Getting back in the game, my dating journey.

[Babolat]

I'm not sure about that.

 

My ex was miserable in her relationship when I met her. She should have broken up with him long before she met me. Why she didn't break up with him till I came around, probably should have been a red flag.

 

Hooray for me that she finally got the strength and independence to be alone when I was dating her :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Wait, when you met your ex gf, she was dating someone else? And you are proud that she picked you, over him? How was she alone, if she went right from him, to you?

[Babolat]

If I remember correctly, you are the poster who kept posting about average penis size on the "too small" thread? And your insecurities with your penis size?

 

Personally, I think you have a lot going on, and you are distracting yourself with "many woman" now; and could benefit from pausing and doing some self work and introspection. Showing interest in a woman with a bf is a sign of something: maybe you are not emotionally available, maybe it's a "I can get her to like me" thing, maybe it's a quest. I dunno, it's just feels noisy and distracting to me.

 

I'm not judging or attaching you either. Hoping my 47 years of, cough, cough, wisdom - may help you.

[somedude81]

Are you hearing us? This, is Friendzone. ASK her on a date. Why can't men, date these days!? Take a woman on a date, a real date. Geez.

Why are you guys consistently suggesting I ask out women that I barely know?

 

I can't imagine any of the girls I mentioned in this thread saying yes to a real date if I asked them out right now.

 

Why would they even want to say yes when they don't know me?

 

I'm not a super good looking guy who can win women over with his smile. Nor do I have really smooth game and make women fall for me after the first conversation.

 

Asking out girls before I've had a real conversation with them just sounds stupid.

[somedude81]

Wait, when you met your ex gf, she was dating someone else? And you are proud that she picked you, over him? How was she alone, if she went right from him, to you?

Yes she was dating another guy when I met her.

 

During the class we developed a sort of friendship.

 

Unbeknownst to me, she started to develop feelings for me and broke up with her boyfriend near the end of the semester. When I said bye to her on the last day of class, I believed that she was still in a relationship, and that I would never see her again. Both of those beliefs turned out to be wrong.

 

After class was over, she maintained contact through email. Then she started dropping hints that she liked me. I asked for some advice on this forum, and somebody told me to say, "I'd like to take you out on a date if you were single." Everything just escalated from there.

 

We had our first date about a month after she had broken up with him. Unfortunately my ex swinging from him to me, was not good for her and I was left to be the one suffering.

 

I did not try to steal her away, it just happened.

 

She is alone now, if she didn't swing to another guy after dumping me. She told me that there isn't another guy, but I really don't know if there is or not. Either way, it doesn't matter. Things are completely over between us regardless if there is another man in her life now or not.

[hasaquestion]

Why are you guys consistently suggesting I ask out women that I barely know?

 

I can't imagine any of the girls I mentioned in this thread saying yes to a real date if I asked them out right now.

 

Why would they even want to say yes when they don't know me?

 

I'm not a super good looking guy who can win women over with his smile. Nor do I have really smooth game and make women fall for me after the first conversation.

 

Asking out girls before I've had a real conversation with them just sounds stupid.

 

The point is that "smooth game" is something you develop through practice, practice, practice, and fine tuning. No one pops out of the womb and gets the midwife's number.

 

And cold approaches aren't the only way to meet a girl at all. But the skills they require, the confidence and talking, are the ones that coincide with success in dating. That's why its important to practice! If you can't pull off the cold approach it is just a symptom of the "bigger problem".

 

You said that you feel as if the girls who talk to you always have boyfriends. That is a HUGE red flag concerning your approach right now.

 

Girls in relationships let their guards down. They are looking for a friend not a lover. If the girls who are in relationships are the ones who open up to you, it means the girls who are looking for friends are opening up to you, and the ones who are looking for relationships are not. That is a sign that the signals you are giving off are "fit for friendship" not "fit for relationship". That's something you've got to change.

 

And, coming from a terrible dancer in myself, why don't you like clubs if you're good at dancing? Just wondering because that seems like a waste of your talents.

[Babolat]

Why are you guys consistently suggesting I ask out women that I barely know?

 

I can't imagine any of the girls I mentioned in this thread saying yes to a real date if I asked them out right now.

 

Why would they even want to say yes when they don't know me?

 

I'm not a super good looking guy who can win women over with his smile. Nor do I have really smooth game and make women fall for me after the first conversation.

 

Asking out girls before I've had a real conversation with them just sounds stupid.

 

Umm, I guess, dating is how you do get to know someone, maybe? Just a guess

 

You need to make a decsion here, IMHO. Do you want to be friends then move to dating? Or do you want to date? I've tried your way. It never really works. You never know "what we are" "what's our label". Start off with your intentions, be up front, ask them on a date, and say so. If it's a no, are you afraid you may have lost, a friend?

Edited April 10, 2014 by Babolat

[somedude81]

You said that you feel as if the girls who talk to you always have boyfriends. That is a HUGE red flag concerning your approach right now.

 

Girls in relationships let their guards down. They are looking for a friend not a lover. If the girls who are in relationships are the ones who open up to you, it means the girls who are looking for friends are opening up to you, and the ones who are looking for relationships are not. That is a sign that the signals you are giving off are "fit for friendship" not "fit for relationship". That's something you've got to change.

Thank God you pointed that out.

 

Yes that is the issue that I've always had. Nobody else seems to understand what's going on.

 

What I'm doing is essentially making friends with girls who have their guards down and are looking for friends (because they have boyfriends). Though the problem is that I'm not looking for friends.

 

I have no idea how to get past the barrier that single girls put up.

 

I made a huge thread on how I'm only meeting women that have boyfriends and NOBODY made the observation that you did. I'm sure plenty of girls out there don't have boyfriends, but for some reason, I'm not able to get close to the girls that are single. That cute girl that I mentioned being cold and awkward toward me, I wouldn't be surprised at all if she was single.

 

How the hell do I change the signals that I'm putting out and can start actually getting close to the girls that are single? Asking out girls right away is not the answer, because I'm just going to get a huge load of rejections.

Edited April 10, 2014 by somedude81

[Babolat]

Thank God you pointed that out.

 

Yes that is the issue that I've always had. Nobody else seems to understand what's going on.

 

What I'm doing is essentially making friends with girls who have their guards down and are looking for friends. Though the problem is that I'm not looking for friends.

 

I have no idea how to get past the barrier that single girls put up.

 

I made a huge thread on how I'm only meeting women that have boyfriends and NOBODY made the observation that you did. I'm sure plenty of girls out there don't have boyfriends, but for some reason, I'm not able to get close to the girls that are single. That cute girl that I mentioned being cold and awkward toward me, I wouldn't be surprised at all if she was single.

 

How the hell do I change the signals that I'm putting out and can start actually getting close to the girls that are single?

 

Geez, we have all made this observation, directly or indirectly.

 

If you meet a girl, you like her, she's available, ask her on a date. Stop all the what ifs, stop 2nd guessing yoiurself. And yes, a date, no "how about we grab lunch" "How about we study together". Woman like, wait for it, to be dated. Yeah, I know, what a novel thought.

 

I'm not busting on you. I just see this sooo much. I've done it myself when I'm not really sure if I want to date a woman. My female best friend and I were texting last night. She said "Why do men just want to hang out? Why can't they plan a date and take me on a date?"

[somedude81]

gross.

 

 

WHY would you fall for the kind of girl who has so little respect for her boyfriend that she flirts with other men and asks them to look at her body.

And now I have a real answer to this question.

 

It has nothing to do with her showing me her body.

 

It's because she gives me attention, she's nice to me, she seems to enjoy my company and I like her personality. That's why I'm starting to fall for her. The fact that she is physically completely my type doesn't hurt.

 

If she were single, and assuming that she would still be as friendly and open towards me as she is now, I would have asked her out long ago.

[somedude81]

Geez, we have all made this observation, directly or indirectly.

 

If you meet a girl, you like her, she's available, ask her on a date. Stop all the what ifs, stop 2nd guessing yoiurself. And yes, a date, no "how about we grab lunch" "How about we study together". Woman like, wait for it, to be dated. Yeah, I know, what a novel thought.

 

I'm not busting on you. I just see this sooo much. I've done it myself when I'm not really sure if I want to date a woman. My female best friend and I were texting last night. She said "Why do men just want to hang out? Why can't they plan a date and take me on a date?"

And how am I supposed to know if they are available if I can't get close enough to them to have a real conversation?

[Babolat]

Asking out girls right away is not the answer, because I'm just going to get a huge load of rejections.

Are you afraid of the rejection? If yes, do you think "hanging out" for a period of time will get you a "yes" when you finally do ask them out?

 

There is nothing wrong with your strategy. It can work. But, in the meantime, all of the other assertive guys will be asking them out, on a date, while you, are tyring to become their friend first, for fear of rejection.

[Babolat]

And how am I supposed to know if they are available if I can't get close enough to them to have a real conversation?

 

 

Wait for it....you ask them. Or you find a clever way to find out quickly. While talking saying something like "You and your boyfriend......" or "Your boyfriend must like that....". Or ask one of their friends if they are available. Or just ask them on a date, period, let them decide, if they are available. Or, after talking for a bit, ask her for her number and then call her, DON'T text her, and ask her out.

[Chocolat]

SD, do you know how to flirt a little? There is a way to meet a woman and make your interest known without being OTT or creepy. This is what you need to work on. How much eye contact do you make with women? IMO, this is a requirement for signalling interest.

 

The problem with asking a girl to study with you is that it sends a "friend" signal. Asking a girl to lunch is slightly more ambiguous, but it's still not a definite "date" signal. When you send "friend" signals, it is really difficult to turn that into a date situation.

 

You need to build up the courage to just ask a girl out. Worst case is that she'll say no. Isn't that better than becoming a study buddy with some chick you have unrequited feelings for?

[somedude81]

Ah, and now I remember, I've had the problem with girls with boyfriends lowering their guards with me before. I even made a thread about it.

Women in relationships; don't flirt with me

 

Really, please don't.

 

Today was another bummer.

 

Super cute, really friendly girl shows up to Salsa class a little late. She's talking with her friend and another guy. She makes eye contact with me and we say hi. It seems the three of them are deciding who is going to dance with who. She pushes her friend to the guy and says, "I found my partner!" and walks over to me with a big smile.

 

We exchange pleasantries.

 

"How was your weekend?"

"It was real fun, I went to a party."

"What kind of party?"

"A haloween party. My boyfriend and I dressed up."

 

F-ing bitch!

 

Of course I didn't say that to her but it's what I said in my head. I really thought that she was flirting with me the past couple weeks and that I may have had a chance. Thank God I didn't ask her out which I was probably going to do this week after I did a little more probing to find out if she was single. At least she saved me from doing the legwork.

 

Frankly though, the level of flirting she was doing, definitely felt like she was leading me on. It's extremely frustrating to think that the a girl might like me then to find out she was just being friendly.

 

I really wish girls would stop for a second and look at how guys would interpret her actions.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

That was from 2010. Amazing how little things have changed.

 

The women with boyfriends are almost always the most friendly. And yes, that includes the one and only girlfriend I have ever had.

[clia]

Women with boyfriends are friendly to you because you are no threat. They have nothing to lose by being friendly. If you ask them out, they can just say they have a boyfriend; no harm, no foul.

 

Single women have to be careful how friendly they are because if they are too friendly, a guy who they are not interested in dating may ask them out. Then they have to find a way to turn him down, which can be awkward. This is especially true for younger and more inexperienced women. It doesn't feel good to say "no" when a guy asks you out on a date. So what is the best way to do avoid doing that? Avoid putting yourself in situations where you are friendly and interacting with those guys.

 

The single girls in your class likely went through a similar process that you did over the first few weeks of class. They scoped out the situation to decide if there were any guys they might be interested in dating. If there were, they will gravitate toward those guys, and try to put themselves in a position or place where those guys will notice them. They are doing the same thing you are doing, but their attention is on someone else. If a girl is acting cold to you, it means she isn't interested. She doesn't want to interact with you because she doesn't want you to ask her out. She is trying to avoid the awkward.

[somedude81]

Women with boyfriends are friendly to you because you are no threat. They have nothing to lose by being friendly. If you ask them out, they can just say they have a boyfriend; no harm, no foul.

 

Single women have to be careful how friendly they are because if they are too friendly, a guy who they are not interested in dating may ask them out. Then they have to find a way to turn him down, which can be awkward. This is especially true for younger and more inexperienced women. It doesn't feel good to say "no" when a guy asks you out on a date. So what is the best way to do avoid doing that? Avoid putting yourself in situations where you are friendly and interacting with those guys.

 

The single girls in your class likely went through a similar process that you did over the first few weeks of class. They scoped out the situation to decide if there were any guys they might be interested in dating. If there were, they will gravitate toward those guys, and try to put themselves in a position or place where those guys will notice them. They are doing the same thing you are doing, but their attention is on someone else. If a girl is acting cold to you, it means she isn't interested. She doesn't want to interact with you because she doesn't want you to ask her out. She is trying to avoid the awkward.

Thank you so much for your post clia. I wish I would have heard that years ago.

 

Before I fall into a bottomless pit of despair and hopelessness, is there anything I can do?

 

Women have never been interested in me. I realize now that I just got very lucky with my ex. I can't expect something like that to happen again.

 

Wow, I just got the feeling that I am completely and utterly screwed.

Edited April 10, 2014 by somedude81

[hasaquestion]

Somedude81 your problem is that you are caught up in minutiae. Why do you care about asking them if they are available? Why is that something you are worrying about? It doesn't matter.

 

If they're interested they'll say yes, and you can sort out their status (hopefully do the right thing) later. If they say no, they're not interested. And that is your REAL problem, is it not?

 

Solving problems is about clarity. Getting to core issues and not getting lost in the details.

 

The Problem:

Women say "No". I want them to say "Yes".

 

First Simplifying Assumption:

Instead of worrying about every single factor into whether or not a girl says yes we will just focus on 5 that matter most.

 

Women say "Yes" to:

Bold and confident

Handsome and good looking

Says the right things and engages them conversationally

Social capital and leadership

Uncommon intelligence and success

 

Second Simplifying Assumption:

We will take out the two that are not realistic to change. We are left with 3 factors.

 

Women say "Yes" to:

Bold and confident

Says the right things and engages them conversationally

Social capital and leadership

 

The other stuff, if you approach them before or after class, lunch versus drinks, text right away or wait 2 hours, I'm not saying its completely meaningless. But the thousands of other details are combined 5% of the picture, and the five things I listed above are the other 95%. Where is your energy most efficiently allocated?

 

The true way to chase women is counterintuitive if you are stuck in the details of chasing them. Because it is NOT to chase them. It is to be what they want. 95% of your success is based on whether you ARE what they want, and 5% of it is based on exactly what you do to chase them.

 

 

So we arrive at a solution. Not a simple one (which is why you're on here asking!) but the best one you're going to get.

 

BE what women say yes to. Accomplish this by being confident and assertive, making women enjoy/crave your company, and having social capital.

 

Now you have to brainstorm ways to accomplish the 3 minor goals: improve at flirting, make friends, fill your life with fun things that someone would want to do, improve your posture and self-image.

 

Its not easy but that's your "answer" and if you wait for an easier one you might be waiting forever.

[mikefromtheblock]

Umm, I guess, dating is how you do get to know someone, maybe? Just a guess

 

You need to make a decsion here, IMHO. Do you want to be friends then move to dating? Or do you want to date? I've tried your way. It never really works. You never know "what we are" "what's our label". Start off with your intentions, be up front, ask them on a date, and say so. If it's a no, are you afraid you may have lost, a friend?

 

Spot on!

 

We worry too much about rejection. I know many girls who LOVE if you just go ahead and ask them what you want to ask. No BS, just go for it.

 

There's even a video on YouTube how guy walks on street and just pushes his phone into girls face saying "put your no. in my phone." And they do precisely that. Obviously that won't work 100% of times, but nothing does. And from my experience girls love spontaneity, something radically different than the rest guys do.

[Imajerk17]

I agree with clia. And it is why I think the advice to SD81 to "ask a woman out on a date" is skipping steps.

 

In a cold-approach situation then you just have to go for it. In a situation such as a class, it is somewhat different. Here, "Ask her out on a real date" applies if the girl in question is already showing interest--as in she is putting a lot of energy into keeping their conversations going and/or they always seem to end up dancing together.

 

Anyway SD, you can take heart that if a girl is open to being friendly with you, it does mean they like you on some level/don't see you as weird. That's better than a lot of guys get.

[hasaquestion]

Spot on!

 

We worry too much about rejection. I know many girls who LOVE if you just go ahead and ask them what you want to ask. No BS, just go for it.

 

There's even a video on YouTube how guy walks on street and just pushes his phone into girls face saying "put your no. in my phone." And they do precisely that. Obviously that won't work 100% of times, but nothing does. And from my experience girls love spontaneity, something radically different than the rest guys do.

 

In college my group of guy friends played a game a lot where we went to a certain busy public place and took turns talking to girls. The catch was the rest of the group decided what you say.

 

The moral of the story was that what you say doesn't really matter. The game ended up producing one real relationship. The thing he approached her with was "So how do you feel about the war of 1812?":laugh:

[Babolat]

Before I fall into a bottomless pit of despair and hopelessness, is there anything I can do?.

 

How many different ways can you ask this question, and, how many different ways can we give you the exact same answer? We are trying to help, and you reply with yet another "irl has boyfriend" story.

[somedude81]

Thanks hasaquestion.

 

BE what women say yes to. Accomplish this by being confident and assertive, making women enjoy/crave your company, and having social capital.

So that is the core of the issue.

 

Though the first thing I need to point out is that I'm only 5'6 and average in looks. Meaning, not only do I not have "Handsome and good looking" as a positive, my physical appearance is not even neutral, it's a negative.

 

So then right away my appearance is working against me and women are not physically attracted to me. This has been almost an insurmountable barrier.

 

On top of that, I'm an introvert, and I'm not that outgoing. Likewise I don't have an active social life.

 

As I've said before, I'm hardly smooth and women aren't craving my company. Granted I do have women that are looking for friends wanting to talk to me. Hopefully there is some positive in that, and I can work on it. What it really boils down to is that I've had very little experience flirting with women. I've always been bad at it.

 

The last thing, being confident and assertive. Obviously I'm not. My self-esteem is in shambles. I'm not getting the positive go ahead signals from women, and the last thing I want to do is get rejected by a ton of women I've never had a chance with.

 

If those are the three key issues I have to change, which ones are the easiest to work on, and will provide the quickest success?

 

I do feel that the way I talk to and interact with women is improving and I'm getting better at flirting. Though I still have a very long way to go.

 

I'm still feeling that things are pretty hopeless right now.

[somedude81]

I agree with clia. And it is why I think the advice to SD81 to "ask a woman out on a date" is skipping steps.

 

In a cold-approach situation then you just have to go for it. In a situation such as a class, it is somewhat different. Here, "Ask her out on a real date" applies if the girl in question is already showing interest--as in she is putting a lot of energy into keeping their conversations going and/or they always seem to end up dancing together.

 

Anyway SD, you can take heart that if a girl is open to being friendly with you, it does mean they like you on some level/don't see you as weird. That's better than a lot of guys get.

Exactly, asking out women right now is skipping steps. Sure I can ask out all the women I'm interested in next week, plus a handful more, and I'll end up with 10 rejections. That isn't going to help me. It's just going to shatter my confidence.

 

At this point in my life, women just aren't interested in who I am. My physical appearance is a hindrance, and I need to somehow overcome that.

[rester]

Thanks hasaquestion.

 

 

So that is the core of the issue.

 

Though the first thing I need to point out is that I'm only 5'6 and average in looks. Meaning, not only do I not have "Handsome and good looking" as a positive, my physical appearance is not even neutral, it's a negative.

 

So then right away my appearance is working against me and women are not physically attracted to me. This has been almost an insurmountable barrier.

 

On top of that, I'm an introvert, and I'm not that outgoing. Likewise I don't have an active social life.

 

As I've said before, I'm hardly smooth and women aren't craving my company. Granted I do have women that are looking for friends wanting to talk to me. Hopefully there is some positive in that, and I can work on it. What it really boils down to is that I've had very little experience flirting with women. I've always been bad at it.

 

The last thing, being confident and assertive. Obviously I'm not. My self-esteem is in shambles. I'm not getting the positive go ahead signals from women, and the last thing I want to do is get rejected by a ton of women I've never had a chance with.

 

If those are the three key issues I have to change, which ones are the easiest to work on, and will provide the quickest success?

 

I do feel that the way I talk to and interact with women is improving and I'm getting better at flirting. Though I still have a very long way to go.

 

I'm still feeling that things are pretty hopeless right now.

 

Why are you hesitant to make friends with the friendly girls, even if they have boyfriends? Friendly girls have other friends and social lives that they can bring you into. Don't limit yourself to the girls, either. Maybe their boyfriends could become good friends. Male friends can be a positive influence in your life.

 

The more people you know and are friends with, the more people you are introduced to. That's when the opportunities for finding your next girlfriend materialize.

 

When you cut off people in your life because you don't see some direct benefit (like them being single), you limit your pool of opportunities for meeting single women that may be interested.

[Imajerk17]

Women with boyfriends are friendly to you because you are no threat. They have nothing to lose by being friendly. If you ask them out, they can just say they have a boyfriend; no harm, no foul.

 

Single women have to be careful how friendly they are because if they are too friendly, a guy who they are not interested in dating may ask them out. Then they have to find a way to turn him down, which can be awkward. This is especially true for younger and more inexperienced women. It doesn't feel good to say "no" when a guy asks you out on a date. So what is the best way to do avoid doing that? Avoid putting yourself in situations where you are friendly and interacting with those guys.

 

The single girls in your class likely went through a similar process that you did over the first few weeks of class. They scoped out the situation to decide if there were any guys they might be interested in dating. If there were, they will gravitate toward those guys, and try to put themselves in a position or place where those guys will notice them. They are doing the same thing you are doing, but their attention is on someone else. If a girl is acting cold to you, it means she isn't interested. She doesn't want to interact with you because she doesn't want you to ask her out. She is trying to avoid the awkward.

 

I'm glad someone said this!

 

The way it generally works is this: If Girl wants to be interacting more with Guy, she will let him know. Yes, guys still have to make the first move in a cold-approach situation. And yes, girls don't work in quite the direct way that guys work (i.e., actually asking out Girl). But if a girl is interested, she will still be doing things like (a) putting in all this extra effort to keep the conversation started/going (b) making a point of dancing with him.

 

Anyway, getting back to SD's sitch... If a girl who has been in your dance class for almost the whole semester only gives you one-word answers to your questions and/or hardly ever seems to dance with you, despite your making some effort to seek her out, then it probably isn't just bad luck. The girl probably isn't interested.

 

All this stuff a few of you are saying to "ask her out on a date!!" regardless just comes across to me as really wet-behind-the-ears advice. SD's instincts to suggest lunch right after class or studying together (or even to forget about it), to a girl who doesn't seem that interested are actually spot on.

 

I dated a girl from work for 2 years. You know what our first few "dates" were? That's right, pizza in the company cafeteria.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Imajerk17