Women, do you wonder why men won't approach you?

[tlegend]

Found this posting of someone ranting in an online source. Won't give credit as it's anonymous, but after reading it, it made a lot of sense. Kudos to the stranger who wrote it.

 

 

The first post was from a woman who was sick of men not hitting on her in public.

 

"And you sit around miserable, wondering how come you've been single

so

long, or what's wrong with you....

Or maybe you're hung up on your psycho ex who's too busy for you. Making decent women look bad is pretty time consuming, apparently.

 

Well, get off your ass and ask out the next ringless woman that you find attractive. Everyone knows online dating sucks. But it's also made men a little cowardly. Time to man-up.

 

Some of us ladies are mildly

old

-fashioned. We want a guy with the balls to make the effort. We miss making connections in more organic ways. And truly, even if you're rejected... you just made someone's day (assuming you didn't use the caveman approach). That's sort of a random act of kindness, if you ask me...

 

And some of the strong, beautiful women are just as lonely as you. You can't say we're cold if you quit trying just because you tossed the dice a few times and didn't win. The best women, the ones you really want... those are just as rare as the best men. We can't tell if you're one of the good ones or not. The odds would indicate that it's unlikely.

 

But fortune is certainly fickle. You never know.

 

Maybe she's getting off that crowded train, heading for the nearest cup of coffee before plunging into another dreaded week at work... put a smile on her face before she gets there."

 

 

----

 

A man's response:

 

"That's easy to say if you're the person just waiting for some attention, not the one making the effort and taking the risk.

 

Like most women, you assume that if a man is single, he must be lonely, miserable, frightened and/or obsessive. Your argument assumes there are all these men out there who would approach the strong, beautiful ice queen getting off the train, except they're too lonely, too miserable, too scared, too obsessed with their ex.

 

Like most women, you also assume there are absolutely no risks to hitting on a woman in public. "Just toss the dice and give it a try. What can it hurt? Just keep trying." That's easy to say if you're not the person taking any risks. And there are significant risks to hitting on women in public.

 

1. If she's approached at work by someone who displays a romantic interest, she can report the guy to HR for harassment. The guy gets fired, no questions asked. Don't believe it? Go report a guy to HR for harassment and watch what happens to the guy, regardless of whether the accusation has any merit.

 

2. She can report the guy to the police for harassment. Don't believe me? Call the police and watch what happens to the guy, regardless of whether the accusation has any merit.

 

3. Her boyfriend/jealous ex-lover/

FWB

is in the next seat over. Or waiting for the bench press. Or on the next aisle over.

 

4. If it's at work, she tells other people, who then mock you, or you get a rep as a player. Then it's awkward every time you have to deal with her after that.

 

5. If it's outside work, and you have mutual friends, she tells other people, posts online about your pathetic attempt, and you get mocked, or you get a rep as a player. Then it's awkward every time you have to deal with her after that.

 

6. It takes many weeks or months of time, money, and effort to pursue a woman to the point where it actually can develop into a committed relationship. All the while she's getting attention from other men, probably sleeping with other men, and trying to decide if she can do better. It's not just the risk of "asking her out" the one time. It's many hours, $$$$$$$$$, and emotional investment all down the drain when she gets bored, finds someone she thinks is an upgrade, or otherwise changes her mind.

 

7. She turns out to be an emotionally unstable, vindictive stalker, and you still have to see her on the train, at work, in the gym, at yoga class, at the coffee shop, at your friend's house.

--

 

As the person just sitting there waiting to be approached, waiting for someone else to take all the risks, doubtless most of these possibilities don't occur to you. Or you don't care.

 

Maybe all the men who avoid hitting on women in public aren't lonely, miserable, scared, and obsessed with their exes. Maybe they're avoiding that situation by choice. Maybe they know better. Maybe they're perfectly happy without you in their lives.

 

Of course you'd like to believe that all these men would want to talk with you and ask you out, except they're too lonely, too miserable, and too scared. But is that really the case? Or is that just what you want to believe because it makes you feel better? You're not the problem. You're not the reason men won't approach you. Men are the problem. They're just sitting around, lonely, miserable, obsessed with their ex, and petrified with fear."

 

 

As random as this post is, I thought that this would give a little perspective as to WHY men avoid going after someone they might be interested in...sometimes.

[Keenly]

Its brutally honest, especially since the woman thinks that she is the coolest thing since sliced bread. She also is a firm believer in the completely outdated stereotype of the woman sitting on her ass playing helpless damsil while doing absolutely no work or putting in any effort whatsoever, and then she has the stones to COMPLAIN that no one is doing the work for her.

 

 

I couldn't write comedy better than this.

[kodakgirl]

I don't know. I understand why men hesitate to approach women, but I think the man is catastrophizing... sure these things are possible, but I don't think they are at all likely. He also seems to think very little of women, which bothers me. Number 6 especially-- nothing to do with approaching, just a lot of bitterness. I do agree with him that it is perfectly reasonable for men to make a choice not to approach women without it reflecting badly on them, but at the same time he seems so risk-averse I don't see how he'd succeed in any other romantic contexts either. Love takes some risks, from both sides.

 

I don't love the woman's angle either, because even a mildly old-fashioned girl can take the leap of starting off a conversation (and make the man's day with her 'random act of kindness'). I think men and women should both just stop whining about how it's hard and risky and BOTH just start smiling at that person just getting off a crowded train....

[Chocolat]

Hmmm. Maybe this is a generational thing. My experience is that men approach me all the time. Not in a lusty, creepy way, but in a friendly way. Conversation ensues and, sometimes, so does the exchange of numbers.

 

Not sure why it is so fraught...

[Strength in Healing]

2. She can report the guy to the police for harassment. Don't believe me? Call the police and watch what happens to the guy, regardless of whether the accusation has any merit.

As someone who is a law enforcement agent, I have to comment on this, as it's clearly a misconception. First off, harassment is harassment, and there are elements that have to be met. We cannot do a damn thing unless the elements are met, and harassment has NOTHING to do with the sex. I've seen women get pegged with this, as well as men.

 

But I have a feeling what that person is describing is assault (or if the elements apply, domestic violence). What constitutes this is if someone calls and says they are even AFRAID their partner is going to hurt them. That is assault (or DV if elements apply as earlier stated).

 

What that person misunderstands, however, is we have to ARREST ALWAYS, but it is NOT gender related. If a man calls saying he fears his wife (or gf, whatever) is going to attack him, or DID attack him, we have to arrest her.

 

 

It's just the law. Has nothing to do if it is a man or a woman who calls in fear, we arrest the other.

[GorillaTheater]

To the man: get over it. Being turned down by a woman will be very low on the list of Bad Things That Will Happen To You In Your Life. You want something? Get off your ass and go after it.

 

To the woman: at a minimum indicate some damn interest. Smile at him when he looks your way. Give him a little encouragement. You want something? Get off your ass and go after it.

[tlegend]

As someone who is a law enforcement agent, I have to comment on this, as it's clearly a misconception. First off, harassment is harassment, and there are elements that have to be met. We cannot do a damn thing unless the elements are met, and harassment has NOTHING to do with the sex. I've seen women get pegged with this, as well as men.

 

But I have a feeling what that person is describing is assault (or if the elements apply, domestic violence). What constitutes this is if someone calls and says they are even AFRAID their partner is going to hurt them. That is assault (or DV if elements apply as earlier stated).

 

What that person misunderstands, however, is we have to ARREST ALWAYS, but it is NOT gender related. If a man calls saying he fears his wife (or gf, whatever) is going to attack him, or DID attack him, we have to arrest her.

 

 

It's just the law. Has nothing to do if it is a man or a woman who calls in fear, we arrest the other.

 

I would like to comment on your post with my own experiences.

 

I broke up with a woman on my birthday little under a decade ago.

She showed up at MY work and then went on doing damage to MY car, with no interaction from me.

I witnessed this outside my office window and called the police. She saw me calling the police (at this point, I was at the door with 911 on the phone.) She figured out I called the police, so as she tried to drive away, she tried to hit me with her car. (I had witnesses). SHE LEFT WITH NO MARKINGS. (As in, there were no marks on her at all, from anything.)

 

About 30 minutes the later, the police travel the 2 city blocks it took to get to my office. When they showed up, they took my statement. My statement (BACKED WITH WITNESSES) was different than my ex girlfriends. Since the testimony was DIFFERENT, even with witnesses, they were forced to take someone to jail. Sure, it's not GENDER RELATED, but it's defined as "arrest the one who has more potential to hurt the other individual" was what the cop told me as HE ARRESTED ME. I spent 24+ hours in jail, no bail, on 2nd degree assault and battery charges.

 

The charges were dropped the next day as THERE WAS NO ASSAULT, I didn't even come within 20 yards of her other than almost getting hit by her as she exited the parking lot. (911 recording CLEARLY has sounds of tires screeching as I'm yelling "this bitch just tried to run me over".)

 

So, as you may be in law enforcement, it usually doesn't go down like you describe. Maybe you live in a rural area? Or a small town?

 

However, she came to MY work, damaged MY car, made an attempt on MY life while trying to leave, I called the police, and I got taken to jail. That's the reality of how **** works out in the city in my experience, not the textbook way you are describing.

Edited April 4, 2014 by tlegend

[Grumpybutfun]

To the man: get over it. Being turned down by a woman will be very low on the list of Bad Things That Will Happen To You In Your Life. You want something? Get off your ass and go after it.

 

To the woman: at a minimum indicate some damn interest. Smile at him when he looks your way. Give him a little encouragement. You want something? Get off your ass and go after it.

 

I was typically a woman then...I saw someone interesting, smiled and made eye contact and they approached me.... I never knew due to my penis I had to do the approaching, though I did enjoy the challenges of doing so. My best and most fun approach was eye contact, smile shyly, and say "I am not good at this so pretend I said something witty and pretend I am exactly your type and agree to go out with me out of pity for my ineptness and hideousness."

 

G

[Keenly]

That's a brutal story... that enrages me to the very core. When it comes to domestic issues, cops often arrest the man no matter what, including on your case, when a woman makes an attempt on the mans life, the man is still arrested. Especially when the woman... with her " weakness and helplessness " starts fake crying to manipulate everyone against the man. It happens far top often both with police and with general social interaction.

 

It makes me sick that we are all truly not treated as equals.

[Strength in Healing]

Damn, tlegend, that girl is freaking INSANE. The laws have changed drastically though, brother, plus that cop could have VERY well been an idiot.

 

By law, we don't arrest based on who has more potential to cause damage -- it is sometimes affected by who HAS more damage TO them, but that only becomes a factor if both individuals point to the other saying it was the OTHER one who did it.

 

I can tell you this day and age, if a woman tries to run you over and people witness it, you certainly aren't going to get arrested. Her ass is done.

 

 

And keenly, I don't know where that's coming from, but that's certainly not how it works in the real world, at least with police here in Pittsburgh.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Strength in Healing

[tlegend]

Damn, tlegend, that girl is freaking INSANE. The laws have changed drastically though, brother, plus that cop could have VERY well been an idiot.

 

By law, we don't arrest based on who has more potential to cause damage -- it is sometimes affected by who HAS more damage TO them, but that only becomes a factor if both individuals point to the other saying it was the OTHER one who did it.

 

I can tell you this day and age, if a woman tries to run you over and people witness it, you certainly aren't going to get arrested. Her ass is done.

 

 

And keenly, I don't know where that's coming from, but that's certainly not how it works in the real world, at least with police here in Pittsburgh.

 

I wouldn't go as far as to call her insane, but she was extremely emotional at the time. My call to the police was to save my car, and her rage was because I broke up with her on my bday...just after she bought me a present apparently.

 

As far as how the cops would handle the same situation in "today's day and age", I sincerely believe it would be handled the exact same way. I've learned my mistake in calling the police and DV charges. Just. Don't. Do. It.

 

This happened maybe 8-9 years ago? Things haven't changed THAT much. Either way, I'm not trying to say anything here, except for the fact that what you said "should" have happened, simply doesn't.

[Strength in Healing]

the fact that what you said "should" have happened, simply doesn't.

 

It sure does when I get the call. Some police are idiots though, you know. Not every department requires a bachelor's. Lol

[tlegend]

It sure does when I get the call. Some police are idiots though, you know. Not every department requires a bachelor's. Lol

 

This is true =)

 

I hope, should something ever like this happen to me again, that the dispatcher calls you instead of the guy who booked me and laughed while fingerprinting me. (Not rudely laughed, he laughed because he felt bad that he had to take me to jail. Not only that, but I had to be carted around in a tiny ass mobile-jail with prison inmates to my court hearing, only to hear "Your case has been dismissed without prejudice".)

 

Either way, thats the last time I've ever called the cops. Ever.

[TXGuy]

 

However, she came to MY work, damaged MY car, made an attempt on MY life while trying to leave, I called the police, and I got taken to jail. That's the reality of how **** works out in the city in my experience, not the textbook way you are describing.

 

Yes. Cops are the biggest white knights out there. If there is any way imaginable to pin something on the man rather than the woman, they will.

 

Of course if a cop is accused of domestic violence (and they have one of the highest incidences sorted by profession), they are afforded special procedures not available to citizen joe.

[Woggle]

Men have been trained to leave women alone and that is why they don't approach women much anymore.

[Eggplant]

I would like to comment on your post with my own experiences.

 

I broke up with a woman on my birthday little under a decade ago.

She showed up at MY work and then went on doing damage to MY car, with no interaction from me.

I witnessed this outside my office window and called the police. She saw me calling the police (at this point, I was at the door with 911 on the phone.) She figured out I called the police, so as she tried to drive away, she tried to hit me with her car. (I had witnesses). SHE LEFT WITH NO MARKINGS. (As in, there were no marks on her at all, from anything.)

 

About 30 minutes the later, the police travel the 2 city blocks it took to get to my office. When they showed up, they took my statement. My statement (BACKED WITH WITNESSES) was different than my ex girlfriends. Since the testimony was DIFFERENT, even with witnesses, they were forced to take someone to jail. Sure, it's not GENDER RELATED, but it's defined as "arrest the one who has more potential to hurt the other individual" was what the cop told me as HE ARRESTED ME. I spent 24+ hours in jail, no bail, on 2nd degree assault and battery charges.

 

The charges were dropped the next day as THERE WAS NO ASSAULT, I didn't even come within 20 yards of her other than almost getting hit by her as she exited the parking lot. (911 recording CLEARLY has sounds of tires screeching as I'm yelling "this bitch just tried to run me over".)

 

So, as you may be in law enforcement, it usually doesn't go down like you describe. Maybe you live in a rural area? Or a small town?

 

However, she came to MY work, damaged MY car, made an attempt on MY life while trying to leave, I called the police, and I got taken to jail. That's the reality of how **** works out in the city in my experience, not the textbook way you are describing.

 

What the h***? This is outrageous. No, this cannot be how the justice system is supposed to work. That fact that you're physically stronger than her should not mean that any time there is a conflict between you you go to jail just for safety. I can't believe it.

[Eggplant]

No, I wonder why they do approach.

[Strength in Healing]

Last time I approached she and her friends said I wasn't attractive enough.

 

Wow, I would start messing with their ego's real fast if I were you. Say you actually approached them because they looked pretty lonely and you felt bad.

[SJC2008]

Women are the ones who are pursued and men know this. We're just another horse in the stable mind you if I ***** up it's gonna be a while before I get another number. I have a friend who had a breakup almost a year ago and he's talking to the sixth women he's met since then. He's yet to reel one in. Women have options and if a mand doesn't fall perfectly into her window there will be another one along shortly. Call it an excuse or whatever you want to. I have admited to shyness and have confidence issues but the aformentioned plays just as big a part in deterring me from even trying.

[jothebo41]

I don't know. I understand why men hesitate to approach women, but I think the man is catastrophizing... sure these things are possible, but I don't think they are at all likely. He also seems to think very little of women, which bothers me. Number 6 especially-- nothing to do with approaching, just a lot of bitterness. I do agree with him that it is perfectly reasonable for men to make a choice not to approach women without it reflecting badly on them, but at the same time he seems so risk-averse I don't see how he'd succeed in any other romantic contexts either. Love takes some risks, from both sides.

 

I don't love the woman's angle either, because even a mildly old-fashioned girl can take the leap of starting off a conversation (and make the man's day with her 'random act of kindness'). I think men and women should both just stop whining about how it's hard and risky and BOTH just start smiling at that person just getting off a crowded train....

 

If you have a problem with #6, then look at the women. Do you know how many dates I've paid for in my 23 short years, 95%+ she didn't even offer to pay? Do you know how much 'effort' I have put in just to be phased out for the exact same reasons he said?? Be real here. Women (like you even alluded to!!) are not angels at all. Most, when you meet them initially, are highly manipulative and misleading.

 

My mom and my aunt said this simultaneously about young, modern women one time (both are in early 50s and have been married 25+ years)

 

-"This is a problem. The first truly liberated generation (roughly '85 onwards) of women in modern america, were kids for the Disney golden age of princes and princesses and hit puberty during the golden age of MTV and reality; what have we done to these females, they are so impressionable"?

Edited April 5, 2014 by jothebo41

[ltjg45]

This thread is an excellent reminder to me as to why I outright refuse to cold approach a woman in public.

 

Like I said before, if a woman wants me to approach, she would need to give me at least a smile and eye contact minimum for that to happen. If I don't see it, I won't approach her.

 

Stories like tlegend and what I have seen around me is a cruel reminder of what I have to be concerned about if I make a "mistake" in the dating game. Women here have all of the cards in this game and, if I can help it, I will do whatever I can to keep her from using those cards against me.

[kodakgirl]

If you have a problem with #6, then look at the women. Do you know how many dates I've paid for in my 23 short years, 95%+ she didn't even offer to pay? Do you know how much 'effort' I have put in just to be phased out for the exact same reasons he said?? Be real here. Women (like you even alluded to!!) are not angels at all. Most, when you meet them initially, are highly manipulative and misleading.

 

My mom and my aunt said this simultaneously about young, modern women one time (both are in early 50s and have been married 25+ years)

 

-"This is a problem. The first truly liberated generation (roughly '85 onwards) of women in modern america, were kids for the Disney golden age of princes and princesses and hit puberty during the golden age of MTV and reality; what have we done to these females, they are so impressionable"?

 

I am genuinely sorry that has been your experience; that sucks. I have no doubt some women are like that, unfortunately. But some women aren't "women." I'm 26, so squarely in that generation, and the women I know aren't like that. I personally ALWAYS offer to pay, and I absolutely will if he lets me (I always take out cash specifically beforehand, too, to make it easier). They pretty much never do. I am always so sweet and genuine and open in dating that I verge on overdoing it (even though it's all natural, I'm not trying to try too hard even if it seems like it). My best friends are all very similar. Most of my friends have great partners with mutual appreciation and adoration. I don't want to deny the reality of your experiences and your social world, but I don't want anyone to deny mine, either. Neither men nor women should be sainted or demonized. Sometimes it's frustrating and that frustration skews our vision, but let's make an effort to correct that, eh? Sometimes, honestly, I feel "men just take great women for granted"-- but then I go, seriously Kodakgirl, just look at all the great women you know with men who don't take them for granted... cut it out. So I do, because I don't want to be trapped in a bitter world constructed from my own skewed emotions. I want to live in the real world, and see men as individual human beings, each with their own life trajectories and feelings and fears. I don't know why anyone would choose differently.

 

Anyway, in my post I flat-out said women should be making efforts too. Yes it's hard and yes it can be scary but life involves taking chances, and I believe love is worth the most chances (and I practice what I preach, even if it's a constant battle with my own shyness). Dating is hard but we're in it together, men and women.

[Radu]

I did approaching in public before, cold ones too.

Most of the time i got rejected or no attention was payed to me.

One time, i got spit on; she probably was angry from something else but still ...

 

After that i took a break, this came just a few months before some other stuff happened [both in my relationships and many relatives/friends got Divorced by their wives for not many reasons] and i have been off women for ... it's getting close to 4yrs now.

 

In the last yr or so, i've had some opportunities for approaching, i saw some ladies who tried to give me a nudge of sorts towards approaching them.

One thing i've noticed lately is that their personality is heavily seen in the way they dress/have their hair.

For one thing, stay away from girls with pony tails who have it angled upwards, 45 degrees or so. They tend to be very stuck up, very self-centered.

 

Also, from my experience i can tell you that men generally are not good at reading ppl.

While it is still customary for them to approach, if you are a woman, you should give him a nudge, smile for a little, do some eye contact, etc ...

The point is that if we know we are welcomed, we will try, but otherwise why should we set ourselves up for most of the stuff in the OP ?

Edited April 5, 2014 by Radu

[hotpotato]

If you have a problem with #6, then look at the women. Do you know how many dates I've paid for in my 23 short years, 95%+ she didn't even offer to pay? Do you know how much 'effort' I have put in just to be phased out for the exact same reasons he said?? Be real here. Women (like you even alluded to!!) are not angels at all. Most, when you meet them initially, are highly manipulative and misleading.

 

 

Maybe some better screening is in order.

[Phoe]

I think both sides of the story in the original post are a bit overly extreme.

 

I can see where the woman is coming from, having been the woman who never got approached, but would've been happy to chat with a nice guy who approached me, it would've made my day. I was always more than willing and receptive to the idea of men POLITELY approaching me. (note I said polite. Screaming "CALIENTE! Damn girl booty!" at me as I'm walking through a parking lot wearing my work uniform will never be accepted).

 

 

Yes, I always wondered WHY men weren't approaching me. Why no one ever asked for my number or asked me on a date. I knew that some of it had to do with me needing to put forth more effort. I needed to be the one making a move and approaching too. Of course, I was incredibly fearful and just a handful of rejections put me on failure mode, where I no longer wished to try. And of course, there was that old-fashioned side of me that wanted to be approached.

 

 

And from the man's view, yeah, it's way overly presumptuous of the woman too assume the man is just too lonely, too miserable, too scared or obsessed with an ex. The "go ahead and just keep rolling the dice, come on it's easy" attitude is not okay. I KNOW that it is not fun at all trying to date and when you approach someone and get shot down, it's not fun to brush it off and continue on. There's no reason for a woman to assume that any man should feel the need to approach her, but is scared. Perhaps the man really is just fine and has no desire to approach her.

 

 

I think both sides can gain some insight and understand a bit more from this though.

 

 

 

 

On the note of work related dating and risk of HR - yes, women can get excessive with the reporting, and I think that's really a shame, BUT there's also that double edged sword that because women cry wolf so much with "harassment", when REAL harassment happens, it gets tossed aside.

 

 

I got sexually harassed by a coworker. He grabbed my breast. I immediately reported him to my manager, who immediately called HR. Customers witnessed the incident. Other coworkers witnessed the incident. It was caught on camera. When HR investigated the report and asked him for his side of the story he said that grabbing my breast was an accident, he didn't mean to do it, and he was sorry. And that was that. It was dropped. The company did not fire him. And now a year later I am STILL working in that same building with the same man who physically sexually harassed me.

 

 

I hate it. I hate that I have my stomach in knots every day that I go in there. That I have to run weekly schedule reports to see when he's on the schedule, and see my name scheduled for the same shift as him, and feel my stomach drop. That I have to go to a manager who sympathizes with me and request my schedules be changed around a bit to minimize the time I have to spend near him.

 

 

All because women freak out and cry wolf when a male coworker jokingly calls her "buttercup".