Which ever way it falls...

[SolG]

MM and I spent the weekend together. On the way back to the airport on the last night we started taking about his upcoming MC and what it may mean for us. It was immensely emotional. We continued the convo later as well via text/email. This is a direct quote from MM:

 

'I'm optimistic about us. You want to know why I'm tired and exhausted? My optimism about us means things may well go well for you... For me it doesn't matter which way it goes. I am going to die inside. I lose you, or one way or another I lose my kids. So guess what? I'm utterly exhausted and hurting terribly too.'

 

He is so conflicted. I told him if that is the way he truly feels--in a no win--then sacrifice me because I'll survive. Not well, but I will. And I'd rather that than be the constant reminder to him of how he failed to provide the perfect nuclear family context for his children.

 

But then he tells me that I'm not listening and empathising; that I don't listen well when I feel threatened emotionally. Which is true. I start rationalising and tell him what the research says about children in divorce/separation, yadda yadda... That he just wants me to listen and understand what he is going through and where he is coming from.

 

I love him so much I'm on the verge of walking away. But the kicker is the verge is not actually doing it. Because I'm also selfish enough to stay.

 

Have you been here? :'-(

[Tullyseptember]

Hi SolG,

 

You may want to read your own post a few times to see what stands out. It appears you both are caught up in a romance novel;) I don't understand the thinking of his that he loses his kids if a divorce occurs. They will always be his kids and if his primary relationship is unhealthy and all the steps that can be taken to reactify the unhealthy relationship then divorce maybe the only option if he and his wife are not able to do this. I divorced and yes it was tough on all involved, it took hard work to rebuild the family bond but we did it and the reality is that real life can be hard work and tough at times. I'm sorry if this post comes across in any way rude. I was where you were at one time, the over the top emotions which meant I missed a lot of what was really going on. When the blinders were off the selfishness of my actions were very glaring and very humbling of what I willingly put myself through. Read your posts back and see if you can gain objectivity

[QuakerOats]

MM and I spent the weekend together. On the way back to the airport on the last night we started taking about his upcoming MC and what it may mean for us. It was immensely emotional. We continued the convo later as well via text/email. This is a direct quote from MM:

 

'I'm optimistic about us. You want to know why I'm tired and exhausted? My optimism about us means things may well go well for you... For me it doesn't matter which way it goes. I am going to die inside. I lose you, or one way or another I lose my kids. So guess what? I'm utterly exhausted and hurting terribly too.'

 

He is so conflicted. I told him if that is the way he truly feels--in a no win--then sacrifice me because I'll survive. Not well, but I will. And I'd rather that than be the constant reminder to him of how he failed to provide the perfect nuclear family context for his children.

 

But then he tells me that I'm not listening and empathising; that I don't listen well when I feel threatened emotionally. Which is true. I start rationalising and tell him what the research says about children in divorce/separation, yadda yadda... That he just wants me to listen and understand what he is going through and where he is coming from.

 

I love him so much I'm on the verge of walking away. But the kicker is the verge is not actually doing it. Because I'm also selfish enough to stay.

 

Have you been here? :'-(

 

 

I was in a similar push and pull. It is heartbreaking and exhausted. Does his wife know what is going on? Why does he think divorcing means losing his kids?

 

I'm sorry for you. It must be very brutal to go from spending time away with him and knowing he is about to go home and go to MC, presumably to try and fix his marriage.

[veryhappy]

What's the conflict? You have a guy heading off to MC, wanting to keep living with his kids all the time. Unless his w decides she's over, the only result from MC will seem some renewed sense of their m. It can't be that they threw away the money on counseling, right?

 

Oh the so sad and unhappy conflicted MM. I've been there, he played things out and came back to tell me about how grea things became for him. Give it some thought before you scoop up all the bs he's offering.

[Sub]

Oh the so sad and unhappy conflicted MM.

 

Exactly. "I am going to die inside."

[Mickey1982]

What's the conflict? You have a guy heading off to MC, wanting to keep living with his kids all the time. Unless his w decides she's over, the only result from MC will seem some renewed sense of their m. It can't be that they threw away the money on counseling, right?

 

Oh the so sad and unhappy conflicted MM. I've been there, he played things out and came back to tell me about how grea things became for him. Give it some thought before you scoop up all the bs he's offering.

 

Cutedragon, how long are you NC?

[veryhappy]

Last time I saw him was September 2012, well if you don't count seeing him on the freeway of all places lol. I got a few messages from him afterwards, sent him a very do not contact me or else message end of octoberthat year. Received an image for my birthday with no words early last year and deleted that email account. Haven't heard from him.

 

What happened in Sep 2012 is that he went to MC after he insisted he was done with the marriage. Been there, done that. There's no conflict just a bunch a bs. A man who goes on vacation with someone else, a man who goes to couple counseling with someone else...is not with you and certainly not showing that wants to be with you especially with this playing things out attitude, letting things fall where they may (speaking to OP).

Edited April 1, 2014 by cutedragon

[Mickey1982]

Last time I saw him was September 2012, well if you don't count seeing him on the freeway of all places lol. I got a few messages from him afterwards, sent him a very do not contact me or else message end of octoberthat year. Received an image for my birthday with no words early last year and deleted that email account. Haven't heard from him.

 

What happened in Sep 2012 is that he went to MC after he insisted he was done with the marriage. Been there, done that. There's no conflict just a bunch a bs. A man who goes on vacation with someone else, a man who goes to couple counseling with someone else...is not with you and certainly not showing that wants to be with you especially with this playing things out attitude, letting things fall where they may (speaking to OP).

 

 

You sound so strong which is why I asked. My situation is different, but the pain lingers everyday even after 9 weeks of NC after his d-day. I just want to know there is hope in sight which is why I keep comparing stories of recovery! Thx for replying!

[underwater2010]

Why is it that you cannot just let him focus on his marriage. He wants you to empathize with him. You claim that love him and want what is best for him. You can see that even the thought of spending less time with his kids is "killing him"...so why not just let him go. You state that you will survive. So do it.

 

It sounds as thought you are both being selfish people. He is willing to attend MC as to keep his family and you are willing to stand by and watch him deceive his wife even further...just to "win" him. You are willing to let him suffer the loss of time with his kids just so the two of you can be together.

 

What do you think is going to come of this should the two of you end up together. He cannot even accept that it will be his own doing that cause the loss of time with his kids. He WILL blame you...please stop and think about that. He is not even willing to flat out end his marriage for you. He would rather future fake with both his wife and you. And you are willing to accept that? Why?

[veryhappy]

I'll try to reply to your thread as we are getting off topic. I did write on the spinopp thread someone opened while your thread was reviewed, but you probably didn't get to see it.

[whichwayisup]

I am going to die inside. I lose you, or one way or another I lose my kids. So guess what? I'm utterly exhausted and hurting terribly too.'

 

He's put himself in this spot, having to choose between you and his kids. How things are now with his kids, seeing them daily vs not seeing them daily and having to deal with the huge fall out if he chooses you.

 

Can you live with that? Seems he can't.

 

Hate reading that he says *may* turn out in your favour. May doesn't mean anything, all it does is give you hope and he hasn't chosen/decided yet.

 

Think hard what it truly is you want out of this. Is all this worth it?

[jwi71]

'I'm optimistic about us. You want to know why I'm tired and exhausted? My optimism about us means things may well go well for you... For me it doesn't matter which way it goes. I am going to die inside. I lose you, or one way or another I lose my kids. So guess what? I'm utterly exhausted and hurting terribly too.'

 

What a crock of horseshyte.

Thank God he sent that via text so you coulnd't slap him for being an overly melodramatic whiny little....

 

Seriously, if your FIRST thought wasn't that - I dunno...care to buy some ocean front property in Arizona?

 

He is so conflicted. I told him if that is the way he truly feels--in a no win--then sacrifice me because I'll survive. Not well, but I will. And I'd rather that than be the constant reminder to him of how he failed to provide the perfect nuclear family context for his children.

 

Is this a serious post SolG - it is April 1st after all...

 

But then he tells me that I'm not listening and empathising; that I don't listen well when I feel threatened emotionally. Which is true. I start rationalising and tell him what the research says about children in divorce/separation, yadda yadda... That he just wants me to listen and understand what he is going through and where he is coming from.

 

Yeah, he does that because he is a liar - and liars don't like getting called out on their lies.

 

I know its true. YOU know its true - hell, everyone KNOWS its true.

 

And, really, say he does leave (don't hold your breath) - do YOU really WANT to be "the reason he lost his kids" - no pressure there huh? Because that's YOUR fate if you persist here.

 

Thanks, but I'd pass.

 

Have you been here? :'-(

 

Yes.

I managed to file and get D anyway.

And the kids, who were 6 and 4 at the time, were and are fine.

 

Its a bunch of drama and BS on his part - and you better believe you will be married to that (provided he ACTUALLY does anything other than verbal pseudo-self-serving-overly-dramatic-12-year-old-girl-dating-drama crap he is spewing)

[KaliLove]

MM and I spent the weekend together. On the way back to the airport on the last night we started taking about his upcoming MC and what it may mean for us. It was immensely emotional. We continued the convo later as well via text/email. This is a direct quote from MM:

 

'I'm optimistic about us. You want to know why I'm tired and exhausted? My optimism about us means things may well go well for you... For me it doesn't matter which way it goes. I am going to die inside. I lose you, or one way or another I lose my kids. So guess what? I'm utterly exhausted and hurting terribly too.'

 

He is so conflicted. I told him if that is the way he truly feels--in a no win--then sacrifice me because I'll survive. Not well, but I will. And I'd rather that than be the constant reminder to him of how he failed to provide the perfect nuclear family context for his children.

 

But then he tells me that I'm not listening and empathising; that I don't listen well when I feel threatened emotionally. Which is true. I start rationalising and tell him what the research says about children in divorce/separation, yadda yadda... That he just wants me to listen and understand what he is going through and where he is coming from.

 

I love him so much I'm on the verge of walking away. But the kicker is the verge is not actually doing it. Because I'm also selfish enough to stay.

 

Have you been here? :'-(

 

Oh boo hoo, he couldn't keep his **** in his pants and now he's paying the price for it.

 

 

You would not only survive, but you would be just fine without this sad sack piece of mind-game playing crap. Fine..you love him..you need to love yourself more and stop letting him treat you like a toy that he can play with when he feels like it and toss aside when he goes home to his family.

 

 

Not worth it. Run away.

[Nothisgirl]

What a crock of horseshyte.

Thank God he sent that via text so you coulnd't slap him for being an overly melodramatic whiny little....

 

Seriously, if your FIRST thought wasn't that - I dunno...care to buy some ocean front property in Arizona?

 

 

 

Is this a serious post SolG - it is April 1st after all...

 

 

 

Yeah, he does that because he is a liar - and liars don't like getting called out on their lies.

 

I know its true. YOU know its true - hell, everyone KNOWS its true.

 

And, really, say he does leave (don't hold your breath) - do YOU really WANT to be "the reason he lost his kids" - no pressure there huh? Because that's YOUR fate if you persist here.

 

Thanks, but I'd pass.

 

 

 

Yes.

I managed to file and get D anyway.

And the kids, who were 6 and 4 at the time, were and are fine.

 

Its a bunch of drama and BS on his part - and you better believe you will be married to that (provided he ACTUALLY does anything other than verbal pseudo-self-serving-overly-dramatic-12-year-old-girl-dating-drama crap he is spewing)

 

This times 1000!!!! What a manipulating sack of ****!! he's going to die either way? No, he's not..mm needs to grow some balls and make a decision. He is playing on your emotions so you will stick around well he heads off to marriage counseling continuing to eat cake.

 

I also divorced with two young kids, 2 and 4 at the time...the are amazingly well adjusted and have a loving and connected bond with both their father and I. Your MM is really pulling out all the stops

[BehindTheseHazelEyes]

MM and I spent the weekend together. On the way back to the airport on the last night we started taking about his upcoming MC and what it may mean for us. It was immensely emotional. We continued the convo later as well via text/email. This is a direct quote from MM:

 

'I'm optimistic about us. You want to know why I'm tired and exhausted? My optimism about us means things may well go well for you... For me it doesn't matter which way it goes. I am going to die inside. I lose you, or one way or another I lose my kids. So guess what? I'm utterly exhausted and hurting terribly too.'

 

He is so conflicted. I told him if that is the way he truly feels--in a no win--then sacrifice me because I'll survive. Not well, but I will. And I'd rather that than be the constant reminder to him of how he failed to provide the perfect nuclear family context for his children.

 

But then he tells me that I'm not listening and empathising; that I don't listen well when I feel threatened emotionally. Which is true. I start rationalising and tell him what the research says about children in divorce/separation, yadda yadda... That he just wants me to listen and understand what he is going through and where he is coming from.

 

I love him so much I'm on the verge of walking away. But the kicker is the verge is not actually doing it. Because I'm also selfish enough to stay.

 

Have you been here? :'-(

 

I was there. And if MC was part of the regimen, I'd be gone.

 

You are worth more than 2nd best. If he wants to make it work with his W, let him.

 

You should be first, end of story.

 

People will treat you the way you let them. You should be first. If he can't do that, then F him, he doesn't deserve your fidelity.

[SolG]

Well, I guess that excerpt from MM does come across as kinda whiney and melodramatic out of context. It was actually part of a really heated exchange between us. Pretty much whine free really as a whole... but possibly with a dash of over the top emotiveness on both of our behalf's due to things running hot in the moment.

 

He sees the MC they are about to enter as exit counselling; his W is aware of this intent. They are actually looking at separation under one roof; to continue co-parenting and provide the kids with the security of continued access to both of them.

 

However, his W still does hold some hope that the MC may lead to reconciliation. (She thinks we had a three month EA and have been NC since dday six months ago.) Even though MM says it is remote at best, reconciliation is of course still a possible outcome I believe.

 

I get the strain he is under. I've been through a marriage breakdown myself. Although I didn't have children at home by then, it was still very painful. xH and I cared very much for each other, still do, but not in the right way to sustain a marriage. It is very painful to watch someone you deeply care about hurt.

 

His assertion about 'losing' the kids is not really literal; if they do the under one roof separation (and it certainly sounds like they will), he will still see them as much as he does today. It is more about his children losing the idyllic setting and security of a 'normal' nuclear family where the parents are together and in love. He thinks that anything less than this means he's failed them. He realises that this is already really the case in his M; but he fears the impact on his children of making this overt. And it's a real fear; it will be a fundamental shift in all of their lives.

 

Is he emotionally manipulating me? Possibly :-/ But I don't think this is his intent. He has made his decision; but that doesn't mean it won't/can't change.

 

Should I walk away and 'let' him focus on his M? I do love him and it's tempting at times. Ultimately you're right; I am too selfish. I've given him the option many times to end this. If that is what he wants, he knows all he has to do is look me in the eye and tell me that. And I will go and not look back.

 

He has my line in the sand, and I will walk if it comes to that. In the interim, I'll give him the time, space and support he needs to go through this as best I can. Wherever it may fall.

[tornado]

Of course he is manipulating you.

[spookysonata]

You don't have to wait for him to tell you it's over. You can make that decision yourself, any time you want to.

If his wife caught him once, why did he not take the opportunity to end the marriage then? Why the lies about it being an EA that ended months ago?

[Patrice]

You will realize in time, that you are being played. If he wanted to end the marriage he would have ... my situation started when my marriage ended. He told me at the time, that he could not leave his kids - and when his youngest was 18, and off to college - he would exit the marriage. Guess what ... she is 18, nearly 19 ... and the situation in the home is so bad, that she can't leave home. So, the marriage continues - he lies ... and I am gone.

[SolG]

It's all in my other posts... but the synopsis is that he was already unhappy and considering the future of his M before me. And he wants it to end amicably and of it's own accord; not due to the outing of our A. And ultimately he is looking to separate due to his M, not because of me. I don't necessarily agree with all of this. However, I respect that it's his choice how he handles his M.

 

Now to my choices... I absolutely know I can end it anytime I want. That I can end it of my own accord. But at this point I don't want to.

 

If he is consciously playing me (which I don't believe he is)... he's running out of playtime! First quarter 2015 is the deadline for us to be openly dating or I will have to go. I can't stand the isolation, subterfuge, hiding and pretending, and the emotional toll. I can't sustain it too much longer. He knows and acknowledges this, and how serious I am.

 

PS, By openly dating we mean just that... dating, and introducing 'us' as a couple to close friends and family in this context. We don't plan to paint the town red, change Facebook relationship statuses or flaunt ourselves in any way. We do not intend to ever marry, and won't even look at cohabitation until his kids are much older. We are in no rush to rush anything of this nature, other than being together often and openly.

[spookysonata]

He doesn't have to wait, either. His wife thinks the affair is over and they are going to MC with a possibility of reconciliation, and he's letting her think this because...? It isn't the way he wants the marriage to end?

I'm sorry. It really reads like he is stringing both of you along because he likes having a wife and a girlfriend.

[veryhappy]

There are red flags all over it and you can't believe it because you are caught in your feelings.

 

This MC will not lead to exiting the M. If that were the plan, it would go differently. He'd tell her there's no chance in hell for them to be together because he is moving on, and he'd have a plan to move out. What ages are the kids or what special needs do they have to require the parents to live under the same roof?

 

Please believe us as we've been there. He's hedging his bets and in a couple of months you'll hear how he's happily/moderately unhappily married and doesn't want to hear from you or he'll offer you an affair forever.

 

If you want any chance with this man, let him go now and come back divorced. If he'd prove to you he's working hard to be with you, I'd be all for holding his hand, but he isn't. He's leading you on, he's leading her on, and his plans involve continuing to stay under the same roof with the ex-W. it simply doesn't compute and you are wasting another year hoping you'll be dating in the open next year.

[veryhappy]

I don't have time to go into detail on all the red flags, but this one it's worth mentioning. This guy wants to make everyone happy. These men do not get divorced. This fantasy that all will be fine and dandy and the exw won't hate their guts after the a and the divorce...unrealistic. The goal would be to be civil long term especially for the kids. He won't be the bad guy and I can tell you excatly who the scapegoat will be. Find the closest mirror and take a good look.

[tornado]

Believe us, we've been there.

[SolG]

I actually don't understand all the incredulity here about separation under one roof :-/ MM's kids are both in early school years. I know a number of couples who've taken this option while the kids are still young to give them added stability. Not a special needs case among them. I would definitely have looked at this if my marriage had ended when my daughter was little. In fact, my xH and I did actually separate under one roof for a year while we sorted the legal division of our finances and assets. I can't see the big deal, unless you seriously can't stand each other. Different strokes...

 

Cutedragon, you are right in that he really would have liked everyone to be 'happy'. And he does realise this is an impossibility. Yes he does want to completely control and manage how his M transitions. He truly believes that by doing this he can minimise the hurt.

 

Oh LSers I absolutely do believe you! I know there are red flags. I am not at all blind. But I love him and am giving him the chance to prove us all wrong. Quite probably he'll do as you all say. But also maybe, just maybe, he'll be different.

 

I choose to hope. Just a little while longer.