Question for women who've been in abusive relationships

[spiderowl]

I have a friend who was in an abusive relationship. This is not the first one. She is an intelligent woman and I can't understand how she could have met 2 (possibly 3) guys who have been physically violent towards her. I am trying to understand this because it goes beyond all reason. She doesn't enjoy the violence and is terribly shocked. Either she's very unlucky or she's somehow picking guys who turn out to be dangerous.

 

So I'd like to ask women that have been in abusive relationships what it was that attracted them to the guy in the first place? Was the guy charming, exciting, clever, sexy? What was it that made him interesting?

 

I'm sure it's possible for a guy to be charming and then change (and women too), but were there signs that the guy was different in some way?

 

I'm just don't know what to think about my friend. I'm seriously beginning to wonder if she's crazy and I'm just not recognising the signs. She seems a normal, decent person to me.

[spiderowl]

Any thoughts? I am trying to understand what I'm missing here.

[gaius]

I haven't been in an abusive relationship but I do tend to gravitate toward a certain type of woman that can be difficult. It's the pattern that was imprinted on me growing up. Doesn't really matter how smart or dumb you are, what turns you on turns you on. She's probably seeking out that kind of thing in men without realizing it.

[beach]

It was all I knew. Started in my child hood. I believed it was normal.

 

It took a ton of money and extreme help to sift through my past.

 

When a feeling is "normal" it is easier to gravitate to normal rather than explore the fear of the unknown.

 

What you know is what you do - it's how you consciously CHOOSE to participate.

 

These traits and beliefs are ingrained at a very early age.

 

Unlearning that kind if "normal" takes courage and strength.

 

Relearning a new way takes even more courage and strength. Letting go of the only way you've ever know isn't easy.

[CarrieT]

When you feel so poorly about yourself - for whatever reason - you accept the abuse as "probably what you deserve" or "better than nothing" or "the best you can get."

[beach]

When you feel so poorly about yourself - for whatever reason - you accept the abuse as "probably what you deserve" or "better than nothing" or "the best you can get."

 

Not true in many cases I have experience with.

 

Family of origin plays the biggest role.

 

How can you choose differently - until you realize it is NOT normal?

 

How can you know you're sleeping until you wake up?

[M30USA]

I haven't been in an abusive relationship but I do tend to gravitate toward a certain type of woman that can be difficult. It's the pattern that was imprinted on me growing up. Doesn't really matter how smart or dumb you are, what turns you on turns you on. She's probably seeking out that kind of thing in men without realizing it.

 

This is why I'm choosing to remain single.

[somedude81]

I would guess that the one thing all abusers had in common was that they were all men.

 

All a woman can do is try to weed out the guys who could be abusers.

 

The two most important questions to ask are.

 

1. Have you ever hit a woman?

2. Do you believe that it's acceptable to hit a woman?

 

It's up to each individual to decide what answers they'll accept.

[beach]

I would guess that the one thing all abusers had in common was that they were all men.

 

All a woman can do is try to weed out the guys who could be abusers.

 

The two most important questions to ask are.

 

1. Have you ever hit a woman?

2. Do you believe that it's acceptable to hit a woman?

 

It's up to each individual to decide what answers they'll accept.

 

Molestation has nothing to do with hitting a woman or little girl.

 

Controlling and unkind words have nothing to do with hitting another person.

 

Women abuse too - it's not only men.

 

It's not confined to physical harm.

 

Abuse comes in many ways.

[somedude81]

Molestation has nothing to do with hitting a woman or little girl.

 

Controlling and unkind words have nothing to do with hitting another person.

 

Women abuse too - it's not only men.

 

It's not confined to physical harm.

 

Abuse comes in many ways.

This thread is about physical violence.

[GemmaUK]

I have a friend who was in an abusive relationship. This is not the first one. She is an intelligent woman and I can't understand how she could have met 2 (possibly 3) guys who have been physically violent towards her. I am trying to understand this because it goes beyond all reason. She doesn't enjoy the violence and is terribly shocked. Either she's very unlucky or she's somehow picking guys who turn out to be dangerous.

 

So I'd like to ask women that have been in abusive relationships what it was that attracted them to the guy in the first place? Was the guy charming, exciting, clever, sexy? What was it that made him interesting?

 

I'm sure it's possible for a guy to be charming and then change (and women too), but were there signs that the guy was different in some way?

 

I'm just don't know what to think about my friend. I'm seriously beginning to wonder if she's crazy and I'm just not recognising the signs. She seems a normal, decent person to me.

 

I'm so sorry that your friend has gone through this.

She isn't crazy.

 

Do either of you own a kindle or have the free kindle app on your phone or pc?

Take a look at this - it's a free kindle book. It is a bit of s shocking read but it'll show you how things can escalate. It's a short read and only took me a couple of hours maximum.

The Jealousy Game: When Jealous Relationships Become Dangerous eBook: Mandy White: Amazon.co.uk: Kindle Store

 

Abuse can come many forms, verbal, emotional and also physical and there's usually a pattern to it and signs to recognise it.

 

The kind of woman who attracts these type of men (although abuse can come from either partner

 

Abuse can come from men and women too.

I'm only talking about abuse from a female point of view as your friend is female and so am I. It's the side of the subject I have learned more about since experiencing someone attempting to emotionally abuse me in my last relationship. My guy was emotionally and verbally abusive but predominantly was trying to control me. He partly succeeded in this but didn't do terribly well as I would call him out and tell him he was being ridiculous.

 

There is a type that men go for too and your friend needs to be aware of this.

She is usually, empathetic, kind, caring, supportive and honestly could probably benefit from learning how to be more assertive (same for me on that front).

The other big big thing is that women who end up in abusive relationships are really good at just ignoring their instincts and thinking that behaviours are normal when they aren't.

 

The abuser is a huge charmer (mine swept me off my feet) and I suspect your friend was swept off her feet by the men who treated her like this also.

So he really is a prince charming, treats you so well, is seen as a great guy by his friends and colleagues.

One of the first few signs can be a bit of jealousy, this can make a woman feel flattered. A bit of healthy jealousy is kinda nice and makes you feel like he is thinking 'she is my girl'.

The problem is that it doesn't stop there...it escalates and can escalate into other types of behaviour.

 

There is another brilliant book that I have read also.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Spot-Dangerous-Before-Involved/dp/0897934474/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1395574247&sr=1-1&keywords=how+to+spot+a+dangerous+man+before+you+get+involved

 

This book explains the different kinds of dangerous men and lists signals to watch out for.

In my view forewarned is forearmed.

If your friend wants to change and not meet and get involved with these types of men she would benefit from reading it.

It's written by a psychologist who has interviewed not only the victims of abuse but also the abusers.

 

I found that the chapters on The Permanent Clinger and The Parental Seeker pretty much summed up the man I had been dating but the traits in those men can also apply to The Abusive or Violent Man.

But also some of the signs to recognise in the Abuisve or Violent Man were signs I also saw in my guy.

 

This part is the list of signs for the Abusive or Violent Man from the book but not all of these signs need to be apparent for a man to become a physical abuser:

 

 

 

1. Talks down to you, criticises you, calls you names, or otherwise uses belittling language against you.

 

2. Refers to his previous partners in negative, demeaning ways.

 

3. Attempts to control or dominate your life choices, small or large.

 

4. Tries to dictate your spiritual or religious beliefs.

 

5. Is frequently irritable.

 

6. Raises his voice, yells or screams, even when carrying on a 'normal' conversation.

 

7. Yells and screams and seems 'too worked up' when he gets into an argument with you or others.

 

8. Has a history of assaults against other people.

 

9. Has harmed animals or treated them cruelly.

 

10. Has set destructive fires.

 

11. Becomes violent or out of control when using drugs or alcohol.

 

12. Punches walls or throws things when angry.

 

13. Seems to experience anger as his most frequent emotion.

 

14. Blames you or others for his anger or outbursts.

 

15. Has trouble in other relationships because of his anger.

 

16. Has previously been sent to anger management training.

 

17. Has previously been sent to substance abuse treatment.

 

18. Has been suspended from school or work for anger or fighting.

 

19. Hangs around other people known to be violent.

 

20. Has a short fuse or a hot temper.

 

21. Gets angry when confronted, questioned or corrected.

 

22. Is preoccupied with violent movies, TV or video games.

 

23. Idealises acts of violence and destruction.

 

24. Uses words such as 'killed', 'smashed' and 'kicked' in his everyday language.

 

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 12, 13, 14, 15, 20 & 21 all applied to the man I was dating so there is a fairly high possibility things could have got much worse for me had I stuck around.

 

Another thing to point out is that it can be very hard to get away from these types of men as they can easily switch from abusive back to the absolute charmer.

 

I really would recommend a read of both of these books. They are both easy to understand too and straight to the point.

[Silly_Girl]

He 'fitted' with me really well. I had no way of knowing this wasnt natural (natural as I understand it to be in my current relationship). He made himself kind of indispensable. He sold himself as my biggest ally/fan (I didn't realise he was alienating me from others). He provoked sympathy in me (tough childhood). He convinced me how hard done by he was by others (main example - his ex with whom he had 2 kids). He was fun to be around. The sex was great.

 

And then he would pull away, or do something to violate the relationship, and make me feel as though I would be lost without him. The cycle got worse which resulted in heated rows, which resulted in violence.

 

Because I had chosen to divorce my ex (my son's dad) I had a deep-seated irrational belief I HAD to make the relationship work and if I was hurting or suffering then it was no more than I had put my ex-husband and son through. So I thought I deserved it.

 

I became de-skilled by the man. I had no perspective. Life became about survival and damage limitation leaving me unable to grasp what a mess I was in.

 

When he first shouted at my son in anger, scaring him, I began my mental plan to leave. I knew as the years progressed my son would grow in size and want to protect me and I feared for his safety. I don't recognise the girl/woman I was then. She is alien to me but I feel very sorry and sad for her

[spiderowl]

Thank you all so much for your thoughts on this. I didn't see the replies until just now.

 

"She is usually, empathetic, kind, caring, supportive and honestly could probably benefit from learning how to be more assertive (same for me on that front)."

 

This is what I don't get. She is all these things and she is assertive too, even a bit daring at times. I can't see how someone like that can get involved with a guy who treats her so badly. I am not sure she will get out and seems to be in some kind of denial, saying she's fine when she's clearly not. She has moved around a lot before I met her, so I guess I don't know what's happened before. She's not a close friend.

 

The signs of abuse in a guy would put me off. I went out with a guy many years ago, once, and at one point he pushed me, supposedly jokingly, but I felt uneasy about such jokes, and decided then and there that he was a risk. I suppose such things can creep up on you, especially if you have already become emotionally attached or dependent in some way.

 

Interesting what one poster said about the guy pulling away and leaving her thinking he'd abandoned her. I guess that push/pull type of relationship can be more compelling if you don't realise what's happening, with relief that they haven't left, and then the tables turn.

[CarrieT]

Not true in many cases I have experience with.

Just offering one perspective... In this case, mine.

[thecrucible]

I've been in abusive relationships and honestly it's a real problem for me. I still find myself gravitating towards guys with abusive tendencies. I've realised why and doing work to change it. But I have got into a certain pattern of finding that kind of guy attractive. It's frustrating because I want to change but can't

 

 

I don't even realise I'm doing it because I don't realise they're going to be like that until I've dated them for a certain amount of time and after the initial charm has faded. I actually suspect men that are too charming at first because it looks like the type of guy I'm trying to avoid.

 

 

Trust me. It really sucks when you form that pattern of behaviour. I'm the same btw. I'm intelligent, university educated and yet I pick those guys. Meanwhile I've rejected perfectly decent guys because I don't get that gut-wrenching feeling for them. It's hard because I know where I am going wrong but I can't change it. :/

 

 

There is a type that men go for too and your friend needs to be aware of this.

She is usually, empathetic, kind, caring, supportive and honestly could probably benefit from learning how to be more assertive (same for me on that front).

The other big big thing is that women who end up in abusive relationships are really good at just ignoring their instincts and thinking that behaviours are normal when they aren't.

 

The abuser is a huge charmer (mine swept me off my feet) and I suspect your friend was swept off her feet by the men who treated her like this also.

So he really is a prince charming, treats you so well, is seen as a great guy by his friends and colleagues.

One of the first few signs can be a bit of jealousy, this can make a woman feel flattered. A bit of healthy jealousy is kinda nice and makes you feel like he is thinking 'she is my girl'.

The problem is that it doesn't stop there...it escalates and can escalate into other types of behaviour.

 

 

Totally sounds like me and exes...Need to work on that.

Edited March 26, 2014 by thecrucible

[Candy_Pants]

IME, the men were charming, intelligent, both great fathers, had lots of passion for art and music. Though they were witty and very smart, they both felt insecure when they discovered my intelligence, and after a while they began to belittle me in front of others. At first I took it as a joke, until I noticed the pattern and retaliated (instead of leaving).

 

The first one manipulated my emotions with sex and jealousy. I was essentially his child's female caretaker, and he used his son as a weapon. Playing on the fact I didn't want to abandon him (due to my own issues resulting from a traumatic childhood).

 

The abuse happens gradually, it must or the abuser risks being discovered for who they truly are, and being left. After the first abuser threw me across a room, I left. Months later he had shown some real change and I agreed to have dinner with him. Mistake. I was nearly sucked back in.

 

The second abuser is my current husband. His abuse was/is never physical, and while I have a multitude of "reasons" to excuse his behavior, the truth is, he's changing. I was ready to leave. He's agreed to go to MC and so far it's improved our relationship.

 

I think I get involved with abusive men because I am attracted to their charm and passion. I succumb to the twisted challenge. And I am a loyal person so even after I realize what is going on I stay.

 

My intellect, and your friend's, have nothing to do with it.

[GemmaUK]

This is going to possibly sound really strange.

 

I was fascinated by my guy's behaviour to an extent. I couldn't believe what I was hearing from him and actually thought a lot of it to be a joke.

I honestly didn't take some things he said seriously, not at all.

 

The way he said some of the things he did to me made them seem lighthearted. He only shouted at me twice from memory in our 7 months together.

 

One of the last times I saw him we were having a discussion while at a hotel on a weekend away about my daily life. He always wanted to know exactly where I was and what I was doing if I was not on skype to him of an evening.

Back story for that week:

The week prior I had had to explain that I was at the shop. This wasn't enough and he wanted to know what it was that I was there for. It was toilet rolls.

Also, that same week there was an evening where I had said I needed to get some things done at home and prep for our weekend away (weekend with him) and I wasn't likely to finish work until about 8pm so probably wouldn't be free for a call as I had a lot to do.

I got home, had some food, washed up and started to get things sorted and around 10pm he sent me an angry text asking what the hell I was doing. This was because I hadn't been online at all. I replied to say I was doing what I said I would be doing. He told me that nothing should take that long so asked me exactly what I was doing. I had to explain my evening and tell him that right at that time I was cutting my toenails.

 

To me, at the time it was ridiculous so when we were at the hotel having the discussion I said so.

I just wanted him to realise that sometimes daily life is too boring to mention and I didn't understand why he needed to know my every move.

He said sorry and said he understood. The convo then straight away switched to what we were going to do for the day.

I was at the time taking off my watch as I was jumping in the shower. I shower every morning and we only had half an hour before checking out.

I got up off the bed and walked over to grab my handbag off the dressing table (I was in full view of him). I sat back on the bed and opened a zip in my bag while we were still talking about the day ahead.

I had no reason at all to think I had done anything wrong or anything that needed an explanation.

He suddenly huffed at me and asked why I had abandoned the conversation. I was stunned and had no idea what he was talking about and looked at him.

He then said that I had got up while we were talking about our plans and just walked away.

 

I asked 'you mean, to get my handbag?'

He said 'Yes.'

 

I said that I was still in the conversation and that I had literally walked 4ft away from the bed and back again, just to get my bag because I needed something from it before going in the shower.

 

 

He then said 'No, you just walked away and left me mid conversation and anyway, what on earth do you need from your bag when we are talking?'

 

I replied calmly 'I have my period, you already know this. I need a tampon, they are in my bag.'

I didn't shout but did refer him back to the other conversation we had had and said that yet again, you need to know my every move, why?

 

He had stood up by this time and he literally threw himself - all 18 stone of himself on the bed. The bed cracked.

 

I quietly got up, grabbed my stuff and went for a shower.

 

We did go out that day and kinda ignored what had happened.

To me though, it was all completely bizarre!

[GemmaUK]

Thank you all so much for your thoughts on this. I didn't see the replies until just now.

 

"She is usually, empathetic, kind, caring, supportive and honestly could probably benefit from learning how to be more assertive (same for me on that front)."

 

This is what I don't get. She is all these things and she is assertive too, even a bit daring at times. I can't see how someone like that can get involved with a guy who treats her so badly. I am not sure she will get out and seems to be in some kind of denial, saying she's fine when she's clearly not. She has moved around a lot before I met her, so I guess I don't know what's happened before. She's not a close friend.

 

 

The thing is he didn't start by treating her badly. He will have treated her very well.

 

What is happening in their relationship has built up slowly over time.

If one day everything was fine and he had suddenly just hit her then she would have been gone that time or the very next time it happened. This isn't how it progresses though.

 

Initially, he will have been sweet, kind, gentle, affectionate, given her gifts, paid compliments and treated her so well.

Over the next few months odd little things will have cropped up that were a problem. These things will have been something about her - her behaviour or her friends or her family and whatever the problem was would have been 'unacceptable' or 'difficult to live with' somehow.

Alongside those times when he has these issues with her he will also have still been a kind caring partner.

 

So, she then thinks he is a great guy still but well, maybe she could have done batter and yes perhaps 'xyz' was her fault. She takes responsibility for that and changes her behaviour so as not to cause a problem again because he really is a great guy.

 

A few weeks later and something else crops up. EG: She had been shopping and they didn't have his favourite coffee so she picks another one up that they have had before. He isn't happy about the replacement this time though and asks can she remember next time to get 'the other brand if the store run out again'.

So, she takes that on board, next time they have 'the other brand' so she gets that one as their usual coffee is still out of stock.

 

This time he isn't happy and asks 'why didn't you go across the road to the other store for the one I like? I do all these things for you, I take you out, buy you gifts, take you n holiday and you can't even be bothered to get the coffee I like'

 

So, she realises that yes, she really should have thought of going to the other store, it was silly of her not to think of that.

So, that is what she does from now on.

 

A few weeks later he says he doesn't like that she spends an afternoon a week with her mother. It means that they can never plan things, he really wants to take her away for a weekend but he'd like it to be a surprise - he can't do that though as she is 'always' with her mum.

 

So, she cuts down on the time she spends with her mum - the surprise weekend never materialises though...

She calls her mum instead and now only sees her once a month.

 

With the coffee scenario he is putting down her choice by saying it's basically no good.

With her mum, he is dangling a carrot that will never drop but he has achieved her being a little alienated from her mum.

 

Once the relationship gets as far as violence her confidence in herself and her choices is beaten down. She can seem perfectly fine to you but behind closed doors she is submissive.

She has also lost her regular support network - her mum and no doubt friends also.

She realises she is just difficult to live with - he tells her this and well, no other man would have her because of it....so by the time he hits her she may as well stay. He is right after all and she so culd have done things right by him but it was her own fault..all of it. He is rarely sweet and kind to her any more and when he is she laps it up - she has no one else much any more due to her own failings.

 

 

....and that has all been happening for a long time, every few weeks something new will have cropped up that she is no good at in his eyes.

 

Until she gains support and until she realises that she was never in the wrong anywhere near enough to deserve how he treats her now she will never leave - because she believes no one else would put up with her.

 

He has literally 'beaten her down' and now he is 'beating her up'

[turnera]

According to Why Does He Do That? Inside The Minds Of Angry And Controlling Men - the BIBLE on abuse, the one thing abusive men have in common is an incredible talent to hone in on a woman's weaknesses and use them to draw them in. If you make gestures that intimate you're self conscious about your nose, for example, he'll notice and he'll compliment you on your face, including your cute nose. Done! You're hooked!

 

The are INCREDIBLY charming and extremely good at making you feel you've hit the jackpot. You want what they say so badly that you overlook everything people warn you about.

 

We're all weak, we all have doubts about something. They figure those doubts out, convince you that you're wonderful anyway.

 

And then, once you're hooked, they turn and use those very things against you to shred your self esteem and convince you you're too stupid to make your own decisions, you're too unlovable to ever get any other man (and you'd better be grateful HE is willing to put up with you), and you're too nosy/bossy/ungrateful/stupid/fill in the blank to be ok on your own.

 

And of course, there's all the other things they do to ruin your will, like isolating you from anyone who would tell you what a POS he is, and questioning what you wear/say/think/do so you stop all those things to keep him from hurting your feelings. By the time he's done, you can barely function.

[turnera]

What Gemma describes is what I call the 'give in' method. He gets you to give in to just this one little thing - what could it hurt? Then he gets you to give in to another. And another and another and another, until you realize you've given up everything about who you are.

 

And you're so ashamed that you never dare tell anyone else; you work hard to look strong and confident to everyone else.

[GemmaUK]

What Gemma describes is what I call the 'give in' method. He gets you to give in to just this one little thing - what could it hurt? Then he gets you to give in to another. And another and another and another, until you realize you've given up everything about who you are.

 

And you're so ashamed that you never dare tell anyone else; you work hard to look strong and confident to everyone else.

 

Plus all of these things are so minor that they are not the kind of things you would tell friends or family about so by the time something serious happens it appears to have come from nowhere and the person suffering the abuse can often not be believed.

[turnera]

It's the frog in the pot of water.

[spiderowl]

This is really interesting and very useful, thanks. Looking back, was there any way of telling that the guy was potentially controlling or violent?

[GemmaUK]

This is really interesting and very useful, thanks. Looking back, was there any way of telling that the guy was potentially controlling or violent?

 

In the relationship I was in there were all of those signs which I listed below the checklist posted on page one of this thread.

 

The problem for me though was that I didn't know what they meant and didn't know that they were signs of possible future abuse at that time.

 

Also,I did the same thing as many people do and ignored my instincts.

 

Like I said though I took much of it as a joke and called him out on a lot of the ways he tried to control me. He didn't like it at all.

 

I did recognise the controlling parts but didn't know what they could lead to in terms of how his behaviour could progress. That has now come through learning and reading upon the subject.

 

I think the fact that I didn't know is what has taken me so long to process this relationship. I just kept having thoughts of things that happened but couldn't rationalise them. It was only reading up on controlling behaviour that lead me to look into more dangerous types of behaviour.

 

He was the only man who ever 'swept me off my feet' and yet it turned into my worst ever relationship. If anyone sweeps me off my feet again I will be watching out for other signs and listen to any instincts I have and act on them instead of ignoring them.

[GemmaUK]

Why Does He Do That? Inside The Minds Of Angry And Controlling Men - the BIBLE on abuse

 

I am reading some of the chapters from this book on Amazon just now. I have to agree - very good book!

It also explains the abusers thoughts and how he sees the great new relationship panning out but also explains what is going on in his head which is something I haven't yet found explained so well in anything else I have read. Thanks for mentioning it tumera.

 

I also had a bit of a shock this morning and remembered something else which used to happen and it all fits in and makes it all so much more obvious to me.

I've also been remembering our last weekend together a week before I ended it. There were a lot of things that happened that weekend and things leading up to it also. I had a feeling of fear for my safety that weekend during a massive argument. So much so that I ran down the hall and locked myself in the downstairs toilet.

Clearly I still have some processing to do. I'm feeling a bit numb just now.