Out of Love so Easily?????

[LearningToMoveOn]

You totally get it---it's the way it ended. Poof, gone in an instant with a million unanswered questions. A complete disregard for the person who you shared everyday of your life with in some capacity. I'll never understand it all.

 

Again, you seem closer to recovery than me---you have accepted that it is over whereas I continue to hope. And, I know I shouldn't. He was VERY devastated on his d-day and I know he is giving his marriage his best attempt at R.

 

I am just confused with your story, you ended the A 6 months before d-day, but did not go complete NC until d-day?

 

We ended (I should say he ended it) 6 months prior to his D Day but we started up again 3 months later (and 3 months prior to his D Day). Things were "back on track" and we were beyond excited to have the opportunity to see each other several times the following week when his W saw some emails and confronted him. That's when he told me he was done contacting me.

 

Again, I'm closer to acceptance because of all the endings before D Day and all of the talks we were able to have at those times. We were both very conflicted because of our families and knew we had to stop being selfish. Our primary concern was our children and not wanting to ruin their lives. So, though his D Day came as a shock and I expected the chance to be able to talk to him about it, it's not shocking that it was a final end for us, given all of the times we had tried before. Sadly, we had to hit rock bottom to stop. I don't want to cause him any more pain and I'm sure he feels the same. I have answers to the majority of my questions because of all of the previous discussions. The only thing I'm left wondering is how he could be so harsh in the end and if he still cares about me. Those are just questions I have to live with not knowing the answers to.

[Hope Shimmers]

Mickey - to add something to what Owl said (hopefully without putting words in his mouth) is that, even if you would be initially happy to hear from him (and believe me, I understand that), there is nowhere for it to go, as you know. So NC would start again, and then you would not be at Week 9 but back at Day 1 in terms of your healing and pain lessening.

[veryhappy]

I'll address the in love part of your trauma (it hurts that bad because it's traumatic - and if you feel severly abandomed it probably has to do with something else as well).

 

The human brain can be in love with just one person at a time. The way it's built- you can read Helen Fisher. So if he told the truth with being in love with the wife, he was out of love with you. If he lied, he either can't read his own feelings or was one of the few to understand he needs to let you go, and tried to push you into understanding the two of you are over. Which ever happened, there's no future for you with him. I know it sucks. I know.

 

Men get warm and fuzzy by having sex. The oxytocin from it lasts them a week of interest in that sexual partner. If they were histeraccly bonding, that would explain him feeling in love with the wife. The real test is...after that goes away, are the real issues solved? Well, you're not part of it so does it make any difference?

 

To add, the way we remember an experience is based on the maximum pint and the ending. That's all. If he was overwhelmed on dday by betraying his wife, by her hurt and realizing he doesn't want to lose his life as he knows it, the pain of that becomes associated with the a, You are hung up on the maximum part. If he's hung up on the ending, you are done and it seems that you are.

 

Your goal in life is to make sure that if he comes back to resme the a, your answer will vary from hell no to go eff yourself. The worst you can do for yourself is take him back.

 

In terms of recovery, I'd say I saw one year as things getting better for many posters here and it was true for myself. I know it sounds a lot, but you'll get there as long as you know what you want.

Edited April 2, 2014 by cutedragon

[Cocochai]

Mickey, MuddyRock doesn't know your MM and has never spoken to him. He is telling you how he felt in his own situation and assuming your MM thinks the same way he does. He doesn't have a window into your MM's mind.

 

Furthermore, given that you were involved for 3 1/2 years with a man who told you he loved you, stuck by you through thick and thin with support and encouragement and told you he was planning a future with you, then suddenly switched his words totally the day after D day to the point where he is practically rubbing it in your face that he loves his W and is so happy, etc etc., it really sounds as if she is monitoring his communications with you and this is what she needs to hear.

 

I say this because if it was what he truly felt a man as supportive as he has been with you would handle the situation totally different. He would tell you he's figured out he loves his wife and wants to stay married to her. But, he would never rub your face in it the way he's doing. It's "me think the lady doth protest too much," obvious.

 

He's seems to be trying to prove something to his wife. I'm not saying he wants a D. He doesn't or he would D. But, in order to keep his M it seems to me he needs to say these things to satisfy her.

 

I'd be very surprised were he not to contact you at some point when the dust settles to talk with you and have closure or even to restart the A.

 

You, otoh, have an opportunity to move on to something much better. Count your lucky stars and do it! This guy isn't who you thought he was. He's bahaving like a spineless loser. And if she wants him, let 'er have 'im!

 

Please let us know when he contacts you"explaining" everything. I'll be very surprised if that doesn't happen. In the meantime stay NC with him and begin your healing.

 

Mickey, I hope you do keep us updated and let us know if he tries to reconnect in some way.

 

Either way, each week gets better with no contact.

[Mickey1982]

I'll address the in love part of your trauma (it hurts that bad because it's traumatic - and if you feel severly abandomed it probably has to do with something else as well).

 

The human brain can be in love with just one person at a time. The way it's built- you can read Helen Fisher. So if he told the truth with being in love with the wife, he was out of love with you. If he lied, he either can't read his own feelings or was one of the few to understand he needs to let you go, and tried to push you into understanding the two of you are over. Which ever happened, there's no future for you with him. I know it sucks. I know.

 

Men get warm and fuzzy by having sex. The oxytocin from it lasts them a week of interest in that sexual partner. If they were histeraccly bonding, that would explain him feeling in love with the wife. The real test is...after that goes away, are the real issues solved? Well, you're not part of it so does it make any difference?

 

To add, the way we remember an experience is based on the maximum pint and the ending. That's all. If he was overwhelmed on dday by betraying his wife, by her hurt and realizing he doesn't want to lose his life as he knows it, the pain of that becomes associated with the a, You are hung up on the maximum part. If he's hung up on the ending, you are done and it seems that you are.

 

Your goal in life is to make sure that if he comes back to resme the a, your answer will vary from hell no to go eff yourself. The worst you can do for yourself is take him back.

 

In terms of recovery, I'd say I saw one year as things getting better for many posters here and it was true for myself. I know it sounds a lot, but you'll get there as long as you know what you want.

 

 

cutedragon, I know that as a former OW you were not trying to be hurtful, but I find your comments somewhat stinging. Maybe because I am still very early in the recovery process I am still quite sensitive as opposed to be more than a year out, but I have to admit I was wounded after reading your post.

 

One problem I have with him being so in love with his wife is that in our final phone conversation which was two weeks after his d-day, his final three words to me were "I LOVE YOU." He did not need to say that and to be honest, I would have rathered that he had not. It keeps me from letting go of him regardless of the fact that he has not communicated in 9 weeks. I know that you and others who have read my thread tell me otherwise and by now are probably just sick and tired of trying to give this fool like me any more help. But, I still love him and miss him more than ever. I being 100% honest. Maybe when I'm tired of being in pain...I'll stop.

[RightThere]

One problem I have with him being so in love with his wife is that in our final phone conversation which was two weeks after his d-day, his final three words to me were "I LOVE YOU." He did not need to say that and to be honest, I would have rathered that he had not.

 

He probably meant "I lust for you". Either that or the old "I love you but I'm not in love with you".

 

If he loved you, he'd be with you. It's really as simple as that.

[Mickey1982]

He probably meant "I lust for you". Either that or the old "I love you but I'm not in love with you".

 

If he loved you, he'd be with you. It's really as simple as that.

 

 

hmmmmm...you've heard that one before, haven't you rightthere??????

[Hope Shimmers]

If he loved you, he'd be with you. It's really as simple as that.

 

It's actually not simple at all, nor is it true. There are many factors that can prevent someone from being with a person they love.

[Hope Shimmers]

cutedragon, I know that as a former OW you were not trying to be hurtful, but I find your comments somewhat stinging. Maybe because I am still very early in the recovery process I am still quite sensitive as opposed to be more than a year out, but I have to admit I was wounded after reading your post.

 

One problem I have with him being so in love with his wife is that in our final phone conversation which was two weeks after his d-day, his final three words to me were "I LOVE YOU." He did not need to say that and to be honest, I would have rathered that he had not. It keeps me from letting go of him regardless of the fact that he has not communicated in 9 weeks. I know that you and others who have read my thread tell me otherwise and by now are probably just sick and tired of trying to give this fool like me any more help. But, I still love him and miss him more than ever. I being 100% honest. Maybe when I'm tired of being in pain...I'll stop.

 

cutedragon - you were here in healing mode the last time I was actively posting, a year or two ago. Back then your posts were much like mickey's from what I can recall. I have noticed from your posts now that you seem to have a great deal of bitterness - which works for you if it allows you to heal and move on.

 

I do not agree with your statement that people can only love one person at a time though. I have in fact loved more than one person at a time, and I know my ex-MM does.

 

I am glad you found a way towards healing from your experience.

[veryhappy]

I do not agree with your statement that people can only love one person at a time though. I have in fact loved more than one person at a time, and I know my ex-MM does.

 

I didn't say loving more people is not possible. I was talking about being in love, that so much qouted cocaine similar high of the brain. Being in love means being focused on one human being, the special one at the moment. I didn't pull it out of my hat, I mentioned Helen Fisher. Mickey said her exAP wrote about being in love with the wife and I addressed that.

 

Mickey, I am sorry for hurting you. I've given you the facts and if you want to hold on to that "I love you" you can certainly continue to do so for the next how many years you choose to do so. There is a lot of bitterness around here because it's sad and bitter to realize that all those great words and feelings amount to absolutely nothing other than wasted emotions and time. Memories can only last that long especially if the ending was bad. You can read my old posts to see that I was just in much pain and agony and I know where you are coming from.

 

You can also tell your therapist that you'll get angry on your schedule. I'm sure she means well by wanting you to get angry, but you can't speed up your recovery. The day you'll wake up angry you'll be angry, trust me. It might take another contact with him, it may come in time while you remember the bad stuff you overlooked. Time and anger will put things in perspective. There's no shortcut and I know that where you are now you really don't want to hear it was just another sordid affair and not the special story you thought it was.

[Hope Shimmers]

I didn't say loving more people is not possible. I was talking about being in love, that so much qouted cocaine similar high of the brain. Being in love means being focused on one human being, the special one at the moment. I didn't pull it out of my hat, I mentioned Helen Fisher. Mickey said her exAP wrote about being in love with the wife and I addressed that.

 

Mickey, I am sorry for hurting you. I've given you the facts and if you want to hold on to that "I love you" you can certainly continue to do so for the next how many years you choose to do so. There is a lot of bitterness around here because it's sad and bitter to realize that all those great words and feelings amount to absolutely nothing other than wasted emotions and time. Memories can only last that long especially if the ending was bad. You can read my old posts to see that I was just in much pain and agony and I know where you are coming from.

 

You can also tell your therapist that you'll get angry on your schedule. I'm sure she means well by wanting you to get angry, but you can't speed up your recovery. The day you'll wake up angry you'll be angry, trust me. It might take another contact with him, it may come in time while you remember the bad stuff you overlooked. Time and anger will put things in perspective. There's no shortcut and I know that where you are now you really don't want to hear it was just another sordid affair and not the special story you thought it was.

 

Thanks for the clarification cutedragon. I personally do not believe in the whole "in love with" someone versus "loving" someone, Helen Fisher or not. Those "in love" feelings are called limerence and they generally fade. I also don't think those feelings turn on and off like a lightswitch, so I doubt that the ex-MM in mickey's life suddenly switched them on for his wife.

 

Not everyone is bitter. I am no longer bitter. I have let go of my anger. I have tried to put a spin of humor on it (eg, my signature), in fact. I regret many things that I did during the past several years and that won't change. I have come to terms with what the affair was, and what it wasn't. I know that my feelings for him and his for me were real. It doesn't change the outcome, but it does mean something, and it gives me hope for the future (not a future with him).

 

Hang in there mickey, and don't stop posting.

[veryhappy]

Mickey, read on the stages of grief if you haven't. Your reaction is very normal considering you are in denial. We can see beyond that point.

 

Tenacity, I haven't reached acceptance. Once I do I expect my bitterness to diminsh. The wasted emotions and time I mentioned refer mostly to the time spent to recover. I don't regret the time spent with him or negate the love there.

[Hope Shimmers]

Mickey, read on the stages of grief if you haven't. Your reaction is very normal considering you are in denial. We can see beyond that point.

 

Tenacity, I haven't reached acceptance. Once I do I expect my bitterness to diminsh. The wasted emotions and time I mentioned refer mostly to the time spent to recover. I don't regret the time spent with him or negate the love there.

 

It seems like I went through my stages of grief all over the place instead of in proper order. I would get angry all of a sudden, throughout the whole time, not just the beginning, and then get over it. I spent a LONG time in the bargaining and depression phases. During that time I did not deal well with hurtful comments from posters here (which is why I am no longer 'Tenacity' on this forum) but now it is much easier to just let them bounce off. It is still hard for me to see how hurt others (in earlier stages) feel from those comments though.

 

cd, I wish you a speedy progression to 'acceptance'! I am glad you are still here posting

[Mickey1982]

Thank you Hope and CuteDragon....I've been having waves of sadness today and really missing him. I read the post by cutedragon at a really 'bad' time.

 

This forum has been a lifesaver for me. I've felt so alone. I've only told one friend who is tired of hearing my story, has never been in an affair and told me to 'have another affair' to get over my exMM!!!!!

 

Anyway, you all give me support and that is all that matters right now---I live to be in your shoes and smile again.

[uneek74]

The human brain can be in love with just one person at a time. The way it's built- you can read Helen Fisher. So if he told the truth with being in love with the wife, he was out of love with you. If he lied, he either can't read his own feelings or was one of the few to understand he needs to let you go, and tried to push you into understanding the two of you are over. Which ever happened, there's no future for you with him. I know it sucks. I know.

 

Cute: This is yours and Helen Fisher's prospective: we can't take everything we read to be the gospel. Additionally, what we offer others is just our opinion, based on our own private logic. Some times we need to step back and not speak so much out of the hurt that is in us.

 

Mickey: Is is my hope that you will take your counselor's advice and to try to do the excercises that she has given you to help in your recovery.

I understand where you are, and where you are coming from. It is never easy to not have closure. I hope that you will begin to have the peace of mind that you are looking for. Sometimes some of the participants on these boards can really set a person two steps back on their road to recovery with the harshness, and internt counseling they try to implement her on LS. Good luck to you on your journey.

[Mickey1982]

I read something today that pretty much sums it all up for me in one sentence....

 

"I never knew this kind of pain existed…to loose someone that was never yours."

[uneek74]

Mickey, I think that sums it up for a lot of us FOW. Let's take it as a lesson and try to move on best we can.

[Cocochai]

Honestly Mickey (I wanted to PM you but I can't) you may have to stop reading posts here and other messages boards when it comes to people's harsh opinions on "the XMM not caring and blah blah blah"... For me it only prolongs the healing stage of moving on.

 

Whether or not it's the truth is irrlavent at this point and the only answers you can get are from the XMM but, u'll still wonder if it's based on lies because his actions spoke louder.

 

Try not to beat yourself over this and do things that's makes you feel better. Get a new hairstyle, go shopping or whatever it does that may help. Do counseling....

 

I actually have a male friend who I speak to about XMM issues but I say "it's my cousin and not me". So he won't judge from a personal level.

 

Just stay strong, stay healthy and move on at best.

[Mickey1982]

Mickey, I think that sums it up for a lot of us FOW. Let's take it as a lesson and try to move on best we can.

 

I met with my therapist this morning and cried the entire time. I thought I was doing better today-I actually woke up feeling pretty good. Then, bam! The emotions came pouring out. We're trying to figure out why I cannot let go of this man who in my head is nothing less than 100% perfect. I told her it's killing me to think I may have made his marriage stronger. It hurts to imagine him growing old with her when he and I talked about that. All the things that will never be came flooding out of me. I feel like crap. My head hurts and my heart is broken. She's convinced a day will come when I will feel better and not care...at all. It's so far out of reach now....I can't imagine ever getting there.

[sunburned]

I read something today that pretty much sums it all up for me in one sentence....

 

"I never knew this kind of pain existed…to loose someone that was never yours."

So true. Similarly, there is a famous Buddhist saying:

 

 

“In the end, only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you.”

[uneek74]

Mickey.

 

Moving on doesn't mean you have to stop loving the person. It just means your love for them will have to change. You are not allowing yourself to move on. Your language has to change. For instance, don't say "I can't move on" Yes you can, you have too! I am in your shoes right now too. Although ours was a mutal ending, We miss each other nonetheless. Having been around someone for 8 yrs, you just don't walk away and not miss the person or still have emotional ties to the person. Your MM will one day contact you, please know that. In 2011 I thought that was the end. Our relationship went on an additional 2 years because he contacted me and we started up again until Feb. of this year.

 

Even after the Feb. ending he still contacted me almost daily. Just last friday night he sent me a txt and up until today I have not heard from him. I will not be contacting him to see why he suddenly stopped texting.

I am saying all this to say be ready on how you are going to handle things when he returns. Stay strong and steadfast in your healing. You don't want to feel like you are on a rollercoaster forever.

 

I agree with your therapist. One day you are going to wake up and really give yourself the side-eye, and say " What was I thinking" LOL.

 

BTW It is highly doubtful that he woke up one day and was back at the honeymoon phase in his marriage.

Edited April 3, 2014 by uneek74
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[tornado]

Mickey, when you romanticize about your MM, keep in mind that those MMs despise us! It will help you move on. Let's keep our dignity.

[gettingstronger]

I do believe that men are quite capable of giving up everything for true love. If they decide not to, you have to ask why what you have is not worth it.

[starchild699]

I met with my therapist this morning and cried the entire time. I thought I was doing better today-I actually woke up feeling pretty good. Then, bam! The emotions came pouring out. We're trying to figure out why I cannot let go of this man who in my head is nothing less than 100% perfect. I told her it's killing me to think I may have made his marriage stronger. It hurts to imagine him growing old with her when he and I talked about that. All the things that will never be came flooding out of me. I feel like crap. My head hurts and my heart is broken. She's convinced a day will come when I will feel better and not care...at all. It's so far out of reach now....I can't imagine ever getting there.

 

 

Mickey, where are you ten, eleven weeks out now? (I repeat) you're still in the early healing stages. An affair ending is NOT a normal break-up. Sorry Popsicle, therapist...(majority rules) it IS a different kind of pain/ending. Add to it, long-term affair = years invested. Dday = abrupt ending. I think your therapist is coming across a bit inexperienced. Like others here, I've been divorced twice, experienced trauma in my childhood and those experiences paled in comparison to my A-ending. It can be further intensified by the personality types involved. You've described xMM as consistently kind and supportive throughout your R. Also, you come across as a sensitive type (like me) a bit naive and extremely trusting/loving to a fault.

 

Remember there isn't a one-size-fits-all 'timeline'. Healing is a gradual non-linear process. Use therapy to process the yucky stuff - the feelings of abandonment and the five stages of grief but don't get hung up on 'the whys' (for now) or finding a quick or magical cure-all. When you exit therapy double-up on 'in the NOW' alternatives, the ones Owl offered - exercise, meditation, healthy eating, sleep, new hobbies, new friendships, volunteering, etc. to get outside of your head. I know you said you're already doing those things but ramp it up. Think of it as 'boot camp' for your body and soul. YOU taking back the controls.

 

Continue reading/posting here because you need a healthy outlet to vent and no one is going to understand better than those who lived through it. Not just OW, but all sides. Maybe as someone suggested cut back your 'online' time (whatever it is now, cut by one third or half). If you need help breaking the cycle - Not that I want to throw more pain your way - but it might be time for you to read over on the infidelity/BS board. Google hysterical bonding. It will help stop the pangs of 'missing' and romanticizing (if only temporarily). Sometimes we need a bucket of ice water or someone to shake our shoulders a bit, to get us 'movin'. The mental images will most likely spur you in the right direction.

 

You WILL get there, Mickey. Wishing you much peace.

 

Hugs,

starchild

[Cocochai]

I do believe that men are quite capable of giving up everything for true love. If they decide not to, you have to ask why what you have is not worth it.

 

Have to understand most Men think logical rather than emotions. He may have acted out because he knew the RISKs.

 

If the cost is higher... Divorce/finance/kids...

 

Does not mean he never felt sme way for you, it's just that he decided the cost was higher then what it's worth (not saying your not worthy either).

 

Trust me, when things cool down on his end he'll contact you again but it's all I. How you want to respond. I'm not big on NC because I'm not good at it. But, once I'm over you... I'm done and the guy truly knows it.

 

I'm slowly getting overt XMM because I'm not dwelling on anything anymore but I know at this point I refuse to let him have his way anymore.