Living in hell

[italianjob]

It doesn't take two seconds to determine that Argentina has "just cause" requirements in labor dismissal just like every other developed country.

 

My arguments are valid, yours, pun intended, are all over the map.

 

"Just cause" requirements don't necessarily mean relationships between employee and employer will get you in trouble with the law.

Your arguments are actually quote thin.

[fellini]

Well now I see if I say the sky is blue you'll tell me that depends on if you're colour blind or not.

 

You are just arguing for the sake of not standing down.

 

I made my point: the husband, by having a sexual relationship WITH an EMPLOYEE is RISKING the financials of his company SHOULD he have to DISMISS her. The wife could EASILY win this argument in court. The husband cannot EASILY dismiss a broken down relationship with an employee and at the same time can HARDLY AFFORD to keep her on IF he decides to end it and she decides to stay. The company is at a huge risk of having to pay for this problem to go away. All of this because he decided to display his immense manhood to his wife and kids.

 

Anyone with half a brain knows this story is a no-brainer and that the RISKS are there. You however, have no recourse but to go back to the precious laws which you only two posts ago DENOUNCED as "geographical accident". i.e. you are simply trolling. Ill have no more to discuss with you in LS.

 

 

 

"Just cause" requirements don't necessarily mean relationships between employee and employer will get you in trouble with the law.

Your arguments are actually quote thin.

[fellini]

Using the destruction of millions of Jews (chrisitian or otherwise, disabled people jewish, christian or otherwise, gypsies, jews or otherwise) in an argument over infidelity demonstrates an enormous disrespect for the atrocity and the victims and families. Maybe you should consider taking some response-ability and find more adequate analogies.

 

 

This is really funny! Why would you be so confrontational? Many people here agree to disagree with you.

I never compared your arguments with Hitler's Germany, I just used that example to explain you how something doesn't need to be illegal to be wrong :eek:

By the way, get your facts right, in Germany "4" Million of people were "killed with gas" to dead for their "ethnicity" (christian Jewish were also gassed) and unfortunately "it was" completely legal as Hitler was voted by the Germans and he legislated to make all his crimes legal. (which is exactly my point).

 

The issue is not the reaction of the husband, it is OP's affair to begin with, if there would have not been affair then there would not be a problem.

 

You saying that the issue is how the husband is handling things is like saying that a arsonist who burned a house is not the guilty one but the firemen who did not use the right tools to put out the fire... ridiculous!

 

Martin Luther King: ?Everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was Legal? | A Lightning War for Liberty

[veritas lux mea]

I find it pathetic when someone uses religeon as an excuse not to divorce but yet fornication is the alternative. Seriously, mixed messages.

 

If you want to give him more time OP, do so. But realize that he has very poor coping skills. They are shining through. Gettig angry, not wanting to touch you is normal. Banging his employee is not acceptable. Sorry, if infidelity is wron and he won't divorce you then he should be keeping it in his pants and not dragging yet another person in to it.

 

But this is your fault. You didn't force his penis elsewhere, he still made his own choice but your thoughtlessness started this. I know about cake eating. I was one but I couldn't last that long in the double life. The fact you did is not helping.

 

Correct your children when they flip you off. Don't tolerate it. Lettin them walk all over you is not goin to win them back. Being loving but not a doormat will have a better chance at that. But it won't happen over night.

 

I had one concern and that is how long exactly since DDay? It seems to me your H found an affair partner close to him really quickly. There are sadly people who have cheated themselves and yet blow up when the other person cheats. I have even heard stories of when one partner cheats and gets kicked out only to discover later the "BS" was cheating themselves. People can say this is his try to balance things but... It seems highly suspect if he really only just found out.

[italianjob]

Well now I see if I say the sky is blue you'll tell me that depends on if you're colour blind or not.

 

You are just arguing for the sake of not standing down.

 

I made my point: the husband, by having a sexual relationship WITH an EMPLOYEE is RISKING the financials of his company SHOULD he have to DISMISS her. The wife could EASILY win this argument in court. The husband cannot EASILY dismiss a broken down relationship with an employee and at the same time can HARDLY AFFORD to keep her on IF he decides to end it and she decides to stay. The company is at a huge risk of having to pay for this problem to go away. All of this because he decided to display his immense manhood to his wife and kids.

 

Anyone with half a brain knows this story is a no-brainer and that the RISKS are there. You however, have no recourse but to go back to the precious laws which you only two posts ago DENOUNCED as "geographical accident". i.e. you are simply trolling. Ill have no more to discuss with you in LS.

 

Actually, the "geographical accident" reference was made by another poster.

1. "Should" he have to dismiss her is not an existant condition at the moment.

2. In some countries it's quite easy for a worker to claim that a dismissal was related to discrimination for reasons not related to work issues. In others not so much because the "burden of proof" is on the worker and not on the employer. If such was the case she would have to demonstrate that the end of the relationship was indeed the cause of the dismissal.

3. You were the one writing in capital letters that the husband was breaking the law, but you actually don't know what you're talking about, and are now "downgrading" to "risk of losing large sums of money".

4. Starting to insult other posters shows how strong your argumentations are.

5. I'm ok with not discussing with you any further, I'm not really interested in that.

Edited April 1, 2014 by italianjob

[Man Mountain Makino]

Banging his employee is not acceptable.

Unless I missed something, all we know is that he is pursuing a romantic relationship with a woman. You don't know that they are having sex together. Presumptuous.

[bubbaganoosh]

Thank you all for your answers.

My husband and I had our first civilized conversation yesterday ever since I got outed, I don't think it was a nice conversation but it was civilized in the sense that we got to certain agreements. He doesn't want to have any contact with me at all at this moment, he doesn't want me to be physical with him at all, not only like in having sex but he doesn't want me to touch him in any way or even he doesn't want me to cook for him, he says he will bring the food from a restaurant at this moment anything coming from me is disgusting (his own words). He has been talking to the boys ever since Dday and he has been always very clear with them that the issue is between him and me and that they should not take part on it but he admits that his behavior at home does not add up with what he is telling them so he agreed to show some minimum respect when the children are around.

He says he doesn't want to divorce me but he doesn't want me as his wife either, he is not contemplating reconciliation because that is not an option for him as the only feeling I produce in him at this moment is repugnance but we are catholic and he doesn't believe in divorce either. We live in a small town (I live in Argentina) and there is only one school so unfortunately we can't change or children from school, my husband says he will be talking with the director to see when my son can be changed from the class where he has to face every day my ex AP to another class.

To answer some people question about how my son found out about my affair, there were already various rumors about me having an affair with the teacher (I didn't know that) and some other students have told my son so he followed me and saw me making out with the teacher in the car (Thanks God we were not having sex).

 

At this moment I am not willing to give up on my husband and children, I know I have destroyed everything I had and that I may need to work everything from zero but these three guys are the only thing I have in this world and I will fight for them till the end. Divorce it is definitely not an option from my side either as if I divorce him my children will choose for him and I will lose them for ever, only the thought of it destroys my soul.

I know I was being selfish but I was naive too, I thought I would not hurt anyone if they would not find out, it was never my intention to hurt them!

I offered my husband all the clarity and openness that he may need but he doesn't want to talk about my affair at all, he says he doesn't care anymore and that if I want I can go with whom ever I want but that I should never expect him back in my bed because only the thought was repulsive. He kept emphasizing how repulsive, repugnant and disgusting any physical contact with me is and the knowledge that he probably kissed me after I had been having sex with the OM. This thought never came to me when that happened but I can understand how he finds that disturbing.

 

Maybe you son should follow his dad when he's out with his mistress and making out.

 

If he's such a good Catholic, he's not doing a very good job at it and yes so am I a Catholic.

[troubadour]

What the OP did is wrong. But the teacher involved is single and frankly the boys will grow up, leave the school, and that's that.

 

What the BS did is actually longer lasting. He is screwing an employee. It's a FAMILY BUSINESS. We have a power abuse issue right there. We don't know if she is single herself, but have no reason not to believe it.

 

The father has demonstrated how unfit the mother is, but then turns around and is educating his children that it's A-OKAY to screw paid employees.

 

Neither of these two have chosen well, their ways to respond to internal issues, and neither of these two have shown their children how to behave like adults.

 

For me the father is the worst because he KNEW he was doing something BAD on top of something bad as a demonstration to his kids his power. And this is unacceptable because his intention is to ridicule, humiliate and destroy their mother, instead of keeping it between the two of them.

 

 

Fellini, you clearly don't know what you are talking about.

[veritas lux mea]

Unless I missed something, all we know is that he is pursuing a romantic relationship with a woman. You don't know that they are having sex together. Presumptuous.

 

Hardly, who is being silly now? The guy just found out his wife was having a two year affair and you think he is already persuing a romantic relationship? That is insane and hardly helpful to his family. Go ahead, defend the dude. As we all know the only people who get held accountable for their actions are the ones who cheated first. That whole "no excuse for cheating" and "no one forced you to have sex you made the choice on your own" obviously doesn't go both ways.

 

So if someone robs my house, i am okay to steal their car? If they kill my child I get to kill theirs? If they make up lies about me, I should do the same? But somehow in doing all that I am not lowering my morals and stooping to their level? I am still a good person because they did it first?

Edited April 1, 2014 by veritas lux mea

[GorillaTheater]

The OP screwed up in a massive and life-altering way, but even though I almost always give the BS a lot of slack for crazy behavior after finding out, are we really defending what the husband in this case is doing? F*cking seriously?

 

Not me. Artie's right. The only way to cut through this Gordian knot of a clusterf*ck is to seek divorce. The shock of that may or may not wake everybody up, but the current situation is intolerable. Time to throw a monkey wrench into it.

[italianjob]

Divorce is probably the only way out of this. I don't see much space for reconciliation in this mess.

The problem is both the OP and her H don't want to divorce for religious reasons.

Also, I think the OP said that she would have a hard time to make a living for herself if D was to happen.

[veritas lux mea]

Divorce is probably the only way out of this. I don't see much space for reconciliation in this mess.

The problem is both the OP and her H don't want to divorce for religious reasons.

Also, I think the OP said that she would have a hard time to make a living for herself if D was to happen.

 

It is sad which is why I wonder at the H already having a sidedish that fast. Religeon manipulated to the finest. He doesn't even want her to cook for him? Well if I were her and this goes on for months and nothing gives she should go get a job and start saving to be on her own. And stop all household duties. If your kids are big enough to treat her disrespectfuly and call her names and not obey her then they don't need her cleaning or cooking for them either.

[italianjob]

It is sad which is why I wonder at the H already having a sidedish that fast. Religeon manipulated to the finest. He doesn't even want her to cook for him? Well if I were her and this goes on for months and nothing gives she should go get a job and start saving to be on her own. And stop all household duties. If your kids are big enough to treat her disrespectfuly and call her names and not obey her then they don't need her cleaning or cooking for them either.

 

I don't know, from what she said she seems to subscribe to the views of her H in religious matters, and it looks like she has similar views of her own, so it sounds more like misinterpretation of Religion, rather than manipulation, but one of them should make up his/her mind and file, maybe reaching an amicable agreement that could support her economically.

[TiredFamilyGuy]

Seek divorce. Got to be prepared to lose it to have any chance to have it back.

 

Ask him, what he wants from now- this, or what? When kids are college age - what then? Can't see them hanging around. You are passively waiting for his hurt to subside maybe. I suspect it won't - you literally did the unforgivable and are dead to him.

[Man Mountain Makino]

Hardly, who is being silly now? The guy just found out his wife was having a two year affair and you think he is already persuing a romantic relationship? That is insane and hardly helpful to his family.

I'm just saying it's perfectly reasonable to conclude he has checked out of the marriage. He isn't sneaking around. He isn't lying to anyone.

 

I think it would be best if he formally ended the relationship before pursuing a romantic relationship with someone else. But he's taking the posture that his wife can take it or leave it. I wouldn't do the same, but it's not outrageous.

 

You don't know if he is having sex with this woman or not. That's still presumptuous.

 

And my name isn't Hardly.

[GorillaTheater]

I'm just saying it's perfectly reasonable to conclude he has checked out of the marriage. He isn't sneaking around. He isn't lying to anyone.

 

I think it would be best if he formally ended the relationship before pursuing a romantic relationship with someone else. But he's taking the posture that his wife can take it or leave it. I wouldn't do the same, but it's not outrageous.

 

You don't know if he is having sex with this woman or not. That's still presumptuous.

 

And my name isn't Hardly.

 

I'd go so far as to lay even odds that hubby had something brewing with this chick prior to dday, given the timeline.

 

It doesn't take the OP off the hook. All it means is that a f*cked up situation is all the more f*cked up.

 

A man's honor shouldn't go out the window just because his wife decided to chuck hers.

[veritas lux mea]

I'd go so far as to lay even odds that hubby had something brewing with this chick prior to dday, given the timeline.

 

It doesn't take the OP off the hook. All it means is that a f*cked up situation is all the more f*cked up.

 

A man's honor shouldn't go out the window just because his wife decided to chuck hers.

 

That is what I am feeling. I mean even if this was a purely emotional romance and he is wooing his employee (which seems far more presumtious and unrealistic. ) doing so is crazy and adding a whole lot of more crap. His son discovers his mothers A with his teacher. The father should be doing thins to help his teenagers through this. Not wasting energy trying to get some from his employee... Er umm I mean building a romantic relationship. This is dysfunction at its finest and no amount of betrayal justifies this man's actions. So that is why I think he may have had this honey all for a little longer than just DDay.

[Man Mountain Makino]

I'd go so far as to lay even odds that hubby had something brewing with this chick prior to dday, given the timeline.

 

It doesn't take the OP off the hook. All it means is that a f*cked up situation is all the more f*cked up.

 

A man's honor shouldn't go out the window just because his wife decided to chuck hers.

The point is, we just don't know his side. We know what she told us, that's it.

 

I don't see this as a case of a man acting dishonorably. He learned his wife had been dating a man for almost two years. At that point, he could reasonably conclude that he's through and has no interest or patience to do the heavy lifting to fix his marriage. I can't read his mind (nobody here can), but this course of action isn't outrageous or dishonorable. Why be loyal to a marriage that, for practical purposes, doesn't exist?

 

I'd personally prefer they'd split up before he cultivated another relationship. But not doing so in this case isn't dishonorable.

 

People pretending to know more details about this guy's story is just immature, in my book.

[livinginhell]

Thank you all again for all of your answers.

 

First I would like to say that the woman my husband is having an affair with (I don't know if they have sex or not but I am assuming they do) arrived to the town around 10 days before dday directly to work for us so I really doubt my husband had anything to do with her before dday.

I would also like to say that I understand how looking from the outside the best and more logic advise can be divorce but this is certainly not the case in my reality.

Lets assume that if I would file for divorce I would not lose my children, I know for sure that they would choose for their father and then I would not see them anymore but lets assume that they will miss me and finally we would be able to restore some kind of relationship. Lets assume that I get a good lawyer (almost impossible as all the ones around my town are in one or other way linked to my family in law) and I get the half of the assets (that means the half of the house and a quarter of the value of the company as half of the company is owned my my family in law). I have never studied or lived on my own, I am a pariah in my town and no one would give me a job at this moment and further more probably I would have to pay alimony to my husband since the children would stay with him.

I also do not have a family, my parents died when I was 19 and I have no siblings or any other family, till now my family in law was my family but also them have stopped the contact with me.

Anyway all of that matter almost nothing because if I lose my husband and children then I really don't care about anything anymore. My only hope is the knowledge of the love my husband always had for me, I am sure he still loves me and is the peer pressure and the expectations in the close environment in this town what makes him be something that he is not. We live in a small town and now we are the hot topic and till the moment that everyone forgets about this I can't not attempt to get to my husband heart, I hope that with time he will see how remorseful I am and understand that I love him as I ever loved him.

With my children I think I will begin to try to talk with my younger one, he was always very close to me and I think he is missing me but he doesn't want to have problems with his older brother. We will see how that goes.

[GorillaTheater]

Well, I guess the only card you have to play is time, but buckle up because you're going to be in for a hell of a ride.

 

And be prepared to be served with divorce papers. That would have been the appropriate response from your husband in the first place, in my opinion, and still may be in the works.

[KaliLove]

Thank you all again for all of your answers.

 

First I would like to say that the woman my husband is having an affair with (I don't know if they have sex or not but I am assuming they do) arrived to the town around 10 days before dday directly to work for us so I really doubt my husband had anything to do with her before dday.

I would also like to say that I understand how looking from the outside the best and more logic advise can be divorce but this is certainly not the case in my reality.

Lets assume that if I would file for divorce I would not lose my children, I know for sure that they would choose for their father and then I would not see them anymore but lets assume that they will miss me and finally we would be able to restore some kind of relationship. Lets assume that I get a good lawyer (almost impossible as all the ones around my town are in one or other way linked to my family in law) and I get the half of the assets (that means the half of the house and a quarter of the value of the company as half of the company is owned my my family in law). I have never studied or lived on my own, I am a pariah in my town and no one would give me a job at this moment and further more probably I would have to pay alimony to my husband since the children would stay with him.

I also do not have a family, my parents died when I was 19 and I have no siblings or any other family, till now my family in law was my family but also them have stopped the contact with me.

Anyway all of that matter almost nothing because if I lose my husband and children then I really don't care about anything anymore. My only hope is the knowledge of the love my husband always had for me, I am sure he still loves me and is the peer pressure and the expectations in the close environment in this town what makes him be something that he is not. We live in a small town and now we are the hot topic and till the moment that everyone forgets about this I can't not attempt to get to my husband heart, I hope that with time he will see how remorseful I am and understand that I love him as I ever loved him.

With my children I think I will begin to try to talk with my younger one, he was always very close to me and I think he is missing me but he doesn't want to have problems with his older brother. We will see how that goes.

 

Even if you lose your husband, please never, ever, ever give up on your children.

[lolablue17]

By his behavior Your Husband protects himself from being davastaed, destroyed, crashed. That's his only way to prevent or at least minimize the hurt is to take as much as control he can.

 

behaving apathy toward you, avoiding you, these are his tools to heal himself. I think you have a good chance that in a while (maybe a long while) things will be better with him slowly.

 

But dont wait too much with the kids thing. Demand him to take some action and rebuke them to stop avoiding you. they are minors. they have no skills or knowledge to know what is good for them.

 

ask them firmly and Unambiguously to try to restore what they had with you before all had happened. He shouldn't heal himself at their expense.

[italianjob]

Has your family considered a relocation? It would benefit you of course, but it would also be healthy for your husband and, most of all, for your kids. In your small town you're a pariah, but I bet your husband is reminded daily of his humiliation and his pain, and your kids are exposed to humiliation and shame with all the cruelty that teenagers can manage.

In this environment it's unavoidable that their tempers rise constantly and anger is stronger day by day.

A new town may allow you all a new beginning and could help everybody to put things in a less bitter perspective.

Is this even possible or the nature of your husband's business requires that he stays where you are now?

[aliveagain]

Two wrongs don't make a right. Having a revenge affair will do more harm in the long run. Perhaps you should discuss an open marriage if your both inclined on have sex with others. Please get counselling for your children, being humiliated at school will cause them untold life issues. Your husband needs to understand this too.

[italianjob]

Two wrongs don't make a right. Having a revenge affair will do more harm in the long run. Perhaps you should discuss an open marriage if your both inclined on have sex with others. Please get counselling for your children, being humiliated at school will cause them untold life issues. Your husband needs to understand this too.

 

I don't think an open marriage would do much good in this situation. They live in a small town in Argentina, and they are already the talk of the town now. They're not divorcing because of religious issues...

The damage for the kids would get even worse.