My OW meltdowns

[Got it]

Edit: It's kind of sad that you think you're owed transparency and deserve to make full informed decisions based on what you see of his actions, meanwhile his wife does apparently does not since you two are continuing to sneak behind her back and make life decisions (i.e. plans for moving out, divorce, etc.) for her without giving her the same options that you have. SMH. I'm glad at least you recognize how messed up that is. Hopefully everyone will soon be afforded the ability to make informed decisions for themselves.

 

But this isn't about the BS. This is about SolG and her MM. Yes it isn't fair to the BS but the whole affair is unfair to the BS. But SolG's relationship isn't about the BS, it is about the MM.

 

I understand how a BS may find this hard to read and the hypocrisy of it when they have been in the BS' shoes. But it really isn't about him/her.

 

Yes, I felt I was owed transparency, honesty, etc. because that was a requirement for my relationship with him. Yes I knew he wasn't doing so with her but that wasn't my focus or my priority. That is brutal honesty but how I felt. Their dynamic was their's, our's was our's.

[gettingstronger]

Yes, I felt I was owed transparency, honesty, etc. because that was a requirement for my relationship with him. Yes I knew he wasn't doing so with her but that wasn't my focus or my priority. That is brutal honesty but how I felt. Their dynamic was their's, our's was ours-

 

 

 

I can see that but do you think you could get honesty from him-I mean do you really think people are really that different- that someone that is so dishonest with the person they pledged their lives to, the ones they built a life with is really going to be honest with you-someone that easily accepts that they are a liar?

[Sub]

I think there's a disconnect between what someone feels they are owed and what they can realistically expect. You can feel you're owed honesty and transparency all you want, but in a circumstance like this, you can't really expect it IMO, based off of the MM's current deception of the person he married. And while this isn't about the BS, the hypocrisy we're talking about can't just be swept under the rug. The OW relinquishes the right to be surprised or even upset about a lack of transparency, when it's that lack of transparency with someone else that serves as a pillar of the relationship they have with the MM.

[Speakingofwhich]

Don't you think that just by the sheer fact that you are talking to the OW in this MM's affair that it is quite apparent he can go elsewhere than "just home"? I mean he detoured to SolG's house already.

 

 

I think the implication is that she is free to do as she pleases while he is stuck in his marriage-I don't agree-we are all free to make choices if we are willing to deal with the consequences-AND if we really want to make those choices- I tend to think that people in affairs that don't leave just don't want to leave-they want to stay married-they are not stuck- I mean really, how much harder can it be to leave than to live a lie-

 

While it's true we're all free to make choices an OW/OM can walk away from an A and begin dating others openly while a MM/MW can't. An MM/MW can get involved with another AP and basically be in the same convoluted position they were in with the previous AP. But, an OW/OM can walk away and get into an open R which is much more convenient and guilt free.

 

Of course, an MM/MW can do the same by first getting a divorce but that's most often a huge undertaking. Spoken as one who's been there done that (D). If a person hasn't been through a divorce (especially an acrimonious one) it's easy to say, "well, if he/she really loved you (OW/OM) they'd get a D and be with you."

 

I'd never get a divorce to be with someone I loved with all my heart. And I don't think that's a good test of whether or not someone loves you or prefers you over their spouse.

 

Divorce can be very rough. And life altering financially and relationally. It was for me, despite the court system. There are ways a parent can influence a child to keep them from the other parent. Been there, too. Had a wealthy spouse who bought off an adolescent and it was very painful for me. In time the child realized their mistake and came back to me but it was heart breaking when it happened.

 

So, men (or women) who don't leave because of the children are realistic. A bitter ex can subvert the best intentions of the court system.

 

There are people who are "stuck" in a bad or unfulfilling M unless they don't want to lose their children. I was fortunate in that I lost a child only for a couple of years and our relationship was restored. I've known others who've had a child estranged from them for longer because of a D.

 

Sorry if this is t/j.

[JenniferTucker]

This type of "transparent" deal is so incredibly hurtful to the third person who has no idea their communication is being viewed by an outside party to the existing couples marital dealings with each other. In my view this speaks of a lack of character and the lack of respect in my eyes would be devasting to the so called relationship. This also would apply to any third party privy to my communications with my partner without my consent be it ow/om/family members and so on. The breach of trust would shatter my trust of them. You don't need their communication to make informed decisions for your life. Your moral compass should guide you on this:)

[sweet_pea]

But this isn't about the BS. This is about SolG and her MM. Yes it isn't fair to the BS but the whole affair is unfair to the BS. But SolG's relationship isn't about the BS, it is about the MM.

 

I understand how a BS may find this hard to read and the hypocrisy of it when they have been in the BS' shoes. But it really isn't about him/her.

 

Yes, I felt I was owed transparency, honesty, etc. because that was a requirement for my relationship with him. Yes I knew he wasn't doing so with her but that wasn't my focus or my priority. That is brutal honesty but how I felt. Their dynamic was their's, our's was our's.

 

Didn't say it was about the BS, just like it isn't about you but thanks for the input.... I apologize for thread jacking SolG.

Edited March 5, 2014 by sweet_pea

[Got it]

I think there's a disconnect between what someone feels they are owed and what they can realistically expect. You can feel you're owed honesty and transparency all you want, but in a circumstance like this, you can't really expect it IMO, based off of the MM's current deception of the person he married. And while this isn't about the BS, the hypocrisy we're talking about can't just be swept under the rug. The OW relinquishes the right to be surprised or even upset about a lack of transparency, when it's that lack of transparency with someone else that serves as a pillar of the relationship they have with the MM.

 

Why? Why is it assumed that the same rules apply to each relationship one has? Why can't someone expect something regardless of the set up in another relationship?

 

Now saying whether or not it is realistic to expect that is one thing but making it a point blank that it can't happen is another.

 

Just because I deceived my ex husband did not mean I was deceiving or not truthful with my MM. My ex was not my primary focus at that point and so I did not have the loyalty to him. Granted I am not saying this is an absolute for everyone else but for myself, since I knew I was in an exit affair and planning to divorce the rules were not parallel.

 

Like any partnership, one can ask for different pieces in their agreement. Then you look to see if the other person agrees and abides and then you reassess.

[Got it]

Didn't say it was about the BS, just like it isn't about you but thanks for the input.... I apologize for thread jacking SolG.

 

It is in regards to "me" because I have been in a very similar situation as SolG was the same type of arrangement. So speaking from experience, in her shoes, I commented on the thread.

[Sub]

Now saying whether or not it is realistic to expect that is one thing but making it a point blank that it can't happen is another.

 

This is kind of my point. (Apologies if it was unclear.) But it relates to the "meltdown" aspect of the OP. If it's not realistic to expect it based off of history or the current dynamic, why the meltdown? Why not address the insatiable need to be this invasive instead of laying it all at the feet of the MM when he's not comfortable with how she reacts?

[nais]

I have this quandry. I've just had two weeks away with MM. Two wonderful weeks... well almost all wonderful.

 

Things seem to go along well... we plan and talk about exactly how we're going to deal with stuff and what's going on, etc, etc. Then BAM, something hits me. Like some particular email or wording in a text from his W. And I implode and MM cops it. He then responds with doubt about ME and our future. He says it makes him think that he is risking all for an uncertain future when what I am really doing is expressing understandable (from my perspective) hurt and anger. Then when he's in the throes of doubt, he feeds my insecurity even more, which makes me more likely to implode... again... and so on it goes :-(

Then we cry and make up. Until next time.

 

Do any of you ever get caught in this cycle?

 

 

 

 

 

Ever think he is looking for a fight in order to break it off anyway? What do single men do when they need to get away for awhile to do something that we would not agree with under a normal circumstance?

 

 

Stop reacting would be my suggestion, it only fuels whatever he may be looking to do. He may also be a drama lover- lover of tears, fits so on so forth. Wanting proof of your feelings by drawing out a reaction.

[Hope Shimmers]

I understand how a BS may find this hard to read and the hypocrisy of it when they have been in the BS' shoes. But it really isn't about him/her.

 

I'm an ex-OW and have never been a BS, and I find this extremely hard to read. It's disturbing from an entitlement point of view, and lack of moral compass.

 

The OW isn't his W. She isn't owed transparency. And it certainly is about the W. Go back and read the original post - it is about the OW having 'meltdowns' because she doesn't like something the W says. Do you think that just because you want to ignore the W in this triangle, that it isn't "about" her? That is just complete denial, IMO.

 

I will admit to feeling I was "owed" certain things while I was in the A (never complete transparency of MM and W's conversations however!) The fact is - and I believe this is the real source of the 'meltdowns' - despite this 'transparency', the OW is still accepting crumbs and still is participating in a triangle relationship and if a D-Day comes, odds are that the OW is the one who will be thrown under the bus and what good is "transparency" in that situation?

[Got it]

This is kind of my point. (Apologies if it was unclear.) But it relates to the "meltdown" aspect of the OP. If it's not realistic to expect it based off of history or the current dynamic, why the meltdown? Why not address the insatiable need to be this invasive instead of laying it all at the feet of the MM when he's not comfortable with how she reacts?

 

But that doesn't mean one can't put it out there based on their needs. If she needs that then he can agree or disagree. Whether or not he is showing that in his marriage and whether or not he can actually do it are separate. While history does give some information it is not a certainty.

 

I think there are two separate concerns. The need for information, what type of information, why the need for it, etc. And the second piece is his reaction to it.

 

His reaction is an interesting insight into his coping/fighting mechanism and it is a "the best defense is a good offense". So it is a turning of the tables. So I would address that with him, ask why he does that, that it is a way to shut down the other party and manipulate the argument. It shuts down Sol from expressing her feelings. So that is a topic to discuss. He may come back and say, like others have said, that you get what you get and roll with it so instead he flips it so get her to back off instead of standing the line and tell her to just deal (basically).

[krazikat]

This type of "transparent" deal is so incredibly hurtful to the third person who has no idea their communication is being viewed by an outside party to the existing couples marital dealings with each other. In my view this speaks of a lack of character and the lack of respect in my eyes would be devasting to the so called relationship. This also would apply to any third party privy to my communications with my partner without my consent be it ow/om/family members and so on. The breach of trust would shatter my trust of them. You don't need their communication to make informed decisions for your life. Your moral compass should guide you on this:)

 

I agree...and just as a person not as a bs. Sol would you want his wife to read all of your communications? Actually, how would you feel if another other was reading all of your communication? The fact that you would even ask for this speaks volumes about your trust in him, the fact that he allows this is showing he lacks a back bone. Clearly he is lying to his wife, who he pledged to love and cherish. He probably tells her he loves her daily, makes love to her, and lives with her like h and w. Why not just tell her he wants an open marriage or a divorce? Yes, divorce is tough but millions of people survive it intact.

[Sub]

I think there are two separate concerns. The need for information, what type of information, why the need for it, etc. And the second piece is his reaction to it.

 

Correct. I'm of the opinion, though, that the priority is figuring out and dealing with the need for information, why it happens, etc. If I was going to end up in a relationship with someone, it would be a pretty significant obstacle to overcome.

[thinkingofhim]

I agree...and just as a person not as a bs. Sol would you want his wife to read all of your communications? Actually, how would you feel if another other was reading all of your communication? The fact that you would even ask for this speaks volumes about your trust in him, the fact that he allows this is showing he lacks a back bone. Clearly he is lying to his wife, who he pledged to love and cherish. He probably tells her he loves her daily, makes love to her, and lives with her like h and w. Why not just tell her he wants an open marriage or a divorce? Yes, divorce is tough but millions of people survive it intact.

 

I agree as a person and an OW. Its one thing for him to cheat... I know that is a betrayal of BS, etc, but it is ultimately HIM making the decision to share HIMSELF with another woman. To share his wifes private thoughts and words with you..?! omg. That is just beyond the pale. Its absolutely horrifying. You say he fell in love with you and that can justify the betrayal of his wife, ok, that is one thing, but to share his wifes correspondence with you shows his true moral character. None.

 

Sorry and believe me I totally understand the desire to have a peeksie at their M but hooolleeeee smokes how can you not see this is a red flag that he is willing to do this. If this is the way he treats women just .. wow.

[Nothisgirl]

To answer the original question, absolutely not. Exmm tried that once, very early in our A... He was telling me something about his w and I got very upset and told him I couldn't do this (the a) he tried to turn it around on me and say **** like "I don't like this side of you" "I don't need this drama, that's not what I'm looking for" I made sure to show him the door really fast... He came crawling back, tail between his legs and apologized and admitted to trying to take the attention from himself. I made it clear I wouldn't/couldn't handle feeling like my feelings didn't matter..Rational or not they were mine. We never had another issue like that, that I can recall anyways.

 

He's being very manipulative.

 

Also, how in the world did you end up with two whole weeks together?

[jwi71]

Yes, I guess in essence I do sometimes get upset by what MM and his W communicate to each other. Indeed, the initial shock of first experiencing this is what brought me here to LS in the first instance.

 

What do you mean? What was "shocking"?

Was it the "I love you's"?

Or maybe "I hate you?"

I'm not even sure which would be worse.

 

Was it plans for their tomorrow - which clearly conflict with the plans with you...

 

Was he or she rude and derisive? Or cute nicknames? The intimacy or lack thereof? Was it hearing/reading/seeing something different from what he had led you to believe?

 

This shock can take so many forms - and its important to understand, for me anyway, WHAT was shocking. Because it affects what I say next (provided you reply).

 

Do I feel I have a 'right' to know? Not exactly... but I do feel he owes me transparency about his life so I can make informed decisions about mine. And he has always had access to all my accounts; even before I had his.

Provided his W does NOT know of the A and the impending divorce -

Then WHY do YOU expect to be treated any differently than he treats others...namely his W?

 

It makes NO sense to me to expect him to be open and honest with you when 1) he clearly isn't (look how he treats his W) 2) it benefits him to lie (by your own post - to spare your feelings).

 

And its important to see how he treats his W. Do not forget...they too were madly in love...had, built and shared a life. With ups and downs and fights and all night love-fests. Perhaps even children and all those shared memories. Yet look how he treats her now. Does she deserve that? Why do YOU deserve better from him?

 

See where I'm going here...

 

I know that none of this is logical or ethical or usual. I also get that it is manifestly unfair to his BS. It is however, something that I need in order to not feel lost and blind. This is why my MM offered and allows it.

To me its a lack of trust.

 

I guess the only slim parallel I can draw is that I sometimes feel like someone betrayed who needs all the detail to order and make sense of things. I don't have the option of asking him to go NC; but what I do have is option to be continually informed. I understand that this would offend the sensibilities of some (perhaps many).

You will only make yourself crazy.

...and I say this gently...but are you ready for an R?

Because you sound very afraid to me...and Im not sure its circumstance (its an A which carry more fear than a "not-A") or if its you - perhaps both.

 

Just something to consider.

 

Over time, my actually accessing the accounts has waxed and waned. Waxing generally coincides with my moments of greatest pain and insecurity. Which incidentally are also the times when I am most likely to be in powder keg mode; just ripe for implosion.

I'm replying as I read...and what I just typed above seems more pertinent to me now.

 

These are also the times when I am most ill at ease with my life in general; not just the A component in particular. There is a lot of truth to what you all say about having and maintaining a life, regardless of how difficult it may seem, while in an A in order to maintain sanity and well being.

If you are relying on an A to provide sanity and well-being you are in a bad place. An A is the complete opposite of this - certainly at times. There is no such thing as a "smooth" A - even those OW here who get M to the MM will tell you - its fraught with peril (more so than a "non-A" I mean).

 

2013 was a write off for me. I'm determined that 2014 won't be. And no, that doesn't mean I'll be leaving MM. But it is the year I'll be expecting him to step up. Come 2015, I won't be an AP any longer. One way or another. Meltdowns or no.

Remember, HE is choosing this life. Not you. He can file anytime he so chooses. It takes two to make an R...and you are clearly all in- where's he? Edited March 5, 2014 by jwi71
a word

[Got it]

I agree as a person and an OW. Its one thing for him to cheat... I know that is a betrayal of BS, etc, but it is ultimately HIM making the decision to share HIMSELF with another woman. To share his wifes private thoughts and words with you..?! omg. That is just beyond the pale. Its absolutely horrifying. You say he fell in love with you and that can justify the betrayal of his wife, ok, that is one thing, but to share his wifes correspondence with you shows his true moral character. None.

 

Sorry and believe me I totally understand the desire to have a peeksie at their M but hooolleeeee smokes how can you not see this is a red flag that he is willing to do this. If this is the way he treats women just .. wow.

 

Really??? This shocks me. That this is the bar of morality when you/me/Sol are having/had affair with a married man. That apparently sharing his genital is one thing but sharing emails between the two is suddenly beyond the pale.

 

That THAT is showing no moral character but apparently sharing his junk and his emotions shows some level of character.

 

Got it. So I can cheat. I just shouldn't also share correspondence because that is what will be the defining line.

[Hope Shimmers]

Really??? This shocks me. That this is the bar of morality when you/me/Sol are having/had affair with a married man. That apparently sharing his genital is one thing but sharing emails between the two is suddenly beyond the pale.

 

That THAT is showing no moral character but apparently sharing his junk and his emotions shows some level of character.

 

Got it. So I can cheat. I just shouldn't also share correspondence because that is what will be the defining line.

 

That's not how I read the initial response at all. No one said "you can cheat" and it will be moral. None of it is the "bar of morality". It all sucks and it's wrong. But this really is an entirely different/additional level of disrespect.

 

I think if the tables were turned and the OP was unknowingly having her communications read by an OOW, then it might be more clear how hypocritical this is and the true level of dishonor and disrespect all around.

[thinkingofhim]

Those genitals are his genitals to share. His wife's private thoughts and words are not his to share. JMO

[krazikat]

Really??? This shocks me. That this is the bar of morality when you/me/Sol are having/had affair with a married man. That apparently sharing his genital is one thing but sharing emails between the two is suddenly beyond the pale.

 

That THAT is showing no moral character but apparently sharing his junk and his emotions shows some level of character.

 

Got it. So I can cheat. I just shouldn't also share correspondence because that is what will be the defining line.

 

Well, none of it is moral but sharing someone elses private commuication with their spouse just adds to the betrayal. Just like having sex in bs home or car, or bringing the children around the ap. Neither of those are necesarily worse than the sex itself but speaks volumes about the minds and gross lack of rrespect and boundaries of those involved...

[eleanorrigby]

Really??? This shocks me. That this is the bar of morality when you/me/Sol are having/had affair with a married man. That apparently sharing his genital is one thing but sharing emails between the two is suddenly beyond the pale.

 

That THAT is showing no moral character but apparently sharing his junk and his emotions shows some level of character.

 

Got it. So I can cheat. I just shouldn't also share correspondence because that is what will be the defining line.

 

Sounds crazy huh? But I'd be more pissed about my private emails being shared then finding out I shared his genitals.

 

I've read OW say things like "you don't own him, what he gave me was HIS to share".

I've struggled with that because I can see it's a bit true. I don't own his body and as screwed up as it is, I guess he can share it around if he chooses. (be nice if I was told first though)

 

But my emails? Those are NOT free to share.

 

I think there are infinite lines MP/OW/M can cross. Just because you crossed one, does that mean you need to cross them all?

 

What if the OW decided she needed MM to photocopy BWs diaries because she feels she needs that information?

What if OW decides she needs to read all of MM's and BW's old love letters?

 

Come on, a line has to be drawn somewhere. And realize the BW is still at a disadvantage here. (I know it's not about the BW and who gives a rats ass anyway, right? But still.)

 

Were I an OW, I wouldn't put very much sensitive information down because I know there is a likelihood that my texts, emails, etc will be shared with a third party if there is a D-Day.

 

What BW is/should/would be thinking that when writing emails to her husband?

[SolG]

Wow! This thread has certainly taken on a life of it's own while I've been away. Gotta love LS :-) Good debate is a healthy thing.

 

I've contributed to any percieved threadjacking here; even inadvertantly steered it. By focussing on that element that seemed to draw the most query; that is the emails, etc. But in my OP I did refer to things 'like' texts or emails. They are by no means the only triggers. It could equally be not being able to eat at a particular restaurant because someone we know will be there. What I find is that my tolerance is diminishing over time and the cycle is turning more swiftly.

 

For those of you who asked about my initial reaction to MM and his W's texts, my first ever LS posts are here. This was the closest I've come yet to walking away from the A.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/other-man-woman/360696-i-m-your-mm-s-wife-13.html#post4711048

 

I get that it's unethical and unfair and intrusive. And that the BS doesn't deserve this. Any of it! I know I bear equal responsibllity for this along with my MM. My intent is to truly try and understand everthing that is happening here and what it means to and for me/us; I need the knowledge/data to analyse and sythesise and hopefully get to that understanding. It's what I do. In every facet of my life. Albeit it has never been this painful before. Not even when my own marriage ended way back when.

 

How did we spend two weeks together? It's not uncommon as we both travel a lot in our respective careers and meet up in different locations. Last year we spent a total of about three and a bit months together. This year will be different, he has moved to another job interstate with differing travel requirements to mine; even so, we've already had about three weeks together.

 

MM and I are coming up to four years now. And it's getting harder and harder to sustain. It seems the longer it goes on and the more I care and the more I know... the harder it gets. And the cycle keeps on spinning.

 

I know I can get off at any time. But I choose not to. Suppose that means I should stop whining about my meltdowns then I guess!

[georgia girl]

SoIG,

 

This post is about you and your responses to triggers in your relationship, so outside of any other judgment, I'm going to narrow my comments to that.

 

I do think there is an element of either insecurity or perhaps a feeling of inequity in your relationship which makes you trigger. You acknowledge that it's excessive that you request this level of detail, know that it drives you nuts when you get it but that you can't stop getting it.

 

I think - and it's just my opinion - that deep down you're trying to determine what relationship is primary to him and you need it to be yours. You have invested four years and you love this man deeply, I can tell. Conversely, this relationship isn't providing you with the safety and security you need to be your best self. If I had to hazard a guess, I would say you're usually not a jealous or obsessive person, correct? That, it's just this circumstance that's creating these "meltdowns" that you clearly don't like (or respect about yourself) given how you write about it.

 

My opinion - and again, take it for what it's worth - is that this fundamental element of your relationship needs to be fixed. You can't live with the duality. You wish you could because you love him and the good times are really good. But, then the duality of his wife and his other life set in and it threatens all you hold dear.

 

You have to decide for yourself how you want to handle it. You have to decide if you can accept duality and if so, is that acceptance in perpetuity or just for a specific period of time? You have to decide if its unacceptable and then renegotiate terms of endearment with him that are acceptable to you. And if he's not willing, you have to accept that reality and ultimately make plans for your future without him.

 

I'm not telling you to deliver an ultimatum or to leave. I'm saying that you are gradually working towards that point, as much as you don't want to. It's just not enough for you and I have to admit, it wouldn't be enough for me.

 

I think it's okay to decide that you don't want any changes for now and to keep going on. But I also think it's not okay to lie to yourself about how over the line the need for this total access is. It's not so much hurting the BS (although it would be devastating to me) as it is you, your confidence and your relationship.

 

I wish you the best.

 

GG

[gettingstronger]

GG. I so agree with what you are saying there. Even during our reconciliation when I was so freaked out and melting down I knew it was not the life I wanted. I decided if being with my husband meant meltdown after meltdown than I would leave. If I didn't feel myself making progress with being at peace with what my life had become that I would leave. I had no set timetable just the knowledge that an unhealthy relationship was not what I wanted out of life. Oddly enough when I gave myself permission to be selfish about me I became stronger and more focused. Things are progressing in a positive direction and so I continue reconciling but I know deep in my heart if it makes me miserable I will indeed leave. Op you need to do the same , life is too short to be in any relationship that leads to so much frustration that you meltdown regularly no matter how much you love him , you need to love you more.