Always a friend, never a lover.

[John]

I am in my late 30's and have had this same problem since I was a teenager. It seems like all the women I like, think I would make a great husband/boyfriend, but for SOMEONE ELSE, not them. They never seem to have a good explanation, other than "chemistry" (but they can't explain WHY there is no chemistry). I am a successful professional with a college degree and a full time job. I own my own home in a nice neighborhood. I've been told I am good looking, smart and funny. I am healthy and work out a couple of times a week. I am sensitive and caring, without being a needy wimp. But no one wants to be in a romantic relationship with me. I've never been married or engaged; the closest I came, was when an friend from college (I hadn't seen her in 4 years) called and asked, but she didn't really want to be married, her student visa was about to expire.

 

As I get older, it only becomes more difficult to deal with. EVERY time I get rejected it hurts more and takes me longer to get over it and start looking again. I can honestly say that I would rather be beaten about the head with a baseball bat then have to hear the "just friends" speech again. I feel like I have a horrible disfigurement that no one will tell me about.

 

PLEASE don't tell me to get counseling, I've tried and found it expensive, time consuming, and not helpful at all.

 

I am at wits end and don't know what to do. How do I get "chemistry"?

 

Thanks for letting me vent.

 

John

[Tony T]

You get chemistry by not being so nice, sweet and available to these chicks. You get chemistry by not listening to all their problems and by telling them you do not want to hear about other guys or their past relationships. You get chemistry by being unpredictable, not calling them predictably, not being too eager, being aloof...being a challenge.

 

I could just read it between the lines. You go out of your way to listen to these ladies tell you whatever they want, to take them wherever they want to go, to do whatever they want to do. You also have a lot of fear of relationships because you don't feel quite equal to the task of pulling one off. But you just have to play it by ear. Be confident and just don't care if you don't pull it off right.

 

To be in a romance you have to go for it. Women want to be in a romance with a MAN, one who doesn't give in to their every whim, one who is confident and who she knows can live with her or without her. Women want you to make a pass at them, even one ever so slight, at least by the second or third date. You have to reach for and hold their hand.

 

You just can't act like or be a platonic friend or you will stay the same as you have all this time. I promise you if you just act like you could care less, don't be so nice, don't call them so frequently, don't try to solve their every problem, who can have almost any lady you want.

 

If you start dating one and it seems like another of these friendship deals, just don't call her anymore PERIOD. You've got enough friends.

 

Be nice but just don't go over the line. It may take you a little while to learn where that line is but you will.

 

Even if you stay the same, there's a perfect person for everybody. You'll meet her in good time.

 

There are some very excellent dating services on the Internet and a lot of relationships and marriages have resulted. America Online: Keyword: photo personals is one. Many of the search engines like Netscape and Lycos have them. These are free. You can get a ten day free trial at www.match.com Or just use a search engine and enter: "dating" You may be quite surprised how easy it will be to find your perfect match(es).

 

Invite us to the wedding.

[Tryst]

You get chemistry by not being so nice, sweet

and available to these chicks. You get chemistry by not listening to all their problems and by telling them you do not want to hear about other guys or their past relationships. You get chemistry by being unpredictable, not calling them predictably, not being too eager, being aloof...being a challenge.

Been there, done that and just got the bitches. I have tried many times to be the nice guy and then to be the opposite. It seems that women are attracted to the bad guys and that the real b*****ds always have women around them.

 

Acting aloof has its advantages but attracts the women you *don't* want. Those are the bitches that do everything in their power to hurt you and stab you in the back at the first opportunity. Tell you they really do love you so you come back for them to twist the knife a bit more.

 

Yes, I've heard the "let's just be friends" speech so many times that I can recite it word for word myself. I am mr nice guy by nature, 41 years old and can only act the b****d but can never go through with it when my bluff is called. There are many big soft hearted guys like us and we are merely targets for women who want to exploit our soft nature. There are many who get their kicks out of the feeling of power over us.

 

How well can you bottle your feelings? You have to learn to do it just to survive. It's hard to be a machine but it's better than getting hurt time after time. I agree with the challenge though. Act like you don't feel a thing for her and if you can be a machine, it helps. She will do her utmost to make you love her and she will reel herself in faster than you ever could.

[Tony T]

If you're really an incurable nice guy, then look outside the United States to other cultures. There are actually some Eastern, European and South American countries where the majority of women hold nice guys in great esteem.

 

Hey, there's somebody for everybody but nobody ever said they had to live close by.

 

There are millions of ways to meet them, through cultural organizations in your area, over the Internet, dating services, etc. Or why not take an extended vacation to some exotic place you may enjoy?

 

There are many American women who treasure nice guys, but they don't want them too much like that right off the bat. They want to feel they have tamed their wild creatures.

[Dragonflys]

Oh Yes

 

I have heard the 'you are such a great guy and I really treasure your friendship but the 'spark isn't there spiel'

 

But I look back and I realise that whenever I met a woman I was attracted to, often I would try and get to know everything about them, help them with their problems, give them emotional input etc. I thought this was the right way to develop a relationship with them.

 

But I was selling myself out

 

After the last friendship spiel I was handed mid last year I realised I had to change my approach. I have learned a lot from Tony and others at this board, and from my own personal experience.

 

Here's what I learned.....

 

(1) women want a man that can ADD to their lives, rather than hop into it. In the latter case they become a burden (think about this carefully)

 

(a) do not spill out emotional matters too early - this does not ADD anything, we all have baggage

 

(b) being aloof shows confidence and independance (hence you have a full lifestyle to ADD to theirs)

 

(2) flattery goes a long way - this shows respect for the way they look (and believe me women value the way they look VERY highly).

 

(3) learn to listen attentively as well as talk. This shows respect for their intelligence.

 

I haven't met the woman of my dreams yet, but recent dating activity shows I must be on the right track.

[John]

Yea Yea, I know about "playing it cool" and not being "too nice" etc. etc. etc. I've tried that approach too. My experience has been as Tryst said: "Acting aloof has its advantages but attracts the women you *don't* want."

 

I was really hoping to get some women's perspectives on the issue. Any of you ladies reading this? What do you think?

 

John

I am in my late 30's and have had this same problem since I was a teenager. It seems like all the women I like, think I would make a great husband/boyfriend, but for SOMEONE ELSE, not them. They never seem to have a good explanation, other than "chemistry" (but they can't explain WHY there is no chemistry). I am a successful professional with a college degree and a full time job. I own my own home in a nice neighborhood. I've been told I am good looking, smart and funny. I am healthy and work out a couple of times a week. I am sensitive and caring, without being a needy wimp. But no one wants to be in a romantic relationship with me. I've never been married or engaged; the closest I came, was when an friend from college (I hadn't seen her in 4 years) called and asked, but she didn't really want to be married, her student visa was about to expire. As I get older, it only becomes more difficult to deal with. EVERY time I get rejected it hurts more and takes me longer to get over it and start looking again. I can honestly say that I would rather be beaten about the head with a baseball bat then have to hear the "just friends" speech again. I feel like I have a horrible disfigurement that no one will tell me about. PLEASE don't tell me to get counseling, I've tried and found it expensive, time consuming, and not helpful at all. I am at wits end and don't know what to do. How do I get "chemistry"? Thanks for letting me vent. John

[WGirl]

Relationships are tough. I am in my late twenties and seem to attract the wrong men. I either attract complete losers(stalkers, addicted to drugs, womanizers, totally irresponsible) which I don't understand because people tell me I am attractive, funny, kind, clever, responsible. I attract men I don't have much interest in or that lovely thing you were talking about no "chemistry". I am doing something wrong but I am not sure what. The men I am interested in either never ask me out or they play head games with me once they find out I am interested.(pretend they're interested) It seems the more interested I am in a man, the less interested they are in me. Then, if I play hard to get, sometimes guys think I'm not interested. I get the same thing, "don't be too nice", "play it cool", "let the man do the chasing". I give up. I have accepted the fact that I may never meet the "one". I keep trying to tell my mother and other people that. They say, "you have plenty of time." Okay, I believed that when I was 15, 18, 21 and even 25. Now I am getting closer to thiry. Hello! I am not even necessarily looking to get married. I am looking for someone to have a long-term relationship with.

 

The course of my relationships go like this: I meet someone, we go out a few times, we seem to be compatible with a few flaws, I get my hopes up and think, "maybe this time it will last"--nope. Then those little flaws become big flaws, we start arguing or he stops calling which ever comes first, the relationship ends. Then the cycle starts all over. In the beginning I just thought it was bad luck. This won't keep happening but it does. It is just too exhausting to keep trying sometimes. I can feel the relationship ending before it begins. I don't want get too attached because I don't think it will last.

 

I agree with you about the counseling. I went for different reasons--it didn't really help me. I feel like it didn't. Maybe it did in subtle or subconscious ways that I am not aware of. In some ways, I actually think it made me feel worse because it brings so many memories. Some of which I think are better off left alone. Let sleeping dogs lie.

 

Anyways, good luck to you and your situation. I guess I did a little venting of my own.

Yea Yea, I know about "playing it cool" and not being "too nice" etc. etc. etc. I've tried that approach too. My experience has been as Tryst said: "Acting aloof has its advantages but attracts the women you *don't* want." I was really hoping to get some women's perspectives on the issue. Any of you ladies reading this? What do you think? John

[Tryst]

(1) women want a man that can ADD to their lives, rather than hop into it. In the latter case they become a burden (think about this carefully)

 

(a) do not spill out emotional matters too early - this does not ADD anything, we all have baggage

 

(b) being aloof shows confidence and independance (hence you have a full lifestyle to ADD to theirs)

 

(2) flattery goes a long way - this shows respect for the way they look (and believe me women value the way they look VERY highly).

Although I agree on the points above, some moderation is required.

 

(1a) Emotional matters give clues as to how they need to approach you, what attracts and what repels you.

 

(1b) There's being aloof and being cold, it's a fine line and many good relationships have failed because the line was crossed.

 

(2) Too much flattery negates itself. It becomes something that is said because it was required and not because it was meant.

(3) learn to listen attentively as well as talk. This shows respect for their intelligence.

And about time someone thought about this, good on you Oliver. I've always treated people with this kind of respect, whether girlfriends or people I meet in daily life.

 

If I may be so bold as to add a couple more though.

 

(4) Don't put them down for any reason. We can all find faults in others but treat it as something that makes us different instead of something that should be changed.

 

(5) Be interesting and unpredictable (that doesn't mean unreliable). Do things off the cuff rather than making elaborate arrangements. Take her out for a drink after work but don't tell her until you get home. Remember that Mr predictable soon becomes Mr boring.

I haven't met the woman of my dreams yet, but recent dating activity shows I must be on the right track.

I agree with Tony that there's someone for everyone, it's all a matter of finding them.

 

But one almighty DO NOT is trying to be something you can't be. Be yourself because a false facade is so easily misunderstood, I made that mistake myself and I am still paying the cost now. I have to win back her love because the trust she had for me has been crushed.

[Tryst]

Relationships are tough. I am in my late

twenties and seem to attract the wrong men. I either attract complete losers(stalkers, addicted to drugs, womanizers, totally irresponsible) which I don't understand because people tell me I am attractive, funny, kind, clever, responsible. I attract men I don't have much interest in or that lovely thing you were talking about no "chemistry". I am doing something wrong but I am not sure what. The men I am interested in either never ask me out or they play head games with me once they find out I am interested.(pretend they're interested) It seems the more interested I am in a man, the less interested they are in me. Then, if I play hard to get, sometimes guys think I'm not interested. I get the same thing, "don't be too nice", "play it cool", "let the man do the chasing". I give up. I have accepted the fact that I may never meet the "one". I keep trying to tell my mother and other people that. They say, "you have plenty of time." Okay, I believed that when I was 15, 18, 21 and even 25. Now I am getting closer to thiry. Hello! I am not even necessarily looking to get married. I am looking for someone to have a long-term relationship with.

To sum it up in one word 'Challenge'. You see the one you want and subconsciously think you can change them. It's no good, nobody is going to change that dramatically. Drug users and womanizers see you as an easy target a) for money to feed their habit or b) you become too involved and love them too much to walk out.

 

To begin with, maybe you should think of going to other places where you might meet different types of guys. From my experience, I find that types are usually found in groups. For example, I won't go in a bar where the drinks have more intelligence than those who are drinking them. In the UK, we call them "Lager louts" who drink, fight, abuse their women, throw up and then believe they've had a good night out. Loud guys are not necessarily the best ones, try going for the quiet ones who stay in the corners out of the way. Who knows, you might see me sitting in the corner one day.

 

Try a friends approach. Treat them as friends but don't show any interest at all until you know them. Don't lead them on, just introduce them to your other friends and arrange for a night out as a group with your brother, friend and another male. Make sure there are more men than women so it doesn't look like a date. Dress down slightly for the occasion, don't dress like you are "on the pull". If he's genuine, he won't care how you dress so long as you are there with him. Depending on whether you like what you see or not after a few nights out like that, they remain just friends or you start to show interest in him.

 

This is from a faithful, soft hearted mans point of view. I hope it helps.

I agree with you about the counseling. I went for different reasons--it didn't really help me. I feel like it didn't. Maybe it did in subtle or subconscious ways that I am not aware of. In some ways, I actually think it made me feel worse because it brings so many memories. Some of which I think are better off left alone. Let sleeping dogs lie.

Sometimes past memories should be kept for experience value alone and not to be lived over and over. Counselling works for some and not for others, it looks like you are one of those it doesn't work for. Maybe you'd be better off talking to a friend who has found herself a good man.