crazy for thinking about doing it again?

[Spectre]

Funny how after so much time apart you can quickly find yourself in the same pattern.

 

Yesterday I sprung the trip on my ex. I told her I had paid for everything and made the arrangements with her partner to clear her week from work. Out of no where she starts in about how she isn't going to allow me to control her, and how she needs time to plan these things. So I get pissed and walk out.

 

She called a few hours later and I ignored, then texts again ignored. As I laid down for bed I started to think. "This sh**t isn't going to work" many thoughts rolled around and I couldn't sleep. Then it hit me. Change is not just attitude and words, it has to be actions. I can't do the same things and expect different results.

 

Then it dawned on me, the way I told her about the trip it seemed like it was for her and the kids and not including me. Back to an issue from before. When we had problems I threw money at them. She saw me doing it again. Her reactions wasn't about planning of me being controlling, it was about her wanting to be with me on the trip. Again one of our issues. Her hiding her real feelings behind fake issues.

 

For all the improvements we have made apart, we have to change the 20+ year old dynamic of US. I see now that is where the focus has to be.

 

We cleared everything up by phone this morning and now she is on her way over after she drops the kids off.

 

Bang, no sex. Why did I agree to that again?

 

Dude it seems like you are STILL making excuses for this woman. The way she reacted is immature. I'm sorry, but it just is. You said you sat down and thought "this isn't going to work" and I think you are right. Why? Here you are, still making excuses for her.

 

I mean, I'm sorry dude, but I am going to be blunt: this woman should be on her best behavior with you. She cheated on you. I don't care what you did, you didn't physically abuse her. Whatever mistakes you made, you didn't make her cheat. You are finally giving her another chance after such a huge betrayal, that is not an easy thing to do. Then you try to do something nice for her and she essentially acts like a child. Even if she doesn't like surprises and normally might of been a bit upset you did this, the fact that SHE CHEATED AND YOU ARE FORGIVING HER FOR IT changes everything. I am not saying she has to just go along with everything no matter what, but just the way her attitude is already showing isn't a good sign to me.

 

This is why I said I still feel you made the wrong decision taking her back. It's just..I am not saying she should walk on egg shells around you, but if I had cheated, etc. and then my wife did this, even if I was a bit upset.. I'd suck it up and keep quiet because I cheated and here is someone trying to do something nice for me. I wouldnt throw a hissy fit over it.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Spectre

[Fluttershy]

Dude it seems like you are STILL making excuses for this woman. The way she reacted is immature. I'm sorry, but it just is. You said you sat down and thought "this isn't going to work" and I think you are right. Why? Here you are, still making excuses for her.

 

I mean, I'm sorry dude, but I am going to be blunt: this woman should be on her best behavior with you. She cheated on you. I don't care what you did, you didn't physically abuse her. Whatever mistakes you made, you didn't make her cheat. You are finally giving her another chance after such a huge betrayal, that is not an easy thing to do. Then you try to do something nice for her and she essentially acts like a child. Even if she doesn't like surprises and normally might of been a bit upset you did this, the fact that SHE CHEATED AND YOU ARE FORGIVING HER FOR IT changes everything. I am not saying she has to just go along with everything no matter what, but just the way her attitude is already showing isn't a good sign to me.

 

This is why I said I still feel you made the wrong decision taking her back. It's just..I am not saying she should walk on egg shells around you, but if I had cheated, etc. and then my wife did this, even if I was a bit upset.. I'd suck it up and keep quiet because I cheated and here is someone trying to do something nice for me. I wouldnt throw a hissy fit over it.

 

It is this sort of thinking that does not help with reconciliation. This is not a fresh betrayd case. Divorce and 5 years have already happened. The sort of imbalance where she is supposed to be perfect will not work out. I think as nothing in that post he said is what we would consider divorce worthy then he shouldn't be simply told to throw in a towel at the first arguement. Just because she didn't roll over and play dead. OP has loved her for 5 years. Let's help him work on this instead of picking apart every minor thing his xwife does.

[Spectre]

It is this sort of thinking that does not help with reconciliation. This is not a fresh betrayd case. Divorce and 5 years have already happened. The sort of imbalance where she is supposed to be perfect will not work out. I think as nothing in that post he said is what we would consider divorce worthy then he shouldn't be simply told to throw in a towel at the first arguement. Just because she didn't roll over and play dead. OP has loved her for 5 years. Let's help him work on this instead of picking apart every minor thing his xwife does.

 

It's actually the wifes behavior here that won't help. It doesn't matter if the affair happened 5 years ago, what matters is in the here and now he has chosen to forgive her and reconcile. So her acting like this, to me, shows me her level of commitment to this guy.

 

She doesn't need to roll over and play dead, but the way she acted just doesn't seem like a woman trying to show her lover she has changed. I never said they can never have an argument again, but her behavior here does NOT bode well for the future.

[Fluttershy]

It's actually the wifes behavior here that won't help. It doesn't matter if the affair happened 5 years ago, what matters is in the here and now he has chosen to forgive her and reconcile. So her acting like this, to me, shows me her level of commitment to this guy.

 

She doesn't need to roll over and play dead, but the way she acted just doesn't seem like a woman trying to show her lover she has changed. I never said they can never have an argument again, but her behavior here does NOT bode well for the future.

 

We must be reading different post because what i red was that he sprung a trip on her and even talked to her boss and was sending her and her daughter ona. Trip, signed sealed and delivered. And as someone who hates that sort of behaviour in people I understand why she got upset. I do not see how horrible her behaviour was. She did then say she was also upset he wasn't going but she was probably so mad herself at his control she didn't even know the reason fully. I know I have got mad and not understood why until I cooled down later. I just don't see this as being some sort of big sign or anything. She realized what really bothered her was him not coming and just sending them away.

 

And he was the one that didnt stat and hash it out. He walked out and she kept trying to contact him. So i really do fail to see where she was so second chance ending at fault?

Edited April 17, 2014 by Fluttershy

[Spectre]

We must be reading different post because what i red was that he sprung a trip on her and even talked to her boss and was sending her and her daughter ona. Trip, signed sealed and delivered. And as someone who hates that sort of behaviour in people I understand why she got upset. I do not see how horrible her behaviour was. She did then say she was also upset he wasn't going but she was probably so mad herself at his control she didn't even know the reason fully. I know I have got mad and not understood why until I cooled down later. I just don't see this as being some sort of big sign or anything. She realized what really bothered her was him not coming and just sending them away.

 

And he was the one that didnt stat and hash it out. He walked out and she kept trying to contact him. So i really do fail to see where she was so second chance ending at fault?

 

The problem isn't she got upset, the problem is how she treated her husband and handled it. If she can't even do that for something you perceive to be no big deal..how does that bode well for the future of the relationship? They haven't even been back together that long and already crap like this is happening.

 

The key thing is she is still acting childish. The other problem is then he went and made more excuses for her doing this. Even if this isn't some major thing, how is that a good sign? That shouldn't be happening, not for a woman who cheated on him.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Spectre

[janedoe67]

Flutter, you have to remember that there are people who are incapable of seeing any value in a person once they have cheated.

 

DTK, it sounds like your motives were good. You're right because you have some perspective. It takes awhile to change dynamics that cause problems. I say talk it through, tell her what you intent was. let her express why it bothered her. Make a plan for how to deal with it next time.

 

This woman did something awful. 6 years ago. She's been working and CELIBATE the whole time.

 

It may chap some people, but a person can change, regardless of how much more fun it is to keep them in the evil box.

[beach]

Are you sure she's not seeing someone at work?

 

She seems irritated you delved into changing her work schedule.has she always been controlling?

 

Maybe she doesn't want someone at work thinking she's taking a vacation with you.

[Spectre]

Flutter, you have to remember that there are people who are incapable of seeing any value in a person once they have cheated.

 

It's silly to see value that isn't there, is the thing here. If you cheat and are forgiven, then ACT LIKE IT. Act like you are aware of the huge thing your partner is doing for you. Don't act like an ungrateful child the second something doesn't go your way. It doesn't mean roll over, but it surely doesn't mean act like a brat.

 

This woman did something awful. 6 years ago

 

Wasn't aware cheating had a statute of limitations, good to know.

 

She's been working and CELIBATE the whole time.

 

No, correction: she CLAIMED she was celibate the whole time. She also claimed the affair was less then a year and then shockingly..suddenly it comes out it was 2 years. So are you seriously taking this route? The liar, who still unveiled lies as of the last few weeks, said she didn't sleep around? Well okay, thanks, that sure clears it up.

 

It may chap some people, but a person can change, regardless of how much more fun it is to keep them in the evil box.

 

I'm sorry, but just no. It's no fun to keep them in the "evil box" and people can change, but part of showing your husband you have changed is not reacting like a child at the FIRST SIGN OF AN ISSUE. But yes, continue to play the poor victim card. She cheated, lied about the circumstances(even as of a week or two ago she lied) and then reacted like a child the first time a situation came up she didn't like. The FIRST TIME. It hasn't even been a few weeks.

 

So no, we won't be playing the poor victim card here, we won't be playing the "oh she has been celibate for 6 years and is trying to change" card here, not when actions say otherwise. Actions like revealing she lied about the details of the affair..or actions like her reaction to this. I get it: you cheated on your husband and he forgave you and now you are here to champion every single cause for a cheating woman to be forgiven, even when she still acts disrespectful in the here and now. We get it, people can change, but it's not something you say you do, it's something you actually do. So if you say you changed, but then revealed you lied about how long the affair was? Red flag. So if you say you've changed and your husband forgives you and within 2 weeks he tries to do something nice and you take it the wrong way? It is very much up to YOU how you react to that situation. Not making a mountain out of a moll hill goes a LONG way to the whole "actually showing I've changed instead of merely saying it".

Edited April 18, 2014 by Spectre

[DKT3]

First I would like to thank those interested and taking time to read and reply. I really don't have anyone to talk this over with. Not that I feel comfortable with.

 

We are on the west coast with family so I won't be around much.

 

My mother is on to us, she simply told me "be careful" I said what are you talking about she said "we both know what I'm talking about, be careful".

 

We (just her and I) are heading up north in a few hours to spend today and tomorrow together. Back here Sunday for her birthday and Easter with the families.

 

That what's going on now.

[DKT3]

Let me get this right - you planned and paid for her vacation - yet she was pissed at you?

 

She cheated way back when, right?

 

Hmmm, ... Wow - that is some severe attitude and entitlement on that gal.

 

Are you sure she has changed her attitude? Or changed at all?

 

Miscommunication, she thought I was sending her and the kids but not going myself. I got mad and walked away without explaining that I was coming.

[DKT3]

Dude it seems like you are STILL making excuses for this woman. The way she reacted is immature. I'm sorry, but it just is. You said you sat down and thought "this isn't going to work" and I think you are right. Why? Here you are, still making excuses for her.

 

I mean, I'm sorry dude, but I am going to be blunt: this woman should be on her best behavior with you. She cheated on you. I don't care what you did, you didn't physically abuse her. Whatever mistakes you made, you didn't make her cheat. You are finally giving her another chance after such a huge betrayal, that is not an easy thing to do. Then you try to do something nice for her and she essentially acts like a child. Even if she doesn't like surprises and normally might of been a bit upset you did this, the fact that SHE CHEATED AND YOU ARE FORGIVING HER FOR IT changes everything. I am not saying she has to just go along with everything no matter what, but just the way her attitude is already showing isn't a good sign to me.

 

This is why I said I still feel you made the wrong decision taking her back. It's just..I am not saying she should walk on egg shells around you, but if I had cheated, etc. and then my wife did this, even if I was a bit upset.. I'd suck it up and keep quiet because I cheated and here is someone trying to do something nice for me. I wouldnt throw a hissy fit over it.

 

Yes she cheated, however does that mean she has to sit silent when I do things that upsets her? I don't think so. Call it making excuses, maybe I do to some degree. I still feel a lot of guilt for things I've done in the past. Yet I understand NOW its important to see how my actions precede her reactions. Seeing and understanding that, I feel would have gone a long way pre A.

[DKT3]

Are you sure she's not seeing someone at work?

 

She seems irritated you delved into changing her work schedule.has she always been controlling?

 

Maybe she doesn't want someone at work thinking she's taking a vacation with you.

 

She is a co-owner of a bridal shop so with proms and summer weddings this is the busy season for them. There is her and her partner and three other young ladies that work there so if she is having a relationship there then I need to be having a different conversation.

[DKT3]

It's silly to see value that isn't there, is the thing here. If you cheat and are forgiven, then ACT LIKE IT. Act like you are aware of the huge thing your partner is doing for you. Don't act like an ungrateful child the second something doesn't go your way. It doesn't mean roll over, but it surely doesn't mean act like a brat.

 

 

 

Wasn't aware cheating had a statute of limitations, good to know.

 

 

 

No, correction: she CLAIMED she was celibate the whole time. She also claimed the affair was less then a year and then shockingly..suddenly it comes out it was 2 years. So are you seriously taking this route? The liar, who still unveiled lies as of the last few weeks, said she didn't sleep around? Well okay, thanks, that sure clears it up.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but just no. It's no fun to keep them in the "evil box" and people can change, but part of showing your husband you have changed is not reacting like a child at the FIRST SIGN OF AN ISSUE. But yes, continue to play the poor victim card. She cheated, lied about the circumstances(even as of a week or two ago she lied) and then reacted like a child the first time a situation came up she didn't like. The FIRST TIME. It hasn't even been a few weeks.

 

So no, we won't be playing the poor victim card here, we won't be playing the "oh she has been celibate for 6 years and is trying to change" card here, not when actions say otherwise. Actions like revealing she lied about the details of the affair..or actions like her reaction to this. I get it: you cheated on your husband and he forgave you and now you are here to champion every single cause for a cheating woman to be forgiven, even when she still acts disrespectful in the here and now. We get it, people can change, but it's not something you say you do, it's something you actually do. So if you say you changed, but then revealed you lied about how long the affair was? Red flag. So if you say you've changed and your husband forgives you and within 2 weeks he tries to do something nice and you take it the wrong way? It is very much up to YOU how you react to that situation. Not making a mountain out of a moll hill goes a LONG way to the whole "actually showing I've changed instead of merely saying it".

 

I liked your comment not because I agree but because I value your opinion.

 

She hasn't (or I haven't caught her) lied to me since the divorce. Since I served her with the papers the only thing she has lied about was the 9 months which was two years or 20 months.

 

Over the years since she has tried to talk to me and tell me things. I acted like I didn't care and didn't want to know. It was really I didn't want to hear it or be hurt anymore so I shut her down. At one point I told her that if she continued I would have to go NC.

 

I explained the trip thing in the other anwsers.

 

I don't see how she is playing the victim card.

[janedoe67]

Yes she cheated, however does that mean she has to sit silent when I do things that upsets her? I don't think so. Call it making excuses, maybe I do to some degree. I still feel a lot of guilt for things I've done in the past. Yet I understand NOW its important to see how my actions precede her reactions. Seeing and understanding that, I feel would have gone a long way pre A.

 

Yes, DTK, it does.

 

From now on, the fact that you were magnanimous enough to stay in the same room with the piece of trash that she will always be should be enough to silence any so-called feelings she may think she is entitled to. She is no longer human, and she should thank her lucky stars anyone would deign to acknowledge her existence. She no longer has the right to need, want, feel, or disagree with anything...not if she really is sorry.

[Spectre]

I liked your comment not because I agree but because I value your opinion.

 

She hasn't (or I haven't caught her) lied to me since the divorce. Since I served her with the papers the only thing she has lied about was the 9 months which was two years or 20 months.

 

Over the years since she has tried to talk to me and tell me things. I acted like I didn't care and didn't want to know. It was really I didn't want to hear it or be hurt anymore so I shut her down. At one point I told her that if she continued I would have to go NC.

 

I explained the trip thing in the other anwsers.

 

I don't see how she is playing the victim card.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply she was playing the victim. Rather, I was saying that is what I thought the other poster was trying to imply. I don't think she was playing the victim, I just think her reaction should of been better, all things considered.

 

Yes she cheated, however does that mean she has to sit silent when I do things that upsets her? I don't think so. Call it making excuses, maybe I do to some degree. I still feel a lot of guilt for things I've done in the past. Yet I understand NOW its important to see how my actions precede her reactions. Seeing and understanding that, I feel would have gone a long way pre A.

 

I never said she has to sit silent for anything. The point I was trying to make is the way she went about it. I'm saying that if she was going to be angry, considering everything that has happened, maybe she should of handled it better. I would never advise someone to merely roll over because that will inevitably just cause another problem down the road.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Spectre

[bigman1]

DKT, you guys definitely need to work on communication. You need to work on identifying patterns of the past that were destructive and come up with new patterns or strategies to deal with that.

 

Her response was really ridiculous as all she had to do was say what was really bothering her. Your response was equally ridiculous as all you had to do was tell her that you were coming, too.

 

You guys are speaking to each other in different languages, at times, and getting pissed that the other one didn't get the point. That is really solvable. Of course, you do have to deal with the whole avoidance stuff going on with you cause if you get back together, you can't do that any more and all of the old crap is gonna come back up. 9 months vs 2 years is gonna hit hard. That she cheated is gonna hit hard. Why she cheated is gonna hit hard. All of it. You at least have the benefit of saying that you kicked her cheating azz to the curb and sowed some oats while she pined away, but revenge does not equal healing.

 

Still, as much antipathy as I have for cheating spouses and as bothered by stories of reconciliation as I am (and I don't know really know why) I think you guys can work. Of course, I am also really bothered by folks who don't effectively communicate. You guys are on my list, but I like y'all.

[Oberfeldwebel]

DKT3, I believe that most relationships can be repaired, if both parties work to repair the damage. I think that you are on the right track with the MC and should also listen to your momma, she has your best interests at heart. After reading the entire thread I have a couple of comments.

 

1. It seems to me that one of the biggest obstacles is communication. You and your ex need to figure out how to better communicate without jumping to conclusions. This also includes not only listening while she speaks, but hearing and processing what she is saying, not just waiting to respond. There are exercises you can do to practice this process.

 

2. While the relationship is between you and your ex, it also involves the children and may be worthwhile having a session that includes the entire family. This gives all a voice and could be used as a bonding event.

 

3. An open forum can sometimes take odd turns. This happens when folks are trying to convey complex issues in a couple of sentences. Take advice at face value, but don't feel that you have to answer all. Some people don't take the time to read the entire thread before jumping into the foray. Most people are well intended, even if they are a little off course.

 

4. Best wishes to you and your family, hope you have a Happy Easter.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Oberfeldwebel

[Spectre]

Her response was really ridiculous as all she had to do was say what was really bothering her.

 

This is more or less what I've been trying to say. For me I find it to not be a good sign that not even 1-2 weeks into reconciling she can't recognize things like this and try to change the way she reacts to things.

 

Nobody should ever roll over, but the fact that this man is taking a huge risk in deciding to trust her again also definitely has to factor into the equation. Show him that you understand how big of a deal this is.

[beach]

For some reason your story still shows your exW's sense of entitlement.

[DKT3]

We're having a great time. Drove up the PCH just awesome, I forgot how cool it is. Went to a winery got alittle too happy. Then she brings up the A. Ended up talking for a couple hours, drunk. Not the best idea.

 

She did a timeline as best she could remember, it was about 7 years ago that it ended for the most part. She told me she broke it off 7 or 8 times and they would go several months at a time with no contact. She was the one that always started it back up. It was the only question I asked. She was slow with the answer but I feel she was honest. She again told me she wasn't in love with him, she had cared about him.

 

I ended the conversation because I was having a good time. Told her we needed to set a side a time for it and stick to that time.

[DKT3]

Thanks for the replies, I will respond later. Have a nice weekend

[AlwaysGrowing]

I spent Christmas week driving the PCH....and it was breathtaking, so many places to stop and relax....and just be.

 

It is wise to pre-plan affair discussion when you can. Kudos to both of you for deciding to enjoy this time together, building new memories.

[Darth Vader]

We're having a great time. Drove up the PCH just awesome, I forgot how cool it is. Went to a winery got alittle too happy. Then she brings up the A. Ended up talking for a couple hours, drunk. Not the best idea.

 

She did a timeline as best she could remember, it was about 7 years ago that it ended for the most part. She told me she broke it off 7 or 8 times and they would go several months at a time with no contact. She was the one that always started it back up. It was the only question I asked. She was slow with the answer but I feel she was honest. She again told me she wasn't in love with him, she had cared about him.

 

I ended the conversation because I was having a good time. Told her we needed to set a side a time for it and stick to that time.

 

If "she" always started it back up, that ought to tell you something right there! She was more than willing to cheat on you while making you the fall back plan! I got to ask WHY do you want to think about getting back with her after all the hell and turmoil she's put you through? Why bother? I think there's more to her than you think, plus, she may be trying to screw you over more, for money perhaps? Leave this chic alone and find someone else before you get hurt again! She ain't worth it!

[DKT3]

If "she" always started it back up, that ought to tell you something right there! She was more than willing to cheat on you while making you the fall back plan! I got to ask WHY do you want to think about getting back with her after all the hell and turmoil she's put you through? Why bother? I think there's more to her than you think, plus, she may be trying to screw you over more, for money perhaps? Leave this chic alone and find someone else before you get hurt again! She ain't worth it!

 

My exWW was in a wayward state of mind still convincing herself it was something she deserved.

 

Like most WW here, she thought she was ready to walk away from the marriage. Until she was served, that's when it all came crashing down around her. I saw a total and quick 180, it was too late.

 

Now all these years later, I really see her as a lesser risk then a new woman. I really believe she has learned from this and understands what a repeat would mean. Maybe I'm wrong, but with kids involved its that little bit extra that makes me willing to take the chance.

[DKT3]

I spent Christmas week driving the PCH....and it was breathtaking, so many places to stop and relax....and just be.

 

It is wise to pre-plan affair discussion when you can. Kudos to both of you for deciding to enjoy this time together, building new memories.

 

Yes, right now we have MC on Thursday and fridays so we set aside wednesdays to talk affair and other issues we had pre A.

 

Her timeline yesterday has me thinking about a lot of questions that never really crossed my mind.

 

For some reason the thought of her being with him while I was talking and texting her when I was traveling is really eating at me. The thought that she was laying in his arms talking to me really has some anger boil under the surface. I was warned that I would find something that got to me. I really honestly thought I was over the physical aspect. It took everything to not ask about it since the timeline thing. I deep down already know there were times that it happened. I'm going to wait until MC so my anger doesn't take over and I end it all before we really get started.

 

Trigger? Maybe. I've kinda withdrawn for fear that I will explode. We're at the airport now and I'm looking forward to getting home and being away from her for a while. This isn't a good sign. But I have to be honest.