I want to confront my father - he enabled my narcissistic mother

[SpiralOut]

I have had a close relationship with my father all my life. The only area of resentment, that we never talk about, is the fact that he allowed my mother to treat me the way that she did. She was a control freak narcissist who bullied and belittled me. I am an adult now. I moved away from home 10 years ago. To this day, I have boundary issues and low self-esteem that I struggle to deal with. I only recently discovered, through therapy, that these issues stem from my upbringing.

 

 

I've been working on myself and trying to find forgiveness. As I progress in the healing process, I find that I need to speak up about this. My mother's behaviour is a taboo subject in my family. Everybody knows how she is, but nobody talks about her - not to me, anyway. I have tried dropping hints to my aunt and to my brother, and neither showed interest in discussing her. They either stayed silent or changed the subject. Considering how I have been her main target, I am not content to just stay quiet and not say anything anymore.

 

 

I can't figure out where my father stands in all this. On the one hand, he is protective of her. He never allowed me to swear at her. If she said something nasty to me and I called her a bitch, he would ignore her behaviour and tell me to stop it. So in that sense I always felt that he deemed it "okay" for her to be that way. It was okay for her to behave like a child, but I, the child, was expected to act like an adult.

 

 

On the other hand, there were times when I heard him chastising her for the way she spoke to me. He lectured her. He never did it in front of me. He would tell me to leave the room and then he would do it. So in another sense, I knew that he disagreed with her. It was obvious that he disliked how controlling she was. If it weren't for my father, I would not have been permitted to do anything or have a life at all. I often felt that I would not have survived my childhood without him. Still, I wished that he would have stood up for me more often.

 

 

Nobody in my family ever sat down and explained to me that my mother was unwell. Nobody explained that her behaviour was not okay, they are sorry I had to deal with it There were several nasty incidents that family members witnessed in which she bullied me until I cried. Nobody approached me to ask me if I was okay.

 

 

Sometimes I wonder how things might have been, had someone just explained to me what was going on. I was told "that's the way she is" and they expected me to just understand. I can see how another adult could look at her and intuitively understand what was going on, but children interpret things differently. Kids blame themselves for things. They take it very personally. I most certainly did.

 

 

I want to ask my father why he never explained anything to me. I want to know why he let her treat me the way she did. Knowing what I know now, I cannot continue to have a close relationship with him unless we discuss this. I have attempted to bring it up with him before and he became touchy and defensive, so I dropped it. There is a good chance that he will yell at me. Maybe he doesn't want to admit his part in it? He wants me to just stay quiet and pretend that things are fine? I am sick and tired of ignoring my own feelings in favour of protecting hers. My feelings matter too. I am willing to say what I need to say. He can go ahead and yell at me if he wants. I can deal with it.

 

 

I want to do this within the next 6 months. I just don't know how to bring it up exactly? Is there a way to word it that will make him less defensive? I am very nervous. I could use some moral support.

Edited March 24, 2014 by SpiralOut

[Noproblem]

I understand, I think my mother has ruined our personality too (among other things) She fight all the time, bully us, belittle us and yell at us. This has been happening since we were kids till now.

 

My mother lost all her family so that made her this way. Life is unfair.

Unlike you I can't leave her, because she is sick . Both my parents Are old and english is not their first language. So they depend on me.

 

And yes, dad should have stood up for her, but no he got cussed and yelled at all the time as well.

 

I love my mother she taught me to be a good person, but I just wanted you to know that I understand and I'm glad you are away from her now and are getting better

 

 

 

Just say what you really feel to him, tell he was weak and he failed you.

 

Be honest! Insist on your opinions and don't hold back.

 

Just say it in calm voice.

H

[Absinthe]

I understand completely. My parents are still married and my dad tiptoes around my mum's behaviour (as does my grandma - but let's face it, my gran raised her this way). I am close to my dad and we get on well, but I am getting very, very tired of my family cow-towing to my mother's behaviour.

 

I think my Dad is so far gone into the relationship that he cannot extricate himself and it sounds the same for your dad. I honestly would like to see my dad meet someone better for him - but I could never suggest that. The messenger would surely be shot.

 

I live abroad - a day's flight away - and my mother hasn't spoken to me since I left. She refused to even say goodbye to me, let alone see me at the airport. The reasoning for this is because I snapped at her. Not because I stole money from her, needed bailing out, nothing. My gran thinks I should apologise. The incident happened months ago, and I can't even remember what I snapped about. It frustrates me that my family can't see the Bigger Picture - that my mum was looking for an excuse to pull this nasty silent treatment, and if I hadn't snapped at her, I would have looked at her funny, or said something else offensive.

 

Of course, my mum snaps at my gran all the time and my gran just shrugs it off.

 

I am the textbook Perfect Child - professional job, no drug problems, no debt. Never asked my parents (well, okay, my dad - mum doesn't work) for anything they didn't offer. But everything I do seems to disappoint my family, and that largely circulates around petty things I say or do that my mother blows out of proportion. I am tired, frankly. It costs around £1,000 for me to fly home, and that is money I do not want to spend if I have to play Needless Family Drama once a year.

[chelsea2011]

I understand how you feel except it was my father who was the one who was constantly making me doubt myself. However, he married a woman after Mom died who is doing the same thing! They are two peas in an abusive pod.

 

You know what? Tell him how you feel in a calm mature way and put him on notice that you wil not tolerate her behavior toward you anymore. It's completely okay to stop visiting with them as long as he continues to allow her to use you as her scape goat to make herself feel better. Draw the line and say, "those days are done." I know it's hard because they are your family, but you have every right to take care of yourself by keeping your distance as long as she continues to abuse you.

[jay1983]

I hear you, I grow with a lot of negativity, from BOTH parents. Yes it did have an effect on my personality. But I don't think confronting your father will make any difference in your life today. My parents weren't get best, but they weren't the worst either. I know some F ed up families, lol. Just work on yourself, if you think a counselor might help, you should see one. But confronting your mother or father won't change anything that will better you now.

[Eivuwan]

Confronting them might make you feel better, but just understand that it might not result in an apology or anything like that.

[Tayla]

Write down what would be the disney ending from your perspective. Then write down the worse case scenario. Then burn those pages.... Open up to both your parents. You are using your dads weakness as an excuse. Your mom is your real issue. I had carried worthless anger and resentment towards my parents. Til

A point will come for you when you are ready.... And not before. That you become a full well rounded adult. You'll forgive yourself first and actually come to an understanding of your parents. Get thru this thru therepy... I wish you a peaceful outcome.... You seem like you care about your well being.

[cocorico]

I want to do this within the next 6 months. I just don't know how to bring it up exactly? Is there a way to word it that will make him less defensive? I am very nervous. I could use some moral support.

 

Your post really resonated with me. I had a similar dynamic with my abusive narcissistic mother and my enabling father. They have since divorced and I have no relationship whatsoever with my mother, and feel so much lighter for it.

 

Have you read "how can I forgive you", by Janice Abrahms Spring? I found it very useful to reach acceptance, since forgiveness would not be possible as my mother would never accept she was in any way in the wrong.

 

As for speaking to your father, you need to be clear on what exactly you want out of it. Do you want him to acknowledge your feelings, your past and ongoing pain? Or do you simply want to break the silence, to refuse the conspiracy of elective mutism around your mother's behaviour, to take a stand, claim your voice and to be seen to be doing so? If the latter, I think you need to choose a neutral space, and ask him to allow you to speak without interrupting or speaking over you because you feel it is important to have your say, but that there will be space for him to have his say when you are done - and tell him that this is about you, not about him, and that you are not expecting or demanding anything from him.

 

If it is the former, he may simply not be able to. He has had to make sacrifices himself to enable himself to live with the cognitive dissonance, and admitting that your pain is valid will be an indictment of his failings as a father. My father was never able to admit that, he remains adamant that he did what he felt was best for "us kids" and he cannot accept that that was not so. He just can't - and I know that if I want any relationship with him, I need to accept the limitations this places, and accept it for what it is.

 

Have you considered inviting him (with your counsellor's permission) to one of your counselling sessions, to do it there? Having a third person - particularly a professional - present to contain things may help.

[Babolat]

I have had a close relationship with my father all my life. The only area of resentment, that we never talk about, is the fact that he allowed my mother to treat me the way that she did. She was a control freak narcissist who bullied and belittled me. I am an adult now. I moved away from home 10 years ago. To this day, I have boundary issues and low self-esteem that I struggle to deal with. I only recently discovered, through therapy, that these issues stem from my upbringing.

 

 

I've been working on myself and trying to find forgiveness. As I progress in the healing process, I find that I need to speak up about this. My mother's behaviour is a taboo subject in my family. Everybody knows how she is, but nobody talks about her - not to me, anyway. I have tried dropping hints to my aunt and to my brother, and neither showed interest in discussing her. They either stayed silent or changed the subject. Considering how I have been her main target, I am not content to just stay quiet and not say anything anymore.

 

 

I can't figure out where my father stands in all this. On the one hand, he is protective of her. He never allowed me to swear at her. If she said something nasty to me and I called her a bitch, he would ignore her behaviour and tell me to stop it. So in that sense I always felt that he deemed it "okay" for her to be that way. It was okay for her to behave like a child, but I, the child, was expected to act like an adult.

 

 

On the other hand, there were times when I heard him chastising her for the way she spoke to me. He lectured her. He never did it in front of me. He would tell me to leave the room and then he would do it. So in another sense, I knew that he disagreed with her. It was obvious that he disliked how controlling she was. If it weren't for my father, I would not have been permitted to do anything or have a life at all. I often felt that I would not have survived my childhood without him. Still, I wished that he would have stood up for me more often.

 

 

Nobody in my family ever sat down and explained to me that my mother was unwell. Nobody explained that her behaviour was not okay, they are sorry I had to deal with it There were several nasty incidents that family members witnessed in which she bullied me until I cried. Nobody approached me to ask me if I was okay.

 

 

Sometimes I wonder how things might have been, had someone just explained to me what was going on. I was told "that's the way she is" and they expected me to just understand. I can see how another adult could look at her and intuitively understand what was going on, but children interpret things differently. Kids blame themselves for things. They take it very personally. I most certainly did.

 

 

I want to ask my father why he never explained anything to me. I want to know why he let her treat me the way she did. Knowing what I know now, I cannot continue to have a close relationship with him unless we discuss this. I have attempted to bring it up with him before and he became touchy and defensive, so I dropped it. There is a good chance that he will yell at me. Maybe he doesn't want to admit his part in it? He wants me to just stay quiet and pretend that things are fine? I am sick and tired of ignoring my own feelings in favour of protecting hers. My feelings matter too. I am willing to say what I need to say. He can go ahead and yell at me if he wants. I can deal with it.

 

 

I want to do this within the next 6 months. I just don't know how to bring it up exactly? Is there a way to word it that will make him less defensive? I am very nervous. I could use some moral support.

 

I have not read the replies...

 

I went through some pretty intense counseling in my my early to mid 20s after a LTR failed. What came out was stuff related to my dad I had buried and forgotten about. The therapist suggested I write a letter to him listing all the events, times and how it effected me.

 

I thought "what will I write?" I sat down, pulled out 1 piece of paper, stared for who knows how long, then started writing. I could not stop writing. My best guess is I wrote over 20 pages.

 

I brought the letter to my next therapy session and said "Now what?". He said I could keep it and doing nothing, throw it away, or give it to my dad and then talk to him. I chose the latter.

 

I did not go as I would have hoped. He read it, I sat in front of him and cried like a baby, then he started to make excuse for his actions/behaviors.

 

Two points, one, you may want to work with a therapist and two, should you decide to talk to your dad, don't expect him to say what you want him to say. All I ever wanted to hear was "I'm sorry". I never did. And, like you, I always wondered why my mother did not do anything. I never asked her. My dad never physically abused us kids, he did my mom, there was a lot of emotional abuse though with me.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Babolat

[Quiet Storm]

Your feelings are valid, and I am sorry that you do not feel more supported.

 

Although it may be difficult, I would try to forgive your father. He was probably doing the best he could with the tools he had been given. He was living with a personality disordered person. Back then, there were no self help books or websites to help with this.

 

Fathers were very rarely awarded custody, so he likely didn't consider leaving his marriage & taking the kids with him.

 

Many fathers in his situation leave their marriages, and the kids have to fend for themselves. It sounds like your father did try to be a buffer. You say if it wasn't for him, you wouldn't have been allowed to do anything. His presense did help to balance your life, even if you don't see it. You are focusing on all he didn't do, instead of what he did do. What if he hadn't stayed at all? It couldn't have been easy for him to be married to her.

 

Personality disordered people are not going to change... no matter how many family members disapprove of & call them out on their behavior. My guess is that your father & the family realized long before you were even aware that confronting her just caused even more drama. So they ended up "walking on eggshells", which is a common response to mental illness in families. So your father was left with these choice: stay married & try to keep things as peaceful as possible OR divorce & leave my kids at the mercy of a mentally ill person.

 

The family dynamics were certainly dysfunctional, but it does no good to blame. You were all victims, IMO. Your family was not emotionally equipped to deal with your mother, and likely did what they thought was best at the time.

 

He likely does feel very bad about your childhood, but I doubt you know the whole story. He may feel that he tolerated & sacrificed a lot for his children's benefit. He can't turn back time.

 

I say talk to him, but don't be surprised if you don't get the answers you are searching for.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Quiet Storm

[SpiralOut]

Your feelings are valid, and I am sorry that you do not feel more supported.

 

Although it may be difficult, I would try to forgive your father. He was probably doing the best he could with the tools he had been given. He was living with a personality disordered person. Back then, there were no self help books or websites to help with this.

 

Fathers were very rarely awarded custody, so he likely didn't consider leaving his marriage & taking the kids with him.

 

Many fathers in his situation leave their marriages, and the kids have to fend for themselves. It sounds like your father did try to be a buffer. You say if it wasn't for him, you wouldn't have been allowed to do anything. His presense did help to balance your life, even if you don't see it. You are focusing on all he didn't do, instead of what he did do. What if he hadn't stayed at all? It couldn't have been easy for him to be married to her.

 

Personality disordered people are not going to change... no matter how many family members disapprove of & call them out on their behavior. My guess is that your father & the family realized long before you were even aware that confronting her just caused even more drama. So they ended up "walking on eggshells", which is a common response to mental illness in families. So your father was left with these choice: stay married & try to keep things as peaceful as possible OR divorce & leave my kids at the mercy of a mentally ill person.

 

The family dynamics were certainly dysfunctional, but it does no good to blame. You were all victims, IMO. Your family was not emotionally equipped to deal with your mother, and likely did what they thought was best at the time.

 

He likely does feel very bad about your childhood, but I doubt you know the whole story. He may feel that he tolerated & sacrificed a lot for his children's benefit. He can't turn back time.

 

I say talk to him, but don't be surprised if you don't get the answers you are searching for.

 

 

I never thought about it like that. If he really wanted to, he might have been able to have her claimed as "unfit" to parent us. Maybe he didn't want to risk it?

 

 

I still wish that he would have explained things to me. I spent most of my childhood not understanding why it was that way. My other friends actually joked with their mothers. I never did that. The very idea was foreign to me. It was very lonely, having nobody to talk to.

 

 

It would make me feel better to hear his side of the story.

[Radu]

First of all i'd like to say that 100% agree with QS.

The key in your post is that he did try something ... i'll get to that later.

 

I never thought about it like that. If he really wanted to, he might have been able to have her claimed as "unfit" to parent us. Maybe he didn't want to risk it?

It depends a lot on the situation, and i remember reading something about this on a site that dealt with men that had BPD/NPD spouses.

Basically, in a divorce, if you claim and prove that your spouse has a PD, it is something that will be handled as if she had a mental illness, like for instance bipolar that can be medicated.

Unlike normal mental illnesses which can be sometimes medicated and have generally a chemically influenced background, PD's are personality disorders, they are emotional, most of them are learned behaviours.

There is no pill for it.

But most of the legal system does not know this today, what about 20yrs ago ?

 

So unless you deal with a PD that can't high-function [can't hide it], that has threatened the kids repeatedly and you have lots of witnesses that can prove it, or several smart counselors that can see it ... it's very hard to remove from them their parental rights, especially if they are a woman ... the assumed 'nurturing' side.

Even harder if she's a SAHM.

 

 

I still wish that he would have explained things to me. I spent most of my childhood not understanding why it was that way. My other friends actually joked with their mothers. I never did that. The very idea was foreign to me. It was very lonely, having nobody to talk to.

What you wish for, is for him to take you to the side and explain to you that it's not you.

You wish to know the person who raised you and had that power over you, backs you up.

 

I know this feeling very well.

My parents messed up big time, twice. First they sent me to live with my abusive [physically and emotionally] grandfather for 2yrs, and then they forced me to stay in class for 4yrs with a teacher [classes 1-4], who was both of these as well.

Worse, they did not believe me when it came to my grandfather until they saw the bruises [after about 1yr], and unknown to me, my dad confronted him ... the emotional abuse continued [passive-agressive stuff].

With my teacher, they did not believe me for 3yrs, but they believed her.

I only got a 'i'm sorry, we realized you were right' when i was 28 from my mom, as my dad has passed.

Knowing that i was not 'crazy', that i had them backing me, even at that age helped me psychologically, it gave me confidence to try other things, to have faith in myself.

 

I suspect you need him to say something like this for the same reason.

 

 

It would make me feel better to hear his side of the story.

I think you should hear his side of the story, but be prepared for rationalizations.

Be prepared for him to excuse somewhat what happened.

 

Personally, i can excuse his behaviour a little and offer another explanation.

If you were a mother and wanted to have a serious argument [possible yelling] with your NPD husband, would you do it in front of the child ?

Probably not would be my guess.

Would the child know of this argument and why it came about ... maybe.

 

One more thing, you do need to confront.

But not in 6 months as that can function as a psychologically delaying tactic your subconscious uses.

What you do right now, asking these questions ... it's already great, work on this further, work on a script or a letter you want him to read.

Modify it, alter it ... and when it's ready, then go and do this.

Not 6 months, it's a goal without a meaning, but when you have an idea of what you want to say and hear.

Good luck with it.

[SpiralOut]

ago ?

 

So unless you deal with a PD that can't high-function [can't hide it], that has threatened the kids repeatedly and you have lots of witnesses that can prove it, or several smart counselors that can see it ... it's very hard to remove from them their parental rights, especially if they are a woman ... the assumed 'nurturing' side.

Even harder if she's a SAHM.

 

 

 

What you wish for, is for him to take you to the side and explain to you that it's not you.

You wish to know the person who raised you and had that power over you, backs you up.

Exactly. I always felt like he was on her side not mine. I couldn't talk to anyone. I knew they would never believe me. She was a teacher and all the kids loved her. They thought she was great! They would never in a million years believe that she treated her daughter badly behind closed doors.

 

 

 

 

 

Personally, i can excuse his behaviour a little and offer another explanation.

If you were a mother and wanted to have a serious argument [possible yelling] with your NPD husband, would you do it in front of the child ?

Probably not would be my guess.

Would the child know of this argument and why it came about ... maybe.

Oh I'm not mad at him for making me leave the room while he lectured her. It just confused me at the time. Looking back, I wish that I would have put my ear against the door to listen. It might have made me feel better to hear some of it.

 

One more thing, you do need to confront.

But not in 6 months as that can function as a psychologically delaying tactic your subconscious uses.

What you do right now, asking these questions ... it's already great, work on this further, work on a script or a letter you want him to read.

Modify it, alter it ... and when it's ready, then go and do this.

Not 6 months, it's a goal without a meaning, but when you have an idea of what you want to say and hear.

Good luck with it.

 

 

Yes that's true. Well Easter is coming up soon so I guess I'll do it when I'm visiting.

[SpiralOut]

It makes me feel better to look at it from my father's perspective. I have trouble seeing her properly from my point of view. To him, she must have been someone to keep his eye on and to lecture now and then as if she were a child. She probably stood there and argued with him the same way that a little kid would.

 

 

There were things he probably never found out about because she only did them when he was gone. She was very good at convincing me to stay quiet. She was worried that I would tattle on her and get her into trouble. . .

[Radu]

Exactly. I always felt like he was on her side not mine. I couldn't talk to anyone. I knew they would never believe me. She was a teacher and all the kids loved her. They thought she was great! They would never in a million years believe that she treated her daughter badly behind closed doors.

 

Oh man, this is even worse.

One of the worst type of nurturers, and high-functioning as well.

 

It could only be worse if she was a pediatrician or child psychologist.

 

Ppl like this can only be seen for what they are if you live with them for a long time, or ... if you can record them during episodes, like during narcissistic rage.

[SpiralOut]

Oh man, this is even worse.

One of the worst type of nurturers, and high-functioning as well.

 

It could only be worse if she was a pediatrician or child psychologist.

 

Ppl like this can only be seen for what they are if you live with them for a long time, or ... if you can record them during episodes, like during narcissistic rage.

 

 

 

She finally got her dream job of teaching special education kids.

 

 

She laughs at people who have Asperger's syndrome.

[SpiralOut]

I have chosen to not confront him. I already know why he didn't stand up for me. He loves her. In spite of the way she is, he loves her, so much so that he wants to pretend nothing is wrong. When something really wrong did happen, he dealt with it, then pushed it under the rug and tried to pretend it didn't happen, or didn't matter that much, or wouldn't have that much of an effect.

 

I sat in a car with him for several hours and could not for the life of me think of any way to bring it up. I don't think he could handle hearing the truth.