So... ...

[nowaygoingthereagain]

I am the WS. A H of 15+ years and a father of 2 young teens.

 

My story is no different than many of yours and like you, I need help. I found a younger MW late 18 months ago. She and her H of 6 years have no children. I came to find out I was not her first EA or PA. She was not my first PA, over the years I have slipped but with zero emotion or investment in those relationships. we both come from backgrounds where this is cyclical in our families. Me with my male figures in my family outside of my immediate father. Her with her mother.

 

We found a common lifestyle. I knew from the start the attraction and we started to put each other on a pedestal, gave each other attention, and made plans to figure out ways to spend time together. Our time together grew significantly and others saw this. Our spouses saw it, but we continued. It was betrayal. Initially it was not emotional for me. I was looking for a conquest or a power trip. My W is both a physically attractive and very stable individual though I was bored and I feel she can be a challenge. It was emotional for my fAP, and she shared that she never fell in love with anyone before...of course with me. Oh, it made me feel good. We were both scared and I think we tried to slow it down, but eventually for a just a few weeks within a span of a year, it turned to a PA.

 

During that process, she was in MC with her H and I was in IC trying to figure out what the hell was going on with my AP and if I wanted to be married. Eventually, her H confronted her. She denied everything. And somehow we continued to spend time together with only and EA but no PA. We both quit conseling. The A was dying for sure as more conflict started to occur and I quit trying to spend more time with her, also I felt NC was needed but I went back and forth, so I ignored messages, but I would always come back. Each time I was encouraged I was going to get the attention I once got, but eventually all I got was guilty feelings and I felt like I was being taunted by her because she was trying to put her H and her M in a more and more positive light. Not too long ago, I confronted her and told she was liar and that she used me to fill the emotional void in her life and enhance her M. The last time I communicated with her was 2 months ago. I feel she has tried to indirectly contact me since then, but she has not contacted me either. Thus it has been NC.

 

In this process, I have not totally neglected my W, but obviously I am the dickhead and ass. My W and I used to talk about her and I admitted to an EA. My W knows I no longer see my fAP and so we never bring her up anymore.

 

The sad part is I believe my feelings were genuine. I did fall for it or her. I believe in retrospect, she did not for me. I believe she was gone long time ago. I am not looking for pity.

 

However, I have had a couple of serious relationships prior to my M, no I never cheated. One I broke up, the other I did not, but there was closure. In this case there are so many questions I have but there is no closure. Yes I have read the Dr. Glass book, and yes I believe in my M.

 

What I need help with is no mental NC? What have you done? Is this normal? Does time kill it? Why did she taunt me? Why did I hit so hard? Believe it or not, I am better, busier, and much more goal oriented than before, but inside I think about her every day, many times a day...

 

I wonder if she thinks about me, but I try not too...

 

I cannot obviously go to her anymore for closure. Whether it was me who acted like I was pulling away or not, I fear what I find there whether it is the hurt from her, or maybe worse the hurt from losing my W.

 

Somebody knock some sense into me so I can move one.

 

Thank you

[nowaygoingthereagain]

Am I the only MM and OM on this forum. Holy smokes!

[wanting more]

No. We've only got a couple and they'll be along soon.

 

You want mental NC?? Don't think about her. Doesn't really matter IF she loved you. She's not with you now.

 

I know it's not easy but it does get better with time.

[Quiet Storm]

Can you start counseling again? If you tell the therapist that your goal is to stop thinking about her and move on, they can help you do this. Its possible to redirect and manage your thoughts. Ask for cognitive behavioral therapy.

 

It seems like you are blaming the OW. If she wants to focus on her marriage... thats her choice. You should understand since you are married, too. If you love her, if you are her friend, then have her best interests at heart. Let her go. For you, for her, for your spouses and families.

 

It sounds like you both intellectually know that this affair is wrong and that it should stop. The problem is that your emotions have not caught up yet. They will with time, if you learn how to stop feeding those feelings. You need time and distance.

[nowaygoingthereagain]

QS...why do say I am blaming her? For what? The A - it take 2 to tango.

 

Cause I said she taunted me? I did NC for days at a time, only to receive a new txt than I wanted attention, gave her attention, than was presented by all these good things she was doing with her H. Why did she reach out to me in the first place?

 

Because I still think about her. No I recognize that's my fault.

 

I am guessing what you are getting at but its a new aspect not brought up to me, so please clarify otherwise it'll just be another question I'll end up rationalizing for a while.

 

Maybe I am looking for some reassurance, I don't know, that I was not the emotional one here. If I loved her, and she had nothing for me, why didn't she just cut it long ago. Why after 3 days of NC, she checked up on me?

[Quiet Storm]

It seems you are perceiving her actions as taunting, but you said the A was dying, you stopped trying to see her and didn't respond to her messages. You act like she's the only one playing games, but she could easily say the same about you. You both sound conflicted and confused. Its hard to let go.

 

I have no way to know how she feels. But just because she is working on her marriage doesn't mean her feelings weren't genuine and she never loved you.

 

She may be trying to redirect her thoughts and manage her feelings. She's changing her focus. The grass gets greener where you water it.

 

It doesn't mean what you had wasn't real or meaningful. It just means that it's time to end it and move on. You will be OK.

[nowaygoingthereagain]

QS, I understand. Thank you. That makes sense.

 

To the forum, I have rationalize and overthinked this to death. I want to know though that we (or maybe me) will be better going forward. I guess there is no way to go back. But the question, I have is "Does true love mean letting go?"

 

I have so much to fix with my W. There is real love and the fantasy I lived in. How do I find the impact of the drug of the affair with my W? Only on occasion we have it. Many times we don't. What can I do to change my attitude?

[nowaygoingthereagain]

jumping on this forum and reading your response QS brought some perspective. I decided to look at some pics of me and my fAP, some of the notes too. How the tone changed for the 8-10 weeks that really defined this A, which lasted entirely too long, towards the remainder of the year, where fthe focus was changing. I tried to see if I had any emotion when I looked at those pics, I did. I really looked happy in that period willing to risk my world and those of my family for this one...

 

...But the fact is that 8-10 week period of emotion went away and it was gone. I look at the times of the day I communicated with her. It could never happen anymore, not in my current world. This current world that God has blessed me with. I went to place, a place I really didn't want to go, and I resurrected with God's love.

 

We'll never go back to the emotions of that 8-10 week period. I hope to never see her for a long time.

 

We never defined love in that period, just took a drug...

 

 

To all OWs, if you are with an MM like, heed this warning; you are wasting your time. As good as the drug feels, God put this obstacle in front of me to find even something greater within me and others, and that is true love.

[nowaygoingthereagain]

And one other thing to the group. Her bday is coming... It was memorable in my life.

 

PLEASE, PLEASE give me all the good reasons why I should just ignore it, not break NC, and not wish her a happy bday. I will be out of town that day anyway. But pls give me all the reasons not to do it...

 

By the way, I can take pretty harsh criticism. I did in the other forum and from others in life.

[Realist3]

What I need help with is no mental NC? What have you done? Is this normal? Does time kill it? Why did she taunt me? Why did I hit so hard?

 

I like to pretend I understand English, but for the life of me I have absolutely no clue what this is supposed to mean.

[rumbleseat]

It sounds very much like you are grieving, but I would ask you to really be honest with yourself about exactly what it is that you are grieving about.

 

Are you grieving the loss of something real, or are you more Grieving the loss of an idea?

 

Why did you have the A in the first place? What is it in you that you are searching for? What emptiness are you trying to fill? It sounds like this wasn't the first go round for either of you, so what is it in the two of you that makes you decide to have A's?

 

It sounds like you really need to ask yourself some hard questions about whether or not marriage is for you, with anyone. You seem to need more attention and validation than you can get from one person, and if you feel this is the case, then I would suggest that you be honest with your W about this. Perhaps the two of you can renegotiate the terms of your marriage so that it is an open M.

 

You do seem to have somewhat of a religious bent in your postings. Have you considered speaking with a priest, minister, pastor or other religious authority who you trust about your concerns and questions?

 

As for contacting you ow, if you are truly committed to your M, then that is a no go. She won't be able to provide the answers you want anyway, as they are already in you. You just have to find them.

[Hope Shimmers]

I concur with the last comment... I had a hard time following and understanding all of these posts. And I am very literate in the English language.

 

PLEASE, PLEASE give me all the good reasons why I should just ignore it, not break NC, and not wish her a happy bday. I will be out of town that day anyway. But pls give me all the reasons not to do it...

 

I don't know. Perhaps maybe your own words (below):

 

"...But the fact is that 8-10 week period of emotion went away and it was gone. I look at the times of the day I communicated with her. It could never happen anymore, not in my current world. This current world that God has blessed me with. I went to place, a place I really didn't want to go, and I resurrected with God's love."

[WakingUp]

Here we go again.

 

 

Its the runaway train terribly poetic dreamer who cant function in the back of the car.

 

 

Interesting to see you back. Do carry on.

 

 

Are we crashing planes, sinking ships or can we progress to failing parachutes this time?

 

 

Love it.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

You are grieving. It was real (in the affair compartment). Don't let anyone tell you it wasn't.

 

However, now she is focusing on her marriage and it sounds like you want to do the same. I would advise you to allow the feelings to come and observe them and allow yourself to walk through it - there is no other way - no going around, no going over or under - only through. It does get better. I think the hole will always be there, but it eventually starts to heal.

 

As far as her birthday - I don't know. I know my xmom's birthday was special to me and to him in many ways. The first year after we went no contact, I sent him a postcard (to his work) just saying I was thinking about him and hoped his year was sweet and complete. The killer was I got no response. When my birthday came a few months later, I so badly wanted to hear something from him - anything - just to know he still thought of me. But nothing came. I think that was the hardest of all. So know if you do reach out, you might not get what you are looking for and it may hurt your even more than you know. Also, it might be opening a wound again for her. As much as I understand why you would want to do it and even know that she might want that, my gut is not to. I think that is probably the biggest form of kindness you can give her.

 

I am sorry for your pain. I really am.

[nowaygoingthereagain]

Lil Miss and others,

 

Thank u for taking the time to respond.

 

Let me first address my rambling. I have so many thoughts and questions regarding what happen and I have not gone through the process of closure with this A and the loss of this A. It is a loss and regardless of how it ended, it hurts me very much. Nonetheless, I have seen gains in other aspects of my life including the relationships within my own family improve and brighten up. Is the risk of even having a friendship worth compromising all that - logically no.

 

Second, yes I am grieving. It was an extremely painful loss. But the pain could be far worse like the loss of my children or my wife who I have invested nearly 20 years with. I struggle daily about not telling my W about the PA, because I fear the unknown. However, I know for sure that will close the door on any thoughts I may have about this A or the OW. Because I will be dealing with a whole other issue there.

 

Third, Lil Miss, you are right about reaching out. Because the dream I had about the OW being my greatest friend and having such strong physical and emotional connections involved really a short period of our A that ended almost a year ago. It will never surface again. It is either lost somewhere in our memory or forever gone. And because of that I have to realize to let go and move on. And do the right thing and really commit to my M. From there we can determine what's truly next with no distractions.

 

I guess I fear that one day, because of all the social media and the closeness of the community we are both part of, that I will see she has a child or a new love (a love she can truly love). I guess at one time I hoped that person was me.

 

Her H always wanted kids and begged for them to get a dog first. She, forever resisted than gave in recently. For years she didn't sleep with him in the same room, again she gave in.

 

...She is gone.

 

I had a dream once about her that we knew our love was forbidden, and we spent years separated but still continuing with our lives and trying to independently achieve the same dream, than one day I saw her and we were both ready to fall in love the right way.

 

I guess I fear letting go of that dream, but it's time to let go.

 

Thanks

 

I thought this one was special, but I guess not. I have a history of getting involved with other women, though I'll admit I never really felt emotionally engaged. I was very vulnerable this time and that stinks because it hurt a lot, so maybe that vulnerability will stick and I never get involved again unt - I hope.

[Lady2163]

I always wince when I read the man's perspective.

 

First off, contacting her on her birthday invites either rejection OR a rekindling of things. If that is truly not what you want, then DON'T do it. Is it worth the risk to you.

 

Affairs take a lot of mental energy. More than what we realize when we are in them.

 

I'm just two weeks out and...uh...my married friend with benefits doesn't know it is over yet. He thinks I have met someone and am dating...before we see each other again, I have to tell him I am monogamous. It's convuluted, I know but it is what will work for both of us.

 

That first week, I just wallowed in my depression. This last week, I was still plenty depressed, but I didn't sleep as much (a frequent escape) and I am kicking ass on some projects that have sat too long. I know it is because my mental thoughts and energy aren't being spent on him and juggling schedules to get together or focusing on how many days until I see him.

 

So the increase in productivity for you isn't a surprise.

 

I can't imagine what it must be like to be married and have an affair that is more than just casual. I can't imagine maintaining the two lives. You were possibly more mentally exhausted than you realize.

 

In time, you will forget. It won't be tomorrow, it won't be next week. One day you will just realize..."hey, I haven't thought about her in...wow, a long time."

 

Be good to yourself during this whole process.

 

Good luck, I'm rooting for you.

[sunburned]

Sorry for your pain, noway. I agree with Lady above, if you reach out for her bday it will invite rejection or possible re-engagement. I don't think you want either. I am a former WW. Letting his b'day, Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc. go by unrecognized was so hard. Still is even after 7 months of NC.

 

Also, I think it's very important you start (or re-start?) counseling. Like it or not, you are a serial cheater and really need to dig in deep with a therapist. Best of luck.

[Rainbowx]

Are you still in love with your wife? I didn't read that anywhere so if it was mentioned sorry

[nowaygoingthereagain]

Rainbow

 

Yes, I love her. Somewhere along the lines I lost attraction for her. For months, I have been trying to rebuild that. I am trying to be more attractive to her too, by being mentally stronger. I can't divulge too much, but my W doesn't share the lifestyle that I have with my fAP. I can't get into it. Plus the fAP put me on such a pedestal in all aspects of my life, she really showed me her best sides as it applied to what I was looking for in a woman. I don't know if it would have continued if we had gotten into a real relationship but it was there.

 

I feel like such an ass for my W. I think about my fAP all the time and I have not given my W a chance to find real love. I can only imagine if we were to separate that the one she would say to me as we are saying goodbye is , 'Now you free, go and and love her (meaning the fAP).

 

Lady and Burned,

Thank you. I wish the best in both your endeavors. This is really tough and it ain't really drama. It's real feelings. I don't wish As on anyone. They suck.

 

As you can see, I don't want rejection or re-engagement. My feeling is if we re-engage, we need to have a really deep conversation if our Ms are really for us and if we need to build a relationship together. We could not just have cake and eat it too. What she wanted until the end was for us to be true to our marriages but also be friends.

 

I tried being friends but I really, really struggled with it. Since I did tell my W about the EA (she is no dummy, she probably knows everything), I could not even see the fAP without causing some conflict in the home. Also, everytime, I reconnected with the fAP (because of our interests and community), she would start off very accomodating, giving me glimpses of that girl I fell in love with for that 8-10 week period than slam she would tell all these great things about her husband and speak about him affectionally, who she used to talk about so condescendingly. Yes, I was extremely jealous and had to hold it in.

 

Her H is not a bad guy, he is a good guy, but she made a decision to marry him when she was somewhat a different person (she admitted it herself). Even though, background and culturally they are a fit, there was so much about them that was a glaring misfit.

 

So I need you help with closure, why would she do this? It is important to me to understand these details in the A so it is clearer to me that it was not meant to be or a great connection. I need to let go of that dream - that is what I am holding onto, because of our interests and friends, we will never stop kinda/sorta somewhat being interwined with one another at least for the next year or two.

 

Can you believe it's been 2 months of NC, almost 10 months of when I call the death of A (we still spent time together, said I love you to each other, but was really starting or trying to let go at that time) and I am still very much struggling with this? Sometimes I wish I knew if she was or not, but I know not to even go there.

 

Burned,

As for me being a serial cheater, u r right. I do plan on going to IC. For work reasons, I have to keep things under wraps but I intend to go again. I can't make any promises to myself about my future actions, but I am trying to remember every bit of what it took to get the hell out of this, trying to rebuild my strength, my dignity, and trying to fall back in love with my W and my family. I am trying so hard to imprint that in my head, heart and whole body so I don't damn forget it again.

[nowaygoingthereagain]

 

We could not just have cake and eat it too. What she wanted until the end was for us to be true to our marriages but also be friends.

 

 

What I meant here is she still wanted the EA, not the PA, but still be 'true.' She kind of admitted it. I tried, but to me she was the one getting all the emotional attention while I got dragged around. She even admitted to being a bad friend. WTH. I am so stupid for staying with it. I don't know if I can say I wish I never met her, but I can say this for sure - I wish I would have jumped on this forum months ago and started NC long time ago.

[Wambo]

Am I the only MM and OM on this forum. Holy smokes!

 

 

No because some of us are enjoying 7+ weeks of NC and making the most of it.

[nowaygoingthereagain]

Wambo,

 

Funny, needed, kinda helps, and slightly so true; but doen't answer the question or bring closure.

 

I think the WS in all ouf us struggle with this, otherwise we would not be here, whether actively participating in our own stories or watching others struggle.

 

It was like my fAP, she used to put up such a good face about the thought of not sharing her dreams and struggles with me anymore as we were entering the weeks and couple of months prior to NC. But it was bullcrap. She would have not reached out to me otherwise, and it was not especially consistent with her behavior during the early months of the A.

 

I could care less about anybody's perception of me on this forum. I just want to leverage this as another tool to achieve closure, whether today or down the road. My hope is people in similar situations can share their perspective based on their experiences.

[Wambo]

Wambo,

 

Funny, needed, kinda helps, and slightly so true; but doen't answer the question or bring closure.

 

I think the WS in all ouf us struggle with this, otherwise we would not be here, whether actively participating in our own stories or watching others struggle.

 

It was like my fAP, she used to put up such a good face about the thought of not sharing her dreams and struggles with me anymore as we were entering the weeks and couple of months prior to NC. But it was bullcrap. She would have not reached out to me otherwise, and it was not especially consistent with her behavior during the early months of the A.

 

I could care less about anybody's perception of me on this forum. I just want to leverage this as another tool to achieve closure, whether today or down the road. My hope is people in similar situations can share their perspective based on their experiences.

 

What's your question? If you are seeking a cure that takes away the horrible pain in a flash, I'm sorry it doesn't exist and you have no other choice but to ride it out.

 

To get to my situation it took me over a year and by that point NC was easier to contend with. It doesn't mean my affair is truly over because the other week I caught my exAP looking at me and the only reason I was able to reach 7 weeks of NC because of holiday and sporting injuries prevented me attending work. If weren't for the fractured wrist I know for a fact my exAP would of easily broke NC AGAIN just to leave the door open.

 

I know for a fact I could easily fall back into the affair and this makes my situation worst. It's bad enough we work in the same building but to add salt to injury we also share a lot of common. In fact we used to be platonic friends with bounderies and in a way it's my fault for not re-enforcing the them. However the way I looked at this is with a big grin on my face. I went through so much to get to this stage and no sane person would throw their achievements away just to get rid of some sexual tension. The only thing I deserve is answers and I know my exAP will not answer them. If she did it will bring a complete closure to the affair and we will go our seperate ways. I would hate her so much for what she did to me and why she did this in the first place. It's enough I would want nothing to do with her and want to live my life without her. What she doesn't know is I already required half the answers through social media and what I had found can be upsetting for her but at the sametime enough for me to what nothing else to do with her.

 

She isn't a truly bad person and sane as it sounds she does have some good intentions towards me. However she used me as an affair and disrepect me by leaving the door open for me.

[Popsicle]

So this woman said she never loved you and just used you? I'm confused.

 

It kind of sounds like she just went back to her marriage.

[nowaygoingthereagain]

Wambo...thanks for ur response. Wish we could grab a beer. Looks like you too continue to need the support to move on, like me. Oh well, consider us two peas in the pod.

 

I kinda got lost towards the end in your story, but no worries, the emotion in you note is similar to mine so I can emphatize.

 

You brought up two good points that are intuitively obvious:

 

1. If I really wanted the answers than I have to ask her. I tried so indirectly so many times, but truth is I never and never will get any answers.

 

2. What question am I trying to answer? If you peel back the onion, it boils down to two things. Initially why did she reject me physically after our PA, even though she brought up our night together several times? Was it guilt? Exposure? I thought she had all these problems with her H. Secondly, why did she reject me emotionally even though she was the one always trying to reach out to me after I got fed up with her crap. Unless, someone can shed some insight to this, I guess I'll never know.

 

And yes Popsicle, we said I love you to each other 4 times in our A. The first time, at the height of our passion with me inside her when I said it and she blurted something that said 'I love you' back. The second time she said it because it look like I was drifiting away. The third time, something bad happen to her, and I texted it and she texted it back. The fourth time, during one of our last conversations, where she was trying to dig into what was wrong with me, why I didn't look so interested anymore, she said she missed me, so I said it and she blurted it back. So I don't know do you call that love? The fact is I was counting, I was jealous. I can't get any answers. So yes to answer your question Posicle or affirm your statement, yes I was definitely believed I was used. Not only to enhance her marriage because I filled such an emotional void due to our lifestyles, but also I validated her in a way.

 

Some would argue I used her too, but it seems like I was the one who got hurt.

 

See A's suck...they're not worth it. Not one f-ing bit.