Cliche ... "love you, but not in love" with a twist ...

[johnnyapples]

Ouch -- I did say that to one ex of mine. But that was probably the most horrible girl I've ever dated and she totally deserved it. (She had a b/f while dating me for 7 months, and wanted to get together 2 months later after I found out and broke up with her). "You are DEAD TO ME!!!"

[Mary3]

I think that : if you love her then absolutely give it a second chance. But it can only work if BOTH of you want that....not one....sigh ..\

 

Interesting story of your two friends . Why does it work ? Because one ; The maturity level of both, the love and the devotion and determination to stay together.

 

Why else does it work ?

 

Because while one may be an assertive chatty person and the other one quiet and introspective , it works * because * they each provide a need to the other. One may have a hard time returning an item to the department store and relies on the other one to be the one to step up to the plate.

 

One might be very chatty but relies on the quiet calm of an easy going person ( that would describe myself as having easy going friends to be the one to bring peace to the situation.

 

It also works because the husband finds things about his wife that reminds him of one of his parents in some way. Visa versa for the wife.

 

Please give yourself a chance to your relationship if you think you can go back sans the pain.

[johnnyapples]

Hey Mary3...

 

my friends do compliement each other in so many ways -- and they are both characters ... its really funny talking to both of them and watching them fight with each other, but they make fun and complain about each other in jest.

 

As for my girl -- my lost love -- the more NC I have (its the end of Day 3), the more clear headed I become. I want to get back to her and I really think she could be the one. However, I am analyzing her personality to see if she may feel the same. I am pretty intuitive when I meet people; but in all things in life, when you get emotionally involved, your judgement gets impaired. Being apart gives me time to think about who she is and how she really feels. She's a strong and fiercely independent woman. She's a bit naive and idealistic and has a heart of gold. When she says that she thinks we will eventually break up with me if we stayed together (because there is something missing) -- I think she is speaking from her heart. I asked her if she was sure, and she confirmed (with a slight hesitation).

 

So... I don't know if I should even apply myself to attempt a 2nd chance with her. Even though, in my heart of hearts, I want to. That's my dilemna. She's told me a few times that I am everything she's ever wanted in a man, but she felt that something important isn't there and that its a gut feeling that she has. The reason I feel like I want to pursue it is because I know that I was holding back the entire time I was with her. I was scared to let myself go and show off my passionate inner self, and so I feel like I screwed up this whole thing. And because she is a strong woman, I don't know if she will stick to her decision and may not see "what's missing" even if I try to show her the next time around.

 

SO -- TO ALL WHO ARE STILL READING THIS POST:

If I feel like I held back -- by letting go the 2nd time around, do you think it will help. Or is it too late? I have decided to try and move on, but as all of us know, we keep on thinking about a 2nd chance.

[clynn]

Hmmm, I've often had similar reactions when a I've had a break up with someone. That I had been holding something back. It is such a push and pull.

 

Yet, I wonder if you weren't holding back because on whatever level that you don't understand now, or may not ever, is that it simply isn't the right connection with her. Perhaps if you had been the deeply passionate person you are it may have just felt silly and ridiculous in her company and you both would have figured out even sooner that it wasn't going to work.

 

Or, the simple fact that your personality is somewhat stifled in her company . . . you need to be with someone who you feel you can shine with, let loose with.

 

That's the deal.

 

We hope.

[johnnyapples]

Yet, I wonder if you weren't holding back because on whatever level that you don't understand now, or may not ever, is that it simply isn't the right connection with her. Perhaps if you had been the deeply passionate person you are it may have just felt silly and ridiculous in her company and you both would have figured out even sooner that it wasn't going to work.

 

I wasn't in a serious relationship for over 2 years ... maybe close to 3. Dated on and off ... but if I didn't feel anything, I dind't start anything serious. With this one, I felt it, started it... but I kept being cautious because of the whole Long Distance thing. They after thinking it over and talking with a friend, the conclusion was ... who CARES if it is LDR. If there is a good connection, open the heart 100% and play the cards as is. But the funny irony is, as soon as I decided to do that, it happened to be the last weekend I was with her.

[clynn]

Crums.

 

Just when you were gearing up, she was gearing down . . .

[VirginiaBob]

Yea, women always push for you to open up your heart, but the moment you do, they are already looking for an exit.

[johnnyapples]

Argh.

 

Had a few hours of sleep last night -- and didn't dream of her... until this morning. Had a whole fantasy of our "final date". It almost made me want to stay in bed for the rest of the day to dream more about it. Yikes -- I'm up and about and moving on.

 

What do you think of visiting her in a week from now ... when it gets close to 2 weeks of NC? What do you all think about that? Visiting her on the premise of no expectation. No expectation of 2nd chance or reconciliation. Just to see her and hope and just have a good time for the sake of emotional closure, I guess. Any thoughts?

[davecity]

johnny,

 

there should be no visiting unless SHE initiatings the idea of seeing each other. NC means no talking to her and when she does contact you, you must sound indifferent to her and the relationship.

 

dave

[ReluctantRomeo]

Johnny,

 

Dave is so right. Be strong. Remember this was my fatal mistake with ReluctantJuliette - trying to get back in contact before time.

[johnnyapples]

Keeping strong ... I think what I am looking for all those disastrous stories that will help me stay the course.

[johnnyapples]

Okay -- new issue -- I just remembered that I have her CD (an MP3 CD that I took by accident) and I also have a drawing I drew of her. She asked for the CD last Sunday, our very last conversation. Which didn't go so well... and that night... some bad misunderstanding in the text messages -- our last communication.

 

Should I send the CD back? Wait a while to send back?

AND ... should I send the drawing? I meant to leave it with her the last weekend I was there, but I didn't. What should I do with it? I am trying weigh the options of what kind of a message will it be sending her if I send it.

[ReluctantRomeo]

Johnny, Johnny,

 

Think of stupid ReluctantRomeo and his silly behaviour. Even now he is sitting at his desk mentally kicking himself.

 

Do not walk the path of foolishness, grasshopper, but understand the Tao of relationships from the master who has wandered on the way of unwisdom

 

Seriously, let me lay it out for you. Be strong. No Contact. Even if you find little temptations. Give it 4 weeks of NC. She will survive without the CD and without the drawing. The Red Cross may have to provide her with an emergency disaster relief "CD + drawing + antidiarrhoea kit" package, but she will live.

 

By the end of a month, your brain will have cooled. You won't say the stupid things which helped provoke the bad conversation last time. It will be easy to look the cool confident man. She will be *gagging* for you. THEN is the moment to use the CD as an excuse to remake contact. Don't use your excuse up now man - you won't have anything left for the moment you actually need it.

 

The drawing is way more romantic. Hold that back until/if things are going much better between you.

 

My prediction? Around 14 Feb there is at least a 50% chance she is gonna want to contact you. Don't be home alone that night btw.

 

PLEASE learn from me. Someone has to benefit from my stupid mistake - I certainly wish I could go back and do it again.

[johnnyapples]

Thanks Romeo!

 

Okay -- I will stay strong. I'll try to stop thinking of these things.

 

Its hard to get back to my old routines where I wasn't thinking or lookign for someone. I had my own routine and life that I don't feel like getting back to. I need a major change. Its time to dream of a new direction in life. This was a major change, and I think I should continue moving along rather than revert. Its a new year!!

[VirginiaBob]

Don't listen to Romeo about using the CD as a tool to see her later. Never intiate contact, no matter if it's a month, a year, etc. You two are through - get that through your head.

 

What's weird about you telling me that you dreamt of her last night, is that last night I dreamt of my ex for the first time since the breakup - 2 months ago from today exactly.

[johnnyapples]

I was thinking about the CD thing -- it might not have been important, but I think it was an excuse for her to talk to me after the breakup. Knowing her -- she's not the kind of person who gets hung up on possessions. She's not that type of a person. So the CD request, in my opinion, was just an excuse for her to talk to me. She text me to see if I can talk and that she wanted to ask a quick question. But she could have easily asked it via text message. But I screwed up the conversation -- it just dawned on me for the possible reason why she asked for it. The hindsight / 20/20 thing is so true... *sigh*

 

Anyway, the only reason for my thoughts about her is just the unfinished business. I think I am very close to the point of total acceptance of the situation -- but I kind of feel like I want to express myself the way it shoudl have been. I just felt like I didn't get a chance to really show her who I was or show her what she missed. And then walk out of her life and go onto full NC. A few days ago, I was just thinking of contacting/visiting her because of a 50/50 chance that things will change. But after 4 full days of NC, and going on to my 5th day... I think its more like 90% no change and 10% possible change. I just want to plant a seed in her mind that she missed out on something great and then move on.

 

But, as all of you guys know -- that kind of thinking almost never works. Its just slightly vindictive, with a sappy and hopeless romantic twist. Kind of a childish way of saying "Ha! Now I HAVE the last word!" (I'm 90% laughing on the outside and 10% cyring on the inside) LOL.

[clynn]

Well, and what the heck. You could just give it a go.

 

At least then you would eliminate any doubt that there could have been a reconcilation.

 

And at this point your state of mind and feelings of closure are most important.

 

It might confuse you a bit, make you nervous, stir up the feelings. But then you would know know know for sure. And it just might be worth the price for the peace of mind.

 

And of course there always is that % chance it might work.

[clynn]

and yah, I think she was using the CD thing as an excuse for contact.

[Mary3]

MY gut instinct tells me she is really saying : You are alot of what I need in a man but there is something lacking in you so therefore I am still searching " Yeowch !!

 

SO my friend I would seriously consider what you are doing here.

 

I am a woman and I am telling you what I think that means coming from her.

Its really NO different than if a guy told his girlfriend " you are everything I am looking for but except...but ...but " Thats another way of saying she does not think you are * The One *.....meaning while you are sitting here dissecting every word and action, she is likely NOT doing the same....VERY likely NOT doing the same thing....you know the pain...the suffering ...the MISSING you.

 

She may use the CD as a puller or a stringer to keep you interested because she fears she has given up something good but DO NOT rely on the HOPES that she will WAKE UP....after all why would you want someone who is fidgety with you and doubting something about you. ITs Bull#@#$ it really really is....The fact is : YOU are AMAZING and there is someone out there for you that wants you 100% !

 

And this girl in her dilema has caused you pain and I KNOW you are waiting for the fateful phonecall of " Oh gosh honey I was wrong I want you BACK ! " Dont hold your breath. Now of course she could have screwed up and takes you back and everything is wonderful but WHY would you settle for that. Because you love her ? Well after she takes you back and 3 weeks later she says " You know this isnt working " THen you are hurt 2 times !

 

My best advice" No COntact ! NOT because it will make her want you back but because you RESPECT yourself and wont tolerate someone who is not giving YOU 100% !!

[johnnyapples]

Well, and what the heck. You could just give it a go.

 

At least then you would eliminate any doubt that there could have been a reconcilation.

 

And at this point your state of mind and feelings of closure are most important.

 

I thought about this many, many times. Every day I fantasize about what I would say and do while I was down there. The good thing is ... my "fantasies" have been less of a reconciliation, but more of a way of establishing a loving friendship. I just started the Landmark Forum and almost had a breakthrough of emotions tonight -- I am realizing that I should stop wanting and needing her love for me. I may just accept the fact that I love her and that she means a lot to me. And I will also understand that I do not need her to reciprocate to make me feel loved. I just have to accept that my need to feel loved is stemmed from a void that was needed to be filled by my family first, and then by others... and that my whole happiness should not only be dependent on her love for me.

 

SO Mary3, you are also right that she may not be thinking about me in the same way. I have thought about that a lot too. And everyday of NC has helped me cope and try to accept that possibility.

 

I think a few more days of NC and I will try to revisit my thoughts and see where I am. Thank you Clynn and Mary3...

[johnnyapples]

So we broke NC a few days ago -- and start texting and talking on the phone again. A few days ago ... we spoke on the phone like we were best buddies again. And when she told me that she was ready to go to sleep and said goodnight. I replied, "uh, okay. " And she returned with a surprised, "What does that mean?!". I told her she was looking too much into my words and I told her good night. We hung up -- I know she was a little mad.

 

This morning -- I saw her on messenger and I couldn't help it but I IM'd her. We spoke, very friendly ,but cautious. She joked that she's having a great time talking to me and that it made her forget that she was mad at me. I knew she was a bit mad so I told her that it that it was the exact reason why I initiated the IM. She liked that. We both apologized and talked for 2 to 3 hours on IM about our situation and about other stuff in general.

 

I brought up the possibility of seeing her again and she was upset. She said that right after we broke up, she wanted to have a goodbye meeting and wanted me to see her one last time and that she isn't sure it is a good idea at this time. She pointed out she is afraid that both our feelings would be rehashed and that we will have a hard time getting over it. She says that she wants us to be honest and try to work things out, but wants to close the romantic chapter.

 

After thinking about it -- I do want her as a friend and would rather lose the relationship, despite that I might have a small longing to make it work. She admitted that after we broke up she dated someone a few times briefly. but they are not seeing each other anymore because they had absolutely nothing in common. She really liked having good conversations, etc. She didn't say she missed me... but I know what she was eluding to. She made it very clear that something was missing between us even though everything else was great. I know that feeling well, because I have woken up one day and didn't have that feeling about the person I was dating, despite all the great qualities of the other person.

 

So -- we decided to try and meet with each other for 2 days and try to be as honest as we can with each other. We are aiming for no romance. However, we both agreed that if something does happen, we don't want each other to get hurt. She is afraid for me that I might get hurt more than she will. Surprisingly, I didn't resent the comment, but I could see myself being hurt by that comment in the past. Maybe there is hope for me?

 

My thoughts are to try and maintain the friendship and keep my heart in its place. In the back of my mind, I still have that 5-10% hope that things will work out... but I really would like to see where this type of relationship will go. She did confess that she hopes she didn't make a mistake and end up like an old maid -- but I don't buy that. She is pretty sure of herself and her feelings.

 

To all of you guys and gals out there -- what do you think of my thoughts and actions? Has anyone done something similar? Am I setting myself for disappointment or do you think this might turn into a new and different type of relationship?

[clynn]

Hmm, I just saw an ex I am quite fond of last night, with his girlfriend.

 

Some time had passed since we last spent time together, so although there was some awkwardness, more importantly, there was a willingness to make it work on both of our sides. We have mutual friends and so will continue to see each other over the years.

 

Once I got over the initial, oh crums, he does actually have a girlfriend and certain realization that nothing more could happen between us (in truth I was already pretty much set up for this by the time I actually saw him), then it felt really nice to behave as only his friend. He's still totally hot and I'm attracted to him and all that, but that's just cuz I'm single and I appreciate good looking men!

 

Today he phoned, but I wasn't home so he left a message. He indicated he was pleased to see me as well and hopes that we can talk soon.

 

And you know what? I really see a quality and sense about him that could never have been with me......as I was unable to accommodate certain aspects of his personality, as much as I wanted to. I simply wasn't capable. She is much better for him than me. And that is a very good thing, he is more stable and mature now with her.

 

So, my hope is that I can gain friendship and also insight into my personality and my approaches to realtionships from him. After all, he should be able to provide me with some of this. Maybe over coffee.

 

Or, maybe we won't talk at all. And we'll just be pals at social events. And that is a good thing also!

[neverwilllearn]

Thank you for teaching me the NC game. It makes all the sense in the world. Any opinions on if it will work on tour? We both mutually decided that because we live far from each other (USA-Canada) and each have a young child to think about that the future was not bright for us. But we still care very much and still romantically involved. It is difficult because one child (10 yrs old, mine) is also on tour because of her role in the show. But a womens intuition is everything. I feel him pulling back. Yet he calls my room every morning and every night, he wants to have lunch and dinner often. And even though there was intimacy a few days ago, something is different. I would like to have the best time for the rest of the 3 month tour. I really loved this man. But I suspect that him knowing that he has been the first man I have been in love with for so many years and how sensative I am, that once he told me he was worried about me being hurt in the end. My hurt is already done. I told him that when we decided we could not be together in the future. What would hurt me more is for him to now begin the cold treatment when we both fell for each other so hard. So if I feel him pulling back should I just go cold turkey. I see him everyday getting on the bus to the theater and we are in the same hotel. And I see him inbetween show picking up my daughter.. that's when he asks me for dinner. And I see him again going back on the bus to the hotel after the last show. We have 10 days off in this foreign country and I was hoping he'd join us on a couple of day trips. He said he couldn't be sure because he had some work to do on his Bass. But for 10 days?? Hence the sign of distance. Is this an ideal case for NC and is it possible on tour. Or should I just have NC because no future?? I am taking this hard by the way... like I said... I can handle the "no future" thing. It is the being around him for the next three months that is tough.

[clynn]

Touch.

 

I too work in the entertainment business.

 

I had lunch with a male friend the other day who let me know that his partner of 15 year .... they have been together for approximately 4 of those fifteen years.

 

You can't predict the future. THey certainly wouldn't have known this would've been the case when they first got involved. And I bet many many times over the course of those 15 years they have considered it over and done with, only to reconnect again.

 

You'll get hurt, he'll get hurt, everyone gets hurt. Or else you don't even go for it then what is the point of all of it anyhow.

 

I hope the next 3 months can be joyful and not hard. Some people, he for instance, adn I know am sometimes can be this way, focus on the negative instead of the hear and now....

 

Hope he can put himself in the present!

[Mary3]

Trust you instinct on this one.

 

It sounds like you are in for some hurt .

 

But since you have this site you can minimize that hurt by looking for the signs of someone letting you go.

 

If he still calls and wants to see you , then you have more than alot of ppl do who on here ,who have no calls, games played , disrepect of their feelings ect.. If he is hinting at letting go then so should you. If he is distancing himself there is a good reason ( at least for him ).

 

Put the cards on the table . What does he want ? What do you want ? Save yourself alot of hurt my having him define what you both have or ( are losing ..)

 

We all learn so much here , lets take our knowledge and apply it , thanking Love Shack in the process of those of us who were left wondering what the hell happened. ?