Chivalry: want your thoughts

[Giggle]

As a naturally independent woman whoever gets to the door first lol. I spent the day with my cousin once and got a talking to because I didn't wait for him to open the doors. Sure its nice to have it happen, but its weird to reposition myself in order for it to happen. I worked on it though cause he's an awesome guy. I could get used to it, its nice =o)

 

I did have a date put his jacket on me, awww!

[Robert Z]

Never understood the whole toilet seat thing.

 

 

 

What about her ass hitting the water didn't you understand? A large percentage of men leave the seat up when their done. The business with closing the lid to flush for hygiene purposes is a fairly recent realization.

[tbf]

Love it! So sweet.

 

You're going to get a lot of heat for posting this since there are many guys who don't want to do this. If nothing else, it will set you apart and above the males who won't.

[Furious]

I was close to nine months pregnant and my Mom insisted she take me baby shopping.

 

We took the streetcar on a hot humid day. It was standing room only. No one offered me a seat. My Mom took matters into her own hands and blasted a young man to give up his seat for me. She got an applause from the other riders.

 

My mom had chivalry.:laugh:

[InnocentMan]

What about her ass hitting the water didn't you understand? A large percentage of men leave the seat up when their done. The business with closing the lid to flush for hygiene purposes is a fairly recent realization.

 

I understood what you were saying, I just think it's a bit much for women to moan about it, when they happily flush the toilet without the lid down, which in reality is a much greater 'offence'. It's not that recent, I've been closing the lid for as long as I can remember. Hopefully this thread will spur a few others to spread the word.

[InnocentMan]

Love it! So sweet.

 

You're going to get a lot of heat for posting this since there are many guys who don't want to do this. If nothing else, it will set you apart and above the males who won't.

 

Yeah, these types are total friendzone material. Women only appreciate this kinda stuff when jaded from a lifetime of dating ignorant *******s. There's a fine balance to strike between being the perfect gent, and a badass.

[Robert Z]

I understood what you were saying, I just think it's a bit much for women to moan about it, when they happily flush the toilet without the lid down, which in reality is a much greater 'offence'. It's not that recent, I've been closing the lid for as long as I can remember. Hopefully this thread will spur a few others to spread the word.

 

 

The first that I ever heard about flush spray was a few years ago.

Flushing Lidless Toilet Sends Spray Of Diarrhea-Causing Bacteria Into The Air: Study

 

I think this is far from being common knowledge.

[tbf]

Yeah, these types are total friendzone material. Women only appreciate this kinda stuff when jaded from a lifetime of dating ignorant *******s. There's a fine balance to strike between being the perfect gent, and a badass.

OP, are you paying attention to the social shaming attempts? Your actions threaten them.

[InnocentMan]

The first that I ever heard about flush spray was a few years ago.

Flushing Lidless Toilet Sends Spray Of Diarrhea-Causing Bacteria Into The Air: Study

 

I think this is far from being common knowledge.

 

I must be ahead of my time time then. I just worked it out through a logical process of wondering what the lid was for. I also recall watching a documentary about it, must be at least 10 years ago. I do agree that it isn't as yet common knowledge. I know people that still struggle with the washing of the hands concept after a visit.

[Grumpybutfun]

My guy does some of it (the more practical stuff, like letting me walk in front, guiding me around rough spots, paying the bill etc), but some of the other items on your list seem very culture-dependent. It would look incredibly weird in our culture if you rise when a woman arrives but not to greet a fellow man. And I never understood the car door thing - does the woman really sit and wait inside for the guy to walk all the way around and open it for her?

 

But yes, I think it's sweet that he does the things that he does, so the right woman will appreciate what you do for her too.

 

I had to laugh when you said that about waiting for the man to come get you out of the car...yeah, my wife is a hummingbird, she doesn't wait long for anything so yeah, I have never actually opened her car door when exiting, just when putting her in safely. That was only expected by the elderly in my experience. My grandmother would have sat in the car all day if someone hadn't "received" her out of it. As for standing when a woman enters or stands up....I am in the Deep South of the states and I have never seen that practiced. Ever.

I open car doors for my daughters, always have, and so they laugh about how they stand at their door waiting and waiting on dates, blaming me for setting up unrealistic expectations. They are joking btw.

I don't expect my daughters to be with guys like me. I am a dinosaur with regards to my ideas on chivalry and overprotectiveness. My wife loves it but then she was never protected in her entire early life so I think I got the perfect girl for me. That is the caveat I have always put forth to my son, most of how we raised him may not be accepted by girls his age...he has to be aware of signals and be respectful of a woman's opinion as they might not see it as respectful but degrading. He maintains, as I did, that such women aren't who he wants to date then. He has successful LTRs and a plentiful dating life so he must not be ostracized for his behavior even as young as he is.

There is no one whose counsel or abilities I respect more than my wife's in every matter under the heavens so if I open a few doors or pump her gas, it is because I value her, not because I think she can't do such things.

Grumps

[Eggplant]

If I were a man, I would be particularly mindful of chivalry and around the woman's family. In my family, when new people arrive at a gathering, the men all stand up. When my cousin's fiancé didn't follow suit, the whole family gossiped about it behind his back. Similarly, people in my family always note under their breath whether their guest got the door for his wife or girlfriend. Little gestures make a big impression.

[Targetlock]

sometimes it really is the little things that help you read a person.

[Robert Z]

I must be ahead of my time time then. I just worked it out through a logical process of wondering what the lid was for.

 

 

 

Haha, a good conclusion based on a false premise. They have been putting lids on toilets far longer than we have known anything about flush spray.

 

 

I have to admit that I love spoiling a woman, which includes opening doors etc. I guess that is part of what helped me dig such a deep hole in my marriage. But if the woman is appreciative it's all good. The sb likes me to spoil her. But at some point she will tell me to sit down and let her do whatever might be the task at hand. And then she spoils me.

 

 

So what is the counterbalance to chivalry? Ring in the traditional roles for women, right? This is what was lacking in my marriage. She wanted to be spoiled but never wanted to show any effort in return. So this is my suggestion to women. If you are going to allow a man to spoil you and be a gentleman, then show him respect and don't be afraid of labels. I think my ex was so screwed up by women's lib that she thought doing anything for someone else was subservient and degrading. In other words, it was beneath her to be generous and giving.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Robert Z

[Els]

I had to laugh when you said that about waiting for the man to come get you out of the car...yeah, my wife is a hummingbird, she doesn't wait long for anything so yeah, I have never actually opened her car door when exiting, just when putting her in safely. That was only expected by the elderly in my experience. My grandmother would have sat in the car all day if someone hadn't "received" her out of it. As for standing when a woman enters or stands up....I am in the Deep South of the states and I have never seen that practiced. Ever.

I open car doors for my daughters, always have, and so they laugh about how they stand at their door waiting and waiting on dates, blaming me for setting up unrealistic expectations. They are joking btw.

I don't expect my daughters to be with guys like me. I am a dinosaur with regards to my ideas on chivalry and overprotectiveness. My wife loves it but then she was never protected in her entire early life so I think I got the perfect girl for me. That is the caveat I have always put forth to my son, most of how we raised him may not be accepted by girls his age...he has to be aware of signals and be respectful of a woman's opinion as they might not see it as respectful but degrading. He maintains, as I did, that such women aren't who he wants to date then. He has successful LTRs and a plentiful dating life so he must not be ostracized for his behavior even as young as he is.

 

Aww, they'll be fine! My SO and I are both in our 20s (although we do feel like dinosaurs at times regardless), and he's been a gentleman since he was a wee teenager. I'm sure your kids will find compatible partners.

[Audieme]

My father has 5 daughters, no sons. He reamed out my senior HS prom date for not opening the car door for me as we left the house for the dance. When my sister's boyfriend refused to take his hat off when meeting my grandfather, he was no longer welcome at the house (he didn't last long as a boyfriend). Lord help the boyfriend who didn't shake my father's hand when entering our home (it didn't have to be a firm handshake, the boy just needed to make the effort). My father was BIG on teaching us table manners and what to expect from men in regards to etiquette and speech. I'm in my early thirties and I very much appreciate chivalry, especially opening doors. I would never make a man feel awkward doing these things for me; I tend to like the men that do this, makes me feel they have nice parents who taught them well. Big thumbs up!

[Silly_Girl]

I've been biting my lip as it surprises me how differently I feel to the majority...

 

I have spent 22 years fighting and working to be recognised as an equal in male-dominated work environments.

 

This leaves me feeling patronised if I am treated as (what I perceive as) 'fragile' or 'incapable' by virtue of my gender. I consider myself a team member, whether at home with my family, at work or within my relationship. I enjoy that approach. We do things for each other, we're each better at different things and that's to be celebrated.

 

It honestly dumbfounds me that holding doors open is referred to in the context of chivalry. Should all women storm through doorways and let the door go on to others, and expect the men around them to see to it? No A lot of the chivalrous deeds listed just seem quite impractical to me. If my husband and I were out with our kids for dinner, and each of us were leaving the table to fetch something, take a child to the bathroom, attend to a baby etc, how utterly impractical it would be for him to rise from the table, or pull out my chair!

 

I genuinely, sincerely have a mental block as to why it's 'nice' - and to be appreciated - for a guy to do polite/helpful things for a woman, and yet not have the same expectation from the female. Or man to man. Or woman to woman. PERSON to PERSON, essentially. I don't get it, can't respect it and find it daft. Isn't that odd when there are posters in this thread who I almost always agree with and respect yet they hold the opposite view to me?

[Els]

I've been biting my lip as it surprises me how differently I feel to the majority...

 

I have spent 22 years fighting and working to be recognised as an equal in male-dominated work environments.

 

This leaves me feeling patronised if I am treated as (what I perceive as) 'fragile' or 'incapable' by virtue of my gender. I consider myself a team member, whether at home with my family, at work or within my relationship. I enjoy that approach. We do things for each other, we're each better at different things and that's to be celebrated.

 

It honestly dumbfounds me that holding doors open is referred to in the context of chivalry. Should all women storm through doorways and let the door go on to others, and expect the men around them to see to it? No A lot of the chivalrous deeds listed just seem quite impractical to me. If my husband and I were out with our kids for dinner, and each of us were leaving the table to fetch something, take a child to the bathroom, attend to a baby etc, how utterly impractical it would be for him to rise from the table, or pull out my chair!

 

I genuinely, sincerely have a mental block as to why it's 'nice' - and to be appreciated - for a guy to do polite/helpful things for a woman, and yet not have the same expectation from the female. Or man to man. Or woman to woman. PERSON to PERSON, essentially. I don't get it, can't respect it and find it daft. Isn't that odd when there are posters in this thread who I almost always agree with and respect yet they hold the opposite view to me?

 

Men and women should absolutely be helpful and polite to each other on a platonic basis, and treat each other as equals in the workplace.

 

Romantic relationships add another level on to that though, and for some people gender roles do play a part in that other level. Nothing wrong with that. A woman would want her colleague to ask her permission for anything important and not touch her; but most women would not want their husband to ask for their permission respectfully each and every time before they have sex! A man would want his female colleague to do the exact same things as he does at work, but in his relationships he might prefer a woman who doesn't do the exact same things he does, or even a SAHM.

 

The same goes with chivalry. IMO there are two levels - the first being basic politeness that should be shown to all (and especially the elderly and infirm), and the second being part of a romantic relationship (which, yes, typically involves the man offering gestures above and beyond simple politeness). If it isn't your cup of tea, nothing wrong with that either, it's just a matter of preference.

[Silly_Girl]

Elswyth, I get that romantic relationships are different. It's why we give each other massages or stroke the other one's hair, or pick up a favourite sport magazine when we're at the petrol station. I just don't understand why the man is expected to attain a higher standard than the woman.

 

You say: "which, yes, typically involves the man offering gestures above and beyond simple politeness".

 

Why the man? Surely it's both?

 

I promise I'm not being deliberately ignorant...

[gaius]

I generally don't try and trip over myself to be chivalrous. If I get to the door first I'll open it, seat first I'll pull it out, etc etc. But no great effort is made to get there first. Other than being paid for chivalry doesn't seem to be a huge sexual turn on for most women I've run into. Despite what they say.

[Els]

Elswyth, I get that romantic relationships are different. It's why we give each other massages or stroke the other one's hair, or pick up a favourite sport magazine when we're at the petrol station. I just don't understand why the man is expected to attain a higher standard than the woman.

 

You say: "which, yes, typically involves the man offering gestures above and beyond simple politeness".

 

Why the man? Surely it's both?

 

I promise I'm not being deliberately ignorant...

 

It's not a 'higher standard', it's just different.

 

Same as why I sometimes wear sexy lingerie in the bedroom, but my SO doesn't own any.

 

I guess what I meant to say was, both people go 'above and beyond' in Rs, but in different ways. Just that the term 'chivalry' is used to describe some of the things that the man does.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Elswyth

[Silly_Girl]

It's not a 'higher standard', it's just different.

 

Same as why I sometimes wear sexy lingerie in the bedroom, but my SO doesn't own any.

 

I guess what I meant to say was, both people go 'above and beyond' in Rs, but in different ways. Just that the term 'chivalry' is used to describe some of the things that the man does.

 

I'm still confused. I think it *is* a higher standard. The posts on the thread seem to suggest more is expected from the guys, so I would say more = higher expectations.

 

What's the female version of chivalry? Is there really such a thing?

 

Why do people want or need male chivalry? Why does a woman enjoy a car door being opened for her when chances are, she drives herself around on most journeys and opening a car door is an everyday, routine part of her existence?

 

I sometimes dress up, but then there are combos that I have my man wear for me

[Els]

I'm still confused. I think it *is* a higher standard. The posts on the thread seem to suggest more is expected from the guys, so I would say more = higher expectations.

 

I think more is expected from the man in this one particular aspect out of many, yes. Similarly the standards for a polished appearance for women are higher, or at least take more time and effort. Of course, there are folks who just disregard all of those roles and do what they like, and that's fine too. Personally I enjoy falling in the middle of the spectrum.

 

Why do people want or need male chivalry? Why does a woman enjoy a car door being opened for her when chances are, she drives herself around on most journeys and opening a car door is an everyday, routine part of her existence?

 

I can't comment on the car doors (as I said, never understood that bit), but as for the rest, I find it a sweet gesture. My SO is also perfectly capable of fixing himself a drink after work, but when I get one for him he smiles and says, "Thank you", not, "I can do this myself."

[xxoo]

I'm still confused. I think it *is* a higher standard. The posts on the thread seem to suggest more is expected from the guys, so I would say more = higher expectations.

 

What's the female version of chivalry? Is there really such a thing?

 

Why do people want or need male chivalry? Why does a woman enjoy a car door being opened for her when chances are, she drives herself around on most journeys and opening a car door is an everyday, routine part of her existence?

 

I sometimes dress up, but then there are combos that I have my man wear for me

 

The female counterpart is letting him be chivalrous. Letting him play the role of Big Protective Man. He gets off on it, I get off on it (playing the Precious Adored role). Gets the sex hormones flowing.

[Silly_Girl]

I think more is expected from the man in this one particular aspect out of many, yes. Similarly the standards for a polished appearance for women are higher, or at least take more time and effort. Of course, there are folks who just disregard all of those roles and do what they like, and that's fine too. Personally I enjoy falling in the middle of the spectrum.

 

 

 

I can't comment on the car doors (as I said, never understood that bit), but as for the rest, I find it a sweet gesture. My SO is also perfectly capable of fixing himself a drink after work, but when I get one for him he smiles and says, "Thank you", not, "I can do this myself."

 

I know the car door one isn't good, as it's not a thing for you personally, but the way I see it is if 2 people are off out in the car, they both need to get in. To do simultaneously would make most sense to me, rather than one sitting in and waiting for the other. That's farcical, to me. And why the man?

 

Fixing a drink after work... I haven't heard of that being a 'female' task (not that you've said it is), it's something either gender might do, I'd have thought, and - unlike the car door scenario - it's probably easier for one person to do both if you're otherwise going to be in the same space or accessing the same bottles etc. so it just makes practical sense to me, it's logical.

[Silly_Girl]

The female counterpart is letting him be chivalrous. Letting him play the role of Big Protective Man. He gets off on it, I get off on it (playing the Precious Adored role). Gets the sex hormones flowing.

 

But I like to adore my man too... And I like to be supported but not protected. That's why chivalry doesn't work for me.

 

Sounds simple like that