When did preferences become judgments?

[dragon_fly_7]

Lying is not respecting the game. When you respect the game you reap the rewards. When you disrespect it the game teaches you to respect it.

While lying isn't good when starting a relationship, this is what many women who don't even have too much of a high sexual number have encountered just for being honest:

 

Last year I rejected a girl because of her slutty past - Bodybuilding.com Forums

 

I know this site doesn't represent all the male population but there are many that still live in that mentality that being promiscuous is manly (gender basis) and don't realize that being promiscuous is someone's personal lifestyle (man or woman). And off course there are others like me who only like doing it in a long-term relationship, nothing outside that and expect the same in return.

 

Then this whole bragging, telling others how many sloots you banged and posting pictures of them to strangers online. I'm willing to bet those girls wouldn't like their pictures getting posted without their permission.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=150890533

But the typical selfish type that if he wants a relationship, expects a goody girl.

Edited April 11, 2014 by dragon_fly_7

[Quiet Storm]

While lying isn't good when starting a relationship, this is what many women who don't even have too much of a high sexual number have encountered just for being honest:

 

Last year I rejected a girl because of her slutty past - Bodybuilding.com Forums

 

I know this site doesn't represent all the male population but there are many that still live in that mentality that being promiscuous is manly (gender basis) and don't realize that being promiscuous is someone's personal lifestyle (man or woman). And off course there are others like me who only like doing it in a long-term relationship, nothing outside that and expect the same in return.

 

I agree that this is true, there are many guys that do judge a girl because of her past.

 

What I don't understand is this... if a man is going to judge, wouldn't the woman want to know it up front so she can weed him out? If a woman lies, she will never know if she has found a guy that truly accepts & loves her, or one that will judge her. Being honest is to her benefit. IMO,being honest & rejected is better than having a phony relationship with a judgmental person that would dump you if they knew the real you.

[atlg8r]

I agree that this is true, there are many guys that do judge a girl because of her past.

 

What I don't understand is this... if a man is going to judge, wouldn't the woman want to know it up front so she can weed him out? If a woman lies, she will never know if she has found a guy that truly accepts & loves her, or one that will judge her. Being honest is to her benefit. IMO,being honest & rejected is better than having a phony relationship with a judgmental person that would dump you if they knew the real you.

 

That's why I wouldn't continue seeing anyone who asked me for my "number". It would be like asking a guy his highest weight ever in his life, and if it was "fat" or "obese" being like "Welp, no, I can't see you anymore" even if he was in shape now. Stupid and arbitrary without context.

[contact1]

That's why I wouldn't continue seeing anyone who asked me for my "number". It would be like asking a guy his highest weight ever in his life, and if it was "fat" or "obese" being like "Welp, no, I can't see you anymore" even if he was in shape now. Stupid and arbitrary without context.

 

That's a really bad comparison.

 

A better one would be asking a guy "were you a drug user before" or "have you ever been in a violent encounter". These are things I am fairly sure most women would want to avoid, and if a man has this record and may not be doing it anymore, it would still raise a caution flag if you had found this out.

[joystickd]

Your OP was more stating you didn't want a woman with a high number of sexual partners. If you are honest and expect honesty in return, that is reasonable.

 

Reread! My OP was in general

[Revolver]

People have a right to have what ever preferences they want, people only get mad when someone states a preference which they can't measure up to and feel insecure...let's be real

 

Examples, girl says I only date men with college degrees men without degrees many times will get pissed off because they feel insecure.

[GoreSP]

That's a really bad comparison.

 

A better one would be asking a guy "were you a drug user before" or "have you ever been in a violent encounter". These are things I am fairly sure most women would want to avoid, and if a man has this record and may not be doing it anymore, it would still raise a caution flag if you had found this out.

 

Even worse comparison. Drugs and violence are generally accepted as 'bad behaviour' no matter the situation you're in.

Not sex

[eye of the storm]

I agree with atlg8r, wouldn't continue to date a man who asked for my number. I have had 2 men ask me, one was after we had been dating awhile and he was just being curious, I laughed and told him I couldn't remember any other men while I was with him, he never asked again. The second man asked me on our second date and was completely serious. I told him I would have to get back to him as I don't keep a running tally in my purse and he asked when I could give him a complete number. I waved the waiter over told him to box my food and call me a cab. The second guy was more interested in my number than he was in me. I prefer to not date someone like that.

[dragon_fly_7]

I agree with atlg8r, wouldn't continue to date a man who asked for my number. I have had 2 men ask me, one was after we had been dating awhile and he was just being curious, I laughed and told him I couldn't remember any other men while I was with him, he never asked again. The second man asked me on our second date and was completely serious. I told him I would have to get back to him as I don't keep a running tally in my purse and he asked when I could give him a complete number. I waved the waiter over told him to box my food and call me a cab. The second guy was more interested in my number than he was in me. I prefer to not date someone like that.

Good grief on the second date and he kept repeating the question!!!!

 

Even as a very low numbered woman, I would leave too. More than likely they are asking to judge if given an answer and I'm willing to bet it's coming from a high numbered man (shamer) himself. Most of the times, it's not because they're sexually conservative themselves but because they operate under an ''I'm only concern about your number, not mine''.

 

I would seriously turn the question around if I were asked and then walk away.

Edited April 12, 2014 by dragon_fly_7

[contact1]

Even worse comparison. Drugs and violence are generally accepted as 'bad behaviour' no matter the situation you're in.

Not sex

 

Maybe not to you, but to a lot of guy, it is a red flag to them, which you just helped proved my point. To a woman, the past behaviors I listed are huge red flags, even if the person is fully recovered from it, because there is still that lingering feeling of what if it happens again.

 

Guys that have issues with woman who have a very extensive sexual history have the same though process. They consider it 'bad behavior' , as you so put it, even if it is no longer apart of a woman's current situation.

[panoramicview]

Maybe not to you, but to a lot of guy, it is a red flag to them, which you just helped proved my point. To a woman, the past behaviors I listed are huge red flags, even if the person is fully recovered from it, because there is still that lingering feeling of what if it happens again.

 

Guys that have issues with woman who have a very extensive sexual history have the same though process. They consider it 'bad behavior' , as you so put it, even if it is no longer apart of a woman's current situation.

 

Your point would be all well and good if you didn't take into the account that these men more than likely plan to have sex themselves. I'd be a hypocrite if I refused to date someone based on the fact that they used drugs in the past, yet decided to try my hand at some ecstasy a month later.

 

If their view on a woman having had a sexual past is able to be compared to that of having a violent past or drug usage, it would suggest they view the act of sex or women having sex as an unacceptable act...so why would they then find it acceptable for their future partner to have sex with them?

 

How many of these same men would date a woman long term if she was not willing to have sex based on these morals they seem to hold so dearly? Unless they were saving themselves for marriage, I'm willing to bet very few of them would.

[RedRobin]

I've had a guy or two ask me my number... I've always declined. Even though mine is low and I'm relationship oriented.

 

 

I've never asked either. People tell you who they are and how they conduct their lives easily enough. It is also pretty easy to observe if you pay attention.

 

 

Problem is, these same guys who are asking for a 'number' and are concerned about a woman's history are often the same guys trying to have sex ASAP and make me do the work of relationship timing. Can't have it both ways guys.

 

 

If they would have enough patience to wait even a little while, they would observe whatever they need to observe. So would the woman most of the time. If a guy tries to push and 'slut' test me, guess what?? I've learned what I need to learn about him too. And it isn't good. You roll the dice, you take your chances, guys.

 

 

Don't have sex until you have some idea of their viewpoint on it... and you make sure you are both on the same page. Could be on the first date... could be the 100th. Be a grownup and have a conversation. It won't kill you.

 

 

That's my advice. And be your authentic self all of the time... to the best of your ability.

[Revolver]

There are girls who are basically midgets who wont date men who are under 6"2, and women who make 30K who won't date men who aren't in the 6 figure range but no one calls them hypocrites... Women basically say "well get over it"

 

 

And even if they are hypocrites they have a right to their preferences

[Woggle]

There are girls who are basically midgets who wont date men who are under 6"2, and women who make 30K who won't date men who aren't in the 6 figure range but no one calls them hypocrites... Women basically say "well get over it"

 

 

And even if they are hypocrites they have a right to their preferences

 

I fully agree. I don't care about numbers but men have the right to our preferences and standards.

[johan]

There are girls who are basically midgets who wont date men who are under 6"2, and women who make 30K who won't date men who aren't in the 6 figure range but no one calls them hypocrites... Women basically say "well get over it"

 

 

And even if they are hypocrites they have a right to their preferences

 

There are women who date poor guys with crappy cars who are short, bald and ugly. There are poor, short, bald, ugly guys with crappy cars who only want to date hot women. Everyone is entitled to their preferences. It seems like we should all "get over it".

 

Behind all this I always detect a bit of "the hot chicks I want to date don't make it easy for me and maybe don't prefer me, and that's wrong because I'm great." It's wrong for a hot girl to have preferences, but you would never go near her short, fat friend.

[Woggle]

There are women who date poor guys with crappy cars who are short, bald and ugly. There are poor, short, bald, ugly guys with crappy cars who only want to date hot women. Everyone is entitled to their preferences. It seems like we should all "get over it".

 

Behind all this I always detect a bit of "the hot chicks I want to date don't make it easy for me and maybe don't prefer me, and that's wrong because I'm great." It's wrong for a hot girl to have preferences, but you would never go near her short, fat friend.

 

Of course there are women who are attracted to all types but they will defend to the death their right to have standards even if they are hypocritical so why are men not allowed to have standards?

[carhill]

The preference becomes a judgment when the short, fat, old, bald guy states the taller, slimmer, younger, long-haired ladies are 'wrong' for not wanting to date him. He's judged them and assigned a negative tone to that judgment.

 

Judgments are pretty easy to suss out..... 'you're crazy', 'you're stupid', 'you're wrong', 'you're a loser', etc, etc. Of course, one can judge in a positive way too....'you're a really smart person for preferring not to date a short, fat, old, bald guy; you can do much better than that!' Of course, the short, fat, old, bald guy just got judged too!

[contact1]

Your point would be all well and good if you didn't take into the account that these men more than likely plan to have sex themselves. I'd be a hypocrite if I refused to date someone based on the fact that they used drugs in the past, yet decided to try my hand at some ecstasy a month later.

 

If their view on a woman having had a sexual past is able to be compared to that of having a violent past or drug usage, it would suggest they view the act of sex or women having sex as an unacceptable act...so why would they then find it acceptable for their future partner to have sex with them?

 

How many of these same men would date a woman long term if she was not willing to have sex based on these morals they seem to hold so dearly? Unless they were saving themselves for marriage, I'm willing to bet very few of them would.

 

Well no one here ever said it was fair and I certainly never said it was, it was a comparison of how men view females with an extensive history, as a huge negative. And again this is some men, not all of them. It is the same for women who have a higher expectation of income, height, etc when compared to themselves, they could even have no job and yet expect their male counterpart to make a 6 figure income. That is their preference and their view, and that's life, no one ever said it was going to be fair, there will always be differences in what we want, our expectations, and standards of the other gender we look at. I love a woman that cooks, but I can't cook for squat, should we not be together due me not wanting to have to cook, while looking for it in what I want as a partner? Or how about the fact that I love to skydive, but the person I am with is terrified by it, should that write as off in being in a relationship?

 

Well the same applies to men who want a girl that doesn't have an extensive history, despite their own history, as they don't want to be another girl's number. Not fair? Tough, that's life and how it is.

 

And before you go into how wrong it is for me to have these view, I don't, I could care less what type of history a female has, I never ask and don't care to really know, but I get why some men do.

[johan]

Of course there are women who are attracted to all types but they will defend to the death their right to have standards even if they are hypocritical so why are men not allowed to have standards?

 

Who said men aren't allowed to have standards? I've never heard of such a thing. And who said men aren't also hypocritical? Is hypocrisy bad only when it comes from hot women? Who thinks they should have the top-of-the line model when they themselves aren't showroom ready? In my experience, anyone too ready to sling around the hypocrisy label isn't spending enough time looking in the mirror. Also I've often noted that people who spend a lot of time calling attention to their own hardships and disadvantages in life are pathetic by choice. So why listen to them?

 

No one ever said any man had to stay down and feel sorry for himself. I've never once seen anyone get anything fixed for them by whining about it. When things get better for them they just whine about something else.

[Revolver]

There are women who date poor guys with crappy cars who are short, bald and ugly. There are poor, short, bald, ugly guys with crappy cars who only want to date hot women. Everyone is entitled to their preferences. It seems like we should all "get over it".

 

Behind all this I always detect a bit of "the hot chicks I want to date don't make it easy for me and maybe don't prefer me, and that's wrong because I'm great." It's wrong for a hot girl to have preferences, but you would never go near her short, fat friend.

 

I don't get what you're saying here because I've always advocated for everyone having the right to their preferences.

[Anela]

There are girls who are basically midgets who wont date men who are under 6"2, and women who make 30K who won't date men who aren't in the 6 figure range but no one calls them hypocrites... Women basically say "well get over it"

 

 

And even if they are hypocrites they have a right to their preferences

 

I've seen women try to give advice to those only wanting the hot, most desirable women - I've tried to help at times.

 

We get to hear how unacceptable we are if we fit certain images, or how we never have a problem with dating and are liars, if we fit another image. We're repeatedly told we should lower our own standards, if we didn't find some poor schmuck (not our words) to put rings on our fingers, and promise to be used and abused by us for the rest of our lives, because we all have princess attitudes/entitlement issues, and aren't capable of actually loving a man. We should also understand that, over a certain age, we just won't be wanted, so we are supposed to cry as we cuddle with our cats, and knit clothing out of the fur they've shed, or find ourselves an old man and sit there seething over the younger women stealing all of you from us. (ha! that last thought just cracked me up, because it would never happen.)

 

There are the decent guys who say otherwise, but there seem to be fewer of them around these days.

[ThaWholigan]

I don't get what you're saying here because I've always advocated for everyone having the right to their preferences.

Yeah, but you also missed the point, like Joystick did.

 

There's a point where people project their preferences onto their environment where it strays beyond the line of just being what that person prefers, and becomes a judgmental and vocal critique of somebody else's preferences that is either ignorant or designed to offend and shame.

[joystickd]

Yeah, but you also missed the point, like Joystick did.

 

There's a point where people project their preferences onto their environment where it strays beyond the line of just being what that person prefers, and becomes a judgmental and vocal critique of somebody else's preferences that is either ignorant or designed to offend and shame.

We all judge. On this thread someone is not experienced because they ask a woman for her number. We all have opinions on attributes we look for in dating. Funny thing is men get told to suck it up and move on if a woman "judged" us. When the situation is reversed it's shaming. If a man has an opinion that is more male centric he is a misogynist (women on here misuse the word so much) or he is insecure. We all have opinions and beliefs based on something in reality we have seen in our lives. Hell I have been called everything. Sh*t I shake it off and move on. That is what we all need to do. Some opinion or "judgements" as you women would call it shouldn't even be considered important if you look at the person giving them.

 

Hell I have never seen a guy complain about women player shaming him. I have seen women complain about men whining on here when the reality is they are frustrated and have no true outlet to vent their frustrations and let's be real here 95% or more of you women would never say that sh*t to a man in real life. The net gives people courage to say whatever because of the anonymity.

[atlg8r]

We all judge. On this thread someone is not experienced because they ask a woman for her number. We all have opinions on attributes we look for in dating. Funny thing is men get told to suck it up and move on if a woman "judged" us. When the situation is reversed it's shaming. If a man has an opinion that is more male centric he is a misogynist (women on here misuse the word so much) or he is insecure. We all have opinions and beliefs based on something in reality we have seen in our lives. Hell I have been called everything. Sh*t I shake it off and move on. That is what we all need to do. Some opinion or "judgements" as you women would call it shouldn't even be considered important if you look at the person giving them.

 

Hell I have never seen a guy complain about women player shaming him. I have seen women complain about men whining on here when the reality is they are frustrated and have no true outlet to vent their frustrations and let's be real here 95% or more of you women would never say that sh*t to a man in real life. The net gives people courage to say whatever because of the anonymity.

 

I reiterate: if you are a virgin waiting to have sex for marriage, then you still don't need a number. You just need to know if the girl is a virgin who holds that same value.

 

The "number" has nothing to do with it. If you had sex once, you can get an STD just the same as a girl or guy who slept with 100 people. You're not "more" of a virgin if you only slept with one guy compared to 15. I just never see a reason to ask "How many people - specifically - have you slept with?" for a girl or a guy.

 

All I need to know is 1) are you healthy (and it's not unreasonable in this day to request STD testing of your partner) and 2) are you loyal and faithful now?

[joystickd]

I reiterate: if you are a virgin waiting to have sex for marriage, then you still don't need a number. You just need to know if the girl is a virgin who holds that same value.

 

The "number" has nothing to do with it. If you had sex once, you can get an STD just the same as a girl or guy who slept with 100 people. You're not "more" of a virgin if you only slept with one guy compared to 15. I just never see a reason to ask "How many people - specifically - have you slept with?" for a girl or a guy.

 

All I need to know is 1) are you healthy (and it's not unreasonable in this day to request STD testing of your partner) and 2) are you loyal and faithful now?

This whole thread has been about preferences not worrying about revealing your sexual number. Hell all you got to say if you were promiscuous was that you were that is it. We all have things we see that would be compatible with us in a potential partner and we all have the right to have those preferences. If you get more than that then move on. You should be bless they revealed it now than later and they are out of your life.

 

Hell look at it short people well some get mad because they are "judged" for being short, fat people are mad for being "judged", age is an issue that is "judged", etc. These people all find someone that will accept them and love them. What makes sexual history so different? Why even get bent out of shape about the issue when there are people out there that will love and accept you flaws and all? It's takes a few people to cause you women to get on here and hit a vagina monologue because you want to be seen for the person you are now. Well the past events lead up to being the person you are now and to some people that matters. You sound just as bad as the "nice" guys. You all want men to go against their preferences when their are men that it doesn't matter either way but you are too damn lazy to put in the work to get them:sick: