Author pureinheart Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 To restate my post, which you did not reply to, it is because Evangelical Christians come across as lacking empathy, although that is the main thing that Jesus taught. Another thing Jesus taught is you meet people where they are. You don't do that. You don't try to present arguments based on premises everyone can agree on. As a result, it feels like you're selling something. You seem to lack reflection and self awareness, and you talk kind of like automatons. The answer to every question or comment seems to be "If you knew Jesus, your doubts would be gone." Repeat ad nauseum in robotic voice and with robotic smile. For example, see Pie's post above which you "liked". Does he respond to the questions and comments in Johan's post? No. He just quotes a few lines out of context and uses them to meet his own ends. This is mostly what I see from proselytizing Christians so it doesn't surprise me, although it is disappointing. So I take it, it's only Christians you hate? Just to clarify, are you referring most comments to me personally, or "you" in general. The reason I didn't respond is due to the fact it was more of the same hate or disdain concerning Christians. I'm sorry I don't meet up to your standards, I'm not good at that and never will be and because I'm a follower of Jesus, this does not make me a doormat. Link to post Share on other sites
florence of suburbia Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) So I take it, it's only Christians you hate? Just to clarify, are you referring most comments to me personally, or "you" in general. The reason I didn't respond is due to the fact it was more of the same hate or disdain concerning Christians. I'm sorry I don't meet up to your standards, I'm not good at that and never will be and because I'm a follower of Jesus, this does not make me a doormat. Could you please point out the hate in either of my posts? I guess by "you" I mean proselytizing Christians. I have never been proselytized by any other religious group, although I read that others have. I can't comment on that experience, not having had it. It isn't as though Muslims have a strong voice in this country, as the religious right does through the tea party movement, etc. Edited March 22, 2014 by florence of suburbia 3 Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 For example, see Pie's post above which you "liked". Does he respond to the questions and comments in Johan's post? No. He just quotes a few lines out of context and uses them to meet his own ends. This is mostly what I see from proselytizing Christians so it doesn't surprise me, although it is disappointing. Please point out how I "quoted a few lines out of context, and used them to meet my own ends". I'm curious. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author pureinheart Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 Could you please point out the hate in either of my posts? I guess by "you" I mean proselytizing Christians. I have never been proselytized by any other religious group, although I read that others have. I can't comment on that experience, not having had it. It isn't as though Muslims have a strong voice in this country, as the religious right does through the tea party movement, etc. I used the term disdain also because I don't know if it's a full on hate or simply disdain. Link to post Share on other sites
pickflicker Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 pureinheart;5598502]Just to clarify: Do you believe these things are only a religious problem? This is where I'm divided a bit and possibly you can bring some insight. I agree that the world has always had bad garbage in it. I disagree however that it's getting better- I'm leery of stats and numbers as they can be crunched and skewed to fit any agenda. Most of the stuff that goes on today is basically the same old lie from the beginning of man, nothing new really…just an increase of it due to more people and the availability of technology. My thought is, more people are doing more of it. That's why there's such a thing as peer review. That's why you only read peer review - nectar the stats have been crunched and recrunched by people whose mission is to attempt to find flaws in the data. You're only basing your view on your opinion, which fits your agenda. We call that "confirmation bias". 3 Link to post Share on other sites
johan Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I "quoted a few lines out of context, and used them to meet my own ends". Exactly! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pickflicker Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I forgot to answer pureinheart's question - I believe extremism is a universal problem. Religion isn't a problem, people who use it as an excuse are. Atheism isn't a problem, the people who twist it into something resembling just another religion are. But to say that the the world is turning into a cesspool because people are turning away from religion and towards critical thinking - that's just bull****. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pickflicker Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 That's why there's such a thing as peer review. That's why you only read peer review - because the stats have been crunched and recrunched by people whose mission is to attempt to find flaws in the data. You're only basing your view on your opinion, which fits your agenda. We call that "confirmation bias". Fixed for spelling. Arsehole phone.... Link to post Share on other sites
writergal Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Oh and I forgot to add Bill Maher's view on religion...(lol) 2 Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Exactly! Haha...I don't think it was that bad! I just chose to respond to the parts of your message that I relate to, trying to find common ground, rather than quote the stuff I really don't agree with at all, and incite more of the petty exchanges I've seen on this thread. I really wasn't trying to take anything out of context, lol. I really do agree with you about the submission thing (just didn't want to quote all of the negative stuff). And I love smileys, no matter how "robotic" they may seem (at least to florence of suburbia!) Link to post Share on other sites
florence of suburbia Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Please point out how I "quoted a few lines out of context, and used them to meet my own ends". I'm curious. Sure. It's kind of ironic really, if you look at it from Johan's point of view. The main thrust of Johan's post is that people who try to evangelize come across as self-righteous and self-serving and are actually a turnoff to the cause of Christianity. Then you quote the items in bold, below... Everyone needs to have faith in something. Even those who don't embrace religion often have faith in things that are as ethereal and unprovable as God and Christ. I think Christianity is the way to go, but I understand that to most who are looking for answers it means submission not only to God but also to a group of apparent self-righteous hypocrites who trotted up to them on their high horses completely uninvited. Most would say, "I think I would like God, but I'll pass on the whole thing if it means I have to be like you." ...ignore the thesis of his paragraph, that the messengers completely spoil the message, and go on to use his own words to evangelize him, per below, which is the exact thing he is describing as distasteful: That's awesome. And so true. Submission to anyone (even God) goes against everything we're taught, and what seems natural. We're taught that dominance, power and being better than others equals success. But once we see how broken we are (in comparison to God's perfection), it gets easier to have more patience with others who are also broken. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
writergal Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Religion is responsible for slavery, bigotry, homophobia (because its against gay marriage), it promotes gender inequality, and tries to control woman's bodies by prohibiting birth control and abortion. Religion is against science, free thought, stem cell research, and its against multiculturalism because it promotes racism. I could go on but why bother. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
johan Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Haha...I don't think it was that bad! I just chose to respond to the parts of your message that I relate to, trying to find common ground, rather than quote the stuff I really don't agree with at all, and incite more of the petty exchanges I've seen on this thread. I really wasn't trying to take anything out of context, lol. I really do agree with you about the submission thing (just didn't want to quote all of the negative stuff). And I love smileys, no matter how "robotic" they may seem (at least to florence of suburbia!) Well, it's not a big deal to me. Common ground is great. But the heart of my post, addressing the more controversial issue that is the topic of the thread, was in the parts you disregarded. That's what Florence was getting at. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
writergal Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Julia Sweeney - The Gifts of Not Believing In God Julia Sweeney - The Gifts of Not Believing in God - YouTube 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Haydn Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I LOVE Eddie Izzard! LOL I also LOVE George Carlin. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
pickflicker Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Ahh...George Carlin... And one of my favorite movies! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
florence of suburbia Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I just chose to respond to the parts of your message that I relate to Hey Pie, that's not a capital crime, and neither are smilies. I like them too, although I like the bunny the best. But can't you see how if someone is being sincere and you "only respond to the parts I relate to," and therefore miss the main point, You're not really having a conversation? 6 Link to post Share on other sites
pickflicker Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I can't find a clip of Billy Connelly's World Tour Of Scotland, but I always loved his take on Catholics and contraception. "I would like to thank the Catholic Church personally, for the rhythm method of contraception - without which, I wouldn't be here at all. I'm sure my father practiced it faithfully - the metronome on the sideboard, tick tick tick (thrusting motions)...ooh, this is good, I'll get out the mouth organ... Mum with the tamborine..." :laugh: 3 Link to post Share on other sites
writergal Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Hey Pickflicker I found this Billy Connolly clip on religion: Billy Connolly Discussing Religion - YouTube 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Haydn Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Billy Connolly - religion is over - TestTransmission1984 - YouTube I can't find a clip of Billy Connelly's World Tour Of Scotland, but I always loved his take on Catholics and contraception. "I would like to thank the Catholic Church personally, for the rhythm method of contraception - without which, I wouldn't be here at all. I'm sure my father practiced it faithfully - the metronome on the sideboard, tick tick tick (thrusting motions)...ooh, this is good, I'll get out the mouth organ... Mum with the tamborine..." :laugh: 2 Link to post Share on other sites
pickflicker Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Hey Pickflicker I found this Billy Connolly clip on religion: Billy Connolly Discussing Religion - YouTube Pretty good, but if you can get your hands on the World Tour Of Scotland series, it is hands down the best thing he ever did. Billy reading William McGonagall's "Bridge Of Tay" in a blizzard - priceless! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Hey Pie, that's not a capital crime, and neither are smilies. I like them too, although I like the bunny the best. But can't you see how if someone is being sincere and you "only respond to the parts I relate to," and therefore miss the main point, You're not really having a conversation? Well, I'm glad you love smileys too!! I guess I've had a bit of a fail of communication though! I really was trying to relate to johan's post! It just goes without saying that I don't agree with half of what he said though. I feel no need to respond to the obvious fact that I don't agree with the more insulting parts of his post (as I'm an Evangelical Christian): I think Christian evangelical types probably fail nearly 100% in their evangelism because of their crappy approach. I don't think the average person they attempt to convert feels loved and cared about and invited in nearly as much as they threatened and judged for being outside. And for good reason, I think. It comes generally from a righteous "I'm one of the blessed" superiority that grates on people's nerves and is probably not quite what Jesus had in mind. I'm sure it doesn't come from the good half of their hearts nearly so much as they would have you believe, but more from pride and a lack of both humility and empathy. Their religion would lose its luster if they achieved their goal of converting everyone, because a major part of the appeal is the exclusivity and permission they feel the Almighty has granted them to judge. It's one thing I can say I like about Catholicism. It's ancient and well-worn so that Catholics really don't care to come at you with their fervor. It's just a part of their lives and has been since they were born. The ones who have the least perspective are the born again types. I don't have the time or desire to get into back-and-forth wars about how awful people think Evangelicals are. So, in relation to the topic of the thread, I chose to interject a comment from my perspective. Which is that as people become more humble, they realize that the Evangelical Christian they are criticizing is just a person, who is imperfect, just as they are. To me, that's part of what submission is. And I realize that non-believers sometimes have a hard time with that (I have a hard time with that!!!). So I can see why, when one does not open themselves up with a humble and submissive heart, Evangelicals can be grating and annoying. Heck, ALL people can be grating and annoying. (OK, even me ) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
writergal Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) John Cleese <3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCyW8hkKvXc Edited March 23, 2014 by writergal 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Haydn Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 No, 2 night stand was my fave. Are we still on topic? Pretty good, but if you can get your hands on the World Tour Of Scotland series, it is hands down the best thing he ever did. Billy reading William McGonagall's "Bridge Of Tay" in a blizzard - priceless! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pickflicker Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 John Cleese <3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCyW8hkKvXc Now you've done it! Can't help myself! http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjz16xjeBAA# 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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