"The Sisterhood" Ignored or Unheard Of?

March 7, 2014

1. Africa is not a nation. It is a continent, comprising many states and even more nations.

2. I have no idea which "government" you are referring to, since Africa has very many of these, but those whose policies I know in detail don't resemble anything you have described. In my own home country, in Africa, "birth control" has been free for decades and was free long before the HIV crisis. But uptakes were low because "birth control" was seen as yet another way the West was attempting to dictate terms to Africa, telling us how many children we were allowed to have. It was no accident that for many years AIDS was seen as a myth. "American Idea to Discourage Sex".

3. We were not forced but the WHO to change. Change had nothing to do with outside pressure, but with inside pressure. I know. I was one of the activists who worked relentlessly to get state policy on ARV provision changed, to change a raft of policy and procedure and provision.

4. No, sorry, I (nor my compatriots) have not benefitted from any fighting you may have done in your country for your laws to benefit your own kind. We fought our own struggles, wrote our own laws, pressured our own governments and we did it as men and women fighting together, side by side. Our legislation is more progressive than yours, and we did that for ourselves. We do not owe you or your "sisterhood" anything, we lost our own brothers and sisters and friends in our own struggles winning our own victories for our own people.

Sorry, but your ignorance on these matters really needs correcting. I cannot allow such blatantly false claims to pass as "fact". Have you ever been to Africa?

And which " Africa" would that be? You say Africa is not a country, yet you refer to it as such yourself. Is this a typo?

Are you really so naive that you believe that world pressure isn't one of the deciding factors in what any government does? Haven't you ever heard of trade sanctions and the like? In the modern world, these and multi nationals are the real players, as much as any individual country would like to believe otherwise. You obviously don't know as much about your country as you would like to believe if you think it so ehow stands alone against world pressure.

I most certainly do know many people who have been on the ground indifferent African countries ( some through MSF, some with Red Cross, some attached to WHO , UNICEF or the UN and some as peacekeepers) and the attitudes in each are very different depending on which you are in. Religion plays a huge role in some,not so much in others. Some are devided very much along tribal lines and some could be considered quite "Western".

Again, the irony in your post in evident.you lambaste another poster for not knowing what goes on in Africa, as she hasn't been there. Africa is a collection of many different countries, and each is quite different. What goes on in yours is not always going to be the same as what goes on in another. Have you been in every country in Africa and lived in each? If not, then you are no more qualified to comment than anyone else.

I may live in North America, but by virtue of that, am I somehow kore of an expert that anyone else in the world about what goes on in Mexico?

Btw, if one has to live in a country to make comment on their culture, then please refrain from making any comments about North America, as according to you, to understand a country, you'd have live there and your only knowledge of North Americans would be what you have either read of gleaned from mass media.

March 7, 2014

.. Controlling a woman's sexuality through labels like "promiscuous" is oppressive and demeaning and as reactionary as denying a woman the right to vote - or more so. ...

Enjoy helping each other mop up your children's sick, ladies, while the rest of us who are not embarrassed to be ambitious or goal directed go out and change the world.

Bringing up children well is a good way to change the world. Being a committed mother is not something to be disparaged. Feminism is about valuing the things that women do, not prescribing what they do. Making snide comments about mopping up sick is quite as narrow-minded as telling women what to do with their sexuality. As it happened I have always worked out of the home by necessity as much as by choice but I think what I achieved as a mother matters quite as much as what I achieved in the workplace.

March 8, 2014

So it appears we have a few different ideas and opinions of the sisterhood...and that is okay! We all have our own experiences. Just remember to keep it respectful...

I am surprised by some of the negative impressions some have about the idea of sisterhood. In my mind, and how I was taught, it is supposed to be positive...supporting and not judgemental. It has nothing to do with being a stay at home mom...or even a mom at all. Its also not about doing girly stuff together...although you can....and it is not about a bunch of girls getting together to gang up on some perceived wrong. It ultimately is about respect and doing right..acting with integrity...standing together when times are tough, etc. I believe that women are still at a disadvantage but some dont agree. I had asked a few questions that came up during discussion that have not been answered yet....

1. If women are equal to men in business..why are there so many different business coursesthat are specificly for women in business to teach them how to be taken as seriously as guys? Ime corporate America is still very much a boys club...and as a very ambitious woman this has caused issues at times...

2. A few people stated women are at a greater advantage then their male peers. How so? And where at?

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts, I am quite.fascinated

March 8, 2014

It was one of the things that bothered me the most about what I did - I broke the girl code and the Mom code. We need to have each other's back and I didn't, as a woman OR a mom.
If she was like me when she became a BS she couldn't function as a mother. And my actions caused that. It was one of the hardest things to forgive myself for.

The night my husband met OW1 he showed everyone around him a picture of me in a bikini - they all oohed and awwed I guess. "Game on," I'm sure she thought -she emailed him that night.

We've had a few conversations about how women compete with each other since then. I'm very conscious of it now.

Katie, that competition thing between women can be a real bitch.

Well, how is this for a brain freeze....I believe in the sisterhood, but I have a very hard time trusting other women.

See, doesnt make sense.

March 8, 2014

I was listening to Woman's Hour on BBC4 radio yesterday as I was at home sick. It's usually something I switch off because I see it as the epitome of 'sisterhood's attempt to control women but I listened to some of it.

A young woman (late 20s I believe) was interviewed about her breast cancer. It took 8 months to diagnose it because she was so young and she was on birthcontrol pills they believed her symptomps were hormonal. By the time she was diagnosed she bled through her nipples and it was noticed that the cancer had spread to her back. She had to have her breasts removed.

As a result of the above, she started a campaign for better awareness of breast cancer and self-examination for the under 40s (rather than focus on the higher risk age group) and she set up a small charity. This small charity suddenly had the opportunity to raise awareness through The Sun which is the biggest tabloid newspaper in the UK with 6 million daily readers. One of the main features is its Page 3 where topless girls show off their breasts on a daily basis Page 3 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's Page 3 that took up this awareness campaign. There is a lot of pressure in Britain today to get rid of this feature as it is seen as sexist and objectifying women.

The rest of the interview after this was focused on whether the breast awareness campaign would help to make Page 3 more acceptable (the young woman confirmed that the biggest opposition groups were absolutely fine about it) and then she was asked how she felt looking at Page 3 girls' breasts exposed after her own had been chopped off.

I just felt outrage. Putting political issues above people's personal well being on an National radio programme that has millions of listeners. The same way when the cheap silicon breast implants scandal broke and there were quite a few women worried about it. The comment by a leading feminist on the programme was made that 'those women deserved it wanting to look like Jordan'. I am not joking. (Jordan is a famous British glamour model with large fake breasts).

The political hidden agenda always comes to the surface. When women's emotional and physical well being is put second to thwarting male enjoyment of female sexuality. It always comes down to some misandrist feminist agenda that dismisses every woman that doesn't feel that way. How even make up and lipstick are bad, slut shaming.

That programme makes me want to hurl every time I listen to it. Sisterhood.....

March 8, 2014

I was listening to Woman's Hour on BBC4 radio yesterday as I was at home sick. It's usually something I switch off because I see it as the epitome of 'sisterhood's attempt to control women but I listened to some of it.

A young woman (late 20s I believe) was interviewed about her breast cancer. It took 8 months to diagnose it because she was so young and she was on birthcontrol pills they believed her symptomps were hormonal. By the time she was diagnosed she bled through her nipples and it was noticed that the cancer had spread to her back. She had to have her breasts removed.

As a result of the above, she started a campaign for better awareness of breast cancer and self-examination for the under 40s (rather than focus on the higher risk age group) and she set up a small charity. This small charity suddenly had the opportunity to raise awareness through The Sun which is the biggest tabloid newspaper in the UK with 6 million daily readers. One of the main features is its Page 3 where topless girls show off their breasts on a daily basis Page 3 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's Page 3 that took up this awareness campaign. There is a lot of pressure in Britain today to get rid of this feature as it is seen as sexist and objectifying women.

The rest of the interview after this was focused on whether the breast awareness campaign would help to make Page 3 more acceptable (the young woman confirmed that the biggest opposition groups were absolutely fine about it) and then she was asked how she felt looking at Page 3 girls' breasts exposed after her own had been chopped off.

I just felt outrage. Putting political issues above people's personal well being on an National radio programme that has millions of listeners. The same way when the cheap silicon breast implants scandal broke and there were quite a few women worried about it. The comment by a leading feminist on the programme was made that 'those women deserved it wanting to look like Jordan'. I am not joking. (Jordan is a famous British glamour model with large fake breasts).

The political hidden agenda always comes to the surface. When women's emotional and physical well being is put second to thwarting male enjoyment of female sexuality. It always comes down to some misandrist feminist agenda that dismisses every woman that doesn't feel that way. How even make up and lipstick are bad, slut shaming.

That programme makes me want to hurl every time I listen to it. Sisterhood.....

Here's the thing...when it comes to politics or even any other situation where there is an agenda of some sort...then those involved may tap into a number of things to exploit that may help them get what they want. In these situations the concept of sisterhood is exploited...but just because something has been exploited doesn't make it bad on it's own....you know what I mean?

March 8, 2014

So it appears we have a few different ideas and opinions of the sisterhood...and that is okay! We all have our own experiences. Just remember to keep it respectful...

I am surprised by some of the negative impressions some have about the idea of sisterhood. In my mind, and how I was taught, it is supposed to be positive...supporting and not judgemental. It has nothing to do with being a stay at home mom...or even a mom at all. Its also not about doing girly stuff together...although you can....and it is not about a bunch of girls getting together to gang up on some perceived wrong. It ultimately is about respect and doing right..acting with integrity...standing together when times are tough, etc. I believe that women are still at a disadvantage but some dont agree. I had asked a few questions that came up during discussion that have not been answered yet....

1. If women are equal to men in business..why are there so many different business coursesthat are specificly for women in business to teach them how to be taken as seriously as guys? Ime corporate America is still very much a boys club...and as a very ambitious woman this has caused issues at times...

2. A few people stated women are at a greater advantage then their male peers. How so? And where at?

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts, I am quite.fascinated

Re: Bolded. How is that any different than what should apply to both sexes? Why should that be highlighted for women and not for both genders? And if it is, re; Golden Rule and religious teachings, why do we need a redundant concept?

Why can't I just stand up for the downtrodden in general and why do I have to feel an affiliation to someone just because of the same sex? I also think geography plays a factor into this belief. As I posited in a prior post, I suspect this a bigger concept in southern and midwest states and those of a judeo-christian belief.

I started asking different women in my company about this and found the above to be true. Those not from the US and/or military/traveled have not heard of this and/or do not believe in it outside of a more general Golden Rule concept.

In regards to the concept of Sisterhood I feel like I have answered every question. We are going down the road of Women's Rights, advancements in work, etc. that I think are different than the original post.

Women need to continue to push forward with the workplace. BUT there is no way to have it all. Taking time off to have children is going to negatively impact a career. There is no two ways about it and something that you have to take into account. There is no way, and no reason a company should have to accommodate any employee taking years off and expect to come back at the same level as their counterpart. I think that is naive working.

For myself, my husband and I have discussed having children. If we do, because I am the higher paid, higher level I would continue working. He wants to be home first and has a stronger desire. We would also try and balance any time off between the two resumes so no major gap would be present for either party so their upward mobility is not negatively impacted. I also have the ability and the desire to have a multi-generational childcaring/rearing so we have discussed his mother moving in with us as well as my mom retiring soon and watching any child.

Women have to recognize taking time off to raise offspring has a balancing effect on their careers have need to discuss with their husbands a more equal time off. One has to also focus on continuing education and projects will not in the traditional workforce so if needed can jump back in with applicable experiences. Again, Leaning In discusses this well and I recommend the book.

The US workplace is still not equal between the genders but it isn't equal with any minority as well as those starting in a lower economic class. Industries are different and the retail/hospitality space sees more people able to work their way up.

But I see the above as a big picture focus and I do not carve out women from it.

March 8, 2014

Katie, that competition thing between women can be a real bitch.

Well, how is this for a brain freeze....I believe in the sisterhood, but I have a very hard time trusting other women.

See, doesnt make sense.

Okay, don't you see this in what we are saying? You discuss and promote this sisterhood ideal but then say you have a hard time trusting women? That is completely hypocritical. How do you struggle trusting women, as a group, but then espouse a belief that we should have "Hands Across America"?

This is the ugly underbelly we are saying is the issue with this Sisterhood concept. It is the way it should be for women you know or act like you, if they don't then they are not trusted.

I don't feel in competition with women. I don't have issues trusting women. I feel in competition with myself and I am cautious in trusting others in general until I get to know them better.

Why is gender so important and why is it such a big deal if others don't feel this way? Why is it so hard to believe?

Another line of thinking, I am a vegetarian. I do not eat meat and haven't for a long time. But I do not expect others to have the same belief nor do I struggle with their lack of desire or willingness. I understand it as a personal belief for me and I am happy about that. I have little desire or expectation to force or even expect everyone to believe as I do. I don't expect even fellow vegetarians to have the same beliefs and reasons that I do on what I eat and don't eat.

March 8, 2014

Are things so bad among women that we have to remind them to play nicely?

March 8, 2014

The US workplace is still not equal between the genders but it isn't equal with any minority as well as those starting in a lower economic class. Industries are different and the retail/hospitality space sees more people able to work their way up.

But I see the above as a big picture focus and I do not carve out women from it.

You're right, they're not equal, they're excelling. Educated black and asian women earn more than educated white women.

It's not about discrimination. A lot of black women aren't raised with the victim mentality, and thus, they succeed. Black women are more successful because they get married later if at all and spend less time with there kids.

There you go folks, the key to equality-be as much like a man as possible. Delay marriage, dont get married until you are settled if at all, spend very little time with your kids.

March 8, 2014

You're right, they're not equal, they're excelling. Educated black and asian women earn more than educated white women.

It's not about discrimination. A lot of black women aren't raised with the victim mentality, and thus, they succeed. Black women are more successful because they get married later if at all and spend less time with there kids.

There you go folks, the key to equality-be as much like a man as possible. Delay marriage, dont get married until you are settled if at all, spend very little time with your kids.

Wow, can you cite that? Nothing I have seen has ever shown those stats.

http://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/publications/factsheet-erm.aspx

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/26/wealth-gap-whites-minorities_n_909465.html

http://www.globalenvision.org/2011/08/17/inequality-rise-minorities-have-20-times-less-wealth-whites

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0882775.html

Edited March 8, 2014 by Got it

March 8, 2014

Sisterhood does not exist.

March 8, 2014

Just read through this whole thread, and it reminds me of Groucho Marx: "I don't want to belong to any club that will accept me as a member."

Happy International Women's Day! :bunny:

March 8, 2014

Today is "International Women's Day" the the theme for 2014 is inspiring change.

It's global initiative is to bring equality for women in all aspects of life all over the globe.

Cheers to women and their awesomeness.:love:

Edited March 8, 2014 by Furious

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