face, as you care deeply for him and it's hard to see the negatives in someone we love. The question becomes how much are you willing to lower your standards about what you will accept from him ( and from yourself as well) I the name of that love? Where will you choose to draw the line?

 

There is absolutely no getting around the immorality of the circumstance. We've talked about this together a bit now. This was a dark chapter, and we've called it quits.

 

But, there is also another element to this that we have since discussed. He would never have given me access to this history if he hadn't spent the vast majority of his time with me over the preceding three years and come to know me and trust me implicitly. He wouldn't have given me access to not just emails between he and his W, but also his parents and siblings, friends, records of financial dealings, etc, etc, etc, over many years if this weren't the case. He knows me and knows I would never use any of it.

 

In the same way he has brought me old report cards and photos, letters to/from his parents, etc, this email account is also an extension of that. It is part of his history.

 

While the behaviour in and of itself as it pertains to that content relating to his W is clearly abhorrent. The process has actually brought us closer together.

 

What does it tell me about him? Mostly, that he's human and in a sucky situation and he made a mistake. As did I. Not the first or the last or the smallest or the biggest. As are full of ethical dilemmas, I hope we go on to make better choices.

 

Rumbleseat and gettingstronger, I read the spinoff thread about private correspondence. Thank you both for exercising the restraint and kindness to post here in the spirit of support.

 

Where am I in my head right now? I'm actually feeling much more at peace at the moment. The A is still there, I still feel the insecurity and dread. But it's pretty quiet right now. Meltdown free for at least a little while I'd say :-)

 

I'm also now at peace with this email episode. It is what it is and it's done. It certainly can't be undone. The best we can do is learn from it.

 

I lifted a PB on bench press with my personal trainer yesterday. And my gorgeous daughter and I had gourmet pizza for dinner.

 

I fly out soon to spend a night with MM, then on to see my wonderful family for the weekend.

 

Life is not all bad :-)

 

Thanks everyone!

Edited March 12, 2014 by SolG

[gettingstronger]

I was hoping you were not offended by the spin off as I think your thread was more about how you feel than the action itself-I can be an advocate of a healthier you with out being an advocate of your current action-

 

I am glad you are finding some peace and that you have not allowed your emotions to get the best of you-I am hoping you gain the strength to do whats best for you in the long run-as a BS I have found that we are all better off if everyone involved can be in a good place-if one part of the triangle is off kilter it throws a wrench in everyones lives- I am a huge advocate of tomorrow- after dday I was a mess-I knew what I had to do, what I should do but that didn't mean I could do it-that takes time-

 

Congrads on your work out milestones- I am also a work out fiend and the small personal, physical victories in my life really help- stronger body, stronger mind-stronger me!