Moses needed a map

[Robert Z]

So he wandered through the desert for 40 years looking for the promised land.

 

 

If we assume 8 hours per day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year, and an average walking speed of 1 mph [the average for a human is 3 mph], then Moses and company should have travelled about 80,000 miles, which is a little over three times around the globe at the equator.

 

 

Yet he only needed to cross the desert. The man really needed a map.

[taiko]

If he used a map or just followed he sun then he, and Israel would have defied their orders, .....again and it may have been more than one generation dying In the Sinai

[Robert Z]

It appears to me that at most we are talking about 1000 miles or less.

http://frmarkdwhite.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/exodus-map.gif

[taiko]

Israel made it to the Promised Land but when told to take it they balked and sent agents to spy out the land. Upon returning the nation feared the reports of 11 of the 12 teams of the spies they refused God's order and then continued to follow the cloud and feed on manna in the wilderness. Only after the generation died off except for the one spy who said to go forward 40 years earlier did they finally cross the river lead by the now old man as Moses died with the rest of that generation who defied their orders to attack.

[Robert Z]

They must have been making a lot of U-turns.

[TheFinalWord]

So he wandered through the desert for 40 years looking for the promised land.

 

Sounds a lot like my life...

[OpenBook]

I thought men never read maps.

[Robert Z]

I thought men never read maps.

 

 

You essentially stole my joke! I almost added that this could have all been avoided if he had asked for directions.

 

 

At the least, he must have been camping for 40 years, not wandering.

[TheFinalWord]

I thought men never read maps.

 

That made me LOL

[M30USA]

This thread keeps getting funnier!

 

You know what's crazy? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Israelities were following the pillar of cloud by day and pillar of fire by night (which was directed by the angel of the Lord) while they were in the desert. This means that God was deliberately leading them in circles through the desert. Why? I believe it was to teach them lessons that they needed to learn since they previously refused to trust God and obey him.

 

Either that or the angel of the Lord's GPS system was busted.

Edited April 1, 2014 by M30USA

[M30USA]

Israel made it to the Promised Land but when told to take it they balked and sent agents to spy out the land. Upon returning the nation feared the reports of 11 of the 12 teams of the spies they refused God's order and then continued to follow the cloud and feed on manna in the wilderness. Only after the generation died off except for the one spy who said to go forward 40 years earlier did they finally cross the river lead by the now old man as Moses died with the rest of that generation who defied their orders to attack.

 

Anyone know the primary thing that the Israelites were afraid of in the promised land? Anybody?

[Grumpybutfun]

I know I've had to wander, lost and confused before finding what I was searching for...maybe this is where that saying come from...it isn't the destination that matters but the journey. Sometimes the best lessons aren't the ones we learn through lectures and scriptures but through personal experience. Even experiences where we are going round and round and round....

Grumps

[Grumpybutfun]

Anyone know the primary thing that the Israelites were afraid of in the promised land? Anybody?

 

 

Is this in line with the twelve spies...then it would have been the fortified cities and the giants..they were afraid they would fail. Only Caleb and Joshua brought back any good news of the twelves, the rest were doubtful. I believe the doublet for this is in Numbers. I am kind of rusty, M30, so I could be off.

G

[TheFinalWord]

I know I've had to wander, lost and confused before finding what I was searching for...maybe this is where that saying come from...it isn't the destination that matters but the journey. Sometimes the best lessons aren't the ones we learn through lectures and scriptures but through personal experience. Even experiences where we are going round and round and round....

Grumps

 

Wow, great insight!

[taiko]

Another way to look at it is once they got to the objective and refused to attack they left themselves open to raiders from the people they feared. Then to feed a nation in the desert they had to keep moving to find fresh resources. It is a miracle that Moses held the tribes together at all.

[Koopa]

I like the theory that in the very early parts of the bible years were misinterpreted as months which would put all these people that supposedly lived to be 900 years old around 75 years old give or take, so under that logic 40 years would be 3 years 4 months that makes a lot more sense to me.

 

another explanation is 40 years is bible speak for "really long time"

[M30USA]

I like the theory that in the very early parts of the bible years were misinterpreted as months which would put all these people that supposedly lived to be 900 years old around 75 years old give or take, so under that logic 40 years would be 3 years 4 months that makes a lot more sense to me.

 

another explanation is 40 years is bible speak for "really long time"

 

That theory sounds rational until you consider that the same word "year" was used for both early men like Adam (lived 965 years) and later men who have the same lifespan as us today. There was a gradual decline in lifespan until shortly after the Flood, at which time it seemed to stabilize.

 

I would believe your theory if there was a sudden shift in Scripture from the 900 range to the 100 range. But there was not. It was gradual over about 15 generations.

 

The key here that refutes your theory are the MEDIUM lifespan people, like Noah and his son Shem who each lived around 500 years. Were their years counted in double months or "bimonthly"?

Edited April 1, 2014 by M30USA

[Koopa]

I would believe your theory if there was a sudden shift in Scripture from the 900 range to the 100 range. But there was not. It was gradual over about 15 generations.

 

The key here that refutes your theory are the MEDIUM lifespan people, like Noah and his son Shem who each lived around 500 years. Were their years counted in double months or "bimonthly"?

 

In that time there was no universal control of time and measurements like we have now and people may not have carried around a calendar keeping track of what year it was, I doubt Noah said he was born in 3000 BC (not sure if thats accurate) since Christ was not even born yet. They may have kept track of the season but they are in the freaking desert where it does not change much no matter what season it is. If you were older than someone back then you could probably say you were 1,000 years old and the person would probably believe you, and you probably did not know the real answer yourself.

[M30USA]

In that time there was no universal control of time and measurements like we have now and people may not have carried around a calendar keeping track of what year it was, I doubt Noah said he was born in 3000 BC (not sure if thats accurate) since Christ was not even born yet. They may have kept track of the season but they are in the freaking desert where it does not change much no matter what season it is. If you were older than someone back then you could probably say you were 1,000 years old and the person would probably believe you, and you probably did not know the real answer yourself.

 

Just a few things to consider:

 

1) It's possible that the records from the Pentateuch (first 5 books) were not handed down but rather revealed to Moses at Mt. Sinai when God or the angel of the Lord descended and also gave him the 10 commandments. If this is the case, then it wouldn't matter if or how the human measurement of years changed.

 

2) Even if the years were recorded as they happened, you underestimate human knowledge in ancient times. The Sumerians and Egyptians both had advanced astrology and date/time keeping. They knew exactly how many planets were in our solar system, yet we ourselves did not discover this until just 300 years ago? Something doesn't add up.

 

3) The ancient Israelites did use a lunar year system, not solar year. If I remember correctly a lunar year is about 95% the length of a solar year. So considering we are talking about only thousands of years, it wouldn't result in more than a few hundred years discrepancy. And for an individual lifespan we are talking maybe just several years, tops.

[pie2]

They may have kept track of the season but they are in the freaking desert where it does not change much no matter what season it is.

 

 

 

I wouldn't underestimate the ability of people who live large amounts of their life outside to keep track of seasons, moons, star patterns, etc. All of that stuff, including heat, cold (there's probably more cold in the desert than you realize), agriculture, hunting etc was so important to their survival, I bet they were able to keep track of the years pretty well.

 

 

If you were older than someone back then you could probably say you were 1,000 years old and the person would probably believe you, and you probably did not know the real answer yourself.

 

 

However, I agree that this could have been a slight issue. Not enough to make up for hundreds of years, but at least a few years here and there. Considering this still goes on in recent history (like in more remote or indigenous cultures who may not have access to accurate birth recording systems), I think there's always the possibility of some small human error.