Devoted to my daughters. Divorce?

[mgaml]

I will try to make a long story short but I am looking for help. I've been married for 19 years. Have 3 beautiful daughters (8, 10, 14) that I adore and cannot live without. I have been miserably married for about 13 of those 19 years. Not sure what either of us were thinking when we got married. We do not fight in front of the girls, no one knows we have issues. We keep appearances well. My issue is, I'm a physical contact, need passion, want that spark, sit by me and let me run my fingers through your hair kind of person. My wife...no desire for any of that at all. Sex never has crossed her mind, hates physical contact and is perfectly happy with things the way they are, or so it seems. I have talked about it with her for as long as I can remember. Over the years I have become a completely cold, mean, and quite an a$$ to her. She points that out regularly but the years of resentment and anger has taken its toll. Went to counseling a few years back...counselor thought she has some aversion to physical contact from a man and thinks she was blocking something out but she wouldn't go back after that. Anyway...after years of no contact and an emotionless marriage...I think I have had enough. There are details I'm leaving out for time but I have asked her many times that we try. I have brought up separation and divorce many times. She is not having it and never wants to talk about it. We both have done our part to get where we are at and I cannot see fixing it and frankly, I have lost the want to fix it.

 

The situation: Have a house, land, 20 years of debt, and most importantly 3 daughters that I absolutely cannot live without. They need me for that affection that lacks on her part. I need to tuck them in at night...wake them every morning. I am the one that they snuggle with. They sleep with one of shirts if I am out of town. I could never be an every other weekend dad. They do not see the issues with their parents. They do however, see that there is no loving contact between us, no kisses or hugs.

 

What can do? I honestly feel there is no hope in the marriage but I signed up to be a dad and thought I was mentally prepared for a loveless and cold marriage so I could be the Dad I am supposed to be and find happiness in them alone but it's eating at me and again, I cannot stand the thought of seeing or causing any pain in my girls' eyes. Any help?

[bubbaganoosh]

Sounds like you exhausted your efforts. Look, if there is nothing left between you and your wife and you think that the next step is divorce, then I would go for it.

 

You can keep up the appearances for only so long but sooner or later the cracks will appear and the kids will pick up on it if they haven't already but haven't said anything. Remember, kids have ears and they hear things when you think they don't. I know this first hand.

 

No doubt you love your daughters and speaking from experience, I had my daughters every other weekend and know first hand that you can spend 24 hours, 7 days a week in the same room with someone and still not be there. In other words, quality time beats quantity time hands down.

 

You can still be a great dad and your kids will know that you love them and will be there for them.

 

You deserve to be happy and the situation your in isn't a happy marriage. Think about what you want to do and good luck.

[mgaml]

Thank you for the reply. I do need to decide where to start and whats next. She said recently that she wants to keep trying but I've heard that dozens and dozens of times before. I know the marriage is emotionally over...it's the other things I am having a hard time wrapping my head around. The little things, the day to day things the girls do. I don't think they will get what they need from her on the day to day. She is a good mother but lacks in certain things. I do not want them to not get the attention they need or the fun times. They already say she is not fun and doesn't laugh. So,I guess I need to see how custody works. I know she'll fight me on that. Seems like it would be easier if I could get her to say she wants a divorce. I do not want to be the bad guy to my girls. I would never speak negatively about her but I'm pretty sure she would bash me whenever possible to the girls. "Daddy walked out" "Daddy gave up" Lots to think about....

[amaysngrace]

I'm wondering if she was traumatized throughout her life? Do you have any idea one way or the other?

 

What was her family life like growing up?

[d0nnivain]

Would your wife consider going back to a different counselor? the fact that the 1st one didn't help doesn't mean they all won't.

 

If you are truly cold & calous to your wife, your girls know even if you don't fight in front of them.

 

What are the chances that you would get full physical custody?

[mgaml]

I know very well. Her parents had a cold marriage. Her dad never hugged her. Never told he loved her. As far as I could see, other than that, no other traumatic events that I'm aware of. When we went to MC, The counselor thought there may be something in her past that she is blocking out and wanted to see her on her own to see if he pull it out but she refused to go back. She used the way her dad was as an excuse for how she is but I always told her she is her own person and can can change that. She is loving to the girls, not as much as I think she should be but way more than her dad was to her.

[mgaml]

Would your wife consider going back to a different counselor? the fact that the 1st one didn't help doesn't mean they all won't.

 

If you are truly cold & calous to your wife, your girls know even if you don't fight in front of them.

 

What are the chances that you would get full physical custody?

 

 

They do see it to an extent but I'm never mean to her in front of them.

 

She doesn't want to go back to counseling. I am not sure about custody. I don't know yet how that works. I'm sure she would be primary...she works like I do, makes about the same income. She's not crazy or a bad mom. I think the best i could hope for is 50/50 but I have read that, that doesn't work.

[SammySammy]

I'm wondering if she was traumatized throughout her life? Do you have any idea one way or the other?

 

What was her family life like growing up?

 

I was thinking along the same lines.

 

I was once engaged to a woman who was cold and distant like that. We had sex sparingly and she didn't like to be touched. I asked her had she been raped and it was as if she had been struck by a lightning bolt. She sat down and told me the whole story. Not only had she been raped, but she became pregnant from the rape and aborted the child. Though she had emotionally dealt with the rape, she said the thought of that child and what he/she could be doing continually haunted her.

 

I'm not suggesting the OP's wife has been raped. I'm just saying the lack of affection toward her husband - whatever the cause - is damaging her marriage.

 

At this point, there are three solutions:

 

1. Stay with the wife and both make a sincere effort to work on the relationship.

 

2. The OP stays in a miserable marriage for the sake of his daughters.

 

3. The OP divorces his wife and tries to make the best of the rest of his life.

 

Neither solution is simple or easy.

[Mr.Milked]

Sounds like you exhausted your efforts. Look, if there is nothing left between you and your wife and you think that the next step is divorce, then I would go for it.

Is that what you wanted to hear mgaml? There are plenty of jaded people here to tell you this. Though it does seem as though you are not willing to make the situation better by your actions and expect her to do all the changes.

 

"You deserve to be happy"

 

 

Nowhere in life is this ever so popular a saying than here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What does "you deserve to be happy" even mean?

 

 

Life has a lot of lumps and if your woman is a good mom and isn't cheating on you physically, emotionally and economically, there is a lot of room to grow and mature.

[Mr.Milked]

They do see it to an extent but I'm never mean to her in front of them.

 

She doesn't want to go back to counseling. I am not sure about custody. I don't know yet how that works. I'm sure she would be primary...she works like I do, makes about the same income. She's not crazy or a bad mom. I think the best i could hope for is 50/50 but I have read that, that doesn't work.

May I ask where you read 50/50 doesn't work? Aside from you will not be tucking your girls in EVERY night. Is it that you really want to be? A weekend dad and maybe have been holding back on other motives?

Edited March 6, 2014 by Mr.Milked

[CarrieT]

Get a divorce and fight for 50/50 custody.

 

Your daughters will be fine and their life won't be ruined by being the product of a divorce. In fact, you might be able to teach them more valuable lessons about being true to themselves instead of living a lie; because at some point, they will be cognizant enough to understand their parents don't like each other and what lesson is THAT teaching them?

[Mr.Milked]

Get a divorce and fight for 50/50 custody.

 

Your daughters will be fine and their life won't be ruined by being the product of a divorce. In fact, you might be able to teach them more valuable lessons about being true to themselves instead of living a lie; because at some point, they will be cognizant enough to understand their parents don't like each other and what lesson is THAT teaching them?

And you know this to be true because?

[mgaml]

Is that what you wanted to hear mgaml? There are plenty of jaded people here to tell you this. Though it does seem as though you are not willing to make the situation better by your actions and expect her to do all the changes.

 

"You deserve to be happy"

 

Nowhere in life is this ever so popular a saying than here.

 

What does "you deserve to be happy" even mean?

 

Life has a lot of lumps and if your woman is a good mom and isn't cheating on you physically, emotionally and economically, there is a lot of room to grow and mature.

Not sure what I wanted to hear. Ideally, we wouldn't divorce if we could get the marriage where it needs to be. I was not always mean and resentful....it took years to get here. I think it was when she said she had no emotional room for me or maybe the time she said she could never be the loving woman I wanted...said I was living in a fairy tale and people don't really love like that. I have never asked her to do all the changing. I did expect however, halfway. There is so much more to a marriage than not cheating Mr. Milked. I wanted to be the man she loved, wanted, touched. I just don't think I'm that guy and to your other reply; I would much rather stay in the marriage than to see my kids every other weekend. I need to see them every day.

[mgaml]

May I ask where you read 50/50 doesn't work? Aside from you will not be tucking your girls in EVERY night. Is it that you really want to be? A weekend dad and maybe have been holding back on other motives?

 

Can't recall which websites or particular journals in which I read, but they have many mixed reviews on 50/50. One said works when they are younger but when they get older and after school events for each get more and more, it's tough to navigate and can have a negative affect on their sense of security and where home is. It went on to say that unless you lived extremely close, the kids spent more time going back and forth and not having a routine and that would cause the feeling of instability.

[pteromom]

I would much rather stay in the marriage than to see my kids every other weekend. I need to see them every day.

 

Then your only option is staying. Because if you leave, you'll get 50/50 custody at best. If that is not acceptable, you have to stay.

 

So here are some options:

 

- Keep doing the same things and continue to be miserable. (This is not a good choice for anyone involved, not just you.)

 

- Start trying other things. Even if your wife doesn't want to make changes, you can change the patterns in the marriage a lot on your own. Work on letting go of resentment and accepting your wife as she is. Work on focusing on what you have vs. what you are missing. Think back to when your wife fell in love with you, and try to get back into that head space and recreate those feelings... maybe you can inspire her to be more loving. Read lots of books on improving marriage. If you can get your wife to read them with you, even better.

 

- Have an affair. But know your girls will likely hate you if it comes out.

 

- Talk to your wife about options to get your physical needs met. Would she be up for an open marriage? Would she be ok with you seeing an escort occasionally?

 

- Just see an escort discreetly on your own.

 

- Put your energy into other things that make you happy. Take up running or weightlifting or painting or skydiving, or writing a novel.

[pteromom]

...unless your wife would be amicable in a divorce and would let you come over for dinner and to tuck the girls in every night. I have friends who have maintained their friendships with their exes and have situations like this.

[CarrieT]

And you know this to be true because?

 

Experience.

[SoleMate]

It's too soon, IMO, to give up on the marriage because you have not fully tried everything. Please read The Sex-Starved Marriage by Michele Weiner-Davis. And also understand that when you meet your wife's coldness with hostility, and spend time justifying that hostility, you guarantee your marriage will never improve, whereas a softer approach gives you at least a chance.

 

You seem to be starved for affection, wounded by rejection, and deeply hurt and angry about it and you've turned that into punishing hostility towards your wife. I understand that behavior very well because I, too, at times have engaged in it. It is ultimately self-defeating but it can take quite a while and a lot of personal growth to truly understand that.

 

There is no panacea, but by changing yourself and your behavior, there's at least a chance of changing your marriage. The behavior you've been using for years has left you hopeless, bitter, and angry. And make no mistake, you are hurting the people you AREN'T angry at - your girls and yourself - as much as your wife. Your girls are too immature to truly process why or to what extent the loving father who hugs them and tucks them in is a cold, mean @$$h01e to their mom, but of course everyone in a household suffers from the bitterness. Do you realize you are training them to be in a dysfunctional marriage themselves one day? Children live what they learn and (without intervention and therapy) often replicate their parents' marriage.

 

How much do you love your daughters? Enough to run into a burning building, drag your battered body over broken glass, etc. to save them and comfort them? Enough to shelter their retreat while you face off against the charging grizzly bear? Yes?

 

Then you must love them enough to try one more thing to fix your marriage. Read the book. It has answers and help for you.

[mgaml]

That's a great post Solemate...thank you. I will get the book.

 

I do realize what I am about to say is probably a defense and/or an excuse, but here it go anyhow. It's is not just sex that I need or want, although a wonderful side affect of intimacy and passion, it's the intimacy and passion I desire. I do not ever make snide remarks in front of the girls. Again, there is no fighting between us. I don't raise my voice or yell at her. I do agree that initially, my reactions to her rejection were childish. Before we got married I noticed she was not am intimate person but we didn't see each other a lot. Never lived together. I thought at the time that once we got married, it would be different because we would be around each other much more. (we were very young) It never improved but I still kissed her goodbye each morning. Got flowers. Wrote romantic notes. At Christmas and Birthdays, I always went overboard with themed presents. Opened the door for her. Then I started to notice that she never approached me for hugs or a kiss. Would forget cards at Christmas and Valentines day. She wouldn't sit next to me or hold my hand unless I asked her to or I initiated it. One day I decided to stop doing those things and it went unnoticed for months. I then started feeling hurt and rejected. Then it changed direction to resentment when I would try to kiss her or touch her hair and she would say stop or bat my hand away. So I went through cycles of I can be a loving romantic nice guy or NOT. Anything she said I did to cause her disgust for me I would change, lots of years here to experiment on what would work. If she said i didn't do enough around the house....I do more...nothing changed. I'm too mean...I went back to asking her sit with me, making her hold my hand, doing my best to what she wanted, and again, no change. So, somewhere down the line I just gave up and stopped trying. Counseling came after she has asked me why I F*** everything up. (was building our house at the time...economy crashed..money ran out) I bought her new cars anytime time she had an itch. I have kept her a new car since we got married. Bigger and Bigger houses. (Think my attempt to make her happy) After the many cycles of bitterness and resentment and my bitterness making her move even further into her hate for intimacy, I gave up. There is no fighting anymore. I don't say anything anymore. We don't talk unless it's a scheduling thing for the girls or household stuff. We have turned into roommates with kids. There are other details, financial and whatnot that would be even more lengthy hen novel I just wrote that I will not dive into.

[Mr.Milked]

That's a great post Solemate...thank you. I will get the book.

 

I do realize what I am about to say is probably a defense and/or an excuse, but here it go anyhow. It's is not just sex that I need or want, although a wonderful side affect of intimacy and passion, it's the intimacy and passion I desire. I do not ever make snide remarks in front of the girls. Again, there is no fighting between us. I don't raise my voice or yell at her. I do agree that initially, my reactions to her rejection were childish. Before we got married I noticed she was not am intimate person but we didn't see each other a lot. Never lived together. I thought at the time that once we got married, it would be different because we would be around each other much more. (we were very young) It never improved but I still kissed her goodbye each morning. Got flowers. Wrote romantic notes. At Christmas and Birthdays, I always went overboard with themed presents. Opened the door for her. Then I started to notice that she never approached me for hugs or a kiss. Would forget cards at Christmas and Valentines day. She wouldn't sit next to me or hold my hand unless I asked her to or I initiated it. One day I decided to stop doing those things and it went unnoticed for months. I then started feeling hurt and rejected. Then it changed direction to resentment when I would try to kiss her or touch her hair and she would say stop or bat my hand away. So I went through cycles of I can be a loving romantic nice guy or NOT. Anything she said I did to cause her disgust for me I would change, lots of years here to experiment on what would work. If she said i didn't do enough around the house....I do more...nothing changed. I'm too mean...I went back to asking her sit with me, making her hold my hand, doing my best to what she wanted, and again, no change. So, somewhere down the line I just gave up and stopped trying. Counseling came after she has asked me why I F*** everything up. (was building our house at the time...economy crashed..money ran out) I bought her new cars anytime time she had an itch. I have kept her a new car since we got married. Bigger and Bigger houses. (Think my attempt to make her happy) After the many cycles of bitterness and resentment and my bitterness making her move even further into her hate for intimacy, I gave up. There is no fighting anymore. I don't say anything anymore. We don't talk unless it's a scheduling thing for the girls or household stuff. We have turned into roommates with kids. There are other details, financial and whatnot that would be even more lengthy hen novel I just wrote that I will not dive into.

Let us start with the basics...

How Women Manipulate - YouTube

[Mr.Milked]

Not sure what I wanted to hear. Ideally, we wouldn't divorce if we could get the marriage where it needs to be. I was not always mean and resentful....it took years to get here. I think it was when she said she had no emotional room for me or maybe the time she said she could never be the loving woman I wanted...said I was living in a fairy tale and people don't really love like that. I have never asked her to do all the changing. I did expect however, halfway. There is so much more to a marriage than not cheating Mr. Milked. I wanted to be the man she loved, wanted, touched. I just don't think I'm that guy and to your other reply; I would much rather stay in the marriage than to see my kids every other weekend. I need to see them every day.

I want you to remember that women have ten times the brain compartment of things we ever, ever said. You are here already admitting you are a tad bitter upon her as husband over a few things she said. You need to analyze those things she said, prove her wrong, and never mention them again.

[pteromom]

Before we got married I noticed she was not am intimate person but we didn't see each other a lot.

 

 

I do more...nothing changed.

 

Changed into what? You admit that she wasn't into physical affection before you married. So your mistake was expecting her to change once you were married.

 

You have to understand that if this is just the way she is (and if she isn't physically affectionate with her children either, that's a good bet), that nothing is going to change her into a warm touchy person.

 

It has NOTHING to do with you. It's not a rejection of your love. It's her personality.

 

Now that said, it is important to compromise when in a marriage, and she should be willing to put forth some effort to show you love in the way you want it shown. But you aren't exactly inspiring her to try either.

 

Regardless, the only person you can change is you. And it has to be a change in your attitude and behaviors, not to try to force your wife to change, but with the goal of becoming happier in your life.

[pteromom]

You need to analyze those things she said, prove her wrong, and never mention them again.

 

Going in with the intention of proving your partner wrong is a destructive path. NEVER DO THIS.

 

You are a team. Always approach problems with the goal to get both of you as much of what you want as possible, not to "win".

[Mr.Milked]

Going in with the intention of proving your partner wrong is a destructive path. NEVER DO THIS.

 

You are a team. Always approach problems with the goal to get both of you as much of what you want as possible, not to "win".

petermom, my comment was really pertaining to this:

 

 

"when she said she had no emotional room for me or maybe the time she said she could never be the loving woman I wanted...said I was living in a fairy tale and people don't really love like that."

 

This would be something worthwhile to prove your partner wrong and it does not have to be a "team" effort at all.

 

 

One thing a lot of women don't understand is how men lead so much better.