The case for leaving a cheater

[drifter777]

That's all very true, but I think there is more to it than just that. Unless one marries a virgin (male or female) then one is marrying somebody who has "screwed around". So the problem, I think, also involves the marriage vows being broken. And it involves social pressure.

Sexual infidelity is defined by the cheater being in a committed, LTR - not how many people they slept with before that commitment.

 

I think there is something to what you say in that I don't think people are naturally monogamous. The strongest evolutionary evidence would point to both men and women having sex with others outside of their committed relationships. Men are programmed to spread their seed. Women are programmed to live with a good man who will protect her and help raise the children but screw the strong, bad boys in their tribe who father their children.

 

There are many things that are not "natural" to the human condition that we must change or give up to live in a civilized world. Unacceptable things like the strongest raping and pillaging the weak. Oh, wait - that happens all the time.

 

If we are going to use the "it's our nature" defense for infidelity, then why haven't I cheated?

[Owl]

Drifter...were you your wife's "first and only"? Had she never been with another man prior to being with you?

 

If so...I can kind of understand your viewpoint.

 

But if she was not...physically, there's nothing different about her post A than pre A.

 

As I'd said previously...the only difference is YOUR PERCEPTION OF HER.

 

SHE is no different than she was before...what's damaged is your perception...and from what I've gathered, you have zero desire or interest in trying to change that.

[drifter777]

Drifter...were you your wife's "first and only"? Had she never been with another man prior to being with you?

 

If so...I can kind of understand your viewpoint.

 

But if she was not...physically, there's nothing different about her post A than pre A.

 

As I'd said previously...the only difference is YOUR PERCEPTION OF HER.

 

SHE is no different than she was before...what's damaged is your perception...and from what I've gathered, you have zero desire or interest in trying to change that.

First off, my wife was sexually active before I met her and I have zero issue with it. I think it is a good thing for women and men to experience sex with other people before committing to marriage.

 

As for the rest of your post, I've never read such drivel from you. What does the physical condition of her vagina have to do with her cheating and my reaction to it? My perception of her is that she selfishly betrayed me because it was fun and it felt good. That our marriage and my feelings meant absolutely nothing to her when she flirted with and then screwed these guys. Just writing this arouses the anger and hatred I feel for her because of what she did and for myself for not divorcing her. I am able to resolve my harsh feeling for her by remembering how long ago it was and that she has proven not to be that woman anymore, and I have to do that every time I trigger. I've never found a way to excuse my disgusting behavior.

 

Your accusation that I have zero interest in trying to change is insulting. You don't know me. You don't know the counselor I see every Monday. You don't know what its like to have images of your wife screwing another man. Don't ever condemn me for my emotions. I have never asked for any advice - at least that I can remember - from anyone on LS. I occasionally ask for opinions about my situation and am always honest about how I feel being a BH.

 

This thread is nothing more than my attempt to offer guidance to other BH's who are shocked and bewildered in the wake of d-day. There is reconciliation; but understand just how difficult that path is under the best of circumstances. And in the end you might find that you are the kind of man who will never be at peace with what your WW did. There is divorce - a path that may be as hard to walk as reconciliation but for some men it is the best choice. Not living with the WW cuts down the mental images and angry outbursts because you don't have to look at her every day. Divorcing a WW gives a man a a better chance to regain self-respect and the feeling of balance in his life. She chose to cheat and you made her pay the price. We all say that divorce is a viable option but then urge nearly every BH to try to R and continue to advise him to hang in there because the passing of time will make things easier. I want BH's to know that trying to R because of the kids or their fear of being alone is a bad idea and that they will suffer more pain in the end then if they just walk away.

 

I usually get this criticism from WW's who have a vested interest in a BH reconciling and forgiving. Funny how that works. I don't understand your emotional attack.

[Owl]

Drifter, in no way was this meant as an attack.

 

I simply said what I've observed...that you don't seem to understand that it's not your wife that's changed...it's you. It's YOUR perception of her, and your unwillingness to view her (or any other 'cheater') in any other way.

 

That anger that you felt and expressed after reading my post...has nothing to do with who she is today, or even what I said.

 

My thought that you don't want to change is simply based off your unwavering stance and repeated expressed contempt for those that have reconciled. This thread doesn't have jack to do with helping a new BH...it's got everything to do with insulting those that have reconciled. Go back and re-read that opening post again, from the viewpoint of those who have reconciled.

 

In fact...I think it's lashing out at yourself for choosing to stay without addressing the problem...that's the real origins of this thread, in my opinion.

 

I get that when you think about it...you hate your wife for what she's done. My question is...WHY? When that's not who she is today, by your own admission...why? You don't have to feel the way that you do about her. Yet you do...why?

[veritas lux mea]

First off, my wife was sexually active before I met her and I have zero issue with it. I think it is a good thing for women and men to experience sex with other people before committing to marriage.

 

As for the rest of your post, I've never read such drivel from you. What does the physical condition of her vagina have to do with her cheating and my reaction to it? My perception of her is that she selfishly betrayed me because it was fun and it felt good. That our marriage and my feelings meant absolutely nothing to her when she flirted with and then screwed these guys. Just writing this arouses the anger and hatred I feel for her because of what she did and for myself for not divorcing her. I am able to resolve my harsh feeling for her by remembering how long ago it was and that she has proven not to be that woman anymore, and I have to do that every time I trigger. I've never found a way to excuse my disgusting behavior.

 

Your accusation that I have zero interest in trying to change is insulting. You don't know me. You don't know the counselor I see every Monday. You don't know what its like to have images of your wife screwing another man. Don't ever condemn me for my emotions. I have never asked for any advice - at least that I can remember - from anyone on LS. I occasionally ask for opinions about my situation and am always honest about how I feel being a BH.

 

This thread is nothing more than my attempt to offer guidance to other BH's who are shocked and bewildered in the wake of d-day. There is reconciliation; but understand just how difficult that path is under the best of circumstances. And in the end you might find that you are the kind of man who will never be at peace with what your WW did. There is divorce - a path that may be as hard to walk as reconciliation but for some men it is the best choice. Not living with the WW cuts down the mental images and angry outbursts because you don't have to look at her every day. Divorcing a WW gives a man a a better chance to regain self-respect and the feeling of balance in his life. She chose to cheat and you made her pay the price. We all say that divorce is a viable option but then urge nearly every BH to try to R and continue to advise him to hang in there because the passing of time will make things easier. I want BH's to know that trying to R because of the kids or their fear of being alone is a bad idea and that they will suffer more pain in the end then if they just walk away.

 

I usually get this criticism from WW's who have a vested interest in a BH reconciling and forgiving. Funny how that works. I don't understand your emotional attack.

 

This is just sad...

 

And you and my husband are as different as night and day. My man is a man who will not become bitter, twisted, cruel and full of hate. He is big enough to forgive and not so selfish to think it is all about him or that I am tainted goods. And we have no children to tie us together. Just are complete love for each other and maybe that is the difference. Maybe you never loved your wife and it was only for the children. I think that the people who can walk easy without any looking back never loved their spouse to begin with. I think if someone does when it actually happens to them the descision is difficult. And those people need to look at the behaviour of their WS and then they may need to build a case for divorce. Or simply choose to live because they know they don't ever want to forgive.

[KathyM]

This is just sad...

 

And you and my husband are as different as night and day. My man is a man who will not become bitter, twisted, cruel and full of hate. He is big enough to forgive and not so selfish to think it is all about him or that I am tainted goods. And we have no children to tie us together. Just are complete love for each other and maybe that is the difference. Maybe you never loved your wife and it was only for the children.

That is not a fair statement, that because a BS either divorces or has not/cannot recover from an affair, that he never loved his spouse. Infidelity often destroys love or seriously damages it. That doesn't mean that the love was not there to begin with. And I doubt Drifter would have stayed if he had no love or feelings towards his wife, this infidelity just cut him to the core, and he now has ambivalent feelings towards his wife. He is not able to recover from the betrayal, or has not been able to. Some people can't. Not completely. His perception of her is forever tarnished. That often is the case when there is infidelity, whether the couple reconciles or divorces.

I think that the people who can walk easy without any looking back never loved their spouse to begin with. I think if someone does when it actually happens to them the descision is difficult.

Leaving a spouse is a very difficult thing, and it's highly doubtful anyone is waltzing out of the marriage so easily. Even if they decide to leave, they are likely doing so with a very heavy heart. Deciding to leave an unfaithful spouse does not mean that the BS never loved the WS. But betrayal does often damage or destroy the love a BS had for the WS.

And those people need to look at the behaviour of their WS and then they may need to build a case for divorce.

They don't need to "build a case for divorce." It is their right and perrogative to decide that infidelity is a dealbreaker. But I would suggest that people carefully weigh all of the ramifications of both choices before making the choice of whether to stay or divorce. In Drifter's case, it would have probably been best if he had left, and he realizes that now, because it has been so difficult for him to move past this and he has not been able to move past it, despite the counseling he is receiving.

Or simply choose to live because they know they don't ever want to forgive.

Drifter probably does want to forgive and put this past him, since he has decided to stay, but the mind movies and triggers are preventing him from moving past this, and he keeps tormenting himself over the choice to stay that he made at the time and now regrets. He is still in the processing stage of the betrayal, and has not been able to move past it because he regrets his decision to stay. Maybe he never will be able to move past it, because he regrets his decision to stay. Sometimes, and with some people, the pain just runs too deep, and every time he looks at his wife, he feels that pain. I would suggest, in Drifter's case, since he is determined to stay in the marriage, he may want to consider getting EMDR therapy. Ask your therapist about it, Drifter. It is often used for people who have PTSD, and are tormented by the mind movies of devastating events that they experienced.

 

 

And I'll add that forgiveness can come, whether a person decides to stay in a marriage or to leave it. It would be nice if a BS can get to a place where they do forgive, regardless of whether they ultimately stay or leave the relationship. It sounds like Drifter is not at that place yet, and I hope he is working on getting to a place of forgiveness with the help of his counselor or his clergy (if he has one).

Edited March 31, 2014 by KathyM

[italianjob]

This is just sad...

 

And you and my husband are as different as night and day. My man is a man who will not become bitter, twisted, cruel and full of hate. He is big enough to forgive and not so selfish to think it is all about him or that I am tainted goods. And we have no children to tie us together. Just are complete love for each other and maybe that is the difference. Maybe you never loved your wife and it was only for the children. I think that the people who can walk easy without any looking back never loved their spouse to begin with. I think if someone does when it actually happens to them the descision is difficult. And those people need to look at the behaviour of their WS and then they may need to build a case for divorce. Or simply choose to live because they know they don't ever want to forgive.

 

veritas, I think it's unfair to compare situations if you don't know the details. It's true that some people can forgive and try to rebuild, and some can't, but it also depends on what exactly happened. My wife was strong and loving and I was allowed to reconcile with her, but maybe, if the circumstances of my cheating had been different, they could have been too hard to forgive, and she may not have been able to do it. And probably the same goes for you and your husband.

Not everyone can forgive but also not everything is forgivable to everyone.

[drifter777]

This thread doesn't have jack to do with helping a new BH...it's got everything to do with insulting those that have reconciled. Go back and re-read that opening post again, from the viewpoint of those who have reconciled.

Your projection of my intention for this thread is ridicules. Here's my opening post:

 

There are lots of reasons to try to reconcile after the affair. One thing we all know is how difficult it is to rebuild a marriage destroyed by infidelity. So, looking at the other side of this coin here are 10 reasons (not mine - I plagiarized the whole thing) not to take back a cheater:

 

Would most of the BH's agree that there a lots of reasons to try to reconcile? Would they disagree that is was difficult? Would you agree that there is, in fact, another choice that a BH can make?

 

I've never, ever expressed contempt for those who have reconciled. Because I say that a BH should take the divorce path when there are no kids involved is my strong opinion. I also think that if a BH is able to determine, through counseling or however, that they are not capable of accepting a wife who cheated they shouldn't waste the time or emotional energy on reconciliation. You can believe I'm wrong or that I shouldn't express my experiences or beliefs on this forum but I am who I am.