How do you deal with father's big fat EGO?

[ehehef]

To summarize what turned into a very long thread in here (http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t51540/):

 

I've been living with my fiancee for 3 months now, getting along wonderfully, finalizing our wedding plans for May.

 

My own father, however, unlike my mother, is threatening to not come to the wedding, accusing me of being "brainwashed" by my fiancee, and of "betraying" him -- by deciding to move out before the wedding! He blaims me for not handling her, for not reminding her that she is OBLIGED to be polite with my father (regardless of what she thinks of him). To him it's all about respect, and family.

 

His EXCUSE is that if I were still at home, my fiancee would be "motivated" to visit me there, and "feel the need" to patch things up with my father -- they didn't exactly have even a polite relationsihp between each other when I moved out.

 

Now it seems it's "his way or the highway". He won't accept my offer to "start fresh", to talk things over with my fiancee present. He won't accept my offer to talk to the therapist I have been seeing, with me present). He claims I "don't want to fix things".

 

I feel I've done all I can, and more. I've taken on some of HIS responsibility for all this mess. I can't help but blame my fiancee's character a bit (if it wasn't for her pressuring, I probably would not have moved out), and then hating myself for even thinking that.

 

Time is flying by, and I just cannot IMAGINE my wedding day without my own father present!

[Debster]

I decided to respond because you are still wallowing in this.

 

You have a choice:

 

1) Decide to deal with the fact that your father won't attend the wedding

OR

2) Decide to deal with the fact that your fiance won't attend the wedding

 

You are already starting to turn things around to blame your fiance.

You are completely brainwashed and father-whipped to the point where you don't know what is right from wrong.

 

This is make or break time. Either you decide to cut your father out of your life - or your fiance. I know you don't want to hear this - but I think you need to. IMO it is only a matter of time before your fiance says she has had enough. One she says that, you've already lost her. Your father is acting like a complete bossy, manipulative, childish idiot. WHy you don't see that and finally tell him enough is beyond me.

 

You wrote before about how you have all of these friends and a great supportive network - what do they say?

[Matilda]

But what about making sure to show him CONTINUOUSLY that I am NOT "the bad guy", that I care about him, want to be there for him, and to be on good terms with him. Instead of listening to his stupid comments about us not seeing each other and turning my back on him altogether. I seriously worry for his health and sanity if I do that, it's just too cruel. My fiancee, however, would have no problem doing this, which makes me feel even more alone in dealing with my father.

 

I read the thread you linked to, and what I posted above that you said in that thread really stuck out to me. I think you are ascribing too much power to yourself, it is almost delusional. Do you truly believe you are responsible for your father's health and sanity? Just in case you do believe that, I will tell you that you are not. Your father is responsible for himself, and you are now responsible for yourself. You are now leading seperate lives. He makes the decisions in his life, and you make the decisions in your life.

 

For some very unhealthy reason, your father is unable to seperate from you. And you are compounding this problem by pandering to him. You are not being cruel to your father. Your father needs to find his own solutions to his problems. And it is my opinion that your father's problems have nothing to do with you. You can't make him happy or healthy.

 

You can say to him "Dad, I'm sorry you are unhappy with your life, but I can't do anything about that. It is time for me to live my life with the woman I love. I would like to continue to have a relationship with you, but I refuse to let you control my life anymore. I am a grown man, who makes his own decisions. Surely, as my father, you would want me to be happy and fulfilled as a person."

[ehehef]

First let me respond to Debster:

 

The choices you say are what I've come up with as well, there's just no other way around it. If I sound like I'm still "wallowing" in this, it's because I'm discussing it once a week with a therapist, and still find it VERY hard to come to terms with the fact that after so many years of being a close-knit, social, friendly, loving family (with our share of small delusions, like everyone), all of a sudden when it comes time to my wedding, the s**t hits the fan. It's as if I'm now going through the rebellious teenage stage I never felt I had to in my youth!

 

Is it any wonder with a father who literally DOTED on me all my life? Who made me his pride and joy, stepped in to help me (sometimes unnecessarily) in difficult situations and to guide me every step of the way? Psychological hand holding is nice, but c'mon Dad, what sane father does that with a son of 30? And accuses him of not betrayal and not putting his family first?

 

The friends and supportive network basically all pick up on the anger I feel for the situation (ths is my therapist talking, now) and basically say, "he's acting crazy, if he doesn't want to come to the wedding, tell him you don't WANT him there!". And I agree TOTALLY. But see paragraph 1 above... :-)

 

Matilda, I don't think I was ever "delusional" about my father's health, just overly concerned and couldn't help but feel that MY actions and choice in life are affecting it. But I definitely do NOT feel that way anymore, it would be insane.

 

I think deep down my father is still playing the fatherly role, worried that my fiancee might treat me the way HE has done -- being overbearing and manipulative, even when he probably didn't realize it. It's true that I'm now saying things to my parents and doing things that they wouldn't have expected in the past, but if my fiancee had anything to do with that, she simply provided the initial "inspiration"!

[Matilda]

Matilda, I don't think I was ever "delusional" about my father's health, just overly concerned and couldn't help but feel that MY actions and choice in life are affecting it. But I definitely do NOT feel that way anymore, it would be insane.

 

Good, I'm glad, I was a little worried about you. Sorry to accuse you of being delusional, but it just seemed that you have had a lot of people give you advice that you haven't been taking. I thought maybe some shock value might help.

 

I do hope you and your Dad can move on to a healthier relationship. You both obviously love each other a great deal, and I understand that it is difficult when you feel you are negating all that he has done for you. But, Dad's are supposed to take care of their kids, and that care should have been phased out in your late teens and early 20's. Have you been talking with your therapist about why you might be afraid to step out on your own and be truly independent, instead of clinging to your Dad? You are a good guy, and I have faith that you will be able to get this sorted out.

 

Also remember that your Dad's behavior may get worse before it gets better.

[ehehef]

Originally posted by Matilda

Also remember that your Dad's behavior may get worse before it gets better.

 

Gee, that's not TOO reassuring!

 

Good point about the "phasing out", I think a big part of why he didn't do it is because (as he has told me many times), he "compromised" his marriage (my parents really should have separated years ago) and ended up staying home for his only child -- me. This isn't an exaggeration, it's how he really feels. Whether it's an excuse or not, who knows.

[Matilda]

Gee, that's not TOO reassuring!

 

Yeah, I guess on the surface it's not reassuring. I'm just saying your Dad may continue to try his old ways of getting you to do what he wants, but when he doesn't get the usual response from you, he may intensify his demands and even become more aggressive, trying to get the reponse he wants. It's called an extinction burst.

http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/archives/bursts.txt

 

I'm just saying if you can make it through this burst of bad behavior it should get better on the other side.

[ehehef]

An excellent link, Matilda, thank you!

 

If this is what I can expect, let's hope that "extinction burst" finishes before May (my wedding)...

 

So far, I THINK I have noticed more activity on his part -- trying to contact relatives and friends who know me, and generally complaining to my mother about the situation.... so you may have a point there.

[quankanne]

I puzzled over your post, but your next-to-last entry made things clearer: your father "gave up" his desires to stay in a marriage he didn't want to stay in just so that you wouldn't suffer. Not extraordinary -- many people do that, stay in a relationship for the kids -- but I think somehow, over time, that's morphed into a sense of "my child should be grateful for what I've done for him, but no, what does he do? he sides with a woman who has no 'respect' for me, who's turned my own son against me, the son I gave up everything for." At least that's what I see, your dad's insecurity rearing up in a way that makes him sound like a two-year-old pitching a fit, or worse, a sixth-grader demanding that you choose which friend you like best.

 

prolly the best thing you can do for yourself is to put your foot down and let your dad know that you will never stop loving him or appreciate all that he's done for you, but this woman is about to become your wife. If Dad doesn't want to make nice with her, that's his business, but you aren't going to put up with him being rude or churlish or snide to her just because he doesn't like how things have turned out. That because you love and admire him, you hope that your father can at least respect your choices whether he likes them or not.

 

you've got to put your foot down and establish some boundaries. I know it can be hard -- each and every one of us go through that stage at some point, and it can be heart-rending, but it's necessary in order to move to a point where our parents don't see us as the child dependent on them, but as a fully functioning adult putting into effect all that they've taught us.

 

good luck, and remember: if he wants to act like that two-year-old or aggravating adolescent, then treat him accordingly so. He'll snap out of it soon enough.

[ehehef]

Originally posted by quankanne

...many people do that, stay in a relationship for the kids -- but I think somehow, over time, that's morphed into a sense of "my child should be grateful for what I've done for him, but no, what does he do? he sides with a woman who has no 'respect' for me, who's turned my own son against me, the son I gave up everything for."

 

Impressive! That's EXACTLY how he seems to express himself, as if I have "turned my back" and "betrayed" the 30 years of upbringing he has given me! He has even said, quite directly: "I gave you 30 years, can't you do ME a small favour?". I eventually agreed with my therapist who says that he sees me as a child with these words -- the older parent asking the child to do him a favour, without any particular logic behind it.

 

Since he SEEMS to blame my fiancee, I called him the other day to say hi and to say that the next time I drop by, I'd like to bring her along, if he's ok with that. He replied "No, I'm not OK, you can come but I won't be here". Imagine!

 

The worst part is that I don't feel ONE SINGLE STEP closer to my goal -- to visit my parents once a week and/or eat out with them once a month or so, WITH my fiancee next to me, and for everyone to get along nicely -- not perfectly, just POLITELY.

[Lil Honey]

I can really relate to your problem.

 

I was married nearly 25 years ago. My father told me that he wasn't coming to my wedding. He also gave me the impression that he wasn't going to "let" my mom go either. When we met with the clergy, he asked how many people would be attending. I told him that I was only expecting my maid-of-honor. I didn't expect anyone from my family.

 

My family was one of the reasons that we had a VERY small wedding. I was afraid of a big wedding and how, if my father DID show, he would embarrass me in front of a huge gathering of people. I was actually ashamed of my father.

 

We got married. He was there. He walked me down the aisle. I have photos of a man walking his daughter down the aisle with a scowl on his face. It says more about him than it does about anyone or anything else.

 

He never stopped speaking to me, but I thought he would break all ties with me.

 

You have to do what will make YOU happy. If you get married one of two things will happen. They will stop talking to you or they won't.

 

Your new wife doesn't have to kiss anyone's backside, but she should remain just as respectful of them as she is to a stranger on the street. Both your parents and your wife should be respectful/polite for YOU.

 

Getting married means that you are starting your OWN life and your OWN family. Your father has had his.

 

Lil Honey

[hotgurl]

a couple questions.

 

Have you ever moved out before?

 

was it permenant or temporary move ie college?

 

How did your parents react?

 

Why were you still living at home at 30?

 

You said he almost left the marriage a couple of yrs ago. How old were you then?

 

Basically you are co-dependent you cannot separate yourself from your father. It's the same as if he were an alcoholic and you gave excuses for his drinking.

 

In therapy your really need to figure out why you are unable to leave the nest. You need to stop trying stop communicating with them so much. You can't make him change his mind all you can change is your reaction. In time it will get better but calling all the time is just upsetting you. You can't have your ideal family life right now. It's impossible so leave it alone. Don't call. Don't visit. Give it time.

[ehehef]

Hotgurl, to answer your questions:

 

I have moved before, with little problems -- I'm a very self-sufficient guy and I like it, I've missed it actually. A few years ago I went overseas to study for a year, and of course my parents didn't have any problems, they supported me. My father reacted a bit badly when I moved PERMANENTLY to another country to work (again with their support), but he quickly got over it, unlike now when he sees it as a more permanent thing. For personal/professional reasons I ended up moving back home and living with them again until moving in with my fiancee a few months ago (see next paragraph).

 

I was still living at home at the age of 30 simply out of convenience -- I never felt my parents oppressed me in any way, or stuck their noses in my business. I was free to come and go as I pleased, and live my life. The cost of living on my own in the country I live in means that unilke in North America, I'd have to seriously compromise my standard of living. But now since we are two people (my fiancee and I), things are much easier.

 

"Co-dependent" sounds worse than it really is. I think that over the years simply by being a bit TOO close to my parents (by their choice AND mine), I have nurtured the concept of an "ideal family life" which I just can't have now. I have to set boundaries and limits and make sure my father understands and respects them.

 

Giving it time is the ONLY option, other than talking with him to make sure he HEARS my side of things. Other than that, the only stress I have is to make sure he comes to my wedding -- I just can't imagine it without my entire family there.

[hotgurl]

Well hopefully he will come around by the time you get married. It is difficult financially to be by oneself so I understand that. I am sure if you are there he will eventually come around. Just limit your calls to him as there are upsetting to you and your finance and try to enjoy your engagement. And if he doesn't come to the wedding it will be sad for you but he will miss out as well. I am sure he won't miss it as he sounds like a caring dad. good luck.

[Lil Honey]

Originally posted by ehehef

I have moved before, with little problems

 

So what you are saying is that your father's "problem" is your future wife. What has happened between them that he doesn't like? Does he just not like her personality? Has she done something to upset him? Has he done something to upset her? Or is it just the fact that no woman is "good enough" for his only son?

[ehehef]

Originally posted by Lil Honey

,,,is it just the fact that no woman is "good enough" for his only son?

Most likely! I didn't mean that the last time I moved out I didn't have any problems -- he took it ALMOST as badly as now, only now it's worse because we weren't talking about a marriage then!

 

My fiancee is a strong-willed, opinionated woman, who is (as she admits), a bit "abrupt" and "touchy" sometimes when she feels someone is sticking their noses in her business. So from the beginning, my father's overbearing, almost "pushy" behaviour (well-intentioined and probably trying TOO hard to please) caught her by surprise, it was too much for her. So a couple of times she snapped at him ("Because THAT'S how I like it", that sort of thing) because she just hasn't lived with someone like that for 30 years, as I have!

 

So although sometimes my father blames her, he really blames ME for not telling her "Hey, this is my father, I know he's a difficult guy, just ignore him, we can't change him at his age, and we should respect the fact that he's older and your future father-in-law...". I intend to be more firm about this, because if my fiancee had her way now she wouldn't ever hear or see my father again. But that just CAN'T be the case -- what happens when we have kids? When I will want to share family holidays and moments with my parents AND with her next to me?