Should I be angry?

[Ladyjane14]

Not every marriage is of the same traditional model. These folks have only been married for a couple of years. They are probably still setting the parameters of the marital relationship, not without some bumps along the way to be sure.

 

I don't see how dice974 will help his situation by assuming THE WORST, and laying-down-the-law.

 

He can and should express his concerns in a manner that is consistant with the Big Picture. The health of the relationship should come first. That doesn't mean you don't address the differences of opinion. It just means that you do so in a manner which will enlighten and build closeness.

 

What can really be accomplished when one engages in a disagreement from an adversarial position?

 

No matter what the marriage model is, the goal is still partnership.

[michelangelo]

So he asks her to wait, a week later she leaves without notice to her husband, then no calls while there.

 

I suppose he's supposed to assume she's in meditation on the sand and not barhopping with her friend?

 

Ladyjane, have you been or are you married?

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by michelangelo

Ladyjane, have you been or are you married?

 

I've been married to the same man for 22 years now. He's a little high-maintenance, and there have been a few bumps in the road over the last two and a half DECADES, but we're currently happier than we've ever been. Thanks for asking.

 

This subject seems to be bringing up some sore points for you,btw. Why is that? I'm genuinely curious.

[michelangelo]

Learned from my own sad personal experience: women that go defiantly out the front door don't end that defiance as they slam the door. Be it to go clubbing with the girls (euphanism for dancing or more with other men while drunk) or on an exotic vacation where said activity can be done 24/7 with nobody looking over their shoulder.

 

One of the best arguments they use to themself and to their spouse is that they are JUST going with the best girlfriends, how dare you think otherwise!

 

What really happens is they sit around bashing their husbands (or if they don't have one, urge them to live it up, you're free of the jerk tonight/this week!

 

Then they get drunk, then some smoothy asks them to dance, they get turned on, and so forth and end up in the sack.

 

They either fool themself that the ultimate end is not what they want, yet they always do end up in the sack.

 

Some when they get home are horrified at what they've done, others are panicked that their spouse will find out, still otherrs don't care one way or the other.

 

BTW, been married since 1980. Been a lot of bumps along the way for us too. She's cheated multiple times, admitted twice.

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by michelangelo

What really happens is they sit around bashing their husbands (or if they don't have one, urge them to live it up, you're free of the jerk tonight/this week!

 

Then they get drunk, then some smoothy asks them to dance, they get turned on, and so forth and end up in the sack.

 

They either fool themself that the ultimate end is not what they want, yet they always do end up in the sack.

 

I'm feeling a little ripped off here. Nobody told me that I was supposed to "end up in the sack" whenever I went out with my girlfriends.

 

Sheesh, you'd think in 22 years somebody would've clued me in!

 

 

All kidding aside, I can certainly understand how an experience like that would make someone very wary. It was really rotten of your wife to have treated you that way, but that doesn't mean all women act like that when they're out with friends. I know I don't, and I can't believe I'm the exception to the rule.

 

Not all men behave that way either.

 

While it's true that a 'girl's night out' can involve some man-bashing, it's usually just bantering and not to be taken seriously.

 

I hope this bad experience won't color your opinion of all women. That would be allowing a greater disservice done to you than any amount of infidelity could have ever done.

[Owl]

I've got to say that I have to side a little more along the lines of Michelangelo here. LadyJane, you made a great observation about the lack of communication that this couple seems to have. And there is a huge lack of mutual respect for each other as well.

 

Let's reverse this...Dice...how would SHE feel if you just up and left for a week, no calls, nada? Have you ASKED her that? When you two have talked, have either of you LISTENED to the other?

 

If my wife suddenly took off for a week, no calls, nothing, you can absolutely bet that I'd not be there for her when she came back. And I would not CONSIDER doing that to my wife either. It's selfish, it's disrespectful, and it's totally NOT within the bounds of a healthy marriage. Add to that where/and with who she's going...hell yeah he's got reason to be upset!!!

 

I work in a corporate environment...I know how stressful it is. I've NEVER taken a vacation without my wife, or at LEAST my wife's knowing consent (sorry, took a two day trip with another guy to a local ren fest one time two years ago...called her at LEAST 4-5 times during that time...oh, and wanted her to go, but she wasn't interested). This whole "girls nite out thing" might fly for an occasional evening, but there is NO WAY it should be allowed to become such a huge issue in the marriage...if it bothers him that much, she should respect him and work something out! And a week in Cancun girls thing with someone who's an acknowledged swinger??? No way...

[Ladyjane14]

I'm not saying that these aren't important issues for Dice and his wife to work out between them. All I'm saying is that all this circumstancial evidence doesn't necessarily mean she's screwing somebody else.

[michelangelo]

Ladyjane, you missed the very first paragraph of my posting:

 

Learned from my own sad personal experience: women that go defiantly out the front door don't end that defiance as they slam the door. Be it to go clubbing with the girls (euphanism for dancing or more with other men while drunk) or on an exotic vacation where said activity can be done 24/7 with nobody looking over their shoulder.

 

I don't believe all women do this. I'm referring to the defiant ones (with no apparent reason for that defiance). they are out to wreak havoc.

[Owl]

Totally granted LadyJ...but given what all we've seen in these posts, I'd honestly worry if I were him that it would only be a matter of time if something doesn't change.

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by michelangelo

I don't believe all women do this. I'm referring to the defiant ones (with no apparent reason for that defiance). they are out to wreak havoc.

 

I myself have gone out the door, partying with my girlfriends in an EXTREME state of defiance. Still didn't cheat on my hubby.

 

I would say that defiance is most likely stemming from a desire to throw off perceived controls. Note that I said perceived. I'm NOT accusing all men of controlling behavior.

 

From a woman's point of view...and let's face it guys, you can't have a woman's pov unless your dingle drops off... Control by a man is a pretty big issue. Many women today want partnership in marriage. The ultra-traditional marriage model doesn't work for all of us.

 

This can be such a sensitive topic that a man who really isn't exhibiting any controlling behavior whatsoever can still face problems over it. It's like a bomb just ticking away needing to be de-fused before the real problems can even be addressed.

 

The fact that Dice's wife has a son by a previous relationship means that she obviously had relationships before her current marriage with him. This could be a matter of leftover emotional baggage for all we know.

 

She could have popularity issues, or low self-esteem from not being the prom queen in high school. She could have a neurotic disorder. We don't know.

 

I'm just thinking that if we project our own fears and bad experiences off onto this poster... help him get his drawers all up in a bunch...then send him toddling off home, beating on his big hairy man-chest while giving his best rendition of Ralph Kramden, I am the King of this Castle, Alice...to an already defiant-for-whatever-reason woman....{painful wince}

 

That just can't turn out good fellas.

 

Dice's issues are important and they need to be addressed, and he really does have a legitimate grievance in my opinion. But I think he can do all that without exacerbating the situation. This doesn't have to be a fight.

[michelangelo]

Nobody is telling him to have a "to the Moon!" moment ala jackie gleason.

 

But knowing as you do this perceived control issue many women have and the destructive behavior that shakes out as a result of it, then he has to speak up to her and air his concerns.

 

Of course 100% of any gender doesn't do what i commented will happen.

 

That doesn't invalidate the very real likelihood it is happening in this case.

 

and as for partnership in a marriage?

 

Men want that too. it usually doesn't involve spouses running off to the tropics raising hell--or even running off to the tropics and giving a spouse the perception of raising hell.

[tanbark813]

Originally posted by Ladyjane14

 

From a woman's point of view...and let's face it guys, you can't have a woman's pov unless your dingle drops off... Control by a man is a pretty big issue. Many women today want partnership in marriage. The ultra-traditional marriage model doesn't work for all of us.

 

This can be such a sensitive topic that a man who really isn't exhibiting any controlling behavior whatsoever can still face problems over it. It's like a bomb just ticking away needing to be de-fused before the real problems can even be addressed.

 

This was a big problem in my last relationship. Or, at the very least, it was a nice little PC excuse my ex used to justify her behavior. But regardless of that, if a woman has control issues and is upset with her man, that's fine. She has every right to feel angry about whatever. BUT, that does not give her the right to go off and cheat and then b!tch and moan about how she was driven to it.

 

It's one thing to feel defiant. Quite another to act upon it. The question here is which category the OP's wife falls into.

[Lil Honey]

Dice:

 

So what happens if there is an accident and her son is hurt or worse? Did you adopt him? Do you have the legal authority to authorize medical treatment?

 

I think she is HIGHLY disrepectful to you and HIGHLY irresponsible as a mother . . .

 

Lil Honey

[dice974]

No I haven't adopted him (he is 15). I asked the same thing. She just figured I would take care of it I guess. His name is on the medical card.

[katie79]

dice.

maybe she's going through a phase where she wants to go out and have a fun time with friends.

 

I can understand your upset though.

Talk to her about it, otherwise, this eat away at you.

 

Not to sound mean, but men do this to their wives/gf's all the time. they always pick having a beer with the guys over spending time with their lady. Are you sure perhaps you never went through a phase like this?

 

My fiance would leave me sitting at home many weekends so he can go to concerts. He would invite me, but I'm not a concert gal really. THis was during the courting period of our relationship. I was also going through a dry spell as far as having friends went.

 

A few years later, now that I have a few close girlfriends to go out with, there have been time periods where I would pick going out with them over spending time with my man. Firstly, I felt as though I *missed out* on a great deal of fun, and lastly, I also kind of felt like he had no hesistation leaving me sitting at home on a Sat night, serveral weeks in a row, why should I care? Go out and have fun before I'm too old.

 

DOn't take this personally. Think you lady just wants to have fun and maybe make up for lost time or something. Def tell her, she probably doesn't notice that this is effecting your relationship

[michelangelo]

Difference is they are MARRIED, not single folks.

 

This implies a whole nuther level of respect and commitment that her getting her freak on in Cancun does not.

[Owl]

And there's a world of difference in going out with some friends for some fun, and going to Cancun for a week without your spouse's agreement.

 

I love it when my wife goes out with her friends. It doesn't happen as much as I'd like. Seriously...because the friends she has/had were ladies that I trusted her with, and the things that they were doing were totally appropriate. She'd come home happy and fired up and talking about what they'd done...how can a guy complain about having a happy wife?

 

She's gotten back into doing some of the things she used to do before she had the affair...and I'm hoping that she takes advantage of it and starts going to meet with some of the ladies involved in the groups around here. Again, she lets me know where she's going and what she's doing, with a good idea of when she'll be back. And on the rare occasions when I spend time with one of my guy friends, she gets the EXACT same kind of information back. It's a two way street. It's not being controlling...if it was, why would I set the same kind of expectations on myself?? It's about being responsible and accountable to each other.

 

Hanging out with your friends once in a while is one thing. Hanging out with someone who has a different set of morals and values, and doing so in complete defiance of your spouse's desire is another. If I had a friend that she didn't trust me with...I wouldn't spend time with him. Because it's not fair to HER. I'd expect the same treatment back.

 

Taking a week long trip to the tropics and leaving your spouse behind, KNOWING that they didn't approve of who you were with and that they didn't want you to go is something completely different. I wouldn't take that as a red flag...I'd take that as a warning shot across the bow.

 

You and your wife seriously need to get some counseling to work out how you both make decisions. This WAS a warning shot across your bow...this should be screaming to you that your marriage in some SERIOUS jeopardy...RIGHT NOW. (I'm not saying that she is cheating on him...I'm not saying that she did or will while she's in the tropics...thought it could happen. What I AM saying is that she's NOT acting as a partner is this marriage...and that this is a clear indicator that if they don't fix things soon, their marriage is in some serious hot water.)

[emopunk]

Hell, I'd be angry in your position. Fiance comes first for me... and I know the same is true for her. Part of the sacrifice involved in a relationship.