crazy for thinking about doing it again?

[miguelcervantes]

We have decided to give it a run. For the next six months or so we will date and keep it away from the kids. I had a list of things I expected (normal BS stuff). She asked only two things 1) we not be sexual for some time she feels its a major reason that I stayed close. Its not true, but I allowed her to run with that idea for some time. 2) I not to date, text other women. She really believes I've had a ton of women.

 

We will attend at least 12 dates with MC in that time. She questioned my commitment if I'm not all in we shouldn't even start. She said DD asked her if I was moving back in and for the first time she didn't know how to answer her.

 

I feel good about my decision. I've spent the last few days reading a lot of the other women section. I connected my ex to a lot of those women in the sense that she was painfully waiting for me to pick her. I would read those stories and think "your such an ass, you've punished her enough" I even committed that if one of the ladies MM cared about her he would let her go. Here I was keeping her on the hook.

 

Good stuff DKT3! Her requests are reasonable and actually encouraging because it shows that she has put the right kind of thought into this. You were not keeping her on the hook (IMHO) but were staying close to her because you were still in love with her! And she with you! Which is what made this whole thing sad in the first place. But I would urge the two of you to take better care this time and be attentive and vigilant to each others needs and feelings. I really hope that this goes well for the two of you but as another poster said, if it doesn't, you will still be OK.

[waterwoman]

Good luck xx

[Spectre]

I don't think you are wrong, but I don't think you are right either. How can that be?

 

We encourage WS to come clean. Often they do not come clean at first. Once they understand that reconciliation depends on coming clean, many do decide to go all the way and tell the truth.

 

And then we want to toss them aside for what they did. Does that make any sense?

 

I prefer to think that she has done the right thing in letting it all out and does not need any additional punishment for that. Just sayin...

 

I get what you are saying, but at the end of the day we are still left with more lies from this woman, so why would you want her back? It's crazy. She is a cheater and a liar.

[Spectre]

If our marriage was a football game, in which bad sh*t we did to one another were points, I would have 5 field goals to her touchdown and field goal. For those not aware of scoring that means I'm ahead 15-10. Sure her sh*t was by itself worse then anything I've ever done to her. The scales are still not balanced. Those who have followed this has seen me write sereval times I don't know what it is that keeps her hanging on and waiting for me.

 

The problem here is that this is not a game, this is peoples LIVES. It is not a game. The fact of the matter is I don't care what you did to her, she still cheated on you and lied to you. I never said you were innocent, but thusfar I have not seen you say a single thing that would warrant such an extreme reaction as cheating. People go to couples counseling to deal with these issues..they don't sleep with other people.

 

You confuse me understanding how my ACTIONS made cheating an option for her, as me making excuses. I get NOW how the things I did made her feel. Alone, unloved, resentful and angry. I did HEAR her cries for me to be there, be a better husband a better father, yet I did nothing to fix it. Sure the way she responded was sh*tty, and I accept no blame in that.

 

The thing is nobody ever makes cheating an option..besides the one who cheats.

 

Even with her affair, I could look back with far more great memories of her and our marriage.

 

Which is the problem, because these memories were not special enough to her. They were not special enough to keep her from getting with another man. I'm not sure why you see that as a good thing?

 

A new relationship could never be as innocent on my part. I see her differently then I did. I saw her as "perfect" someone who would always do right by me even if it was all wrong for her. Unfair? Of course. But I'm being honest. I simply no longer see her as better then me.

 

Okay well you don't need to expect perfection, but you can surely expect her to not involve other men in the relationship, which is what happened. You can spin it any way you want to, but the fact of the matter is her past behavior suggests she doesn't love you as much as you love her. You talk about memories and stuff, but these memories weren't enough to make her say "I need to stop what I am doing because this is a mistake".

 

The thing people do not get is the more great memories you have..the worse the betrayal is. Think about it. If you had only crappy memories of someone, well..that is one thing, it would be easy to deal with a betrayal then.

 

Now, it is up to you of course to do what you feel is right, but doing so because you have "good memories" or something does not fit to me, because those memories are the very reason she should of never even considered this in the first place. If they weren't strong enough to deter this behavior, the memories do not mean as much to her as they do to you, and that just isn't fair and I hate to see that happen to someone, but if you feel that is the type of person you want then all I can say is good luck.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Spectre

[sidney2718]

I get what you are saying, but at the end of the day we are still left with more lies from this woman, so why would you want her back? It's crazy. She is a cheater and a liar.

 

Probably because none of us is perfect. We are all liars, big or small. And yes, infidelity is a great big lie and imperfection, but the basis of western civilization (and probably many others as well) is forgiveness.

 

I recognize that many, probably because of personal reasons, can't forgive. I understand that. But that is no reason to damn every unfaithful spouse.

 

It isn't just that infidelity is rampant today. It has ALWAYS been rampant. We have stories of infidelity going back hundreds of years before Christ. Stoning folks (not a good way to die at all) didn't work. Branding them didn't work. Nothing stopped it. We have got to recognize that infidelity is a human imperfection.

 

Redemption works. We need to strive for it. Once again, not everyone can accommodate infidelity, and I certainly don't condone it. But it seems to me to be good to recognize when folks want to try to reconcile and help them.

 

If you check what I've posted over my time here, I've come out right away strongly for divorce in cases where I thought it warranted. I'm not a "do-gooder" in all cases. And I understand bitterness. But for me bitterness is to be conquered and reconciliation urged whenever it seems that it can work. I hope in the end that you can find a way to forgive the liars and cheaters.

[Spectre]

I sometimes feel people use the "we all make mistakes" thing as a crux for everything. I know that nobody out there is perfect, we will all lie, etc. in our life time. It is just merely about the extent to which we do things. Some people take it too far..to a point where it can't be undone. Is that always the case? No, is that necessarily the case here? Not exactly, but do I believe that is the case? Mostly..yes. I think when it comes to marriage and adultery..there is a very fine line that just should not be crossed. In a perfect world yes this line could be crossed without serious consequences, but we do not live in such a world. Emotions run high and betrayals can have effects that echo for decades to come. It's no way for any person to have to live and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. It's not the same type of pain you feel from physically hurting yourself or having a loved one die..it is of a different type, a stagnant pain that can come and go at all hours of the night..that can be triggered by damn near just about anything, and it hurts to know someone currently in your life who is supposed to care for and love you..is responsible for making you feel so badly.

 

I guess that is my problem with cheating/adultery. Most people just don't think of the aftermath..of the utter destruction.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Spectre

[janedoe67]

OP, now that YOU, the thread starter, have chosen to try to reconcile, What can we do to help YOU in YOUR stated goal?

[Spectre]

OP, now that YOU, the thread starter, have chosen to try to reconcile, What can we do to help YOU in YOUR stated goal?

 

What more is there WE can do? WE can't force this woman to never betray this man, etc. WE can't confirm she isn't lying or deceiving him.

 

He asked if he was crazy for doing this, the answer was more or less yes. If he still chooses to do it, that is fine, but at that point I don't think WE can do anything further. It's basically up to the wife/ex wife now. All WE can do is now is ask that common sense be used and that he watches this woman's behavior, makes sure it never happens again, and certainly prepare for the possibility it might indeed happen again.

[DKT3]

What more is there WE can do? WE can't force this woman to never betray this man, etc. WE can't confirm she isn't lying or deceiving him.

 

He asked if he was crazy for doing this, the answer was more or less yes. If he still chooses to do it, that is fine, but at that point I don't think WE can do anything further. It's basically up to the wife/ex wife now. All WE can do is now is ask that common sense be used and that he watches this woman's behavior, makes sure it never happens again, and certainly prepare for the possibility it might indeed happen again.

 

I'm going in with my eyes open. The way I see it, there is a risk of infidelity with whatever woman I choose to have a relationship with. Why not take the risk with the mother of my children, a woman I've been in love with since high school and one who truely understands what the result of cheating will be. She knows how I will react, it would be swift, unforgiving and FINAL.

[DKT3]

OP, now that YOU, the thread starter, have chosen to try to reconcile, What can we do to help YOU in YOUR stated goal?

 

Thank you.

 

I see this as a maze, its always good to have directions of those who have been through, even if they didn't come out on the happy side. I plan to lean on the wisdom of this group. It seems to be more balanced then the other sites which I why I'm here. One seems to be full of bitter men who simply push for divorce and the other where they all seem to be drinking the kool aide.

[sidney2718]

I'm going in with my eyes open. The way I see it, there is a risk of infidelity with whatever woman I choose to have a relationship with. Why not take the risk with the mother of my children, a woman I've been in love with since high school and one who truely understands what the result of cheating will be. She knows how I will react, it would be swift, unforgiving and FINAL.

 

In fact, every relationship is a gamble. But you make a good case for the odds being much better for you now than they would be in a new relationship. I wish you good luck!

[Hope Shimmers]

In all honesty, from reading your posts in other threads I think you have a lot of work to do on yourself in order to make for a successful marriage.

 

It does not sound to me like you were husband of the year - you were gone almost all the time, she was physically and emotionally alone, you didn't do anything around the house, etc. She was basically a single mom - your words not mine. No, it doesn't justify an affair, but it does mean that to successfully repair the M that she is not the only one who has some changes to make.

 

You noted in your other thread that you have male friends who cheat and you joke around with them about how they degrade and abuse the OW they are cheating with. Despite knowing what these jerks are doing to their own wives (and the OW), you keep them as friends and engage in this conversation. I think that if you are going to go on a 'moral high ground' of making demands on her that relate to her never being unfaithful again, that you should practice what you preach on all ends, and lose these friends and the attitude that what is good for the goose is different for the gander. Otherwise I don't think you have a moral leg to stand on. My opinion.

[Scott Thomas]

In all honesty, from reading your posts in other threads I think you have a lot of work to do on yourself in order to make for a successful marriage.

 

It does not sound to me like you were husband of the year - you were gone almost all the time, she was physically and emotionally alone, you didn't do anything around the house, etc. She was basically a single mom - your words not mine. No, it doesn't justify an affair, but it does mean that to successfully repair the M that she is not the only one who has some changes to make.

 

You noted in your other thread that you have male friends who cheat and you joke around with them about how they degrade and abuse the OW they are cheating with. Despite knowing what these jerks are doing to their own wives (and the OW), you keep them as friends and engage in this conversation. I think that if you are going to go on a 'moral high ground' of making demands on her that relate to her never being unfaithful again, that you should practice what you preach on all ends, and lose these friends and the attitude that what is good for the goose is different for the gander. Otherwise I don't think you have a moral leg to stand on. My opinion.

 

So, the next time your spouse is out of home, working for you, you're free to cheat? Seems a bit unfair...

He was working and earning money for the family, not partying in Vegas.

As for his friends, he isn't pointing a gun to their heads and forcing them to cheat. This doesn't excuse their actions and he might do well by distancing himself from them.

Being cheated on can be a very traumatic incident and not many people deserve this. With all due respect, while a WS or OW/OM might feel the BS's pain, and suffer from their own betrayal, the BS's experience is quite different. I don't mean to insult you and hope that you have a wonderful life/marriage, but trust me when I say this, you'd share his sentiments if you're spouse betrayed you.

 

If I'm working for my family and have cheating friends, it does not give my spouse the right to stab me in the back. If she was so concerned about him leaving for work, she should've discussed the subject, asked him to change his job or shared her feeling about a potential A before barging into one.

[Spectre]

I'm going in with my eyes open. The way I see it, there is a risk of infidelity with whatever woman I choose to have a relationship with. Why not take the risk with the mother of my children, a woman I've been in love with since high school and one who truely understands what the result of cheating will be. She knows how I will react, it would be swift, unforgiving and FINAL.

 

Okay, but I just do see a few problems with this. For instance, you mention there is always risk of being cheated on. That is true of course in every relationship. However, that risk goes up once cheating has entered into the equation.

 

You say why not take a risk with the mother of your children, who you have loved since high school. I guess I'd respond by saying..because this was a person you have loved since high school and who was the mother of your children, and she still treated you this way.

 

You say she understands what the results of cheating will be..but the implication there is that she for some reason did not understand this before? You say that she won't do it again because it would be "final" and she would lose you forever, but most people would think they would get dumped if they cheated, so she knew that and did it anyways. It didn't work as a deterrent before.

 

You might say that before she had never actually experienced losing you, but that just isn't good enough. She is an adult, she has dealt with loss, etc. in her life before. Unless she's been kept isolated from the entire world. She didn't have to lose you to know that it would feel horrible to lose you. If she didn't feel that way from the start then there are deeper issues. I have to admit that is what puzzles me when I see people who forgive cheaters say things like "they know I'd never tolerate this again". Since..okay, before that were they under the impression they had a free pass? So they knew they could cheat and get away with it..and decided to just do it? That doesn't end up making the situation sound any better.

 

Like I said I wish you luck, but I think if you were truly going into this with your eyes open then you wouldn't be getting back together with her in the first place.

[Hope Shimmers]

So, the next time your spouse is out of home, working for you, you're free to cheat?

 

Please show me where I stated that in my post.

 

Being cheated on can be a very traumatic incident and not many people deserve this. With all due respect, while a WS or OW/OM might feel the BS's pain, and suffer from their own betrayal, the BS's experience is quite different. I don't mean to insult you and hope that you have a wonderful life/marriage, but trust me when I say this, you'd share his sentiments if you're spouse betrayed you.

 

I don't have a marriage, because my ex-H of 16 years was emotionally and physically abusive and also betrayed me (infidelity) at the end. But gee, thanks.

 

If I'm working for my family and have cheating friends, it does not give my spouse the right to stab me in the back. If she was so concerned about him leaving for work, she should've discussed the subject, asked him to change his job or shared her feeling about a potential A before barging into one.

 

I never said otherwise. I simply said that I don't think, based on this person's posts, that she is the only one with work to do.

 

I know that BS's stick up for each other no matter what, so I'm not surprised by this post.

[Spectre]

In all honesty, from reading your posts in other threads I think you have a lot of work to do on yourself in order to make for a successful marriage.

 

It does not sound to me like you were husband of the year - you were gone almost all the time, she was physically and emotionally alone, you didn't do anything around the house, etc. She was basically a single mom - your words not mine. No, it doesn't justify an affair, but it does mean that to successfully repair the M that she is not the only one who has some changes to make.

 

You noted in your other thread that you have male friends who cheat and you joke around with them about how they degrade and abuse the OW they are cheating with. Despite knowing what these jerks are doing to their own wives (and the OW), you keep them as friends and engage in this conversation. I think that if you are going to go on a 'moral high ground' of making demands on her that relate to her never being unfaithful again, that you should practice what you preach on all ends, and lose these friends and the attitude that what is good for the goose is different for the gander. Otherwise I don't think you have a moral leg to stand on. My opinion.

 

I don't even see why you are bringing up moral high grounds and trying to compare the situations. One is his own wife cheating, the other are his friends being cheaters. Is it classy behavior? No, but it doesn't really somehow balance things out or anything of the sort, which is kind of how your post seems to come off.

 

The truth is she had no valid reason to cheat, it doesn't matter if he has crappy friends or not, it doesn't matter if he wasn't husband of the year. She could of left the relationship, or spoken to him to try to work on things. There are always a variety of options to take here when it comes to trying to fix your marriage. A lot of paths to take. But for some reason, she ignored the multitude of other ways to solve the problem and instead chose the "sleep with other people" option. When you take marriage vows you essentially say you are in it for the good times and the bad. So that means you will not react to the bad times by utterly destroying everything the marriage was built on.

 

Saying, "well your friends cheat and you egg them on" or something, is pretty much just trying to grasp at something, anything to try to distract from the issue at hand, which is not his friends.

[Hope Shimmers]

I don't even see why you are bringing up moral high grounds and trying to compare the situations. One is his own wife cheating, the other are his friends being cheaters. Is it classy behavior? No, but it doesn't really somehow balance things out or anything of the sort, which is kind of how your post seems to come off.

 

The truth is she had no valid reason to cheat, it doesn't matter if he has crappy friends or not, it doesn't matter if he wasn't husband of the year. She could of left the relationship, or spoken to him to try to work on things. There are always a variety of options to take here when it comes to trying to fix your marriage. A lot of paths to take. But for some reason, she ignored the multitude of other ways to solve the problem and instead chose the "sleep with other people" option. When you take marriage vows you essentially say you are in it for the good times and the bad. So that means you will not react to the bad times by utterly destroying everything the marriage was built on.

 

Saying, "well your friends cheat and you egg them on" or something, is pretty much just trying to grasp at something, anything to try to distract from the issue at hand, which is not his friends.

 

If you will re-read my post, I clearly said that there was no excuse for her to cheat. So the entire premise of your reply is based on the opposite of what I said. What I did say is that to make a marriage work (reconciliation) takes two.

 

Wow, I can't believe the defensive replies.

[Bittersweetie]

So, the next time your spouse is out of home, working for you, you're free to cheat? Seems a bit unfair...

He was working and earning money for the family, not partying in Vegas.

As for his friends, he isn't pointing a gun to their heads and forcing them to cheat. This doesn't excuse their actions and he might do well by distancing himself from them.

Being cheated on can be a very traumatic incident and not many people deserve this. With all due respect, while a WS or OW/OM might feel the BS's pain, and suffer from their own betrayal, the BS's experience is quite different. I don't mean to insult you and hope that you have a wonderful life/marriage, but trust me when I say this, you'd share his sentiments if you're spouse betrayed you.

 

If I'm working for my family and have cheating friends, it does not give my spouse the right to stab me in the back. If she was so concerned about him leaving for work, she should've discussed the subject, asked him to change his job or shared her feeling about a potential A before barging into one.

 

I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) Hope's point was that if a couple is going to choose to reconcile after an A, they have to address not only the A but all the issues the relationship had before the A.

 

I'm a fWS...my H and I had issues. Those issues did not justify or excuse my A in any way shape or form. However, when we decided to work on things, I was fortunate that my H recognized that there were things that he could improve on in our marriage. I worked on me; he worked on him; and we both worked on us. And that led to a much healthier marriage for us.

 

Also, my H made it crystal clear when he decided to work on us that if I did anything like this again (break NC, another A, etc) that there would not be another chance. In his words, "World War Three." I have no doubt of his seriousness in that matter. However, I decided to work on me and change not for him or to keep him; I decided to make changes because I wanted to be a better person.

 

DK, you may see true changes in your wife and true effort to learn why she made these choices and such. Or you could see "cosmetic" changes that are meant to hold on to the relationship. The latter is probably what you are being warned against.

 

Hope this helps.

[DKT3]

I don't even see why you are bringing up moral high grounds and trying to compare the situations. One is his own wife cheating, the other are his friends being cheaters. Is it classy behavior? No, but it doesn't really somehow balance things out or anything of the sort, which is kind of how your post seems to come off.

 

The truth is she had no valid reason to cheat, it doesn't matter if he has crappy friends or not, it doesn't matter if he wasn't husband of the year. She could of left the relationship, or spoken to him to try to work on things. There are always a variety of options to take here when it comes to trying to fix your marriage. A lot of paths to take. But for some reason, she ignored the multitude of other ways to solve the problem and instead chose the "sleep with other people" option. When you take marriage vows you essentially say you are in it for the good times and the bad. So that means you will not react to the bad times by utterly destroying everything the marriage was built on.

 

Saying, "well your friends cheat and you egg them on" or something, is pretty much just trying to grasp at something, anything to try to distract from the issue at hand, which is not his friends.

 

I got under her skin and she has been taking digs at me every since. Whatever works I guess.

[Hope Shimmers]

I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) Hope's point was that if a couple is going to choose to reconcile after an A, they have to address not only the A but all the issues the relationship had before the A.

 

I'm a fWS...my H and I had issues. Those issues did not justify or excuse my A in any way shape or form. However, when we decided to work on things, I was fortunate that my H recognized that there were things that he could improve on in our marriage. I worked on me; he worked on him; and we both worked on us. And that led to a much healthier marriage for us.

 

Also, my H made it crystal clear when he decided to work on us that if I did anything like this again (break NC, another A, etc) that there would not be another chance. In his words, "World War Three." I have no doubt of his seriousness in that matter. However, I decided to work on me and change not for him or to keep him; I decided to make changes because I wanted to be a better person.

 

DK, you may see true changes in your wife and true effort to learn why she made these choices and such. Or you could see "cosmetic" changes that are meant to hold on to the relationship. The latter is probably what you are being warned against.

 

Hope this helps.

 

THANK YOU!!!

 

To the others: I'm sorry if people don't like my opinion, but I did not attack/argue with others' posts here. Just offered my own view. Last time I checked that was allowed here.

[Spectre]

If you will re-read my post, I clearly said that there was no excuse for her to cheat. So the entire premise of your reply is based on the opposite of what I said. What I did say is that to make a marriage work (reconciliation) takes two.

 

Wow, I can't believe the defensive replies.

 

I did read your post, I know what you said. But you were also talking about moral high grounds, etc. You said that, right? That he did not have the "moral high ground" or a "moral leg to stand on" or something along those lines? That to me implies saying these things are equal.

[Hope Shimmers]

I got under her skin and she has been taking digs at me every since. Whatever works I guess.

 

I'm not taking 'digs' at you DKT3. And by 'moral high road' in no way did I mean that expectation that your spouse be faithful is out of line. What I have a problem with is your double-standard that you find it okay to have friends who are cheaters and brag about it, hurting their wives in the process. And by your own admission you laugh and joke with them about it!

 

I find the double standard to be a character issue with you and if I were your wife, it would bother me. I just think you should practice what you preach - in all areas of your life. Either affairs are okay or they aren't.

[Spectre]

Yes, but what exactly are you suggesting? That he not joke with his friends? Or that he tells their wives they are cheating? Exactly how does that have any effect on his relationship with his own wife and their reconciling? I'm seriously asking. Is the implication that he somehow can't take infidelity in his own relationship seriously because of the way he acts with his friends?

 

When you say "practice what you preach" I take that to mean..if you do not want someone to cheat on you then you should not be a cheater yourself. That is what that means, but we do not have a situation of a cheater being upset they are being cheated on. He practiced what he preached every single day he was married via not cheating on her.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Spectre

[Hope Shimmers]

I did read your post, I know what you said. But you were also talking about moral high grounds, etc. You said that, right? That he did not have the "moral high ground" or a "moral leg to stand on" or something along those lines? That to me implies saying these things are equal.

 

My apologies then. That is not at all what I meant. And I see where my wording was confusing. Nowhere was I trying to say that there is an excuse for cheating or that they are 'equal' situations.

 

I just think the double-standard about affairs in terms of how he treats his W and his good friends is a character flaw that could be an issue in R. I don't think it's ever right to laugh and joke about A's and how it's funny to abuse the OW. These people are treating both their wives and OW like crap and I see it as a huge double standard.

[Hope Shimmers]

Yes, but what exactly are you suggesting? That he not joke with his friends? Or that he tells their wives they are cheating? Exactly how does that have any effect on his relationship with his own wife and their reconciling? I'm seriously asking. Is the implication that he somehow can't take infidelity in his own relationship seriously because of the way he acts with his friends?

 

When you say "practice what you preach" I take that to mean..if you do not want someone to cheat on you then you should not be a cheater yourself. That is what that means, but we do not have a situation of a cheater being upset they are being cheated on. He practiced what he preached every single day he was married via not cheating on her.

 

Yes, I think there is a character flaw in someone who can laugh and joke at how his friends treat OW badly and cheat their wives, no matter what. We can agree to disagree.