When did preferences become judgments?

[Quiet Storm]

I reiterate: if you are a virgin waiting to have sex for marriage, then you still don't need a number. You just need to know if the girl is a virgin who holds that same value.

 

The "number" has nothing to do with it. If you had sex once, you can get an STD just the same as a girl or guy who slept with 100 people. You're not "more" of a virgin if you only slept with one guy compared to 15. I just never see a reason to ask "How many people - specifically - have you slept with?" for a girl or a guy.

 

All I need to know is 1) are you healthy (and it's not unreasonable in this day to request STD testing of your partner) and 2) are you loyal and faithful now?

 

Thats what YOU need to know. You don't get to pick what other people need to know about. You can choose not to share that info, though. And they can decide if they are OK with not knowing it, just like you can decide if you want to be with someone who feels "numbers" are important.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Quiet Storm

[Zeroes]

Simply stating a preference is not judgemental. Slating people who don't fit that preference is.

 

For example, if a man says

 

"I like slim/petite women who like keep fit" - That's a preference, not rude, and unlikely to provoke offence or outrage.

 

But if he says "I hate fat ugly chicks" - is a judgement.

 

Or another example, "I want women who have only had sex in serious relationships with a small number of men/no men" is a preference, but saying "I don't want whores and sluts" is a judgement, because you're making negative judgements on women who have had X number of sexual partners.

 

When I was on OL/D it ued to put me off when men would message me, and then when I'd glimpse through their profile, I'd see they've expressed their preferences in a vitriolic way, e.g. "Don't bother messaging me if you're a fattie", "no slags" - not because I'm fat or promiscuous (and I'm not either) but because it is telling of what their personality is like.

 

Oh and those who hold the opposite sex to a standard they themselves cannot match are not really "judgemental", as everyone is entitled to their preferences, but they are hypocrites/deluded..... e.g. a fat, balding, older dude who only wants a young slim beauty, I don't really care, until they start whining and casting aspersions on the opposite sex, like accusations of how "shallow" women are (and I have seen this a painful lot of times).

Edited April 15, 2014 by Zeroes

[atlg8r]

Thats what YOU need to know. You don't get to pick what other people need to know about. You can choose not to share that info, though. And they can decide if they are OK with not knowing it, just like you can decide if you want to be with someone who feels "numbers" are important.

 

Then, please, by all means, tell me a logical reason someone needs to know your "number". I'll wait.

 

This whole thread has been about preferences not worrying about revealing your sexual number. Hell all you got to say if you were promiscuous was that you were that is it. We all have things we see that would be compatible with us in a potential partner and we all have the right to have those preferences. If you get more than that then move on. You should be bless they revealed it now than later and they are out of your life.

 

Hell look at it short people well some get mad because they are "judged" for being short, fat people are mad for being "judged", age is an issue that is "judged", etc. These people all find someone that will accept them and love them. What makes sexual history so different? Why even get bent out of shape about the issue when there are people out there that will love and accept you flaws and all? It's takes a few people to cause you women to get on here and hit a vagina monologue because you want to be seen for the person you are now. Well the past events lead up to being the person you are now and to some people that matters. You sound just as bad as the "nice" guys. You all want men to go against their preferences when their are men that it doesn't matter either way but you are too damn lazy to put in the work to get them:sick:

 

The OP got stuck on sexual history and numbers as one example of a "preference" which many of the replies say is actually a judgment. One cannot change his height or eye color (naturally anyway). So yeah, if you're a shorter man who prefers a woman who is shorter than him, that's a preference. But to judge someone for past decisions, when I guarantee we have all made past decisions that suck in one way or another, is a bad move.

 

I don't need to search anymore. I am marrying a man next month who is by far the best man I've ever known. Neither of us cared about our "number". In fact, it never even occurred to me to ask him, and he's never asked me. He's not so insecure that he needs to know exactly how many people I've slept with...my opinion still remains that men who "need" to know that number are immature little boys who don't want to feel inferior to a woman's previous partners or psycho-possessive creeps who need to be the "only" man a woman has ever had.

[Revolver]

Yeah, but you also missed the point, like Joystick did.

 

There's a point where people project their preferences onto their environment where it strays beyond the line of just being what that person prefers, and becomes a judgmental and vocal critique of somebody else's preferences that is either ignorant or designed to offend and shame.

 

My only problem is when people try to force their preferences on other people and shame them. If you don't care for something that's fine, but don't tell me I'm wrong to my preference.

 

Example, a guy says he doesn't care if a girl has a bachelors or not,that's great but don't tell me I have to not care as well

 

Lol heck my cousin wouldn't date a guy who absolutely didnt love dogs. I think shes crazy but that's her preference

[dragon_fly_7]

My only problem is when people try to force their preferences on other people and shame them. If you don't care for something that's fine, but don't tell me I'm wrong to my preference.

 

Example, a guy says he doesn't care if a girl has a bachelors or not,that's great but don't tell me I have to not care as well

 

Lol heck my cousin wouldn't date a guy who absolutely didnt love dogs. I think shes crazy but that's her preference

That's exactly what some men try to do with their ''You can't change a ho into housewife'' phrase and expect all the other men to follow it or else they get shamed for having a gf that had a past. By doing that, aren't those men forcing their preferences on others??

 

I feel that the very judgmental ones (the extreme case being a virgin chaser) that are strongly into that phrase are almost always the ones with a high number themselves. I've noticed once a low-numbered male poster (out of choice in his case) elsewhere and even his tone of voice was different when stating his preference.

Edited April 15, 2014 by dragon_fly_7

[atlg8r]

My only problem is when people try to force their preferences on other people and shame them. If you don't care for something that's fine, but don't tell me I'm wrong to my preference.

 

Example, a guy says he doesn't care if a girl has a bachelors or not,that's great but don't tell me I have to not care as well

 

Lol heck my cousin wouldn't date a guy who absolutely didnt love dogs. I think shes crazy but that's her preference

 

A love of dogs may be necessary for compatibility. If she loves dogs and even owns one (or several), a man who doesn't love dogs won't work. He wouldn't want her dogs around. He wouldn't want to adopt more in the future.

 

There is no logical reason that a specific number threshold should matter. If one desires a monogamous relationship, he needs only know that his partner is going to also respect monogamy. Conversely, if a man wants an "open relationship", a woman who wants only one partner will not be compatible.

 

My issue is that no one can tell me a logical reason why the number itself is important. If you're concerned about STDs, get tested and request your partner to do so.

[GoreSP]

A love of dogs may be necessary for compatibility. If she loves dogs and even owns one (or several), a man who doesn't love dogs won't work. He wouldn't want her dogs around. He wouldn't want to adopt more in the future.

 

There is no logical reason that a specific number threshold should matter. If one desires a monogamous relationship, he needs only know that his partner is going to also respect monogamy. Conversely, if a man wants an "open relationship", a woman who wants only one partner will not be compatible.

 

My issue is that no one can tell me a logical reason why the number itself is important. If you're concerned about STDs, get tested and request your partner to do so.

 

It is mine too. Unfortunately, I've learned the only response we get it 'boohoo you're trying to force your beliefs on me boohoo I have rights to my preferences'

So I sort of gave up.

 

lol

[atlg8r]

It is mine too. Unfortunately, I've learned the only response we get it 'boohoo you're trying to force your beliefs on me boohoo I have rights to my preferences'

So I sort of gave up.

 

lol

 

I just feel incredibly lucky and grateful that the man I'm marrying seems to be one of the few with an actual brain in the US. :lmao:

 

I even concede the "I don't date fat chicks" preference. If you're unattracted to someone, you just aren't attracted to them. But the number thing is ridiculous.

[Revolver]

That's exactly what some men try to do with their ''You can't change a ho into housewife'' phrase and expect all the other men to follow it or else they get shamed for having a gf that had a past. By doing that, aren't those men forcing their preferences on others??

 

I feel that the very judgmental ones (the extreme case being a virgin chaser) that are strongly into that phrase are almost always the ones with a high number themselves. I've noticed once a low-numbered male poster (out of choice in his case) elsewhere and even his tone of voice was different when stating his preference.

 

And those guys are wrong for that, it's very simple.

 

There was this white girl I knew in college that people tried to call a racist because she didnt date black guys. Guess who had the biggest problem with her preference....? Black guys who were insecure or angry when she said no thanks to their advances

[Quiet Storm]

Then, please, by all means, tell me a logical reason someone needs to know your "number". I'll wait.

 

You are right, I can't really think of a logical reason. But attraction is not logical. At all.

 

We can logically know something, but that doesn't necessarily change our emotional reaction to it.

 

You can see this is true by the number of guys that come on LS posting "I know I shouldn't feel this way, but I hate my GF's past. I wish she hadn't been with so many guys".

 

These guys will say "I love her. I know that it's wrong for me to feel this way. What do I do to get over it? I want to be with her, but I just can't get over the way it makes me feel".

 

Then he will get all sorts of responses calling the guy insecure and judgmental, but most aren't helpful because attraction IS NOT logical. It is emotional, primal, instinctual. Most people, unless they are extraordinarily self aware and introspective, will not be able to intellectually talk themselves out of having those feelings. They can force themselves not to act on those feelings, but the underlying feelings of distaste will still be there. Plus, what woman wants to be with a guy that is constantly pushing down judgmental thoughts about her? No thanks. It seems that some women want all men to NEVER have these thoughts or judgments, and that's just not realistic.

 

We can make a thousand posts telling these guys they are judgmental, illogical, hypocritical and insecure. We can make another thousand posts telling guys how promiscuous girls are not more likely to cheat, linking studies, etc. We can remind men about the availability of STD tests. We can tell men they are losing out on some great women (they are).

 

But- none of that is going to change the visceral, emotional reaction that these guys feel IF sexual history matters to them.

 

Think of it like a phobia. If a person is afraid of spiders, you can tell them all day... It's just a little bug. He's more scared of you than you are of him. You are a giant compared to that spider. Spiders are great, they kill other bugs! They make beautiful webs! You are being ridiculous to be so afraid of spiders!

 

But all of that logic will not change the emotional reaction they feel when they see a spider. This is because it's just not logical or intellectual. CBT therapy is need to change those thought patterns and reactions. You can't just talk them out of feeling that way.

[Iguanna]

Quiet Storm I just adore you. I can't believe you are like 5 years older than me and you are so wise.

[joystickd]

A love of dogs may be necessary for compatibility. If she loves dogs and even owns one (or several), a man who doesn't love dogs won't work. He wouldn't want her dogs around. He wouldn't want to adopt more in the future.

 

There is no logical reason that a specific number threshold should matter. If one desires a monogamous relationship, he needs only know that his partner is going to also respect monogamy. Conversely, if a man wants an "open relationship", a woman who wants only one partner will not be compatible.

 

My issue is that no one can tell me a logical reason why the number itself is important. If you're concerned about STDs, get tested and request your partner to do so.

I will have to agree with Quiet Storm on this one, but the talk of high number men wanting low number women is no different than anyone that doesn't want anyone like them. Do players want to be in a relationship with someone like them? There are lots of people that don't want to date people like them. Then also with men the opposite sex is either seen as relationship material and someone just to have sex with. We all categorize just like women see friend zone or relationship material. Expectations are different for a woman to have a casual fling with and women to have a relationship with. I bet most of the guys that ask for a number or what to know if a woman has been promiscuous use that as criteria as relationship material, but if it was a casual fling that fact wouldn't matter.

 

It has some basis in reality every man has heard about the promiscuous woman that someone has been in a relationship with and cheated. It's like the relationship horror story. Anybody can cheat. Then it matters also because you don't want to be out and have an ********* say "Yeah I banged your girl" or even "We ran a train on your girl". I know some of you women are not in to talking about that but it's better to be honest, get it out of the way and deal with the consequences. If he don't want you for that then he isn't worth the hassle. I had an experience once I was dating someone and found out she was a prostitute. She came across as a nice wholesome woman. She seemed like someone I could be with, but the image she was portraying was really her. She solicited a guy I knew and he told one of my friends. He basically said "That girl he is dating is a whore and she offered me a good time. I'm not paying for that sh*t because I'm gonna get it for free." Then after that she was in the newspaper arrested for prostitution. Yeah her pic was in there and everything.

 

After that I became big on honesty. This was about preferences not sexual number. If you got bent out of shape about sexual number because that is an issue you all have not this thread. Honesty matters and if you omit something out of fear then my thoughts are what else will you lie about. I'm honest about everything in my life to every woman I talk to and I expect the same in return. It a bad foundation to a relationship when you have to omit things and lie. The situation will be a whole lot worse when the info about you comes out from someone else than from you.

 

Plus love is acceptance. Why not be honest and if they don't accept you let that prove that he isn't worthy of being in a relationship with you and eventually loving him?

[joystickd]

And those guys are wrong for that, it's very simple.

 

There was this white girl I knew in college that people tried to call a racist because she didnt date black guys. Guess who had the biggest problem with her preference....? Black guys who were insecure or angry when she said no thanks to their advances

This proves my point lol. Preference are cool until you are the receiving end of a rejection because of a preference. It's not insecurity. It's the fact you got turned down. Let a man turn a woman down because of a preference and see the reaction

[Woggle]

Numbers mean nothing whatsoever. It's all about attitude and how a person approaches relationships. If a woman has a history of treating relationships as disposable then it's only natural I wonder if she will do the same with me. I would say the same about a man. If a woman has high numbers but has demonstrated she is capable of having a healthy and drama free monogamous relationship without doing something to mess it up then I say she is a good catch. I would date her over a woman who has a history of cheating or a history of chasing drama and unavailable men. Those are the ones men need to look out for.

[GoreSP]

And those guys are wrong for that, it's very simple.

 

There was this white girl I knew in college that people tried to call a racist because she didnt date black guys. Guess who had the biggest problem with her preference....? Black guys who were insecure or angry when she said no thanks to their advances

 

Well...why wouldn't she date a black guys?

[Woggle]

Well...why wouldn't she date a black guys?

 

It doesn't matter. It's her life and she can choose who she wants to date. I once had a crush on a black woman who I actually developed a pretty good friendship with but she only dated within her race. That is her right. I have no problem at all with interracial dating or marriage but people have their preferences.

[GoreSP]

It doesn't matter. It's her life and she can choose who she wants to date. I once had a crush on a black woman who I actually developed a pretty good friendship with but she only dated within her race. That is her right. I have no problem at all with interracial dating or marriage but people have their preferences.

 

Oh, it is her right to 'date within her race' but face it: if you don't want to date someone because he/she is of a different race, it is kind of racist...

 

That's what some of us are trying to explain. Everyone has their rights to their preference but you should accept the fact that some preferences exist because of judgement.

[somedude81]

if you don't want to date someone because he/she is of a different race, it is kind of racist....

And there we have it ladies and gentlemen, the perfect example of a preference being turned into a judgement.

[Candy_Pants]

Oh, it is her right to 'date within her race' but face it: if you don't want to date someone because he/she is of a different race, it is kind of racist...

 

I always say "I'm not racist, but my vagina is"!!

 

It's okay that people are into certain races or ethnic groups. I like Asian men. Big tall ones who are well endowed. Do you have ANY idea how difficult that is to find?!?

[joystickd]

Oh, it is her right to 'date within her race' but face it: if you don't want to date someone because he/she is of a different race, it is kind of racist...

 

That's what some of us are trying to explain. Everyone has their rights to their preference but you should accept the fact that some preferences exist because of judgement.

Funny a person that gets bent out of shape about slut shaming is race shaming. It's their choice to stay within their race. I'm Black and I date outside my race, but I don't get bothered by the fact someone says they don't date Black men. If you have preferences then you have to accept the fact that one day you get turned down because of someone's preferences. It's life we all like and are attracted to different things

[GoreSP]

well it looks like people didn't get it the first time sooo here it goes again:

 

Everyone has their rights to their preference but you should accept the fact that some preferences exist because of judgement.

[ASG]

Oh, it is her right to 'date within her race' but face it: if you don't want to date someone because he/she is of a different race, it is kind of racist...

 

That's what some of us are trying to explain. Everyone has their rights to their preference but you should accept the fact that some preferences exist because of judgement.

 

To be honest, I've never date anyone who wasn't white (I'm white as well). why? Because I'm simply not attracted to people of other races.

 

When I say I'm not attracted, I mean in general. Sure, I've found a couple of black/asian/hispanic dudes attractive, and if the opportunity had arisen, I would have dated them. But *usually*, I don't.

 

This is a preference. Not a judgement, and has nothing to do with their race. More their features. That is also not to say that someone I don't find attractive at first can't win me over. My ex did that. He was morbidly obese! I wasn't attracted at first, at all! And then I was!

 

My issue with the sexual past thing is that it is mostly judgement.

Preference would be if you, a relationship minded person, would not want to have a relationship with someone who doesn't put that much stock on sex, and as such, has casual sex.

 

But a 30 something year old relationship minded woman that has never had casual sex may have slept with 10 people or so, which, from what I've read here on LS, is fairly high for a lot of people. Would that put her on the "not fit for a relationship" pile?

[joystickd]

well it looks like people didn't get it the first time sooo here it goes again:

 

Everyone has their rights to their preference but you should accept the fact that some preferences exist because of judgement.

Hey you said they were racist. You judged.

Are you race shaming?

[joystickd]

 

But a 30 something year old relationship minded woman that has never had casual sex may have slept with 10 people or so, which, from what I've read here on LS, is fairly high for a lot of people. Would that put her on the "not fit for a relationship" pile?

It depends on the person. If a man doesn't have high numbers then yes but a man that is realistic then its ok. I think the numbers thing is more about casual sex than short term or long term monogamous sex. No man wants to be in a relationship with a woman with a free spirited approach to sex. Casually they do but relationship wise no.

 

Its funny how my thread took a turn to focus on sexual number when it was about preferences.

[GoreSP]

To be honest, I've never date anyone who wasn't white (I'm white as well). why? Because I'm simply not attracted to people of other races.

 

When I say I'm not attracted, I mean in general. Sure, I've found a couple of black/asian/hispanic dudes attractive, and if the opportunity had arisen, I would have dated them. But *usually*, I don't.

 

This is a preference. Not a judgement, and has nothing to do with their race. More their features. That is also not to say that someone I don't find attractive at first can't win me over. My ex did that. He was morbidly obese! I wasn't attracted at first, at all! And then I was!

 

My issue with the sexual past thing is that it is mostly judgement.

Preference would be if you, a relationship minded person, would not want to have a relationship with someone who doesn't put that much stock on sex, and as such, has casual sex.

 

But a 30 something year old relationship minded woman that has never had casual sex may have slept with 10 people or so, which, from what I've read here on LS, is fairly high for a lot of people. Would that put her on the "not fit for a relationship" pile?

 

What I've bolded makes it a preference.

 

You are saying 'I am not dating this person because I'm not attracted to him/her' VS 'I am not dating him/her because he/she is black'

 

I'm in the same boat. I'm not usually attracted to black dudes but there is one at my gym I would totally go on a date with him.

 

The line is fine so I can understand how difficult it would be to grasp for some (emotionally immature) peeps.