Chivalry: want your thoughts

[Grumpybutfun]

I enjoy a car door being open for me when we get to the car but when we arrive I don't wait for him to walk around the car to open the door.

 

You can add this one. On our 2nd or 3rd date my boyfriend walked me to my car. I had a parking ticket. He grabbed it and said he would take care of it. He did not even want me to look at it.

 

 

Gaeta, I am not going to pay for your bad behavior... This is promoting illegal activity.

G

[carhill]

Opening the car door disappeared a while back, but reappears whenever we have a "date" without the kids. Once kids are in the picture, wrangling little ones into the car takes priority over chivalry.

 

Interestingly, this circumstance is how my father taught me the lesson. 'Now son, you open the (car) door for your mother.' I'd do that and then climb in behind dad and pretend I was driving. When one is indoctrinated into such behaviors from before active memory begins, no other way is known. To me, opening a door for a lady was as natural as breathing. Occasionally, I'll still catch myself doing it out in public and am reminded that times have changed! However, elderly ladies are always quite appreciative and I've even gotten a curtsey or two over the decades. Good stuff.

[Haydn]

When i was 19 my chivalry was my undoing. A oldish lady on the tube spilled her oranges onto the floor. I picked them up without thought. She asked me which stop i was alighting at. I said `Ladbroke grove` She asked me if i could get off at Hammersmith, to which i obliged. I spent the next hour holding a very heavy bag laden with fruit along a winding road to a house in Hammersmith. I said yes to every request she made. By the time i got home i was a beaten man. My Gf advances were met by a weak wave of the hand and a quaffing of orange juice.

[ascendotum]

At that time he was not my official boyfriend yet. I think he felt responsible because that date was in his area, I was not familiar with his part of town, I had such a hard time finding parking when I got there so when he saw the ticket he did not even hesitate.

 

If I earned my money really easy I'd pay for the woman's parking fine, but otherwise I think its weird, paying for the night out for her already, then paying a fine on top of that for her carelessness (no offense), to a woman who is basically a stranger and you may never see again. For sure the woman will think its a great gesture (she just got a bonus $70).

 

A number of the things listed by the OP I do find old fashioned, and I'm just not the old fashioned type. Opening doors + help with coat, pay the bill - yeah sure I'm fine with that, but standing up when a woman enters or leaves the room, or guiding her around a room or making sure I must walk in a certain position relative to her is just too old fashioned for me. That's from a by gone era where women were viewed as weak and as 'the little woman' and as fair maidens.

 

I grew up with a feminist mother, and have had independent, resourceful not afraid to get their hands dirty or worry about not looking dainty girlfriends, plus have worked and hung out with many 'you go girl' & 'girls kick ass' women & also uncouth ladettes & party girls. While I do believe in romantic gestures, I'm not really into chivalry except for the basics.

[GravityMan]

Most genuinely chivalrous men are like that naturally. It's second nature to them. Their fathers (and possibly their mothers too) likely began training them on gentlemanly stuff before the age of 10. Also, a sharp woman can tell the difference between a guy who's naturally a gentleman and a guy who TRIES to be a gentleman. The latter guy is likely to come across as forced.

 

Chivalry is one area where it pays off for guys to be competent at reading women and social cues. A guy with above-average intelligence should be able to tell very quickly whether the woman is the type who appreciates chivalry or the type who isn't a fan of that stuff (but still looks favorably upon good manners and courtesy).

[Grumpybutfun]

I guess some would call me old fashioned. Others say respectful and some even chivalrous. Chivalry is a mindset first and foremost. But the obvious manifestation of that mindset are the gestures and behavioral difference that go along with it.

 

By the way, this only pertains to women in social settings. Business behavior is entirely different. This is what I do:

 

1. Open the door for her: I pretty much do this all the time

2. Pull out her chair: Most of the time - situational where appropriate

3. Rise when a lady leaves/comes to the table: Most of the time - situational where appropriate

4. Take her coat/Help her put it on: Situational where appropriate

5. Bus the table (e.g. throw stuff away or remove plates and utensils: Always.

6. Let her walk in front of me: Always. She is either walking next to me or ahead of me. Unless we're hiking.

7. Pay the bill: I always pay the bill on the first date or first few dates.

8. Body positioning: When we walk on the street I will always be on the side between her and traffic or people. Or if she is carrying a purse or a bag I will tend to be on that side. Same with crossing the street - i'm on the side where the traffic is coming from.

9. Hand on small of back: This is very situational but in formal settings or cocktail parties I will do this out of habit.

10. Proffer my arm: Also in formal or slippery situations.

 

Honestly, this is all so automatic that I don't notice I am doing it. So I'm curious, what do other men do? I also would love to hear any thoughts from women on the subject.

 

 

I am on auto too. I open car doors, position my body, carry anything heavy or dirty, pump her gas, pick up the check, and help her with her coat. I usually have her hand and I lead because I am a giant and she is tiny. I don't do these things because she isn't independent or strong, but because in my world these are instilled as manners.

I never had any complaints when dating, only praise and surprise, but I can see for some of these posts that this activity is subjective. Equality imho doesn't have to be the end for kind gestures. Though a woman has every right to be treated like a man if she wants. jk jk

Joining Haydn to chivalrously tip my hat to all the ladies wearing gingham and rosewater,

Grumps

[Targetlock]

Yep, i firmly believe there are certain ways a man should treat a woman, I'm slightly old fashioned and have a certain chivalrous or gentleman way about all my dealings not just with women. i guess it was just the way i was brought up and these are ideals that i like to hold on to.

[kodakgirl]

I would also dispute that chivalry makes a man more attractive. Maybe with a lady of a certain age, but a younger one probably wont even notice.

 

I know for a fact some of the women who've just said they LOVE it are in their 20s. I'm 26. (though I do agree on the standing up at the table thing-- I first saw that on Mad Men and had had no idea it was ever a thing. Loved it, though). In my circles anyway, nothing is going to get the girls going 'awwwwwwwwwwww' more than a recounting of how he wanted to carry my strawberries and walk me to the subway station!

 

If you don't want to do it, though-- don't. You don't have to. If it's forced, that will show. I've found the same thing as GravityMan-- most men who are gentlemanly these days just ARE. They might joke about it (my university class is almost all women, and two of the (three) men are pretty gentlemanly and joke about how they never get to go through doors or exit elevators first) but they wouldn't even want to do it differently. If you aren't like that, that's fine, don't be someone you're not. But that doesn't mean other people aren't like that, and that women don't like it.

Edited April 4, 2014 by kodakgirl
copyediting

[topaMAXX]

Chivalry died with equal rights.

 

Why pay for a girl when she can pay for herself?

 

Sorry, ladies. Most guys think like me....and most women are just fine with that.

[Robert Z]

I don't always stand when a lady sits or stands, but I'm on par with the OP.

 

 

But what most impressed the sb was that I always put down the toilet seat. That is the true mark of a gentleman.

[Phoe]

But what most impressed the sb was that I always put down the toilet seat. That is the true mark of a gentleman.

 

Yes! I'm regularly thrilled about not having to touch the toilet seat with my hands when it's time for me to go.

[Shepp]

I guess some would call me old fashioned. Others say respectful and some even chivalrous. Chivalry is a mindset first and foremost. But the obvious manifestation of that mindset are the gestures and behavioral difference that go along with it.

 

By the way, this only pertains to women in social settings. Business behavior is entirely different. This is what I do:

 

1. Open the door for her: I pretty much do this all the time

2. Pull out her chair: Most of the time - situational where appropriate

3. Rise when a lady leaves/comes to the table: Most of the time - situational where appropriate

4. Take her coat/Help her put it on: Situational where appropriate

5. Bus the table (e.g. throw stuff away or remove plates and utensils: Always.

6. Let her walk in front of me: Always. She is either walking next to me or ahead of me. Unless we're hiking.

7. Pay the bill: I always pay the bill on the first date or first few dates.

8. Body positioning: When we walk on the street I will always be on the side between her and traffic or people. Or if she is carrying a purse or a bag I will tend to be on that side. Same with crossing the street - i'm on the side where the traffic is coming from.

9. Hand on small of back: This is very situational but in formal settings or cocktail parties I will do this out of habit.

10. Proffer my arm: Also in formal or slippery situations.

 

Honestly, this is all so automatic that I don't notice I am doing it. So I'm curious, what do other men do? I also would love to hear any thoughts from women on the subject.

 

I would do almost all of these, I actually do practically none.

 

I think at the end of the day you should be doing these things for your girlfriend, not for yourself! And so you have to adapt it appropriately!

My girlfriend would not be happy if I opened does for her without good reason, she'd give me an earful if I tried to help her put on her coat!

 

So that doesn't mean I don't do things for her I just adapt it, to things she does appreciate or at the very least doesn't really notice - ill guide her through a busy room with my hand on the small other back, i'll offer her my arm when is icy, I'll always keep one eye on her drink as she doesn't understand the concept of not leaving it unattended, I'll charge her phone when I do mine cause I know she forgets, I let her decide and set aside what slices she wants when we order a pizza, I top up her petrol.

 

And funnily enough she has no problem handing me whatever shopping she's carrying with out a second thought!

[Els]

My guy does some of it (the more practical stuff, like letting me walk in front, guiding me around rough spots, paying the bill etc), but some of the other items on your list seem very culture-dependent. It would look incredibly weird in our culture if you rise when a woman arrives but not to greet a fellow man. And I never understood the car door thing - does the woman really sit and wait inside for the guy to walk all the way around and open it for her?

 

But yes, I think it's sweet that he does the things that he does, so the right woman will appreciate what you do for her too.

[Imported]

It usually gets me sex or opens them up to thinking in that manner. Not that that is a goal, its just I notice attitude changes (for the better) directly related to what I do and it has been repeated many times with different girls. Same results.

 

I don't act like its some great burden I am bearing for them, nor do I do some of the things you listed. I am not a saint. It's just if they are with me, I take care of business. I will handle it.

[Silly_Girl]

Husband and I were talking about this as a result of the thread. He's a sweet guy and naturally does some 'chivalrous' things, but then so do I. And we both have friends who are smaller in build than we are and can recall walking through a gang first, or being the nearest one to trouble if out in a bar, because we're the biggest of the pair. We both always try and pay first, regardless of gender or who we're with. And we both think the standing-up for a lady at dinner thing is preposterous In 90%+ of my meetings and working meals I am the only woman and it would really irk me if that were happening.

[FrostBlaze]

I do it on instinct, can't even say i got raised this way, noone told me to do it, or i don't remember it.

 

In my whole life, i think i've got about 10 thank you'z put toghether from girls my age, for holding the door or something similar, t'was random and nice, i don't expect to be thanked, but it's nice when it happens.

Carrying bags also, i always volunteer, actually i just take it out of your hand, tap you on the palm and take it, will say a quick "hand it over"just in case ya don't get it.

 

I only slightly raise from the table to greet if a person in the group is new, just so i can shake their hand, otherwise no i don''t do that.

 

Dated women that didn't like it or seem to appreciate it , just questioned me as to why i do it.

[TAV]

I do it on instinct, can't even say i got raised this way, noone told me to do it, or i don't remember it.

 

In my whole life, i think i've got about 10 thank you'z put toghether from girls my age, for holding the door or something similar, t'was random and nice, i don't expect to be thanked, but it's nice when it happens.

Carrying bags also, i always volunteer, actually i just take it out of your hand, tap you on the palm and take it, will say a quick "hand it over"just in case ya don't get it.

 

I only slightly raise from the table to greet if a person in the group is new, just so i can shake their hand, otherwise no i don''t do that.

 

Dated women that didn't like it or seem to appreciate it , just questioned me as to why i do it.

 

Chivalry and even kindness is rare these days it seems. I usually do not travel very much with public transport in my country but I recently went with the train and the bus. On both occassions there was a young mum with a baby buggy waiting in line too. At the train station there were a lot of men waiting with us. I helped her carry the buggy on board the train. All the men just rushed in to get a seat.

 

At the bus station only my daughter was with me and she was surprised when I helped the young mum; my child commented how kind I was when we sat down. I told her it's normal to reach out and help people who obviously need it but maybe that is the world today. A lot of people are too busy with their own life to notice others, it seems.

 

Both mums were very grateful though!

[FrostBlaze]

I tend to help random people without being asked, if it's something i can do right THEN, often i am just to busy.

Like randomly help a guy push his stuck car (snow). I also make eye contact with people and seem aproachable when walking around town alone, because i always get stopped for directions or asked for help. "how son how you use this atm machine? heres 10$ for showing me" xD.

 

My EX never noticed me do any of these random acts, except once. And she was like "why"?. I didn't know what to tell her at the time, because "why not?"XD.

But she seemed genuinely dissapointed, or maybe it was just me.

 

Often it doesn't pay off for me to be kind or chivalrous, but i still do it.

[man_in_the_box]

A helping hand for the elder, disabled or pregnant is always a nice thing to do. The rest can do basic stuff themselves and I'm not going to pull off a bunch of nonsense just because someone has a vagina. **** that.

 

Besides ofcourse when someone genuinely asks for help but that's a different thing.

[Els]

Yes! I'm regularly thrilled about not having to touch the toilet seat with my hands when it's time for me to go.

 

S'why I use my toes...

[Woggle]

I think equality and chivalry can go hand in hand but we had a time when men would get chewed out and told off for even holding a door. Ask men who lived through the 70s era and they will tell what it was like.

[kodakgirl]

 

In my whole life, i think i've got about 10 thank you'z put toghether from girls my age, for holding the door or something similar, t'was random and nice, i don't expect to be thanked, but it's nice when it happens.

 

That sucks!! I alwayyyys thank people for holding doors (where I live just about everyone at least holds a door they are going through for the person behind them and almost everyone says thank you) and I especially thank guys who open doors for me, every time, even if I've known them years and know they always do it. I always thank fellows I'm dating especially sweetly for carrying things or offering coats or whatever. I feel it's important to thank people in general-- everyone likes to know they aren't being taken for granted.

[Sunfire73]

I do appreciate Chivalry. I'm glad my boyfriend is one, opens doors, do manly stuffs for me, carries my stuff, without even asking. I feel that he do it because he likes to not because i like it. But of course I do appreciate that and like for him to do it as well. We are both working and have kid responsibilities, so the paying for stuff goes both ways. We just don't compute, we just take turns, but i feel that he pays for more and he loves contributing more. Those are not lost, we women, (well me at least) still value Chivalry.

[Robert Z]

Yes! I'm regularly thrilled about not having to touch the toilet seat with my hands when it's time for me to go.

 

 

It only took a couple of episodes of the ex's ass hitting the water at 3AM for me to remember. MAD AS A HORNET!!!

[InnocentMan]

Never understood the whole toilet seat thing. Whoever uses the toilet should put down both the seat and the lid before flushing. It's basic hygiene. Women are equally as guilty as men in that respect.