Why throw it all away by asking them out?

[irc333]

Seems to be something I've noticed lately, perhaps it's my "average joe" appearance, but when I build a rapport with women...but when I go to flirt or ask them out, it's like they didn't expect it and go into hiding.

 

Can that be explained?

 

It is hard to explain, but it just feels like they tend to think I was never entitled to ask them out in the first place.

 

 

They are like, "What, he asked me out? I didn't expect that! See ya!"

[normal person]

How did you build a rapport? With trivial facts about yourself and her? Or did you have an emotional connection and some sexual tension?

 

If she's that surprised you asked her out, it probably came out of left field for her and she wasn't even considering you romantically.

 

Here's a fool proof way to go:

 

When I ask a girl out, she knows it's coming. And I'm certain that she's going to say "yes" because I've tested the waters. I've gotten to know her, flirted, and she was responsive and reciprocal. We like each other and it's obvious. The asking out is merely a formality at that point, she's just waiting for it. If I flirted and she obviously had no interest, I'd cut my loss right there and move on.

 

See what I'm saying?

[tbf]

The opening post is more revealing than it was intended to. If women are shocked that you're flirting or asking them out, long after you've gotten to know them, this tells me that you give no signals of interest during the get to know phase.

[Imported]

What exactly are you throwing away?

[topaMAXX]

How did you build a rapport? With trivial facts about yourself and her? Or did you have an emotional connection and some sexual tension?

 

If she's that surprised you asked her out, it probably came out of left field for her and she wasn't even considering you romantically.

 

Here's a fool proof way to go:

 

When I ask a girl out, she knows it's coming. And I'm certain that she's going to say "yes" because I've tested the waters. I've gotten to know her, flirted, and she was responsive and reciprocal. We like each other and it's obvious. The asking out is merely a formality at that point, she's just waiting for it. If I flirted and she obviously had no interest, I'd cut my loss right there and move on.

 

See what I'm saying?

 

Definitely disagree with this last part.

 

I've had experiences similar to the OP where I would ask them out and they would be surprised (I've also had experiences where I flirted, thought they were flirting back, and they were still surprised that I asked them out).

 

In these situations, it absolutely worked in my benefit to ask them out even though they didn't initially see me that way. Do you know why? Because they got to me and liked me as a person. Then, no matter how hard they tried, they couldn't get it out of their mind that I was interested.

 

While I've messed this up in the past, I've since learned to go forward, then pull back. Basically, I ask them out. They shoot me down. I pull back and treat them as friends while dating other girls. Rinse and repeat. Eventually, they start liking me and more times than not, they come after me.

 

Of course, this is all social circle or work game. Probably won't work when doing OLD lol.

[irc333]

What exactly are you throwing away?

 

Well I was rather being facetious in that topic, but I'm just saying it's funny how that sometimes can happen.

 

The only time that I have success in dating is when a woman is actually proactively hitting on me.

[irc333]

Depends on the person. I have friends both male and female in my social circles that prefer to get to know someone before asking them out.

 

Like these Meetup events. I have a male friend that prefers to get to know a woman over the course of these group events..that way he figures out if she's a psycho or not after let's say 4 events.

 

On the 5th event he asks her out if he deems her suitable enough to date rather upon chatting on first meet.

 

Some people have dating methods different from others

 

Some guys like to land phone #'s right on the first meet/pick-up...others as I had mentioned earlier.

 

 

Definitely disagree with this last part.

 

I've had experiences similar to the OP where I would ask them out and they would be surprised (I've also had experiences where I flirted, thought they were flirting back, and they were still surprised that I asked them out).

 

In these situations, it absolutely worked in my benefit to ask them out even though they didn't initially see me that way. Do you know why? Because they got to me and liked me as a person. Then, no matter how hard they tried, they couldn't get it out of their mind that I was interested.

 

While I've messed this up in the past, I've since learned to go forward, then pull back. Basically, I ask them out. They shoot me down. I pull back and treat them as friends while dating other girls. Rinse and repeat. Eventually, they start liking me and more times than not, they come after me.

 

Of course, this is all social circle or work game. Probably won't work when doing OLD lol.

[irc333]

The opening post is more revealing than it was intended to. If women are shocked that you're flirting or asking them out, long after you've gotten to know them, this tells me that you give no signals of interest during the get to know phase.

 

Right, because some women are turned off by initial signals. While let's say a woman is surrounded by men at the meetup/singles event...some tend to lay low until the "surge" settles and she's not inundated by the "Swarm" of men that are scaring the day lights out of her.

 

I must've seen 2 to 3 men trying to engage one woman at an event...its embarrassing. lol

[GoodOnPaper]

Seems to be something I've noticed lately, perhaps it's my "average joe" appearance, but when I build a rapport with women...but when I go to flirt or ask them out, it's like they didn't expect it and go into hiding.

 

Can that be explained?

 

It is hard to explain, but it just feels like they tend to think I was never entitled to ask them out in the first place.

 

 

They are like, "What, he asked me out? I didn't expect that! See ya!"

 

This pretty much sums up my entire singlehood experience. For whatever reason, just as a lot of men compartmentalize sex and love, a lot of women compartmentalize friendship and romantic feelings. Personally, I believe friendship and romance are two points on the same spectrum . . . very frustrating.

 

I agree with both of these . . .

 

The opening post is more revealing than it was intended to. If women are shocked that you're flirting or asking them out, long after you've gotten to know them, this tells me that you give no signals of interest during the get to know phase.

 

Right, because some women are turned off by initial signals. While let's say a woman is surrounded by men at the meetup/singles event...some tend to lay low until the "surge" settles and she's not inundated by the "Swarm" of men that are scaring the day lights out of her.

 

I must've seen 2 to 3 men trying to engage one woman at an event...its embarrassing. lol

 

. . . however, it seems like a guy can't win. I've never had it in me to be overtly flirtatious, even with my wife. I don't have the looks or charisma to get away with that. I guess all you can do to compensate is simply ask women out with as short of a prelude as reasonably possible -- at least you get your intentions out there before you're friendzoned.

[topaMAXX]

This pretty much sums up my entire singlehood experience. For whatever reason, just as a lot of men compartmentalize sex and love, a lot of women compartmentalize friendship and romantic feelings. Personally, I believe friendship and romance are two points on the same spectrum . . . very frustrating.

 

I agree with both of these . . .

 

 

 

 

 

. . . however, it seems like a guy can't win. I've never had it in me to be overtly flirtatious, even with my wife. I don't have the looks or charisma to get away with that. I guess all you can do to compensate is simply ask women out with as short of a prelude as reasonably possible -- at least you get your intentions out there before you're friendzoned.

 

I've found it relatively easy to get out of the friendzone. In fact, I end up friendzoning a lot of girls that turn out to like me.

 

But if you're stuck in the friendzone, you basically have one of two options: 1) Cut her off completely.....or 2) Keep going for it until she says yes.

 

Your choice will depend on how much you like the girl.

[xxoo]

Right, because some women are turned off by initial signals. While let's say a woman is surrounded by men at the meetup/singles event...some tend to lay low until the "surge" settles and she's not inundated by the "Swarm" of men that are scaring the day lights out of her.

 

I must've seen 2 to 3 men trying to engage one woman at an event...its embarrassing. lol

 

They aren't turned off by early signals. They are not interested, and it would be the same if the signals came early or later.

 

If they are interested, they'll enjoy and encourage those early signals. Just be light and flirty from the beginning, and let her respond or not. No need to do a full court press from the start, but do indicate some non-platonic interest.

[PJKino]

If a womens attracted to you shell show interest early on and be happy you showed interest early on its not about when you do its about wheter or not shes attracted also.

[normal person]

Definitely disagree with this last part.

 

I've had experiences similar to the OP where I would ask them out and they would be surprised (I've also had experiences where I flirted, thought they were flirting back, and they were still surprised that I asked them out).

 

In these situations, it absolutely worked in my benefit to ask them out even though they didn't initially see me that way. Do you know why? Because they got to me and liked me as a person. Then, no matter how hard they tried, they couldn't get it out of their mind that I was interested.

 

While I've messed this up in the past, I've since learned to go forward, then pull back. Basically, I ask them out. They shoot me down. I pull back and treat them as friends while dating other girls. Rinse and repeat. Eventually, they start liking me and more times than not, they come after me.

 

Of course, this is all social circle or work game. Probably won't work when doing OLD lol.

 

Well you definitely operate a lot differently than I do. Whatever works though, that's an interesting method to say the least, I can't say I've ever tried it. There are multiple ways to go about it, I suppose. To me that seems a little labor intensive, but to each their own.

[somedude81]

IMO, women should never be surprised when a man asks her out.

 

Just believe that every man you talk to is interested (with some exceptions), and there will be far less confusion in the world.

[hasaquestion]

Seems to be something I've noticed lately, perhaps it's my "average joe" appearance, but when I build a rapport with women...but when I go to flirt or ask them out, it's like they didn't expect it and go into hiding.

 

Can that be explained?

 

It is hard to explain, but it just feels like they tend to think I was never entitled to ask them out in the first place.

 

 

They are like, "What, he asked me out? I didn't expect that! See ya!"

 

They weren't interested in the first place.

 

Your problem is you're assuming that "building rapport", in your own words, is 1) recognized to be an advance and 2) further to the goal of taking a woman out on a date.

 

But if you talk to someone about the weather, the Oscars, or whatever, you haven't told them you have any intention of dating them. You're just being friendly.

 

Imagine if you randomly started talking to a guy somewhere in public, you chatted for a bit, and he said "so, would you like to get dinner tonight?"

 

That would be completely out of left field, would it not?

[irc333]

Believe it or not, one time I got a woman's number, called her up and we chatted some. Then I asked her out.

 

About 10 mins later, no joke, she calls me back to clarify, "I just wanted to ask, are you asking me out on a date or just going out as friends?"

 

And I said, "A date"

 

And she goes, "Yeah, sorry, but I don't think of you in that way, but I'll see you around Meetup".

 

Ouch!

 

Yeah, she actually had to call back to clarify if it was a date or not.

 

Sometimes I think I may be better off just letting the woman make the move. lol

[irc333]

I have noticed, if I attempt to "make it known I'm interested" right off the bat, it tends to scare off women, I get "short" answers or they seem to feel uncomfortable.

 

Which lulled me into keeping conversation light and not necessarily about innuendo or creating sexual tension.

 

Friend of mine, who I think took his indifference too far , was getting to know this woman over the past 2 months. He hadn't even asked her out yet, but he woudl show up at events she would be at and at the "final" formal event...she showed up because HE was going to be there (he found out her intentions through a friend, she was actually not wanting to go at first).

 

He's walking her to the parking lot, and she mentioned in passing she needed to get new tires. And my friend launches into the kind of tires she can get, what kind of tread would be good for her car and all other such boring nonsense that she probably fell asleep to.

 

My friend was even afraid to post an Iphone picture of him and her up on Facebook (he just sent it to me privately) because he didn't want word to get around that people might think he has a girlfriend.

 

He told me about all this when he got home, and I finally asked, "So, did you finally ask her out"

 

"Well, no....because I'm busy with stuff, and it seems like she's busy"

 

She was not only making excuses for himself, but for her as well.

 

 

How did you build a rapport? With trivial facts about yourself and her? Or did you have an emotional connection and some sexual tension?

 

If she's that surprised you asked her out, it probably came out of left field for her and she wasn't even considering you romantically.

 

Here's a fool proof way to go:

 

When I ask a girl out, she knows it's coming. And I'm certain that she's going to say "yes" because I've tested the waters. I've gotten to know her, flirted, and she was responsive and reciprocal. We like each other and it's obvious. The asking out is merely a formality at that point, she's just waiting for it. If I flirted and she obviously had no interest, I'd cut my loss right there and move on.

 

See what I'm saying?

[tbf]

irc, that's why people flirt. This tests the ground without cornering anyone and if done well, can ratchet up the sexual tension.

[irc333]

irc, that's why people flirt. This tests the ground without cornering anyone and if done well, can ratchet up the sexual tension.

 

Oh, it has to be ...done well? lol By whose measurement decides what is done well and what is not?

 

"Hey nice rack, I'd like to motorboat them vs. complimenting them on something above their neck.

 

You mean things like that?

[normal person]

Oh, it has to be ...done well? lol By whose measurement decides what is done well and what is not?

 

"Hey nice rack, I'd like to motorboat them vs. complimenting them on something above their neck.

 

You mean things like that?

 

Yes, tbf articulated it better than I did. Communicate interest but don't be disrespectful. Unfortunately there's no approved list of sayings/behaviors. If she's receptive, it's ok. If she's not, just stop, it's not ok. Case by case sort of thing.

[somedude81]

irc, that's why people flirt. This tests the ground without cornering anyone and if done well, can ratchet up the sexual tension.

If done well.

 

Which is a lot harder than it seems.

[irc333]

If done well.

 

Which is a lot harder than it seems.

 

Yeah, I suppose I hardly ever do it "well" (which is a subjective term). But sometimes I don't have to flirt much at all. In fact, I was just being myself when I had some women show interest in me and make the "flirtaceos" move.

 

It's few and far between, but it has happened.

[irc333]

Remember the woman that said, "I'll think about it" (different woman) when I asked her out pretty much sooner than later. (Since you thought 2 weeks as "too long").

 

She was the one that added me on Facebook mind you at a party the previous day as she was leaving. I made no initiation in that case, I let her make the move to get my contact info (Facebook).

 

I saw her at another Meetup and we were talking some, (we sat across from each other at the dinner table), but I was mingling with others, too.

 

I go home and she , out of the blue, blocks me on Facebook. lol

 

Talk about, hot to cold....maybe she was upset I didn't make a move on her that night post-"I'll think about it"?

[xxoo]

If done well.

 

Which is a lot harder than it seems.

 

Not really. Just start light and escalate from there if she keeps up the banter. If she's interested, she'll encourage you.

 

You don't have to mention her appearance to flirt. Mention her laugh, her taste in movies, her wit, whatever. Call her dream girl, a ray of sunshine, a catch. Just keep it light, not serious.

[MidwestUSA]

Oh, it has to be ...done well? lol By whose measurement decides what is done well and what is not?

 

"Hey nice rack, I'd like to motorboat them vs. complimenting them on something above their neck.

 

You mean things like that?

 

I hope this is a joke.