Beaten women are dangerous.

[Tryst]

I have just put an end to a relationship with a woman who was beaten by her former husband. It went through the normal phases. I've been out with divorced women from violent relationships before so I know what to expect.

 

What I can never understand is why they always take revenge on every man they meet afterwards. They are the worlds worst for hurting you and I'd advise any soft hearted guy to avoid them like the plague. They have your emotions in turmoil and you always get branded the villain. No matter what you do or say, you are the one in the wrong even when she knows her actions were cold and calculated to cause you pain so you would react.

 

I can understand lack of trust would prevent her from making a commitment to early. However, to deliberately and coldly go out of her way to hurt is beyond my comprehension. I thought these women would welcome the chance to be with someone who would treat them nice. The only guys they are going to attract again are the ones who will do exactly what their former husbands did.

 

It's not logical captain.

[Tony T]

YOUR QUESTION: "What I can never understand is why they always take revenge on every man they meet afterwards."

 

In psychology, it's called displacement of agression. Since their ex husbands are far removed from their lives, they take their anger out on the closest thing that resembles a husband...the guy they happen to be dating.

 

Another example of displacement of agression is when we kick the dog when we get home because our boss angered us at work. As a matter of fact, a lot of spousal abuse is simple displacement of agression.

 

Divorce is an emotionally powerful thing. If a lot of anger has been built up during the course of that marriage and it hasn't been resolved or worked through (and it usually isn't), there will be a lot of anger stored up inside a divorcee. Thus the need to take it out on someone wonderful just like YOU.

 

Your best bet is to either date ladies who haven't been with emotionally or physically abusive men or to make sure enough time has passed since the divorce was final before thinking about dating one.

 

Very little in life is logical. Beam me up, Scotty...and shut up, Spock!!!

[Laurynn]

i think you're making a very sweeping an inaccurate generalization here, regarding women who were past victims of domestic assault. not -all- women with these pasts take revenge on future men....and i know this personally, because i'm a past victim of domestic assault [abusive marriage].

 

you might benefit from doing a little reading on the effects of domestic abuse......so you can better understand the mindset of these kinds of women..and there are a lot of them out there. recent statistics find that 1 in 9 women will be the victim of domestic violence, at the hands of a spouse or partner.

 

you've indicated that you've dated a fair number of past battered women....so i guess i could ask you why you keep dating women with the same kind of history.......is there something about them that you're attracted to ? this is something you need to do some soul searching on, i think.

 

maybe some of these women have not taken the time to heal..and they jump too quickly into relationships. i myself took 4 years after i had my ex hubby charged/left him/divorced him, to heal....rebuild my self esteem, learn to trust again, not be constantly 'on guard' fearing i'd end up with another charming man who'd wind up abusing me.

 

domestic abuse leaves very deep scars. not so much the physical abuse, but the mental/emotional/psychological abuse. if you want to be mad at anyone, be mad at the men in this world who abuse--bash, slap, curse, humiliate, belittle, threaten, control, manipulate, terrify, abuse......redirect your anger and frustration at the nasty sons of bitches who do this to women and children each and every day.

 

i don't expect a man to pay for the sins of my ex husband...or the other abusive men i've wound up with........if i felt they should pay, i would have learned to hate the entire male gender along time ago....and i would have foolishly adopted the notion that 'all men are the same'....i know that's not true........thank god.

 

pardon my defensiveness here.....but it really upsets me that you are 1] making such an unfair generalization.....2] you're not taking the time to really understand where a past battered woman is coming from.

 

laurynn

[fishbulb]

I have just put an end to a relationship

with a woman who was beaten by her former husband. It went through the normal phases. I've been out with divorced women from violent relationships before so I know what to expect. What I can never understand is why they always take revenge on every man they meet afterwards. They are the worlds worst for hurting you and I'd advise any soft hearted guy to avoid them like the plague. They have your emotions in turmoil and you always get branded the villain. No matter what you do or say, you are the one in the wrong even when she knows her actions were cold and calculated to cause you pain so you would react.

 

I can understand lack of trust would prevent her from making a commitment to early. However, to deliberately and coldly go out of her way to hurt is beyond my comprehension. I thought these women would welcome the chance to be with someone who would treat them nice. The only guys they are going to attract again are the ones who will do exactly what their former husbands did. It's not logical captain.

Fishbulb here...I can sympathize completely. I just ended one of those about a month ago, and try as I might, I find closure very difficult when I don't know why it ended. To make matters worse (for me), she has stated, in no uncertain terms, that she would tell me when she was ready. And I wait still. I've sadly become her emotional "hostage". At least, I was until I realized that I was. Normally, I may not try so hard for closure, but she belongs to my gallery, and I'd rather reach some sort of closure so we can both move on, even within the confines of the gallery when necessary. I haven't really reached any resolve yet, but it seems to get easier, except I won't be attending the next opening (hers-and her mom is catering) at my own gallery unless she happens to want to talk between now and then...not bloody likely...now it's time to read Tony and Laurynns' responses.

[fishbulb]

i think you're making a very sweeping an

inaccurate generalization here, regarding women who were past victims of domestic assault. not -all- women with these pasts take revenge on future men....and i know this personally, because i'm a past victim of domestic assault [abusive marriage].

 

you might benefit from doing a little reading on the effects of domestic abuse......so you can better understand the mindset of these kinds of women..and there are a lot of them out there. recent statistics find that 1 in 9 women will be the victim of domestic violence, at the hands of a spouse or partner. you've indicated that you've dated a fair number of past battered women....so i guess i could ask you why you keep dating women with the same kind of history.......is there something about them that you're attracted to ? this is something you need to do some soul searching on, i think. maybe some of these women have not taken the time to heal..and they jump too quickly into relationships. i myself took 4 years after i had my ex hubby charged/left him/divorced him, to heal....rebuild my self esteem, learn to trust again, not be constantly 'on guard' fearing i'd end up with another charming man who'd wind up abusing me. domestic abuse leaves very deep scars. not so much the physical abuse, but the mental/emotional/psychological abuse. if you want to be mad at anyone, be mad at the men in this world who abuse--bash, slap, curse, humiliate, belittle, threaten, control, manipulate, terrify, abuse......redirect your anger and frustration at the nasty sons of bitches who do this to women and children each and every day. i don't expect a man to pay for the sins of my ex husband...or the other abusive men i've wound up with........if i felt they should pay, i would have learned to hate the entire male gender along time ago....and i would have foolishly adopted the notion that 'all men are the same'....i know that's not true........thank god. pardon my defensiveness here.....but it really upsets me that you are 1] making such an unfair generalization.....2] you're not taking the time to really understand where a past battered woman is coming from. laurynn

Fishbulb again. You both make some valid points. I, myself, took about seven years between relationships. It is not just women that need to heal from abusive relationships, marital or otherwise. Men traditionally are taught to 'suck it up' when it comes to emotional pain, but we are also responsible for the consequences of that. Patterns are very difficult to break, especially if you don't know they exist. That anger has to go somewhere, and since men's traditional outlet has been aggression in one form or another, clearly another outlet must be found, and it should NOT be directed toward women, children, or any other living thing. A man that truly respects himself will look at the causes of this aggression and love himself enough to break those patterns, and in turn, his partner will sense that calm, and real trust will follow. How much road rage do you think is a product of the fear, anger and frustration men keep bottled up inside because men are taught not to feel pain? The best we can do is to know ourselves completely, and treat our own hearts like the jewels they are...

[Tony T]

Wow, you really came down on this guy.

 

I really don't think he was trying to advance a hypothesis for an upper level psych course. He was basically discussing his own unique and personal experiences with women he seems to continually attract. While he did make some generalizations, I can't speak for him, but I'm sure he didn't mean get you so steamed.

 

You have made some good points here which may help him understand battered women some but the poor guy's trying to figure out why the women in his life seem to take their crap out on him.

 

I tried to explain in the simplest of ways and perhaps fell short. But there's got to be some reason for this and we really want to try to help this guy with this problem.

 

Do you have any ideas on why these kinds of women keep falling into his romantic path??? Why do they seem to pound him into the ground when all he is seeking to do is love them? What could he be doing wrong? How might he change this around?

 

I think these are the questions he was yearning to be answered and I don't think I did a very good job of answering. Maybe you can help him by giving some suggestions on how he can change this around...if you have the time, of course. Your personal experiences may be very valuable here.

[HoNeYCHicA]

Maybe I'll find me a woman and have mercy on all you "soft-hearted" men...lol...but 4 real...I am not mean to guys I date and believe me, I have been thru a couple pretty traumatizing episodes in my life, but I still LOVE men!!! But until I figure out why I always go for "badboy" types I will either stay single or date a girl.....

 

Hang in there sweetie!!!

 

Hugs, HoNeYCHicA:)

Fishbulb here...I can sympathize completely. I just ended one of those about a month ago, and try as I might, I find closure very difficult when I don't know why it ended. To make matters worse (for me), she has stated, in no uncertain terms, that she would tell me when she was ready. And I wait still. I've sadly become her emotional "hostage". At least, I was until I realized that I was. Normally, I may not try so hard for closure, but she belongs to my gallery, and I'd rather reach some sort of closure so we can both move on, even within the confines of the gallery when necessary. I haven't really reached any resolve yet, but it seems to get easier, except I won't be attending the next opening (hers-and her mom is catering) at my own gallery unless she happens to want to talk between now and then...not bloody likely...now it's time to read Tony and Laurynns' responses.

[HoNeYCHicA]

I agree with both fishbulb and Laurynn, but women have no right either to abuse their men, even if they have been abused, and it all starts with SELF-LOVE...thats the key I believe...then you can love another....

 

Peace--HoNeYCHicA:)

Fishbulb again. You both make some valid points. I, myself, took about seven years between relationships. It is not just women that need to heal from abusive relationships, marital or otherwise. Men traditionally are taught to 'suck it up' when it comes to emotional pain, but we are also responsible for the consequences of that. Patterns are very difficult to break, especially if you don't know they exist. That anger has to go somewhere, and since men's traditional outlet has been aggression in one form or another, clearly another outlet must be found, and it should NOT be directed toward women, children, or any other living thing. A man that truly respects himself will look at the causes of this aggression and love himself enough to break those patterns, and in turn, his partner will sense that calm, and real trust will follow. How much road rage do you think is a product of the fear, anger and frustration men keep bottled up inside because men are taught not to feel pain? The best we can do is to know ourselves completely, and treat our own hearts like the jewels they are...

[Laurynn]

you wrote....

 

'Do you have any ideas on why these kinds of women keep falling into his romantic path??? Why do they seem to pound him into the ground when all he is seeking to do is love them? What could he be doing wrong? How might he change this around?'

 

women who've been in abusive relationships have usually been in more than one abusive relationship. in fact, a lot of women who've been in abusive relationships, grew up witnessing or experiencing abusive...usually by their parents. they grew up experiencing, first hand...drama, chaos, yelling, screaming, anger, fear, etc etc. they didn't learn about -healthy- relationships, or healthy problem resolution......they most likely grew up with low self esteem...believing [or having it drilled into their head] that they weren't very 'worthy'.......so these young girls go on to be women........and they are attracted to 'the familiar'....so they end up with men who mirror their childhoods....the fear, chaos, control, etc. despite how much they may hate the relationship they're in, a lot of them -believe- they deserve no better.

 

then when this woman finally breaks free....and comes to the point in her life where she realized 'enough is enough'..and she -does- have worth and value...and is deserving of love-without-a-pricetag, etc......she's got some deep seated stuff to work through....probably stuff she isn't even conscious of.

 

it can take a helluva long time to learn to trust again.

 

so this lady meets mr niceguy.....and he's sweet and charming and seemingly genuine and he treats her well........she is thrown right off guard. she remembers that mr. abusive started out this way [most abusive men are the -most- charming men you'd meet..like jekyll and hyde]..........she's afraid to trust, afraid to let her guard down.......and the attention and affection he shows her, she fears there's an ulterior motive to it..........but most of all [and this the important part].....she simply does not know how to deal with a good, decent, loving man. this kind of man is completely foreign to her. maybe even a little boring and far too predictable. she is used to living on the edge, having to walk on eggshells, never knowing what's going to happen from one minute to the next. subconsciously, she may even -miss- the confrontations, drama and chaos...becuase that's all she's ever known......that's familiar to her.

 

as well, a lot of abused women associate [as crazy as this sounds] abuse with love. some are so beat down mentally and emotionally that they learn to associate being treated badly and controlled/manipulated with love.....cuz that's the only 'emotion' they ever received from past partners. so when mr niceguy is always nice.....never raises his voice, never raises his fist, doesn't get off on fighting but prefers to calmly talk things out......she's bored, confused, questions his love for her, etc.

 

it's really quite complex, for someone who hasn't been in this position or has never had a friend or family member who's been in this position. heck, even many battered women don't understand the dynamics at play here.

 

battered women are used to having to work hard for someone's love.......they are used to having to do whatever it is their abusive partner expects them to do [the way they dress, the way they manage the home, the way they clean, the time they come home from work, where they go, what friends [if any] they can have, etc. battered women work so hard to please their men, by becoming perfectionists...keeping the house the way the man likes it, cooking the roast beef the way he likes it, dressing the way he likes it, etc etc. they are used to being controlled.

 

then....they find a nice guy who freely offers his love with no expectations.......so the battered women is, again, thrown off......she questions his love...because she's soooo used to have to work so hard, and be so perfect to have it [if what she received was really even love]....

 

i really think that battered women need professional counselling and therapy.......to help get on the road to real healing. sure, the scars will always be there to some extent.........but she needs guidance in learning ways to understand what a healthy partner/relationship is all about.

 

the original poster has two choices....

 

1. spend some time trying to understand the many dynamics that past victims of domestic abuse have to deal with......by way of reading books on it, speaking to someone at a battered women's shelter, reading up online about it, etc.

 

2. be extremely selective in who he gets involved with in the future. this option makes me uncomfortable, becuz it's almost like i [a past victim of abuse] am encouraging to stay away from women who've been in this boat...which is really very prejudiced....and it only contributes to the negative stigma that battered women have to deal with........which only perpetuates the cycle of women continuing to get involved with abusive men [if they figure a 'nice' guy doesn't want anything to do with them, they'll feel they are not worthy of anyone better..and they don't want to be alone, so they'll go back to 'the familiar=an abusive man'.....

 

if the original poster could give us specific examples or incidents that he's frustrated with.......maybe we could be more help.

 

his subject line, 'beaten women are dangerous'..that's not exactly a subject line that's conducive to starting a helpful dialogue. no doubt there are many battered women who frequent boards like this, in fact, for those of us who've been here for any length of time, we know there are several here. the last thing they need to read is that good men think they are dangerous [which might also connotate--worthless, sociopathic, neurotic, crazy, etc]

 

his subject line definitely got my dander up.......and i've dealt with my past abuse. can you see where i'm coming from here, tony ?

[Laurynn]

women who abuse men are just as bad...wait, i don't like that word bad....maybe 'in serious need of major help' would be better ?

 

abuse against men, by women definitely does exist......in fact, it's probably underreported because many men are too ashamed to admit it/report it.

 

no human being should abuse [physical, mental, emotional] any other human being.

 

laurynn

[Tony T]

I think we all understand this sort of thing a lot better now and your post has helped a lot.

 

That all this even takes place is a horrible testimony to the civility of at least a segment of mankind.

 

Many thanks...more information than I could have dreamed of getting.

[Tryst]

his subject line definitely got my dander

up.......and i've dealt with my past abuse. can you see where i'm coming from here, tony ?

I apologise for the subject title, I guess it didn't come across the way I intended. I don't know if any of you are from the UK, there is an alternative meaning to dangerous (unpredictable) and that's what I meant it to be.

 

To answer your previous post Laurynn, I live in a small working class town where most divorces are due to violent relationships. I am 41 years old so my chances of finding anything other than a divorcee is almost zero. In addition, I come from a family which divorced due to violence, my father also beat me when I tried to defend my mother. I do know something about it since I saw my mother go through several failed relationships afterward. She also sat and told me why it had failed and she knew it was her fault even though she always made the man feel guilty about it. By 14 years of age, I could understand both my own and her position.

 

I've tried almost every thing I can think of from boosting their morale to helping them stand up to their former husbands and becoming stronger. These things worked since I can confess to being good at that kind of counselling. However, the best counsellors can never seem to sort out their own lives.

 

You gave me an insight into the workings of the thoughts that go through the mind of a woman from your own viewpoint. Nevertheless, you neglected to explain why they make every effort to hurt their new man.

 

OK, here's an example. My last relationship has recently ended. I am very affectionate and so was she, we would often sit with arms around each other stroking each other around the back of the neck and down the spine for hours. Over the last couple of weeks, she had begun to get colder toward me, the affection we once shared had almost gone. I know it's just a knee jerk response to avoid showing her true feelings and therefore admitting she is vulnerable.

 

A few things caused minor disagreements but I would always sit and talk to her. We would sort it out in a civilised manner instead of screaming and shouting at each other.

 

There were minor things she did that hurt a little but I could cope with it. The final straw for me was when she flirted with another guy half her age, in her living room, right in front of me knowing full well how I felt about her. She knew she was showing him affection that I craved but was denied and she knew it cut really deep. I am not the jealous type and if our affection had continued, I would normally have laughed about it because of the effect it had on him. I could also see that it was a cold and very calculated move rather than a spontaneous mess around. She knew it was something that I wouldn't be able to ignore and also knew it would end our relationship. It was also totally out of character for her to flirt with any man.

 

I can't understand why she did it. I never harmed her or the kids. I didn't try to manipulate her or suppress who she was. She also has more self esteem than she ever had when I first met her.

[sparkle]

Hello Tryst,

 

When you first go on a date with a new woman, ask her if she's been abused. If she has, run for the door!!!

 

Just joking. But if you do learn that your girlfriend's been in an abusive relationship, then proceed with caution.

 

Try to talk to her about it as much as you can...to realize where she stands.

 

Many abused women need a great deal of time to get over their past relationship. Many have seeked help, talked to a counselor, and have learned to manage their feelings. And they are able to put their past behind them and become involved in healthy relationships. But many others haven't gotten the help they desperately need.

 

By talking to her, try to see whether she's ready to start anew or if she still needs some time to heal. Ask her if she's been to a counselor or group who can help her. If not, suggest that she talk to one. Be kind and patient. Tell her you will be there with her. If she's already gotten help or does take up your offer to get some, then you can be more hopeful that there may be a positive outcome.

 

If your girlfriend hasn't received help and if she objects to getting help...take those as major warning signs. The only thing you can do is to give her suggestions, but she still has to make the decision to seek help herself. She is the only one who can make these decisions. If she doesn't take the opportunity at this time to make this important change in her life, then it may be that she isn't ready.

 

In that case, you have some choices to consider. It may be best to cut your own losses and move on.

 

That may be hard to do. We see people that are hurt or "weak" or in need of help, and we want to protect them. We think we'll be able to make their problems go away. In reality though, there is only so much we can do, and sometimes if we're so busy spending most of our time trying to make everything perfect for them, then we start to neglect ourselves and our own happiness. You just have to realize that although you can show them love and respect and joy...you can offer them the world, yet only they can decide whether they want to take the offer.

 

Although you may regret ending the relationship with this woman, I think you made a good choice. If you do want to be with her in the future, make sure she seeks enough counseling first.

 

You sound like a wonderful loving, caring guy. I am TRULY sorry that you had the misfortune of bad timing--of meeting a woman that was not yet emotionally ready to be involved in a relationship. In the future, you may run across many abused women. Some may not have healed, but don't lose hope, because many others will be fully ready to be loved, to love you, and to trust you. One trait you should look for in a woman is her self-esteem and confidence. Sometimes if she is confident and feels good about herself, there is a lesser chance that you'll have many problems with her relating to this issue. And it will be your decision to choose which woman you're interested in continuing a healthy relationship with.

 

I wish you the best of luck!

[sparkle]

Tryst,

 

I replied below before I read this post. Looks like you made an honest effort to try to make this work out. Her flirting with the other guy might not necessarily have to do with her being beaten before. But it looks like you got the bad apple from the bunch. It's easier said than done, but I say this again, it may be best to cut your losses and move on.

[Laurynn]

hi there..i apologize for jumping on your about your subject line....'unpredictable' i can understand.

 

now as to this incident where she was flirting with this other man, right in front of you.....i'm not trying to excuse her behavior because it might not be what i suspect it is...but here are my thoughts. perhaps she was trying to 'test' you....to 'push your buttons'......to see how you would react, to see if you would react like men in her past have acted. get what i'm saying ? it's almost like a young child 'testing' their parent......to find out the limits and boundaries. maybe in the past, if she was even to cast a sideways glance at another man, she'd get a beating.....so she wanted to see for sure if you were 'different' than that kind of man. or maybe she wanting to see your reaction to see how much you really care. hard to say what motivated her to do such an insensitive thing. did you ever ask her why she did that ?

 

as for her blowing off your affection.....it could simply be as you said, she become uncomfortable feeling so vulnerable......or maybe she's simply not used to affection and it overwhelmed her....she got scared. keep in mind that many abusive men start out as real charmers.....oh lord how i can attest to that. they can be romantic, affectionate, thoughtful, charming, seemingly perfect. god, i think back to not long after i met my now ex hubby. before things got bad, he treated me like a queen. i remember tears welling up in my eyes when i would think about how blessed i was to have him....how blessed i was that -he- chose -little ol' me- to be with. i felt like the luckiest girl in the world. maybe your girlfriend felt scared because she's skeptical that affection never comes without a price tag.....or that it never really lasts.

 

i am really sorry that you got hurt like this. i wish i could offer some advice. i'm not sure how long it's been since she left the past abusive relationship.....but it could very well take her a few years to really get to the place where she's ready to be in a healthy relationship.

 

i do hope you find yourself a great woman, one who will give you all the love that you give to her. i really do believe that there is one special person out there for each of us.....now if only we could find them, hey ? lol

 

laurynn

[Rogue]

I'm not sure if I understood it all, but it seemed to explain a lot about a subject I knew nothing about.Thanks for sharing it with the rest of us.

[Tryst]

After reading the great post from Laurynn, it opened my eyes to a couple of points I'd overlooked. Also Sparkle's advice to 'proceed with caution'.

 

She still wouldn't let it drop and phoned me a couple of nights ago. At first, I thought it was to give the knife another twist. She asked if we could talk and told her I would think about it. Then I read the posts here over again and thought of a different approach.

 

Both of us are very affectionate and I thrive on it in a relationship. During the Christmas period, we were almost inseperable and had more than one person tell us they would have to buy a crowbar to lever us apart One of her problems was that it felt too good and she felt that she was "melting" too quickly so she backed off. The unfortunate part is that she backed off all the way and even denied *any* feelings for me. I am far from stupid and I know the initial attraction and the fact that she won't let go means it's more than she will admit to. I know now (thanks to Laurynn) that she was trying to hide her weakness from me to stop me exploiting it. The flirting was to force me to back off as well but she didn't think I would walk out entirely.

 

I know she is hooked but may not be ready to admit it or commit to anything so I offered a compromise:

 

A toned down version of our affectionate natures and only a couple of evenings of quality time a week. If we were together at any other time, we would talk and act as just friends. She can have the affection she also wants but not overpowering her defences to any threatening degree. I can go on like that for as long as it takes and give her time to 'mellow out' and put the past behind her so she can move on. I could keep my feelings for her and not have to bottle them but she would not feel cornered by my affectionate attention.

 

Part of our quality time is spent talking about how we feel, any problems we have with the situation and general talk about ourselves, our past and our desires. This is to get her used to talking to me if she has a problem with anything regarding me or our relationship. I respect people more if they can tell me they have a problem with the way I am acting etc. I don't get offended or hurt by it since a bad habit, for example, can be corrected so why let a relationship fail because of it. All this has been mentioned.

 

So far, it seems to be working and we feel more relaxed together. I hope this is the final solution since I don't think I can keep on trying new ideas if it fails this time. I have run fresh out of ideas and have reached the final stretch. Whether I win or lose, the end is in sight and it's either the winners enclosure or back to the changing rooms.

 

Many thanks to those of you who contributed with ideas.