janedoe67 Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 For any sensitive guys out there (I am, in fact, one of them) Kleenex Brand makes tissues now with built in lotion. As you wipe away the tears it also serves as an incredibly effective moisturizer for dry skin ...... highly recommended. I don't cry often, but when I do, they are second to none ...... keeping my face smooth and wrinkle free. Last Free Tip Guys: You'll live longer, with a much higher degree of happiness, if you avoid unempathetic women. There are ladies in the world, I assure you, who will not abandon a man because he sheds tears sometimes. Just sayin ...... Yes there are women who won't abandon for tears But I dare say none of them would come within 10 miles of a bitter man who despises women. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Bruce Leigh Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Well in my area, men who cried at movies are seen as weak lolz, I don't follow the crowd and join the "alpha" guys though. Better not say that watching "March of the Penguins" made me cry like a baby to anyone then 3 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 I don't think anybody's saying you have to. The thing is that for women reading a thread like this...the message within basically seems to be "men don't get emotional support, we're not allowed to show our feelings and therefore we're more likely to kill ourselves. And it's down to women for not being more supportive and not making it safer for us to discuss our feelings." So although you don't want to wear our emotions on your sleeve, TFY, it's obvious that there are quite a few men out there who are very keen to. So, women talk about trying to make it easier for them to do just that, if that's what they want. However then it's all "ah, but women won't fancy us if get too tearful too often". One minute we're all heartless harpies who won't let men cry and emote. The next we're smothering, infantilising emasculators hell bent on ensuring that men never leave the house without a packet of Kleenex in one hand and a My Little Pony toy in the other. You are the most respected and intelligent poster on this entire forum, but cmon now.. The minute a guy shows any sign of weakness, he is a spineless pussy in the eyes of a woman....Theyll say it on a web forum, but IRL-they want a strong and self assured type that isnt in a therapists office because the milk turned sour. This thread reminds me of one of the many sob story small penis threads on here...All women post that they dont mind(or prefer) a guy with a little pecker, but its not really what THEY want in their man.... As a man whos lived almost half a century, I dunno, Ive never needed an emotional crutch of any kind...I pride myself in being strong in the face of adversity-small or large...Its not macho shyt either...Its a trait that has served me well as a business owner..No one wants or likes a weak leader... A lot of this stems from some sort of sordid idealistic mentality that opposite genders share all the same characteristics...I just dont buy into that and Im not changing for anyone... YMMV TFY Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 That's not really an apples to apples comparison. Showing deep emotion such as love and compassion etc is not a sign of weakness. Loving and caring about your grandparents is not fear or insecurity. The OP is talking more about things like showing fear and insecurity etc. I guarantee you if your husband was getting teary-eyed and expressing worry over gas and electric bill, you would not be feeling a strong loving connection with him. My example did not show fear or insecurity, but it did show emotion and becoming overwhelmed with emotion to the point of crying. Oftentimes, that show of emotion and tears is discouraged in males, and they are told growing up that they should not cry and should not be so emotional. My husband does express worry sometimes over paying the bills. It doesn't make me love him any less. There's nothing wrong with men showing emotions or concerns. I think what women object to is if he is insecure, emotionally or physically weak, fearful or lacking in confidence. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Under The Radar Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Yes there are women who won't abandon for tears But I dare say none of them would come within 10 miles of a bitter man who despises women. Agreed. 10 Characters Link to post Share on other sites
Under The Radar Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Better not say that watching "March of the Penguins" made me cry like a baby to anyone then I hear ya ...... the first 10 minutes of the Pixar movie "UP" always gets me. *UTR puts finger to lips* Shhhhhh, don't tell anyone, either . 1 Link to post Share on other sites
peruano99 Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 I recently saw that animated movie about the brilliant dog and his adopted son and it made me a little bit sad because of the relationship me and my dad never had. He abandoned my mother after his affair and cared more about this OW than me. This is why if I have children in the future, I won't abandon them no matter what happens in my relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
dichotomy Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) I have to agree with OP, Oldshirt, KathyM and others. I have lost ground anytime I shared fears, worries, deep insecurities, or short comings etc.. with a woman who I was involved sexually. Most women are very good at emotional support for men or women, perhaps better then men - just not within a primary sexual relationship with a man. As said this is not expressing sensitivity - I am talking about sharing weaknesses. The challenge of course is for men to find that support structure, that outlet when needed - a father, a brother, best male friend, therapist, or what ever, because we do need it from time to time. I lost my dad two years ago, and it has been a loss for that support system. Edited March 9, 2014 by dichotomy 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Bruce Leigh Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 idealistic mentality that opposite genders share all the same characteristics...I just dont buy into that and Im not changing for anyone...TFY There are exceptions to what you are saying but again, these are exceptions, not the rule. And these men and women who share all of the same characteristics may find themselves not really understood by either gender. Or accepted. Not all do this but it is commonplace. Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 You are the most respected and intelligent poster on this entire forum, but cmon now.. I love it when people precede their disagreement with so much charm! The minute a guy shows any sign of weakness, he is a spineless pussy in the eyes of a woman....Theyll say it on a web forum, but IRL-they want a strong and self assured type that isnt in a therapists office because the milk turned sour. But emotion isn't weakness. It's part of what makes us great as a species. The songs people write, art they produce and the books they write. It's not having emotion that's weak. The weak part is when people never learn to manage their emotions. Hume said that reason is the slave to the passions. We need to be logical in order to make life work for us and as part of preventing emotions from leading us into self destructive ways...but we shouldn't kill our emotions off altogether. Not that you're suggesting we should, but sometimes on this board you see depressed men (and occasionally women too) talking about effectively killing off their emotions because they think they'd be stronger and better off without them. Which seems like the path of no return to a very grey, bleak and unfulfilling world. I'm not recommending somebody go to a therapist because the milk is sour. But, if somebody's entire life feels sour, and if they've decided that the smart thing to do will just be to try to kill off their emotions and spend the rest of their life as a grey person in a grey world, then perhaps it's time to track down a good therapist and explore the alternative of trying to learn to manage their emotions and start getting them to work in a more positive way. It might not work for them, but at least trying has to be better than jumping into the abyss. This thread reminds me of one of the many sob story small penis threads on here...All women post that they dont mind(or prefer) a guy with a little pecker, but its not really what THEY want in their man.... Maybe they'd rather the boyfriend had a couple of extra inches, and maybe the boyfriend would like to see a few physical adjustments in the women. I think "not minding" often means "it's not ideal but it's not a dealbreaker." As a man whos lived almost half a century, I dunno, Ive never needed an emotional crutch of any kind...I pride myself in being strong in the face of adversity-small or large...Its not macho shyt either...Its a trait that has served me well as a business owner..No one wants or likes a weak leader... A lot of this stems from some sort of sordid idealistic mentality that opposite genders share all the same characteristics...I just dont buy into that and Im not changing for anyone... That's great. It makes you a good leader and a positive model for a lot of men. The difficulty is that sometimes people reach a point where the positive models held up for them about what they should try to be stop feeling attainable for them. Being told "here's how you should be in order to be a man" might lead to a downward spiral where they hate or despise themselves for their human fallibilities...and move further and further away from being an effective and positive grown up (and what's a man if not a male child who grew up?) Sometimes people find themselves needing crutches in an emergency situation. If they feel very shamed for doing that, and if that sense of shame holds up the kind of thinking and actions that would help them to get strong enough to throw the crutches away, that's not necessarily helpful. Therapy doesn't need to be about dispensing lots of cuddles and milky drinks. In fact, I really don't think that's what it's supposed to be about. I think it's more about challenging negative thinking patterns and encouraging people to take responsibility for changing them. The goals might not, in essence, be so different from the goal you would have in trying to encourage another man to "be more of a man". It's just that sometimes when people are stuck in a childlike place, there are times they need something a bit more than just a few friendly shoves to get out of it. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
gaius Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 It's not a bad thing that women lie about that. After all, at the end of the day they're responsible for what traits get passed down to the next generation and nobody likes a whiner or cryer. Male or female. If your dumb enough to both be submissive to a woman when she lies to you and display weakness, please, do not pass your genes on. It's for the good of everyone. Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 (edited) I love it when people precede their disagreement with so much charm! But emotion isn't weakness. It's part of what makes us great as a species. The songs people write, art they produce and the books they write. It's not having emotion that's weak. The weak part is when people never learn to manage their emotions. Hume said that reason is the slave to the passions. We need to be logical in order to make life work for us and as part of preventing emotions from leading us into self destructive ways...but we shouldn't kill our emotions off altogether. Not that you're suggesting we should, but sometimes on this board you see depressed men (and occasionally women too) talking about effectively killing off their emotions because they think they'd be stronger and better off without them. Which seems like the path of no return to a very grey, bleak and unfulfilling world. I'm not recommending somebody go to a therapist because the milk is sour. But, if somebody's entire life feels sour, and if they've decided that the smart thing to do will just be to try to kill off their emotions and spend the rest of their life as a grey person in a grey world, then perhaps it's time to track down a good therapist and explore the alternative of trying to learn to manage their emotions and start getting them to work in a more positive way. It might not work for them, but at least trying has to be better than jumping into the abyss. Maybe they'd rather the boyfriend had a couple of extra inches, and maybe the boyfriend would like to see a few physical adjustments in the women. I think "not minding" often means "it's not ideal but it's not a dealbreaker." That's great. It makes you a good leader and a positive model for a lot of men. The difficulty is that sometimes people reach a point where the positive models held up for them about what they should try to be stop feeling attainable for them. Being told "here's how you should be in order to be a man" might lead to a downward spiral where they hate or despise themselves for their human fallibilities...and move further and further away from being an effective and positive grown up (and what's a man if not a male child who grew up?) Sometimes people find themselves needing crutches in an emergency situation. If they feel very shamed for doing that, and if that sense of shame holds up the kind of thinking and actions that would help them to get strong enough to throw the crutches away, that's not necessarily helpful. Therapy doesn't need to be about dispensing lots of cuddles and milky drinks. In fact, I really don't think that's what it's supposed to be about. I think it's more about challenging negative thinking patterns and encouraging people to take responsibility for changing them. The goals might not, in essence, be so different from the goal you would have in trying to encourage another man to "be more of a man". It's just that sometimes when people are stuck in a childlike place, there are times they need something a bit more than just a few friendly shoves to get out of it. Its hard to argue with such rational and logical thinking...I feel like I have a dull butter knife in a gunfight when I discuss a topic with you... Anyway, I suppose a lot of this thinking on my part stems from the fact that I employ mostly men..Im around these guys all day..I just simply cannot believe how some of these so called "guys" act..They depend on their wives/gf's for everything, they are always broke(despite making what some would call some pretty serious money) and they just act like little friggin boys... But I dont want to veer off the topic.. I hear what you are saying..Its OK for men to reveal their sensitive side..To be able to lean on a family member or SO..I have dealt with some adversity and sadness in my life, always thinking that its not a "manly" thing to crumble and cry on someones shoulder I did so in silence and got over it as quickly as I could...The thought of that just makes me shudder...I attibute most of that behavior to having a very tough Italian mother that really wasnt a coddler...She's the type of woman that if I showed her a broken arm as a little kid, she'd tell me to quit crying and be glad its not your leg.. TFY Edited March 9, 2014 by thefooloftheyear 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 I have to agree with OP, Oldshirt, KathyM and others. I have lost ground anytime I shared fears, worries, deep insecurities, or short comings etc.. with a woman who I was involved sexually. Most women are very good at emotional support for men or women, perhaps better then men - just not within a primary sexual relationship with a man. As said this is not expressing sensitivity - I am talking about sharing weaknesses. The challenge of course is for men to find that support structure, that outlet when needed - a father, a brother, best male friend, therapist, or what ever, because we do need it from time to time. I lost my dad two years ago, and it has been a loss for that support system. I've read this a number of times on LS, I think Woggle had similar threads in the past. My conclusion is - after experiencing something similar from an ex recently - is that it's how you express it and how often, not the question of expressing it at all. I think men are not good at seeking emotional support because they don't do it often. They aren't socialised to do it often. With 100% honesty, I do desire seeing his weaker more 'human' side but it matters how he handles controversy. So it's not that he is anxious or fears something, I like the fact that he trusts me enough to share it, I just have to see that he is working on fixing it, dealing with the issue, trying to find the underlying cause. That he is facing it. The biggest turn off in men and women are those that just want to complain and whinge, invite you to a pity party but have absolutely no desire to get themselves out of the situation. That is indeed a huge turnoff. We all despair sometimes and don't always see the way out but you know when a person just needs a brief moment to recharge and that he is dealing with it. When I see that, my respect in fact grows for him. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
joystickd Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 With 100% honesty, I do desire seeing his weaker more 'human' side but it matters how he handles controversy. So it's not that he is anxious or fears something, I like the fact that he trusts me enough to share it, I just have to see that he is working on fixing it, dealing with the issue, trying to find the underlying cause. That he is facing it. What about when you show that side and show that you are dealing with the issue and facing it but still seen as weak? Men and the emotional side and how to show it is in a sense like women and giving their physical side. If you reveal too much you are weak if you don't reveal enough it's a problem. Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 What about when you show that side and show that you are dealing with the issue and facing it but still seen as weak? Men and the emotional side and how to show it is in a sense like women and giving their physical side. If you reveal too much you are weak if you don't reveal enough it's a problem. You aren't weak if you are dealing with it. Weakness is not facing what is in front of you. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 I also think it takes a certain kind of confidence to admit that you are struggling with something. Especially to a person you are trying to impress. My ex came to me at work because he screwed up a project big time. He just needed to get it off his chest and he isn't a complainer. He despaired because he didn't know how he could prevent it happening again in the future (it's to do with programming) and that scared him. So we had a whispered conversation about it, I made a couple of suggestions as an outsider with far less experience than his, he took some of the advice and bounced back because he found the solution. He grew in my eyes for sure, partly for admitting he made a huge mistake and partly for not crumbling but fixing it. He was under a lot of pressure for several days. Link to post Share on other sites
gaius Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 I also think it takes a certain kind of confidence to admit that you are struggling with something. Especially to a person you are trying to impress. My ex came to me at work because he screwed up a project big time. He just needed to get it off his chest and he isn't a complainer. He despaired because he didn't know how he could prevent it happening again in the future (it's to do with programming) and that scared him. So we had a whispered conversation about it, I made a couple of suggestions as an outsider with far less experience than his, he took some of the advice and bounced back because he found the solution. He grew in my eyes for sure, partly for admitting he made a huge mistake and partly for not crumbling but fixing it. He was under a lot of pressure for several days. I'm guessing you were the dumper in that situation. Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 I'm guessing you were the dumper in that situation. I see what you are getting at. It was on/off for a while and took turns at 'dumping'. So close, but no cigar In fact, I walked away because I started catching feelings and I knew he wasn't on the same page. Link to post Share on other sites
gaius Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 I see what you are getting at. It was on/off for a while and took turns at 'dumping'. So close, but no cigar In fact, I walked away because I started catching feelings and I knew he wasn't on the same page. So because you got more attached to him you felt you had to break up with him? Most women I know don't have that kind of self control with a guy they really like on a primal level. Especially one they have to be around because they work together. Something tells me if he had told you about the problem, given you a confident grin and vanquished it on his own you might not have had so much self control. Link to post Share on other sites
janedoe67 Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Bottom line? You can't fit ALL women in the same box on this...no matter how much you want it to fit your jaded paradigm. 7 Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 So because you got more attached to him you felt you had to break up with him? Most women I know don't have that kind of self control with a guy they really like on a primal level. Especially one they have to be around because they work together. Correct. I'm not most women What I'm trying to tell you is that not all women think or feel the same way. Many of us do recognise the difficulties men face when it comes to dealing with their issues (that everyone has) and the challenges of not looking vulnerable. Something tells me if he had told you about the problem, given you a confident grin and vanquished it on his own you might not have had so much self control. You mean if he had not told me about the problem? You would be wrong. He did this on purpose, he knows me well enough to realise this. He knows that sharing makes a bond stronger, if it's the kind of sharing that both people appreciate. Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Bottom line? You can't fit ALL women in the same box on this...no matter how much you want it to fit your jaded paradigm. ^^^ Exactly. Link to post Share on other sites
peruano99 Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 There are bad women and there are good women out there. I particularly don't associate with the women who go to bars to just "have fun", while their boyfriends are stationed someplace fighting for our country. I see lots of military wives doing that... But then, there are the good women who are shy and all around good person. Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 There are bad women and there are good women out there. I particularly don't associate with the women who go to bars to just "have fun", while their boyfriends are stationed someplace fighting for our country. I see lots of military wives doing that... If they didn't get married at the age of 19 or 21 after briefly knowing the person, that problem would be solved. Link to post Share on other sites
peruano99 Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Yes a lot of young people get married after like 2-3 months of dating. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts