Question for people 35+ who have never been married

[Radu]

It's a reality for older men who are exceptionally charismatic, rich, and/or hot. It's not the reality for the average older man.

 

As a woman who is actually pretty liberal as far as age gaps, I will say that older men (esp once they hit 50 and up) are not nearly as attractive to younger women as they think they are.

 

IMO I think men hear theories that men I guess "expire" later than woman and believe they dont expire at all. Hence, the broke and fat older men I meet who think they are god; gift to young women.

 

The Hugh Hefners and Rupert Murdochs of the world get around this by being filthy rich.

 

Agreed.

But here's another thing that i doubt went through the head of the poster i replied above [not you obviously].

 

It's more likely for men to 'wake up', to mature later on in life than earlier in life.

This, added to the fact that historically it was the man's responsability to provide and that's a very good explanation for why women tended to marry older men in the past.

It was a necessity, but some view it as the horrible subjugation of women ... in fact by their opinions, men were loafers who let their women work for them ... bastards !!!

 

Even today in the developed countries it has not completely went away, but if you read posts like some of the ones in this thread [and of other posters who are not active anymore], you would think that there is mind-altering chemichal out there that the men know in secret to manufacture, to manipulate and abuse poor poor women.

[RedRobin]

nobody is pure submissive and pure dominant.

 

Good. We agree on something.

 

Most men like women who are somewhat submissive.

 

And most women don't like men who are unbending macho a holes either. Mention the word compromise though... And all the macho chest pounding ensues... Men who are secure in their manhood aren't afraid of compromise and aren't afraid of showing their softer side.

 

In fact a degree of submissiveness enters what we refer to 'femininity', and defines it.

Only in your gender constrained world where you need to use your gender as ammunition to get your way and avoid the conversations that insure both people's needs are being met.

 

Being submissive does not mean however that you get taken for a ride, which does seem to be a misconception.

If being 'submissive' were considered a positive trait... Then more men would do it. As it is... Most men who talk like this apply it to women so they can get what they want without compromise. The never married guys of a certain age... Especially. They want 'dominance' without responsibility. The definition of a taker. Which is why I tend to avoid them.

[RedRobin]

OP, I admire your standards in a man, and it sounds like you come from a very solid family, and have high standards for yourself as well. You do come across as being pretty difficult to please, though, and as others have said, too heavy on the job interview while too light on the romance. Maybe since you are a woman living in a man's world, surrounded by men in your job, you've become a bit aggressive, demanding, and hardened. A lot of men, including high quality men, would be a bit put off by that in a romantic partner. Some of the traits men admire in a woman, which separates them from the men, are their ability to be tender, vulnerable, gentle, and caring. You have a pretty tough girl thing going on, which comes across a lot in your posts. I'm just saying, while it's great that you have high standards in a man, you may be passing up some great guys when you come on so hard like you seem to. No man is perfect. And you may do well to let that tough exterior to soften sometimes. Just a suggestion. I do admire the high standards you hold a man to, and I do think quality men will try to measure up to them if they are within reason. But I do think you may be coming on too strong sometimes. Hopefully you don't mind that I gave you feedback on this.

 

I am very capable of those qualities. It is why I have a number of very close friends.. Both male and female.

 

I find that balanced people have both... As the need arises. I don't want men who think it is my job to be those things and he doesn't. That's a taker in my opinion. An emotional parasite.

 

Thank you for your feedback.

[salparadise]

A lot of men, including high quality men, would be a bit put off by that in a romantic partner. Some of the traits men admire in a woman, which separates them from the men, are their ability to be tender, vulnerable, gentle, and caring. You have a pretty tough girl thing going on, which comes across a lot in your posts.

 

As much as I try not to be overly presumptive, it seems fairly apparent that this is a defense designed to shield her from re-experiencing the pain from previous loss. She's using a cognitive/rational approach to avoid emotional injury. In effect, she's creating a guarantee by tightening the criteria to the point that it eliminates that possibility (as well as others). I also suspect that there are defenses protecting defenses, like the layers of an onion.

 

Ekhart Tolle calls it embracing the pain body in his book "A New Earth." We can't eliminate the pain body as our suffering becomes part of who we are, and we can't really experience joy without suffering. What we have to do is recognize it, then move it to the side so that we can continue our journey unencumbered.

 

RedRobin, have you read "A New Earth?" It's an amazing book. Probably the single most helpful thing I read as I was going through divorce a few years ago. I think it's available as an audio book which may be even better... lay down, close your eyes and go into alpha mode while listening.

[Radu]

Good. We agree on something.

I hope we will also agree on not quoting out of context.

 

 

And most women don't like men who are unbending macho a holes either. Mention the word compromise though... And all the macho chest pounding ensues... Men who are secure in their manhood aren't afraid of compromise and aren't afraid of showing their softer side.

Masculinity is not divorced from compromise.

Just as being feminine does not mean that you have to bend over to his every whim.

 

Being masculine is an attitude, and if someone associates it automatically with being macho and pounding your chest, then i feel really sorry for that person ... it would also explain certain things [probably].

 

 

Only in your gender constrained world where you need to use your gender as ammunition to get your way and avoid the conversations that insure both people's needs are being met.

I don't even understand what you wrote.

Can you translate this for me ?

Anyone ?

I said '" In fact a degree of submissiveness enters what we refer to 'femininity', and defines it".

 

This is not a joke, i really don't understand your statement.

 

If being 'submissive' were considered a positive trait... Then more men would do it. As it is... Most men who talk like this apply it to women so they can get what they want without compromise. The never married guys of a certain age... Especially. They want 'dominance' without responsibility. The definition of a taker. Which is why I tend to avoid them.

Now i see i wasn't wrong about your posts, about the smell of misandry coming off it.

 

---

 

How do you keep your eyebrows RR ?

Arched down or up ?

[joystickd]

I hope we will also agree on not quoting out of context.

 

 

 

Masculinity is not divorced from compromise.

Just as being feminine does not mean that you have to bend over to his every whim.

 

Being masculine is an attitude, and if someone associates it automatically with being macho and pounding your chest, then i feel really sorry for that person ... it would also explain certain things [probably].

 

 

 

I don't even understand what you wrote.

Can you translate this for me ?

Anyone ?

I said '" In fact a degree of submissiveness enters what we refer to 'femininity', and defines it".

 

This is not a joke, i really don't understand your statement.

 

 

Now i see i wasn't wrong about your posts, about the smell of misandry coming off it.

 

---

 

How do you keep your eyebrows RR ?

Arched down or up ?

 

I have wondered about that since the drive a motorcycle post. Seems she sees ride as a submissive term

[regine_phalange]

How would you people describe masculine and feminine? eg in the workplace or in the relationship (with examples, so I can understand). If it's not considered off topic of course.

[Radu]

How would you people describe masculine and feminine? eg in the workplace or in the relationship (with examples, so I can understand). If it's not considered off topic of course.

 

When i think of masculine, i think of my dad and his marriage to my mom.

It's hard to explain in words, but i'll try.

 

He was very good in his field, he had a mind of his own.

He was not a bad person, not a mean person.

He started his own business, and it went well.

He kept very good morals in his private life and at work, he was not someone to approve of affairs.

He also had an incredible ability [for a guy ... much more than my mom had it] to read someone ... i had to learn body language and ppl, he learned it naturally and he was very good at it.

My mom saw him as a tower of strength, but he could be pretty emotional too.

He was unapologetic about being humble even when he could afford to not be humble [and at the time he could easily afford it].

When his business took off, he didn't go mad with power, he started helping his family to succeed too.

He was pretty firm and strict but also incredibly fair.

Drama made him sick to his stomach, and being phony even more so ... he would be sick all night after one of those communist meetings [he hated communism and hated the fact that he had to pretend to like it].

He definitely made the decisions in my family, which is odd because my mom is very strong and independent too [she was competitive in a male dominated field]. My mom definitely gave her input and many times it went like she said, but he was almost always the one who said 'let's do it this way'.

 

I don't know about the workplace part, i never worked with women in the workplace [at most one].

[regine_phalange]

Thank you for taking the time to write these examples for me.

 

I asked because I have always wondered about what makes "masculine" traits masculine, and "feminine" traits feminine. And I always thought that both polarities in the end do the same things but in a different way and with a different "air".

 

Even though Im not a man, I'm not sure that femininity is a matter of submission. I think it probably is a matter of "softened edges" (eg one can say the same thing with 10000 different tones of voice and choice of words, and give a different impression). When it comes to few female friends of mine, I always felt they had a very straightforward (at times aggressive) way of acting and speaking, which I thought was "masculine".

[Radu]

Agreed.

 

If i had to say it again, i'd summarize it as the way you act, speak and dress.

That's why just being born in one gender can't put you square in the cathegory of having those traits; some women/men just don't fit their those types well, and let's not forget about men and women who are transgender.

 

They are both 2 different paths to the same objective, but at the same time also 2 paths that are complementary, that need each other.

[Anela]

Lol. Ageism again. The age gap only bothers the old women that can't get a man. Maybe it's because they are burned out. It happens to men too. It's better a turnout than a burnout.

 

Enough with the comments about "old women"! I remember you crying over a woman, and how old are you?

 

I don't want to be involved with a man that much older than me, either. The men are more guilty of ageism than women are - their chasing after the youth that has passed for them, and expecting women their own age to just accept they aren't attractive/wanted anymore.

[Anela]

Agreed.

But here's another thing that i doubt went through the head of the poster i replied above [not you obviously].

 

It's more likely for men to 'wake up', to mature later on in life than earlier in life.

This, added to the fact that historically it was the man's responsability to provide and that's a very good explanation for why women tended to marry older men in the past.

It was a necessity, but some view it as the horrible subjugation of women ... in fact by their opinions, men were loafers who let their women work for them ... bastards !!!

 

 

If that's the case, and the argument is going to keep going back to the hunter/gatherer age, when it comes to telling women how their expectations are stupid, then I guess the men here should accept that women want tall, hot, wealthy men, of ANY age, who would make a good provider, and stop attacking women for THEIR preferences.

[RedRobin]

I especially like how some people twist my desire for an equal partner, a committed partner, into some kind of tirade against 'men'.

 

 

Or, GASP, driving, riding, whatever my own motorcycle is somehow some kind of major statement... never mind that men get to drive, ride, whatever they do all the time and no one bats an eyelash.

 

 

It makes me wonder who is REALLY afraid here. It's not me. I just want a peer. Always have. I don't think it is unreasonable.

 

 

I don't need someone to tell me what to do, and I don't want to tell anyone else what to do.

 

 

I want someone at a similar age, life stage, and health as me.

 

 

I want someone who isn't afraid to be nurturing and caring too.

 

 

I'm not asking for anything I'm not willing to offer.... but SOME of you guys, clearly, have gotten used to the idea that you can get something for nothing... AND you have forever to mess around and figure it out too!!

 

 

...and again, all you do is apply cash and what??? what you think passes as superior wisdom in the ways of the world? What else are some of you guys bringing to the table besides your d*ck and your money, because I don't see it.

 

 

Seriously. Get out of the stone age.

[KathyM]

I am very capable of those qualities. It is why I have a number of very close friends.. Both male and female.

 

I find that balanced people have both... As the need arises. I don't want men who think it is my job to be those things and he doesn't. That's a taker in my opinion. An emotional parasite.

 

Thank you for your feedback.

True, balanced people have both alpha and beta qualities. Because of socialization and hormones, men generally have more alpha qualities than beta, and women have more beta than alpha. Because you are living in a world that is predominantly men, you have developed more alpha qualities than typical for women, and a lot of men could be put off by that. I also think you use that harsh exterior as a defense mechanism because you've been hurt. I can understand that you wouldn't want a man who expects you to be submissive all the time, and that would certainly not be a match for you. I'm just saying that you kind of come across as seeing men in black and white terms, and that is going to weed out a lot of men who may be quality men. I mean, a guy had a ONS once in the past, and that is an instant dealbreaker for you, regardless of what his attitude is now? You may want to soften your approach, because it's coming across as pretty harsh, like you are waiting for the guy to say or do something you don't like, so you can throw him out. No man is perfect. You may be setting yourself up for an impossible standard to fulfill.

[joystickd]

I especially like how some people twist my desire for an equal partner, a committed partner, into some kind of tirade against 'men'.

 

 

Or, GASP, driving, riding, whatever my own motorcycle is somehow some kind of major statement... never mind that men get to drive, ride, whatever they do all the time and no one bats an eyelash.

 

 

It makes me wonder who is REALLY afraid here. It's not me. I just want a peer. Always have. I don't think it is unreasonable.

 

 

I don't need someone to tell me what to do, and I don't want to tell anyone else what to do.

 

 

I want someone at a similar age, life stage, and health as me.

 

 

I want someone who isn't afraid to be nurturing and caring too.

 

 

I'm not asking for anything I'm not willing to offer.... but SOME of you guys, clearly, have gotten used to the idea that you can get something for nothing... AND you have forever to mess around and figure it out too!!

 

 

...and again, all you do is apply cash and what??? what you think passes as superior wisdom in the ways of the world? What else are some of you guys bringing to the table besides your d*ck and your money, because I don't see it.

 

 

Seriously. Get out of the stone age.

Its not about getting something for nothing. I have to agree with Kathy on this one. You come off too masculine. The ride comment was about issues with submission. A real man doesn't want a submissive woman they want one that challenges them but at the same time is feminine about it. It's not about gender roles but the context and the energy associated with them. No woman wants a man with feminine qualities without the bigger context of masculine energy. It's kind of like the dots in the yin yang symbol.

 

You live with this assumption that men are users and out to do what they want without consequence. Men do suffer consequences for our actions. A lot of men on here see your words as a tirade against men because that is how it sounds. You talk about all the bad we do but then talk about how we can be better. Why would anyone want to show you the good when all you assume is the bad in men? It would be a waste of time to any man even one you desire

Edited March 31, 2014 by joystickd

[joystickd]

Enough with the comments about "old women"! I remember you crying over a woman, and how old are you?

 

I don't want to be involved with a man that much older than me, either. The men are more guilty of ageism than women are - their chasing after the youth that has passed for them, and expecting women their own age to just accept they aren't attractive/wanted anymore.

No I wasn't crying I was upset because a woman wasn't honest about how see felt about me. Sh*t anyone would get mad about someone lying to them. That is a big difference there. I look back on that and it was a blessing it didn't happen because I found out so much about her. She said lot of things about herself after it all happened that made me see it wasn't someone I would want to be with. Try harder next time to get me riled up ok

 

I'm saying ageism because you all make the fuss about younger women. All men have different motives and it's wrong to assume because it's not always about attractiveness and no one is asking you to date someone older as a matter of fact that woman that did me dirty was 20 years older than me. How about that for youth?

Edited March 31, 2014 by joystickd

[Canucklehead]

I especially like how some people twist my desire for an equal partner, a committed partner, into some kind of tirade against 'men'.

 

 

Or, GASP, driving, riding, whatever my own motorcycle is somehow some kind of major statement... never mind that men get to drive, ride, whatever they do all the time and no one bats an eyelash.

 

 

It makes me wonder who is REALLY afraid here. It's not me. I just want a peer. Always have. I don't think it is unreasonable.

 

 

I don't need someone to tell me what to do, and I don't want to tell anyone else what to do.

 

 

I want someone at a similar age, life stage, and health as me.

 

 

I want someone who isn't afraid to be nurturing and caring too.

 

 

I'm not asking for anything I'm not willing to offer.... but SOME of you guys, clearly, have gotten used to the idea that you can get something for nothing... AND you have forever to mess around and figure it out too!!

 

 

...and again, all you do is apply cash and what??? what you think passes as superior wisdom in the ways of the world? What else are some of you guys bringing to the table besides your d*ck and your money, because I don't see it.

 

 

Seriously. Get out of the stone age.

 

This does not sound like an empowered way of thinking.....

 

RR, sorry if this sounds condescending but softening your approach as Kathy suggests may not help you discover what you seek.

 

It may take a significant shift in perspective so that you might see and accept something different. I fear that you will never experience something better until you abandon this "locked-in with both barrels" approach.

 

There are a lot of conflict posts, which we all can possibly learn from. Everyone here on this thread would probably do well to use some introspection about their opinion here. I will leave now and perhaps look within as well. Hope you find reason to do the same.

[verhrzn]

Its not about getting something for nothing. I have to agree with Kathy on this one. You come off too masculine. The ride comment was about issues with submission. A real man doesn't want a submissive woman they want one that challenges them but at the same time is feminine about it. It's not about gender roles but the context and the energy associated with them. No woman wants a man with feminine qualities without the bigger context of masculine energy. It's kind of like the dots in the yin yang symbol.

 

I love men with feminine qualities without the "masculine energy." The yin-yang should be about individuals, not about gender. Just because I'm female, I shouldn't have to have a "feminine energy" to find a partner. Instead I should find a partner whose energy balances out my own, whether mine is feminine or masculine.

 

I take issue with the idea that a "real man" should want X. A person's desires and preferences should not somehow underline or undermine their sexual identity. There is no such thing as a real "man." Men should not be defined so narrowly.

[sabre10]

I'm over 35 have never been married I've had 3 serious relationships, the one most recent which ended 5 months ago and crushed me I don't necessarily think unmarried people are less committed, sometimes it might just be circumstantial or being at different places and that's the risk Falling out of love sucks and sometimes it's hard to trust again

[Lokie]

I especially like how some people twist my desire for an equal partner, a committed partner, into some kind of tirade against 'men'.

 

 

Or, GASP, driving, riding, whatever my own motorcycle is somehow some kind of major statement... never mind that men get to drive, ride, whatever they do all the time and no one bats an eyelash.

 

 

It makes me wonder who is REALLY afraid here. It's not me. I just want a peer. Always have. I don't think it is unreasonable.

 

 

I don't need someone to tell me what to do, and I don't want to tell anyone else what to do.

 

 

I want someone at a similar age, life stage, and health as me.

 

 

I want someone who isn't afraid to be nurturing and caring too.

 

 

I'm not asking for anything I'm not willing to offer.... but SOME of you guys, clearly, have gotten used to the idea that you can get something for nothing... AND you have forever to mess around and figure it out too!!

 

 

...and again, all you do is apply cash and what??? what you think passes as superior wisdom in the ways of the world? What else are some of you guys bringing to the table besides your d*ck and your money, because I don't see it.

 

 

Seriously. Get out of the stone age.

 

Admittedly I skipped from page 2 to page 11 in this thread, so I may have missed something. I just wanted to offer my support, particularly to this post.

 

I live in a large, liberal city on one of the coasts in the States. I am 51 and have never been married. I have had three longterm live-together relationships with men. I have always supported myself and have rarely shared funds with my partners.

 

Women have work opportunities they never had before. Along with the advent of birth control, a woman can live a full, rewarding, fulfilling life today without ever getting married. I can imagine this reality creates some fear in men. Any moral high ground and/or insults reveal this. I would love to have this same conversation in 10 years, 20 years, 50 years. I don't think the movement is as strong as the technology revolution, but it's definitely gaining tsunami strength.

 

We all deserve to be seen, heard and loved. I hope you find a loving relationship soon.

 

L.

[divinegrace]

I found this thread so interesting, I just had to post.

 

I agree that women are becoming more independent... And as an independent woman who is fully self supporting of myself and two children, I believe whole heatedly that I have the capacity and ability to remain so. Am I a feminist, you betcha! I have NEVER had a financial expectation on a past partner and certainly do not on my current one. I seek love, respect, communication, chemistry and goodness in us as a couple. A couple first, and a potential family second.

 

I am dating a man 11 years older (I'm almost 40, he's 51). I believe that this age difference is not an issue as the last thing I would ever expect from him is "to take care of me" financially. In fact, if our relationship were to move forward I think a discussion about prenups would be appropriate to protect our individual assets. He has worked hard to get where he is in life, and I would never want him to feel threatened that I would want to take any of it from him - or that he would be financially responsible to care for the kids. I am in a relationship because I seek a partner that enriches my soul through meaningful connected conversation, shared experiences, adventure, love and gratitude.

 

I think it's funny that some people think that an age difference should define a relationship, or that an age difference means that those involved are not able to share in the same passions, interests, abilities. That's really archaic and narrow thinking from my perspective. If I had believed that, my partner would not be in my life right now. A loss for me.

 

Finally, I do ponder the marriage thing. He has no desire to go down that road again, and I do. We've talked about this and I believe that should our relationship move in that direction, we will find a loving, equally respectful way to navigate this. Because of communication.

 

My wish for a posters in this thread is honest reflection and ultimate happiness whatever that looks like for you. If it means dating based upon a chronological number, ok. If it means choosing autonomy over partnership, cool. If it means dating someone and marrying them despite an age difference because you share LOVE, great. It's really about being honest with ourselves.

 

I wish everyone happiness. Simple as that.

Edited April 2, 2014 by divinegrace
Spelling

[RedRobin]

^^I have no problems being friends with men 5+ years older, but would not feel comfortable dating one.

 

 

My youth.. or what remains of it.. has value... if to no one else but myself, my friends, and family.

 

 

It's also a point I care to make on a societal level. The same way I reject men who have been promiscuous or had a so-called FWB.

 

 

I'm just one person... but just one person who has no intention of going along with what appears to me as the status quo so that a certain segment of society (ie. older men or promiscuous men) can benefit .... That's how I see it.

 

I'm quite aware that this limits my 'options'... I'm also aware that there are LOTS of ways for me to productively spend my time other than investing in those who haven't shown a pattern of commitment... who have slept around a lot... or think they can dawdle their lives away and snag a younger woman when he gets around to it.

Edited April 5, 2014 by RedRobin

[thefooloftheyear]

^^I have no problems being friends with men 5+ years older, but would not feel comfortable dating one.

 

 

My youth.. or what remains of it.. has value... if to no one else but myself, my friends, and family.

 

 

It's also a point I care to make on a societal level. The same way I reject men who have been promiscuous or had a so-called FWB.

 

 

I'm just one person... but just one person who has no intention of going along with what appears to me as the status quo so that a certain segment of society (ie. older men or promiscuous men) can benefit .... That's how I see it.

 

I'm quite aware that this limits my 'options'... I'm also aware that there are LOTS of ways for me to productively spend my time other than investing in those who haven't shown a pattern of commitment... who have slept around a lot... or think they can dawdle their lives away and snag a younger woman when he gets around to it.

 

 

I think what you need to understand is that older men aren't going around like creepy old predators looking for younger women...Its the other way around...Quality older men are actively sought after by attractive younger women...Its just a fact of life...Maybe thats the part that pisses you off...??

 

Maybe hate the game, not the player??

 

 

TFY

[Valen]

There are two school of thought regarding marriage:

 

In the first camp there are people who plan to get married so they are looking for the right partner. Marriage is a priority in their life.

 

In the second camp, there are people who want to find the right partner before they consider marriage. Finding the right partner is the priority in their life.

 

Notice the difference? In the first camp, some people feel the pressure they need to get married by a certain age and sometimes jump into marriage with the wrong partner, which leads to divorces. In the second camp, these people see the importance in taking the time to find their true match. They won't settle. They see too many marriages gone bad so they don't want to take it lightly just for the sake of being married so people won't think they are some losers or unable to commit.

 

I belong to the second camp. When I make a commitment I don't break it. All the girls I have ever said "I love you." I have never once dump them. Because I know exactly how I feel about a person. I know when I say something I meant it. So if ever the day come, where I find the love of my life and I say "til death do us part" I meant it with every soul of my being. And yes I'm over 35. I don't jump from relationships to relationships, I do not sleep around. All my life I spend it looking for that right person. I have gone through periods of being single for years because I don't believe in dating just to waste someone's time. So if OP think that all men over 35 who isn't married has commitment issue that's just your opinion. If you think a person who's been through divorces are more serious about marriages, then I find that rather ironic.

[RedRobin]

True, balanced people have both alpha and beta qualities. Because of socialization and hormones, men generally have more alpha qualities than beta, and women have more beta than alpha. Because you are living in a world that is predominantly men, you have developed more alpha qualities than typical for women, and a lot of men could be put off by that. I also think you use that harsh exterior as a defense mechanism because you've been hurt. I can understand that you wouldn't want a man who expects you to be submissive all the time, and that would certainly not be a match for you. I'm just saying that you kind of come across as seeing men in black and white terms, and that is going to weed out a lot of men who may be quality men. I mean, a guy had a ONS once in the past, and that is an instant dealbreaker for you, regardless of what his attitude is now? You may want to soften your approach, because it's coming across as pretty harsh, like you are waiting for the guy to say or do something you don't like, so you can throw him out. No man is perfect. You may be setting yourself up for an impossible standard to fulfill.

 

 

The problem isn't whether the guy had one ONS in the past... of course if his other relationship history indicated he was more relationship or commitment oriented, then I could overlook that.... especially if it were in the long distant past.

 

 

What I won't do is date any men with a recent history of casual sex, and especially not FWB. I don't care how he feels about it now or what story he tries to spin about it. After my divorce and later, my fiancée's death... I could have done those things too. And was tempted to as well (as many people here could attest to)... but I don't want to be a hypocrite.

 

 

Furthermore, I see it as a 'reward' for those guys... they do whatever they friggin want and call it 'personal growth', then try to snag some woman who has some discipline and a good head on her shoulders. Why don't I deserve the same in return??

 

 

A decent guy with a good head on his shoulders who doesn't define his self worth by how many women he sleeps with, how much younger they are than him... or what he can get away with. Seems pretty basic when put in writing.

 

 

Am I waiting for the guy to do or say something wrong? Not really. All of the things I'm talking about... the promiscuity, the inordinate attention on dating younger, the hangups about gender and stupid discussions about dominance/submission...

 

 

... the well-balanced men I associate with don't have these issues.

 

 

Heck, it doesn't even come up because they don't view a relationship is a one up/one down proposition... and they don't take advantage. Even when they could. It's kind of subtle at times... but very simple and obvious when I come across it IRL.