Emotional Baggage/Past Abuse

[biologist078]

Hi

 

I'm posting this as I have zero experience of this type of experience.

 

I was dating a girl two weeks ago who I met on a dating website. We got along great, went out three times and spoke on the phone most days to get to know each other. Things seemed to be going great. However, within three days of knowing her she told me she'd been raped when she was 19 by an ex. Her son is also the product of that rape. She also said she was scarred in the sense that she didn't really enjoy having sex. I chose to not let this skew my decision to carry on seeing her because I thought she was a great girl. Over the course of the next few days she revealed things about herself that may seem like red flags. She said things like she didn't expect her happiness to last and that she'd been on antidepressants in the last six months. Would you tell a new guy all this info so soon? None of it bothered me at the time. She also said that her past boyfriends were possessive etc and that they were all insecure, something which I am not.

 

The last time I saw her she invited me to her house to stay over. We were having a few drinks. She asked me why I'd not had kids yet seeing as I'm 33. I made a comment about people who have kids that don't even care about them. She took this to offence and asked me to leave. This took me by complete surprise because what I said wasn't directed to her in anyway at all.

 

I've told the said girl that I don't want to see her again because I will not tolerate behaviour like this. It's really sad because in the short space of time I treated her with nothing but dignity and respect and would have been there. Her dating profile also said "no drama" which I found quite strange seeing as she was the one creating it. Do people who say "no drama" actually create it all themselves?

 

I've done a lot of research about this situation and it's got me asking questions like. I do fully sympathise with the girl but I just can't make sense of how things can turn so sour so quick. I'm not looking to ever contact this girl again, I just want to try and understand it in my own mind.

 

1) do people in bad relationships come to expect this from future relationships? Therefore self-sabotage any potential relationship with a decent guy?

 

2) are victims of rape likely to have such low self esteem that they push decent guys away.

 

3)do people who say they don't like drama say that because they are the ones that create it?

 

3) do people with low self esteem seek out men who will treat them like crap because this is all they know?

 

4) is it true that the more you treat an emotionally unstable with respect the more they are likely to run away?

 

5) are abuse victims more likely to self-sabotage healthy relationships?

 

Any view points or experience on this would be much appreciated.

 

Many thanks.

[Radu]

Hi

 

I'm posting this as I have zero experience of this type of experience.

 

I was dating a girl two weeks ago who I met on a dating website. We got along great, went out three times and spoke on the phone most days to get to know each other. Things seemed to be going great. However, within three days of knowing her she told me she'd been raped when she was 19 by an ex.

Red flag for saying it so fast.

 

Her son is also the product of that rape.

Red flag.

I have no doubt that she loves her son, but can you imagine to be reminded everyday about the man who raped you and produced that child [a boy too].

I would imagine that someone who went through this sought therapy and worked through their issues.

 

She also said she was scarred in the sense that she didn't really enjoy having sex.

Translation ... we will not be having sex, at least not lots of it.

Prepare for dryspell after we had our kids.

 

I chose to not let this skew my decision to carry on seeing her because I thought she was a great girl.

Off-course not, the world needs more sacrificial white knights.

 

Over the course of the next few days she revealed things about herself that may seem like red flags. She said things like she didn't expect her happiness to last and that she'd been on antidepressants in the last six months. Would you tell a new guy all this info so soon?

Only this is red flag for you ???

She told you on day 3 that she has been raped a long time ago, and that you won't be having much [or any] sex ... which hints a little at not having done therapy after what happened.

 

None of it bothered me at the time. She also said that her past boyfriends were possessive etc and that they were all insecure, something which I am not.

She either has a history of choosing bad men [which might tie into the rape], or ... she will demonize everyone who leaves her.

Either way, a golden rule is to not date someone who tells you 'all my past relationships were bad'.

Those ppl have baggage, one way or the other.

 

The last time I saw her she invited me to her house to stay over. We were having a few drinks. She asked me why I'd not had kids yet seeing as I'm 33. I made a comment about people who have kids that don't even care about them. She took this to offence and asked me to leave. This took me by complete surprise because what I said wasn't directed to her in anyway at all.

Ok, one thing i kinda read between the lines is that you two haven't been together long ... a single mother invites someone she hasn't known for a long time for drinks in her home ?; where was the boy ?; i hope not home.

As for the rest, she has issues. Maybe you could have worded it another way [it was a bit foot in mouth, and she understood that you were judging her for choosing to not abort her son], but this ties very nicely with what she has already told you.

That she expects her happiness to not last, that she expects the worst from you.

 

I've told the said girl that I don't want to see her again because I will not tolerate behaviour like this. It's really sad because in the short space of time I treated her with nothing but dignity and respect and would have been there. Her dating profile also said "no drama" which I found quite strange seeing as she was the one creating it. Do people who say "no drama" actually create it all themselves?

I don't do online dating, but from my experience ... the women who complain the loudest about drama tend to have a drama hurricane centered on them.

 

I've done a lot of research about this situation and it's got me asking questions like. I do fully sympathise with the girl but I just can't make sense of how things can turn so sour so quick. I'm not looking to ever contact this girl again, I just want to try and understand it in my own mind.

Good, less white knights.

 

1) do people in bad relationships come to expect this from future relationships? Therefore self-sabotage any potential relationship with a decent guy?

I can't speak for others but yes to the former question.

The latter i suspect yes, mostly from my own experience.

I'm a guy but i was in a few bad relationships, one after the other and at some point i expected and understood drama and stress came with the territory.

 

2) are victims of rape likely to have such low self esteem that they push decent guys away.

Out of respect for the ladies on this board who went through this i will not speak in absolutes.

But i would suspect that that's the case; also, i suspect it also depends on weather or not the person in question worked through therapy on the issue ... as it is with any kind of dramatic event.

 

3)do people who say they don't like drama say that because they are the ones that create it?

Sometimes.

But there is a difference in gender here.

Drama tends to be harder to process for men than it is for women ... and i've never dated men to know if they say and act the same in private.

I have said in front of friends that i hate drama, but i don't think that i've caused it.

 

3) do people with low self esteem seek out men who will treat them like crap because this is all they know?

Yes, avoid women with low self-esteem for romantic relationships and overall ppl with low self-esteem.

 

4) is it true that the more you treat an emotionally unstable with respect the more they are likely to run away?

All i know is that it's the wrong way that person may want to be treated.

What we say and what we actually mean can be 2 different things.

 

2 women may say the same thing, that they both want the same type of guy.

One who is healthy and comes from a family with a good example of male-female interaction [parents] may think of that when she says it.

The other one may come from dysfunction and experienced dysfunction and may actually think 'pls God, when will i meet a nice person'.

 

Same words, different background.

 

It has been my experience though that a healthy person won't come out and say in just after a few days that 'i want a normal person, i'm glad you're normal, all my ex's are nuts'.

Regardless of gender, that's a massive red flag.

 

5) are abuse victims more likely to self-sabotage healthy relationships?

 

Any view points or experience on this would be much appreciated.

 

Many thanks.

I would assume yes, since they may not think they deserve it deep down.

It's like ... waiting for the other shoe to drop, when will the messed up **** appear ???

[biologist078]

Wow good analysis.

 

The funny thing is she is a successful person with the World at her feet.

 

I really hope she gets help so she doesn't push all decent blokes away. I guess I am miffed to a degree but I myself cannot deal with all the baggage if she isn't/wasn't going to respect me due to her past experiences.

 

I hate to say this but I'm glad I walked away.

[spiderowl]

Sounds like she misinterpreted what you said and thought it was directed at her. If her past is true, she may well be oversensitive about it. It's a lot of baggage. For whatever reason, she's decided you are not right for her. Maybe she felt uneasy because you didn't have kids and thought you would not understand her situation. When my children were a bit younger and I met someone new, I'd pay careful attention to their attitudes to kids.

 

She didn't give you chance to explain which is rude. She may well be very over-protective of herself and her kids. Trauma can make people a bit trigger happy. There is also the possibility that your comment about kids wasn't the first one that worried her. Whatever the situation, she could have ended the evening politely and just not pursued anything later. Throwing someone out is a bit over the top unless they have shown themselves to be extremely rude or dangerous in some way.

[biologist078]

Thanks for the reply

 

I don't think it was anything I said previously because I did say to her that I do want children when the time is right, with the right person.

 

I've also read that people with emotional baggage are very thin skinned and are unable to distinguish if someone is making a general comment or it is directed at them.

 

From what I've read and been told it all points towards self-sabotage because I treated her with respect, something she wasn't used to.

 

I'm not taking it to heart because I do not understand what it's like to be raped. All I know is that she should've been respectful to me at the time.

[Radu]

Thanks for the reply

 

I don't think it was anything I said previously because I did say to her that I do want children when the time is right, with the right person.

 

I've also read that people with emotional baggage are very thin skinned and are unable to distinguish if someone is making a general comment or it is directed at them.

 

From what I've read and been told it all points towards self-sabotage because I treated her with respect, something she wasn't used to.

 

I'm not taking it to heart because I do not understand what it's like to be raped. All I know is that she should've been respectful to me at the time.

 

The bolded is very true if they have not dealt with the issue ... because they are waiting, looking for how it could go wrong.

[regine_phalange]

She does seem to have a lot of baggage, and I don't think you can help her drop it. Maybe it will sound harsh, but you did a right choice. I will answer some of the questions:

 

1) do people in bad relationships come to expect this from future relationships? Therefore self-sabotage any potential relationship with a decent guy?

 

If they aren't over the situation, yes. When they start to heal they become the person they were before, but it is a slow process. It has taken me almost 3 years, and I feel my old optimistic self coming back (but with more knowledge this time).

 

3)do people who say they don't like drama say that because they are the ones that create it?

 

If they had normal relationships in the past, no. In my case, I really dislike drama, because a) I've been in calm relationships before and they were a lot more enjoyable, b) I'm quite sensitive and just can't handle emotional overkill, c) it feels like purposeless waste of grey matter when you have a busy life

 

3) do people with low self esteem seek out men who will treat them like crap because this is all they know?

 

It's possible. In my case, I was just naive about all boyfriends being good people, because my previous experiences were with good people.

 

4) is it true that the more you treat an emotionally unstable with respect the more they are likely to run away?

 

Not necessarily, but it's very posible that they will keep being emotionally unstable if they are still afected by an abusive event/relationship.

 

5) are abuse victims more likely to self-sabotage healthy relationships?

 

If they feel they can't give things right now, probably. But after they heal and move on I think they are attracted even more to truly lovely and good people, because now they know they are a hard-to-find treasure.

[biologist078]

I think the most confusing thing about it is that in the two weeks I knew her she was saying how happy she was that we'd met etc. I'm still confused about how things can be spun around on their head just like that. I guess with the responses you've given it's sort of answered that question really.

 

I guess it's left a bad taste really because I now feel like I'm going to be judging future dates by their past relationships and I really really don't want to do that.

[ThatMan]

1) do people in bad relationships come to expect this from future relationships? Therefore self-sabotage any potential relationship with a decent guy?

Stop yourself right there. It isn't about their expectations so much as who they are, what they're familiar with, and what they seek out. Most people tend to be involved in at least one bad relationship at some point. But when people have suffered through all of their relationships then something is terribly wrong. You need to stay away from these people. They're not ready for healthy relationships.

2) are victims of rape likely to have such low self esteem that they push decent guys away.

Anyone who has endured any form of abuse will probably have low self-esteem. Abuse erodes away at the relationship people place with themselves. Abuse causes individuals to lose trust in themselves and their decisions, they do not value themselves, and they do not have positive self-esteem. It takes time and effort to heal and move on from abuse.

 

3)do people who say they don't like drama say that because they are the ones that create it?

Judge people by whether or not they actively create drama - not by whatever claims they make.

 

3) (another 3?) do people with low self esteem seek out men who will treat them like crap because this is all they know?

Yes. Anything is possible. It's also possible that people immediately confine in others about rape, invented or real, because they seek out men who are overly co-dependent, a.k.a. Savers and Fixers.

4) is it true that the more you treat an emotionally unstable with respect the more they are likely to run away?

I would hope so! But the truth is that the more respect you offer to those who are emotionally unstable, the more you will be walked all over. You need to stay away from anyone who is emotionally unstable because they're incapable of fostering healthy relationships. Just remember that extreme emotional volatility is NOT the same as being empathic! If she is emotionally unstable then she won't be capable of reaching deep within herself for a sense of understanding. She won't care about how you're feeling, nor understand how you're feeling by putting herself in your shoes, nor display any form of genuine care or concern, and she'll be more likely to be the one who inflicts abuse or mistreatment of you.

5) are abuse victims more likely to self-sabotage healthy relationships?

Not always but anything is possible.

 

I guess it's left a bad taste really because I now feel like I'm going to be judging future dates by their past relationships and I really really don't want to do that.

Why not?!

 

Individuals identify themselves through choosing the people to associate with. You can determine a lot by a history of failed relationships. Coming forward with a history of abuse, in addition to assigning blame to all previous spouses, are all huge hallmarks of severe psychiatric disorders. Avoid those who have a long standing history of failed platonic friendships, and also demonize every man they've ever had a relationship with, because this history tells you everything you need to know about their lack of ability to relate to others and interact in a positive way. These people make up for their emotional volatility by idealizing others. They may seem great at first, but they're merely placing you on a pedestal in a desperate effort to pull the blinds over your eyes to ignore their lack of empathy, their inability to interact with other people in a positive way, and of constant chaos that exists within herself. These are all very strong traits in borderline personality disorder. Those with borderline personality disorder will outright invent abuse to immediately disclose to new love interests as a way to test the waters/lure in those who are commonly referred to as fixers. I'm not suggesting that you attempt to diagnose other people. But some people aren't ready for a relationship yet.

 

Quite frankly,

You seem to willing to overlook far more than what most people would. Don't ignore your own intuition under the belief it somehow shews decisions in a bad way. You need to stay away from certain individuals. In fact it is exactly these sort of people who justify to themselves inflicting terrible abuse onto a loved one by demonizing them. Chances are that there's actually a few people from her past who are decent people... Who were anything but jealous, insecure, or somehow evil. What's important is that you've been made aware of the fact that she struggles with emotional turmoil and she invents drama. These should always be traits to avoid. Why aren't you actively avoiding them? Think about what your doing before you ruin your own life...

 

Don't be willing to overlook unhealthy.

Dating someone who is unhealthy is like diving into the ocean to recuse a swimmer without a life-vest. You'll be dragged to the bottom of the ocean and drowned.

Edited April 1, 2014 by ThatMan

[Radu]

I think the most confusing thing about it is that in the two weeks I knew her she was saying how happy she was that we'd met etc. I'm still confused about how things can be spun around on their head just like that. I guess with the responses you've given it's sort of answered that question really.

 

I guess it's left a bad taste really because I now feel like I'm going to be judging future dates by their past relationships and I really really don't want to do that.

 

You should be judging them by this.

 

Since i've started doing this [around 1yr], i have already dodged 1 massive bullet.

 

Let them speak about themselves, and try not to judge in the moment [they will be looking to see if you dissaprove], but do think about it when you get home.

You will be surprised at what ppl tell you.

[spiderowl]

I think the most confusing thing about it is that in the two weeks I knew her she was saying how happy she was that we'd met etc. I'm still confused about how things can be spun around on their head just like that. I guess with the responses you've given it's sort of answered that question really.

 

I guess it's left a bad taste really because I now feel like I'm going to be judging future dates by their past relationships and I really really don't want to do that.

 

If her reaction was immediately after your comment about people not loving their kids then I think you said some trigger words. She might not even know why they upset her so much. Trauma has that effect. It is a shame because if this is the case, then she is not choosing her own destiny either. If you are still in touch in any way, perhaps you could mention that you liked her and don't know what you did to deserve such treatment. Then leave it at that. She'll think about it. There are no guarantees and why would you want to risk that again anyway?

 

The reason I mention the above is that I discovered recently how I reacted judgmentally because of previous hurts. It was a very perceptive person who showed me that and I doubt this woman has access to such a person.

[CC12]

I've done a lot of research about this situation

 

I think your time could be better spent doing something else, to be honest. I mean if you're interested in the effects of abuse then read some literature on the subject just for your own knowledge, but you can't really apply any of it to that girl because you just don't know her well enough to try to guess what's going on in her brain.

 

And I think you might be missing the mark with all this "Was this self-sabotage?" stuff. I think it's a lot more simple than that. You said something that offended her, and she asked you to leave, which in itself is an appropriate reaction to someone saying something offensive in your own home. Now, if she smashed a plate against the wall and screamed at you to get the **** out, well, that's pretty crazy, but it wouldn't make her wrong for asking you to leave.

 

I don't know exactly what you said to her, but a comment about "people who have kids that don't even care about them" does sound judgmental to me and possibly insulting depending on the context. So I think your time would be better spent analyzing what you said, how and why it offended someone, and why your reaction to that person was "I will not tolerate this behavior" instead of "Whoa, let me explain, I'm sorry if that came out wrong."

 

Not that I think you should apologize to her at this point or keep trying to pursue her, because I think she would not make a good partner for various reasons. I just think you should examine yourself instead of psychoanalyzing someone you barely know.

[biologist078]

I think your time could be better spent doing something else, to be honest. I mean if you're interested in the effects of abuse then read some literature on the subject just for your own knowledge, but you can't really apply any of it to that girl because you just don't know her well enough to try to guess what's going on in her brain.

 

Sorry but I've not been through this situation before so to understand it I read about it. This will help me to look for the "red flags" next time.

[biologist078]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

I guess she is a decent person but obviously bad things happened along the way that have had a massive impact on her life.

 

This may seem normal to her but I know it doesn't match up to what I think normal is. Therefore, I can only come to the conclusion that I'm better off not seeing her and looking for someone who understands the concept of a "healthy relationship".

[travelbug1996]

 

i don't know exactly what you said to her, but a comment about "people who have kids that don't even care about them" does sound judgmental to me and possibly insulting depending on the context. So i think your time would be better spent analyzing what you said, how and why it offended someone, and why your reaction to that person was "i will not tolerate this behavior" instead of "whoa, let me explain, i'm sorry if that came out wrong."

 

i just think you should examine yourself instead of psychoanalyzing someone you barely know.

 

this^^^^^^^^^^^