is there such a thing as "only good enough for sex but not for dating"?

[Ninjainpajamas]

So there I conclude I am not that good to date but only good enough to F**k

 

Yes, to these men...it's unfortunate you just learned this now, could've saved yourself a lot of confusion.

[ktya]

OP,

 

Different angle here from a guys perspective.

 

For one you say you are single forever. Then you say you are afraid you will be alone if you turn guys down for sex. The whole presumption of your post is you are afraid you are only landing "dates" with guys who want sex and not relationships.

 

Guys tend to test the water. Hate to admit it but the number one reason a guy will go exclusive (and lose his power of choice) is because he feels comfortable that he will retain his ability to get frequent sex. No sex, or your resistance to sex, or possibly your making sex such a difficult thing to attain could be, in a sad way, the reason the guys no longer want to date you and balk at the idea of being exclusive. They are afraid that if they go on dates they will not get sex and if thry go exclusive they will be stuck going on dates that do not lead to sex while limiting their options that they had before.

 

One way you might be able to avoid this is open, honest communication, about what you are looking for in a relationship and also about sex. If you tell the guy you are looking for a solid boyfriend on the first date and say you will only have sex once the relationship is exclusive you may find more guys willing to jump through that set of hoops. If you play coy with the sex and the guy doesnt know where the goalpost is he may just walk because theres a less confusing dame to deal with.

 

Also todays dating world is weird. Just 10 years ago it seemed all girls were looking for a relationship and were willing to make sacrifices to get into one. Now it seems most girls are open to hookups and fwb, and are seeking impossible perfection in a real relationship partner. This means for guys, committment free sex has never been easier to get (thank feminism for that ladies baha).

 

So in landing a boyfriend material your fellow sisters are making your old school game (which i respect) very hard to play. I wouldnt recommend following some posters advice to hold back on the sex. You could land a sweet, charming, ugly and truly desperate man by stringing him along like that, but any self confident guy worth catching has already got 3-5 phone numbers to call to get some action, and probably make that call within 5 minutes of the end of your date when you hold out like that.

[RDawg]

I'm not fat and ugly and only go for models so reality is much more complicated than that because whether I'm pretty or average it depends on how other people perceive me.I cant really be the judge?.

 

You only go for models? Maybe that's your problem right there.

[RedRobin]

You could land a sweet, charming, ugly and truly desperate man by stringing him along like that, but any self confident guy worth catching has already got 3-5 phone numbers to call to get some action, and probably make that call within 5 minutes of the end of your date when you hold out like that.

 

 

Wrong.

 

 

Men who have something to lose and have half a brain don't act like irresponsible little boys who get their rocks off with strangers.

 

 

If the guys you are talking about have all those 'options' then fine. Let some other woman be the booty call. Works for me.

 

 

Frankly, I'd rather scrape paint. Those guys would suck in bed anyway. Too selfish.

[somedude81]

As it's been said a few times already, the guys that are very good looking, do very well with women and are having too much fun sleeping with lots of different women to bother with being exclusive to one.

[AntiSocal]

Wrong.

 

 

Men who have something to lose and have half a brain don't act like irresponsible little boys who get their rocks off with strangers.

 

 

If the guys you are talking about have all those 'options' then fine. Let some other woman be the booty call. Works for me.

 

 

Frankly, I'd rather scrape paint. Those guys would suck in bed anyway. Too selfish.

 

No. He is right.

 

First of all op sounds like she is her 20s. You sound older. Dating game has completely changed. Most women now a days are choosing to play the field just as much as guys.

 

Second of all any truly good looking guys has PLENTY of options to say the least. I get at least one woman approaching me every single day that i go out. More then one is not uncommon. And I know 4 decent looking women who i could call for NSA sex right now.

 

Third of all being promiscuous =/= being bad in bed. Selfish men don't get called back for a second audition. Ever. You get one shot to make a good impression in the sack, and if you're good women come back, if you're not? They don't. All the info you need to be a sex GOD is at the touch of every mans finger tips. So most dudes who are sleeping with multiple women DO know how to get her off. And lets face it sex feels way better when the girl you're with is loving it too.

 

Fourth of all there is nothing irresponsible about having sex with strangers. There is this new invention, is called birth control, its crazy. You sound like you are stuck in the past/extremely naive. Guys who know they are good looking don't want to settle. And they have no reason to settle when girls now a days are willing to give it up without commitment.

 

And fifth of all the op is most likely in 20s as i already stated. Most of the extremely good looking women in their 20s who are looking for relationships? They choose older, more established men, and disregard their peers. So most dudes in their 20s choose to wait until they are older to settle down. A lot easier to pull a true 8/10+ 20-25 year old when you are in your late 20s.

 

The game has changed.

[KathyM]

As it's been said a few times already, the guys that are very good looking, do very well with women and are having too much fun sleeping with lots of different women to bother with being exclusive to one.

That can get old pretty fast. Going from one casual encounter to the next, and never having someone who actually cares about you. Most people do actually want love and companionship and someone who actually cares about them, and not just a string a people who don't care. That is true no matter how good looking or successful a person is.

[AntiSocal]

That can get old pretty fast. Going from one casual encounter to the next, and never having someone who actually cares about you. Most people do actually want love and companionship and someone who actually cares about them, and not just a string a people who don't care. That is true no matter how good looking or successful a person is.

 

But who said that girls that are having casual sex with you don't care? Its the same as being in a relationship in every single way. You go out on dates together, you kiss, you cuddle, you talk about your problems if you are that close. You help the other person with cash if they need it. But at the end of the day once you leave each others company you are allowed to do whatever you want because you are still single.

 

Its not the same as being single. More like having multiple girlfriends but without the headache/fear of getting caught.

 

And with the invention of online dating/tinder even completely average girls have access to sex with 9/10 guys. So yea most young ladies are gonna jump at that chance. Can you blame them?

[Imported]

Have you made your way around the block a few times already OP? Do the guys around the block already know that about you? Are you trying to date guys that live around the block? Do you give off a vibe that you are "that kinda girl" ?(trust me, they know)

 

Because any guy that knows that about you is not going to want to date you. They are just going to want a turn at you.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Imported

[d0nnivain]

Forget the #s rating scale. Forget what anybody looks like.

 

 

How is your self confidence h0000?

 

 

I don't think I'm a raving beauty but I suppose I'm above average. When I was younger I was plain -- glasses, skinny, too smart etc. I sort of grew into my personality.

 

 

While I'm willing to compromise, I have never been anybody's doormat. I always valued myself -- my time & my company. Most men who I have ever dated would tell you I'm generally a fun date -- flirtatious but not slutty (until we got behind closed doors), willing to go for beers at the local dive or champagne somewhere snazzy. I like sports. I'm independent & financially stable. I can hold my end of many conversations. The buddies & the parents generally approved.

 

 

That said, I got guys above my league & in my league (even though I HATE that expression). My husband is drop dead model gorgeous & more then one of my friends told me they never even would have had the courage to talk to him.

 

 

Part of it always was that I didn't take anybody's garbage. If you wanted me, call but not at the last minute. If a guy made an effort, I'd be open. If he wanted me to fall into his bed, I was often outta there. Sometimes I broke my own rules but those were my choices. When I did that I didn't worry about whether he respected me; I knew I respected myself & my choices. In fact when I broke my rules & had sex early I usually made sure we went to his place so I could get up & leave. You'd be surprised at how many came running after that whether I wanted them to or not.

 

 

It's stupid & it's game playing but it works. Make the guy work for it. Nobody values anything that comes too easy

[KathyM]

But who said that girls that are having casual sex with you don't care? Its the same as being in a relationship in every single way. You go out on dates together, you kiss, you cuddle, you talk about your problems if you are that close. You help the other person with cash if they need it. But at the end of the day once you leave each others company you are allowed to do whatever you want because you are still single.

Using someone for sex is not caring about them.

Its not the same as being single. More like having multiple girlfriends but without the headache/fear of getting caught.

Most people are not satisfied with meaningless hookups, and want someone who actually loves them and cares about them.

And with the invention of online dating/tinder even completely average girls have access to sex with 9/10 guys. So yea most young ladies are gonna jump at that chance. Can you blame them?

Most women are not just looking for a random hookup. They want an actual relationship.

[RedRobin]

No. He is right.

 

First of all op sounds like she is her 20s. You sound older. Dating game has completely changed. Most women now a days are choosing to play the field just as much as guys.

 

Second of all any truly good looking guys has PLENTY of options to say the least. I get at least one woman approaching me every single day that i go out. More then one is not uncommon. And I know 4 decent looking women who i could call for NSA sex right now.

 

Third of all being promiscuous =/= being bad in bed. Selfish men don't get called back for a second audition. Ever. You get one shot to make a good impression in the sack, and if you're good women come back, if you're not? They don't. All the info you need to be a sex GOD is at the touch of every mans finger tips. So most dudes who are sleeping with multiple women DO know how to get her off. And lets face it sex feels way better when the girl you're with is loving it too.

 

Fourth of all there is nothing irresponsible about having sex with strangers. There is this new invention, is called birth control, its crazy. You sound like you are stuck in the past/extremely naive. Guys who know they are good looking don't want to settle. And they have no reason to settle when girls now a days are willing to give it up without commitment.

 

And fifth of all the op is most likely in 20s as i already stated. Most of the extremely good looking women in their 20s who are looking for relationships? They choose older, more established men, and disregard their peers. So most dudes in their 20s choose to wait until they are older to settle down. A lot easier to pull a true 8/10+ 20-25 year old when you are in your late 20s.

 

 

 

Only low class men act like you describe. Good looking or not good looking, of any age.

 

 

That's why I advise women who are looking for a relationship to simply dump guys who push for early sex.

 

 

High class men don't do it... and as far as choosing to wait until their are older. I dunno about that either. The best and most successful men I've met or know of, got married to women they met in college or not long after.

 

 

That's so they can spend their hardworking career years with a partner... not wasting time chasing tail.

[AntiSocal]

Only low class men act like you describe. Good looking or not good looking, of any age.

 

 

That's why I advise women who are looking for a relationship to simply dump guys who push for early sex.

 

 

High class men don't do it... and as far as choosing to wait until their are older. I dunno about that either. The best and most successful men I've met or know of, got married to women they met in college or not long after.

 

 

That's so they can spend their hardworking career years with a partner... not wasting time chasing tail.

Do we have a double standard here?

 

If a man hooks up with multiple women he is low class.

 

If a girl hooks up with multiple men then what is she? Just a little promiscuous? Lol.

 

Whether or not someone is "low class" is your opinion. /discussion. I'm in a class full of women who have totally different ideals then you.

 

And i don't see how "chasing tail" is a waste of time. Again that is your opinion. Even the most successful and hardworking man isn't gonna work for more then 10 hours a day. Two hours to workout/eat. That leaves 6 hours of PRIME tail chasing time.

 

You're stuck in the past. Your ideals are just that, yours. Stop trying to pass them off as fact.

[KathyM]

Well, I know a lot of people in their 20s, since all of my kids, my nieces and nephews, and their friends are in their 20s, as well as many of my clients. They are all seeking a real relationship (or already have one). They are not interested in random hookups with strangers or near strangers. They want someone who actually cares about them. They want an actual relationship.

[GoreSP]

This bothers me a great deal and it's definitely not because I dress or talk to flirtatiously ..

So for a long time I feel like guys only want sex but not interested in dating me. And when I don't give them sex they just stopped being interested altogether.

 

I read it somewhere that guys can have sex with whoever if they are that horny (biology thing) but in order to date they will almost always choose within their league or above.

 

So there I conclude I am not that good to date but only good enough to F**k?

 

Anyone else has the same problem and how do you deal with it?

 

I felt the same for a while. The thing is, for every man who would date you seriously, there are about 10-15 who would sleep with you. So it's normal. Take it as a compliment and have sex if you wish.

 

Also, if you do not flirt or dress overly sexy - it is possible men will see you as a challenge.

A lot of guys have told me they are going for the flirty/dressed sexy ones for easy sex.

You aren't easy sex. Anticipation is awesome and men like to work a little - we all know that.

 

To be honest I find this whole 'don't give it away easy' thing to be total BS. A man who really likes you will still like you even if you have sex with him on the first date.

 

A man who only wants you for sex will not fall for you if you hold back and wait a few weeks to have sex with him - this one is either going to work harder to get you into bed or will move on to someone else.

 

Should you sleep with the second one on the first date, take it for what it is - just (hopefully) good sex!

 

There are proven benefits to having orgasms

 

Also I think this whole scale from 1 to 10 is also total BS.

[KathyM]

By waiting, you are more likely to weed out the users and losers who are only looking for sex.

[GoreSP]

Using someone for sex is not caring about them.

 

Most people are not satisfied with meaningless hookups, and want someone who actually loves them and cares about them.

 

Most women are not just looking for a random hookup. They want an actual relationship.

 

1) Having a FWB is not 'using' someone for sex. Both parties involved are generally care and at least care for each other's well being. Both parties also consented to NSA sex. No commitment doesn't necessarily mean someone is being used.

'Using' someone for sex is more someone pretending they really like you and once you slept with them they dump your ass and move on to the next girl...

 

2) Most people want actual relationship - yes. Having casual sex doesn't necessarily mean one is not looking for a relationship. It just means we have sexual desires. You find someone you are physically attracted to. This doesn't stop you from finding love (unless you fall for your FWB of course...)

 

3) same as 2

[KathyM]

1) Having a FWB is not 'using' someone for sex.

I don't agree. I think that is exactly using someone for sex. A FWB who only get together for sex and have no interest in dating the other person or spending time with the other person apart from sex IS using the other person only for sex. They are both using each other for sex if they are both understanding and accepting that the relationship is a FWB.

Both parties involved are generally care and at least care for each other's well being.

Not much, if they are only interested in sex with that person and nothing else.

Both parties also consented to NSA sex. No commitment doesn't necessarily mean someone is being used.

A FWB situation where both parties are interested in nothing more than sex with each other is two people who are using each other for sex.

'Using' someone for sex is more someone pretending they really like you and once you slept with them they dump your ass and move on to the next girl...

That's one form of using someone for sex. A FWB is another way.

2) Most people want actual relationship - yes. Having casual sex doesn't necessarily mean one is not looking for a relationship. It just means we have sexual desires. You find someone you are physically attracted to. This doesn't stop you from finding love (unless you fall for your FWB of course...)

Since the post I originally responded to implied that most men would only want to stay single and engage in casual sex, I countered that with the assertion that that is not what most men want. Most men want a real relationship with someone who loves them and cares about them. And certainly women of all ages want that too. I don't know of any woman who is only interested in a FWB or casual sex.

[GoreSP]

I don't agree. I think that is exactly using someone for sex. A FWB who only get together for sex and have no interest in dating the other person or spending time with the other person apart from sex IS using the other person only for sex. They are both using each other for sex if they are both understanding and accepting that the relationship is a FWB.

Not much, if they are only interested in sex with that person and nothing else.

A FWB situation where both parties are interested in nothing more than sex with each other is two people who are using each other for sex.

 

That's one form of using someone for sex. A FWB is another way.

 

Since the post I originally responded to implied that most men would only want to stay single and engage in casual sex, I countered that with the assertion that that is not what most men want. Most men want a real relationship with someone who loves them and cares about them. And certainly women of all ages want that too. I don't know of any woman who is only interested in a FWB or casual sex.

 

Well we'll just have to agree to disagree on what constitutes using someone for sex.

 

And I know a lot of women who are into casual sex so we are cancelling each other as far as knowing what everyone wants based on our circle of acquaintances.

 

We are probably in two different circles so we would have different views on the subject.

[KathyM]

Well we'll just have to agree to disagree on what constitutes using someone for sex.

 

And I know a lot of women who are into casual sex so we are cancelling each other as far as knowing what everyone wants based on our circle of acquaintances.

 

We are probably in two different circles so we would have different views on the subject.

We are talking about what people WANT. Some do have sex without dating at times, but most people WANT an actual relationship. Both men and women. Some people settle for sex without a relationship, hoping that it will turn into a real relationship, but it seldom does, since a casual relationship that is based on sex alone doesn't have much chance of surviving.

 

 

And I know people from all walks of life, many different backgrounds, different ages, different education levels, etc. I see many different types of people when providing counseling. And I meet many different types of people outside of counseling as well. The vast majority do want a real relationship with someone who cares about them and loves them. People of all ages. Sure, there are some "party animals" out there who are only interested in sex and don't want anything more than that, but as I said, most people would find that unfulfilling. The vast majority want a real relationship with someone who cares about them and loves them.

[GoreSP]

We are talking about what people WANT. Some do have sex without dating at times, but most people WANT an actual relationship. Both men and women. Some people settle for sex without a relationship, hoping that it will turn into a real relationship, but it seldom does, since a casual relationship that is based on sex alone doesn't have much chance of surviving.

 

 

And I know people from all walks of life, many different backgrounds, different ages, different education levels, etc. I see many different types of people when providing counseling. And I meet many different types of people outside of counseling as well. The vast majority do want a real relationship with someone who cares about them and loves them. People of all ages. Sure, there are some "party animals" out there who are only interested in sex and don't want anything more than that, but as I said, most people would find that unfulfilling. The vast majority want a real relationship with someone who cares about them and loves them.

 

Don't be uptight hun.

We're just having a conversation here.

 

And I don't care what your career is - you are in no position to be the one decider of what people want in life.

If your work is in counselling, you probably aren't dealing with the most stable/adapted ones.

[Grumpybutfun]

The really interesting thing about this thread is that everyone writing is correct. People want and expect different things from relationships, sex, life, etc. I can agree with every sentiment because I can see the validity of somedudes and red robins posts because though their realities are different, they both want love and long term commitments. Anti social wants something different and expects something different than Kathy, somewhat due to gender but also because of age. Gore, even though female, wants something different than Red Robin. That is because people are different and have different life stories. Also, some people can change their minds or want something different when they get older. We are all different, have different expectations, have differing values and that is okay. Opinions are just that, and if the OP believes she is being used for sex, then maybe she is so she has to determine what she really wants and expects to give and receive with other human beings.

OP, don't give sex if it is not freely given. It isn't barter for a relationship. You don't give it or with hold it for a chance at love. You share it for physical reasons or emotional reasons and neither one are bad as long as you are open and honest about intentions. People lie, so be smart enough to know someone well enough that you can see if their words align with their actions. If you don't know them long enough to determine that, then you haven't known them long enough to have sex if a relationship is what you want. Jumping into the sack after a night out drinking is what a casual sex woman does, it isn't the road to commitment and boyfriends. However, it is perfect for having fun and perhaps starting a FWB if that is something you desire. Having an easy rapport with a man who you both have similar interest in say, boxing, and who invites you to his gym where you can be taught foot moves might be something more than just a casual fling. If he values your time and isn't late, makes plans promptly, doesn't play games and is keen to see you, even better. If a serious relationship or exploring if there could be something more for your future is what you want, make it clear and accept nothing less. Be clear about what you want, be clear that you don't play games or tolerate disrespect and be honest about intentions always.

Good luck,

Grumps

[GoreSP]

The really interesting thing about this thread is that everyone writing is correct. People want and expect different things from relationships, sex, life, etc. I can agree with every sentiment because I can see the validity of somedudes and red robins posts because though their realities are different, they both want love and long term commitments. Anti social wants something different and expects something different than Kathy, somewhat due to gender but also because of age. Gore, even though female, wants something different than Red Robin. That is because people are different and have different life stories. Also, some people can change their minds or want something different when they get older. We are all different, have different expectations, have differing values and that is okay. Opinions are just that, and if the OP believes she is being used for sex, then maybe she is so she has to determine what she really wants and expects to give and receive with other human beings.

OP, don't give sex if it is not freely given. It isn't barter for a relationship. You don't give it or with hold it for a chance at love. You share it for physical reasons or emotional reasons and neither one are bad as long as you are open and honest about intentions. People lie, so be smart enough to know someone well enough that you can see if their words align with their actions. If you don't know them long enough to determine that, then you haven't known them long enough to have sex if a relationship is what you want. Jumping into the sack after a night out drinking is what a casual sex woman does, it isn't the road to commitment and boyfriends. However, it is perfect for having fun and perhaps starting a FWB if that is something you desire. Having an easy rapport with a man who you both have similar interest in say, boxing, and who invites you to his gym where you can be taught foot moves might be something more than just a casual fling. If he values your time and isn't late, makes plans promptly, doesn't play games and is keen to see you, even better. If a serious relationship or exploring if there could be something more for your future is what you want, make it clear and accept nothing less. Be clear about what you want, be clear that you don't play games or tolerate disrespect and be honest about intentions always.

Good luck,

Grumps

 

OMG I love you so much right now!

 

lol

[KathyM]

Don't be uptight hun.

We're just having a conversation here.

 

And I don't care what your career is - you are in no position to be the one decider of what people want in life.

If your work is in counselling, you probably aren't dealing with the most stable/adapted ones.

I'm not uptight at all. I'm a very relaxed person, just having a conversation the same as you are. I just have a different viewpoint than you. I'm not "deciding" what people want, I'm saying what I've seen in all walks of life.

 

 

Most of the people I know ARE stable. Most of my clients are not. So what I am saying is that people from all walks of life are looking for (or already have) a real relationship with real feelings, and are not interested in just casual sex.

[KathyM]

The really interesting thing about this thread is that everyone writing is correct. People want and expect different things from relationships, sex, life, etc. I can agree with every sentiment because I can see the validity of somedudes and red robins posts because though their realities are different, they both want love and long term commitments. Anti social wants something different and expects something different than Kathy, somewhat due to gender but also because of age. Gore, even though female, wants something different than Red Robin. That is because people are different and have different life stories. Also, some people can change their minds or want something different when they get older. We are all different, have different expectations, have differing values and that is okay. Opinions are just that, and if the OP believes she is being used for sex, then maybe she is so she has to determine what she really wants and expects to give and receive with other human beings.

OP, don't give sex if it is not freely given. It isn't barter for a relationship. You don't give it or with hold it for a chance at love. You share it for physical reasons or emotional reasons and neither one are bad as long as you are open and honest about intentions. People lie, so be smart enough to know someone well enough that you can see if their words align with their actions. If you don't know them long enough to determine that, then you haven't known them long enough to have sex if a relationship is what you want. Jumping into the sack after a night out drinking is what a casual sex woman does, it isn't the road to commitment and boyfriends. However, it is perfect for having fun and perhaps starting a FWB if that is something you desire. Having an easy rapport with a man who you both have similar interest in say, boxing, and who invites you to his gym where you can be taught foot moves might be something more than just a casual fling. If he values your time and isn't late, makes plans promptly, doesn't play games and is keen to see you, even better. If a serious relationship or exploring if there could be something more for your future is what you want, make it clear and accept nothing less. Be clear about what you want, be clear that you don't play games or tolerate disrespect and be honest about intentions always.

Good luck,

Grumps

You're making this about an age thing, or a gender thing, but it really isn't. That's my point. Both men and women, of all ages, want a real relationship with someone who cares about them and has feelings for them. While there are some party animals that are only into casual sex, the vast majority of people, of all ages and genders, are looking for something more fulfilling than that, and find the casual hookup culture to be unfulfilling.