"Nice" guys

[hotpotato]

The strange thing about many self-described nice guys is that they're often not very nice.

 

Exactly! If they are so nice, it would shine through naturally. They wouldn't have shout it from the roof tops.

 

Many nice guys are passive aggressive.

 

I've dated a guy who proclaimed to be nice. I could never complain about him because he was so nice and could do no wrong. These were serious complaints about infidelity...

 

And when a nice guy get rejected by a woman for someone he perceives at not nice there are undertones of, "How dare that stupid b&^&* pick someone over me? I listened to all her stupid problems! I was there for that you-now-what!

 

I also think some people make the mistake of seeing a guy on a Harley and assuming he is not nice. He must be *insert stereotype here* You can be kind and respectful to woman and still have an edge.

 

IMO nice guys get rejected for being boring and passive aggressive, not for being nice.

 

Being nice isn't enough to sustain a relationship anyway.

Edited April 13, 2014 by hotpotato

[Vyliss]

I've dated "nice guys" who are basically doormats and I would never do it again. The things is, these guys are nice, but I don't respect them.

 

If I can say the meanest thing to a guy and he STILL doesn't get angry or react in any massive way, and then apologizes for everything (even when I know its my fault), then he's not a guy I can see myself being with. Shows he doesn't respect himself, so why should I respect him?

 

If a guy is always asking for approval, always asking what I wanted, always trying to make me happy, instead of having their own life, thoughts, desires, wants etc. Then in my eyes he's not a man, he's just a dude that revolves around his girlfriend.

 

With that said though, I know I'm more blunt/direct than most girls, so I would probably need to be with a more alpha male as I tend to eat nice guys alive.

[topaMAXX]

... Eventually women won't be able to provide for themselves, and will have to just accept whatever guy has the very base qualities for an acceptable mate?

 

Once the global empire that we've established crashes, it may go back to that. It is one of many possibilities.

 

Cause here's the thing fellas.... it worked in the past because women had no options. They had to marry to survive.

 

This is an ideal situation, imo.

 

Now women can support themselves, which means "nice" is the baseline thing women look for. "Nice" is like wheels on a car. You obviously want a car with wheels, but you want more than just wheels in a car (you also want, say, a steering wheel, and maybe some AC.)

 

Hmmmm.....

 

You should be nice. But you should be something else along with nice. I do not understand what is difficult about this concept!

 

This is not a difficult concept. I understand completely.

 

And I absolutely do not understand why certain guys want to revert back to a world where a woman swallowed her disgust and settled for a guy because she had to. Wouldn't you rather, ya know, improve as a person (be more than just 'nice') and find a woman who actually digs you, who isn't just holding her to be with you??

 

Generally, women are attracted to the same kind of guy. Women will say that all women are different and like different things. This is false.

 

So to be attractive, I have to act a certain way. I know because I did it for many years. But I no longer want to act that way.

 

If women were forced to get married to the provider type, this would be ideal for me. I used to be bad boy-ish, but I no longer am. I have a stressful job and it would be awesome to come home to a hot meal from a good wife and not have to worry about my wife cheating if I'm not paying attention to her for 2 minutes.

 

Unfortunately, this is not the world we live in anymore....

[MixedUpChick]

...and it would be awesome to come home to a hot meal from a good wife..

 

I read your post & wasn't going to comment, when I got to this sentence I was expecting it to say something about a hot woman. I'm very impressed you used the word "good" to describe the wife

[R3d]

I think it's when a guy has no other personality trait other than 'nice' that women tune out.

Yeah, on this other board I post on, someone made an excellent post regarding this:

 

Talking to a girl I like. - Straight Dope Message Board

 

I used to be the OP.

 

Actually, I'd say I was like that until my divorce (I was 31.)

 

Once I got back on the scene after that, my attitude had changed. I wasn't trying to hook up, or get into a relationship, or get married, or anything. With no 'goal,' you don't have to wear a mask or try to be attractive or interesting. You just end up being your natural self--honest to a fault, without fear or regard for others' reactions.

 

Essentially, it's confidence.

 

Since then, I have not been rejected by a single female. I'm not much to look at, but even with beauty queen types I've not struck out.

 

Attitude, confidence, honesty, humor, and no games. That's the ticket. Talk to this girl just because you like talking to her, and not because you "like" her romantically. If she's interested, she'll "like" you back and you can go from there.

 

Later he says:

 

Like I said earlier...for me it took a major, devastating, life-changing event (divorce) for me to 'figure it out," so to speak, but my best friend had learned that lesson by the time we were about 17. And that's why he was as successful with the ladies as he was. I tried to be the "nice guy," which, even though I AM a nice guy, the fakeness of it was a turnoff to women. My boy, on the other hand, was fine with being himself--which included being an abrasive ass some/a lot of the time. The fact that he didn't give a **** about your reaction to it only made him more appealing.

[snowflakepua]

It is very simple. Most women are not attracted to guys who treat them well. Not guys who are doormats, but guys who are not doormats but are considerate, like they buy the girl flowers ad open doors for her.

 

They are attracted to jerks and sleep with them. That is why you see so many guys who are not jerks pretending to be jerks.

 

 

What's up with the idea that some men seem to have here, that being a "nice guy" means being a doormat?

 

And also that if being a door mat doesn't "work" to get you girls, then you might as well give up and be a bitter jerk?

 

I think it's completely possible to be a "nice guy" (i.e. friendly, polite, agreeable) but still demand respect from other people. I'd hold my own partner up as an example of this - he is very polite and respectful to me, but won't take any crap either - and I find it a very attractive trait in him.

 

So where does this idea come from, that a guy has to be either a weak doormat, or a arrogant jerk?

 

It's not an attitude that most of my real life male friends have, but I've seen it a bit on this forum (and have seen it occasionally in real life, generally in guys that are single - I don't think that's a coincidence, either).

[GemmaUK]

I have dated two guys who were self proclaimed 'nice guys'.

 

It was great when they treated me well..all was good and I treated them well in return.

 

Trouble was that they didn't stay nice. Both turned out to have controlling and argumentative natures and had beliefs about relationships that were closer linked to entitlement syndrome rather than a healthy relationship.

 

These guys were jerks who put across a 'nice guy' image at the start of teh relationship.

 

I think this is why some people think women like to date jerks - what they don't know is that the guy didn't start out being a jerk.

[snowflakepua]

I hear women talking about this subject or variations on this all the time. Why are guys jerks? Why doesn't my boyfriend treat me better? Where are the real men? Why doesn't my husband / boyfriend remember my birthday? I don't want a doormat but I want a guy who treats me well. Women ask themselves and their friends these questions all the time.

 

These answers can be very easily answered if you view the relationships between men and women as a marketplace. It isn't, but please bear with me for the sake of this discussion. Men want sex and affection and women provide these things. There are a wide variety of guys pursuing a wide variety of strategies to get this. In other words, you could say they are offering different "coins" (behaviors) in order to get this. Some guys are kind, affectionate and dependable. Some are bossy and controlling. Some are bad boys. Some are jerks. Some, like myself, are kind and dependable but at the same time dominant and don't put up with anything.

 

Once we look at things objectively, we can look at what "coin" (behavior) is most likely to be accepted in exchange for sex and affection. In the world, there are as many types of women as there are men so we can safely assume that all of the "coins" will be accepted by someone, but what "coins" are the ones most commonly accepted by the vast majority of women. In other words, what behavior are the men that are getting the lion's share of the women exhibiting. It is an absolute and total waste of time to talk to women about what they want. Total waste of time. All we need to look at is what "coins" (behaviors) the men who sleep with the most women exhibit

 

And as much as women hate to face the truth, the guys who get to sleep with their choice of women are more often than not thugs, jerks or players. So we can see that this is the "coin" they consider most valuable. That don't call, that sleep not only with them but all of their friends. Not all women are this way so this may or may not apply to you personally. But it does apply to MOST young women and that is the point.

 

So naturally, since most women prefer this behavior, not based on their words, but based on their actions, we see more and more guys adopting this behavior because they want to be successful with women. When women stop rewarding bad boys, gangsters and jerks with affection and sex, this guys will change their behavior. But at this point, what incentive is there to change? Why change something that is so successful? At the end of the day, women control the sexual marketplace and if they didn't have sex with these guys, they would be forced to change.

 

 

 

 

What's up with the idea that some men seem to have here, that being a "nice guy" means being a doormat?

 

And also that if being a door mat doesn't "work" to get you girls, then you might as well give up and be a bitter jerk?

 

I think it's completely possible to be a "nice guy" (i.e. friendly, polite, agreeable) but still demand respect from other people. I'd hold my own partner up as an example of this - he is very polite and respectful to me, but won't take any crap either - and I find it a very attractive trait in him.

 

So where does this idea come from, that a guy has to be either a weak doormat, or a arrogant jerk?

 

It's not an attitude that most of my real life male friends have, but I've seen it a bit on this forum (and have seen it occasionally in real life, generally in guys that are single - I don't think that's a coincidence, either).