To get them back: No contact vs Some contact

[johnson_j]

Which means that relationship subsequently still failed. Yes? What's the point of 'getting them back' just to go through another breakup with the same person? Isn't it better to let them go and find someone who's a better fit?

 

 

 

Actually it was my fault in most of the times, because the trust had been broken and I don't give trust that easily. One time the girl did end things because she still was confused, thought she knew what she wanted, and I finally got tired of being strung along and said some things that I shouldn't have said (nothing horrible - just would have been better to take the high road).

[spicelover]

Dammit. I had to break it this morning as she wrote me an email asking if something specific had been delivered as it was supposed to be to this address.

 

So I wrote back short and sweet to say no and assume I will forward anything to her new address (just to set in her mind so she won't have to ask again), but still. grrrr... prefer complete silence.

[spicelover]

works in what way? bringing them back or you moving on?

 

my ex blocked me 2 weeks ago and i haven't contacted him since the day after he blocked me. it's really hard, etc blahblahblah.. but i'm adamant on not contacting him again. deep down i'm scared i'll never hear from him again though. perhaps nc will help me move on and let go of these feelings.. but what if i never do? what if he is/was the one?

 

Hey Barefoot,

 

It works for you. Because if you move on and are happy then you're a winner. If it happens that they miss you and come back and you both can resolve your issues and be happy, then you're a winner in that way too. But in the end... you'll be the winner no matter what happens.

 

[KaliLove]

works in what way? bringing them back or you moving on?

 

my ex blocked me 2 weeks ago and i haven't contacted him since the day after he blocked me. it's really hard, etc blahblahblah.. but i'm adamant on not contacting him again. deep down i'm scared i'll never hear from him again though. perhaps nc will help me move on and let go of these feelings.. but what if i never do? what if he is/was the one?

 

NC works to help you move on. It is NOT a tool to get someone back. Have you read the NC guide?

 

If he was the one you wouldn't have broken up. True reconciliation is rare and when it happens, it's even more rare that it lasts.

 

I hope you're one of the lucky ones Mangetout, I really do.

[lovelogic]

Each situation is different so don't put any hope into other people's success stories. Yes, the point of NC is to move on. For a relationship to work, two independent people have to come together. If you are so reliant on your ex, you two will never truly be happy. You must first be happy in yourself first for anything to happen. There are no certainties in life and you really have to leave it up to fate. Tough to hear, but over time you will realize it.

[spicelover]

So, I have been doing some research after speaking to a councellor last week. I think she may have borderline personality disorder. She fits the bill in every single way. Ticks every box. The more I read into these stories the more I can see it's a hopeless situation.

 

It seems once they flip and leave, that's it. And all of the communication and little games they play are all about control. Reading about it all is helping me understand a lot, but OMG I feel so stupid for believing everything over the past 18 months. I fell so in love with someone who seems is incapable to sustaining feelings.

[Downtown]

I think she may have borderline personality disorder. She fits the bill in every single way.

Spice, did your therapist suggest BPD as a possibility? I agree that some of the behaviors described in your other posts -- e.g., temper tantrums, verbal abuse, physical abuse (choking you very hard on several occasions), and very controlling behavior -- are warning signs for having strong BPD traits. Of course, only a professional can diagnose her to determine whether she actually has full-blown BPD. Spotting the warning signs, however, is not difficult when you've lived with someone for over a year. What signs are you seeing?

 

If you would like to see a list of BPD red flags, I suggest you see my list at 18 Warning Signs. I also provide a more detailed description of them in my posts at Rebel's Thread. If those descriptions ring some bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

It seems once they flip and leave, that's it.

No, that is unlikely if she has strong BPD traits. It is much more likely she will return. Of course, a point likely will eventually come when a BPDer splits you black permanently and refuses to ever return. Until then, however, it is common for a BPDer to go through several full cycles of breakup/reconciliation before eventually leaving for good.

 

A recent survey at BPDfamily, for example, found that 73% of BPDer relationships go through 3 or more full breakup/makeup cycles before finally ending. And 51% go through at least 6 such cycles. Moreover, 23% go through 10 or more such cycles before eventually ending. See Breakup-Makeup Cycles.

[spicelover]

Spice, did your therapist suggest BPD as a possibility? I agree that some of the behaviors described in your other posts -- e.g., temper tantrums, verbal abuse, physical abuse (choking you very hard on several occasions), and very controlling behavior -- are warning signs for having strong BPD traits. Of course, only a professional can diagnose her to determine whether she actually has full-blown BPD. Spotting the warning signs, however, is not difficult when you've lived with someone for over a year. What signs are you seeing?

 

If you would like to see a list of BPD red flags, I suggest you see my list at 18 Warning Signs. I also provide a more detailed description of them in my posts at Rebel's Thread. If those descriptions ring some bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

No, that is unlikely if she has strong BPD traits. It is much more likely she will return. Of course, a point likely will eventually come when a BPDer splits you black permanently and refuses to ever return. Until then, however, it is common for a BPDer to go through several full cycles of breakup/reconciliation before eventually leaving for good.

 

A recent survey at BPDfamily, for example, found that 73% of BPDer relationships go through 3 or more full breakup/makeup cycles before finally ending. And 51% go through at least 6 such cycles. Moreover, 23% go through 10 or more such cycles before eventually ending. See Breakup-Makeup Cycles.

 

Wow thanks so much Downtown! Yes, the therapist suggested she sounded textbook BPD from what I'd discussed with him. So I did a bunch of reading and yeah the more I read it's like the articles are written about her.

 

There are some exceptions. She's never tried to kill herself or any extremes like that, but I know she likes a bit of pain. I remember stuff like whenever she'd cut herself accidentally, or had any kind of scratch or wound, she'd put nail polish remover in it and she loved the stinging. The main things about her which make me think BPD:

 

- Black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and will recategorize someone -- in just a few seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor comment or infraction; ABSOLUTELY THIS. She'd go from thinking someone is the best to just hating them intensely for the stupidest thing.

 

2. Frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always" and "you never;" All the time. Always when arguing about something no matter how trivial

 

3. Irrational jealousy and controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members; THIS! Looking back she was pretty good with trying to keep me with friends and family, but would always just throw in little comments to make me think twice about hanging out with certain people. Especially going to gym. One night I suggested I go downstairs to the gym in the building, because I couldn't sleep, and she got so angry and upset because she thought I was meeting a girl to have sex... she actually said that. Also HATED me using Facebook - always thought I'd be talking to girls, which I never did??

 

4. A strong sense of entitlement that prevents her from appreciating your sacrifices, resulting in a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude (e.g., not appreciating all the 3-hour trips you made to see her for two years) and a double standard ; No so much

 

5. Flipping, on a dime, between adoring you and devaluing you -- making you feel like you're always walking on eggshells; This big time. One minute I was a knight in shining armour... actually I felt this way a lot which was nice. But then she'd put me down to no end making me feel like a complete twat about the stupidest things

 

6. Frequently creating drama over issues so minor that neither of you can recall what the fight was about two days later; All the time haha

 

7. Low self esteem; very much so. Although this is a strange one. She actually acted and appeared very SUPER over confident to the outside world. Everyone think's she's this amazing super woman. Then at home you'd see behind the scenes and she was very fragile indeed. Cried about a lot of deep-seated issues. Lots of flirting with other men too which used to really upset me

 

8. Verbal abuse and anger that is easily triggered, in seconds, by a minor thing you say or do (real or imagined), resulting in temper tantrums or cold sulking that typically start in seconds and last several hours; Yeah lots of these. She had a poison tongue, and there were the choking incidents (although the physical stuff was more alcohol related)

 

9. Fear of abandonment or being alone -- evident in her expecting you to “be there” for her on demand, making unrealistic demands for the amount of time spent together, or responding with intense anger to even brief separations or slight changes in plans; She was actually good with having her own time and space.. the abandonment stuff usually went along with me having to talk with my ex-wife. She didn't like that one little bit and always felt I'd go back to her - which I had to constantly reassure her would never ever happen

 

10. Always being "The Victim," a false self image she validates by blaming you for every misfortune; No so much

 

11. Lack of impulse control, wherein she does reckless things without considering the consequences (e.g., binge eating or spending); Not so much - that's probably more me haha

 

12. Complaining that all her previous BFs were abusive and claiming (during your courtship) that you are the only one who has treated her well; Absolutely. Said she'd never felt true love before.

 

13. Mirroring your personality and preferences so perfectly during the courtship period (e.g., enjoying everything and everyone you like) that you were convinced you had met your "soul mate;" Big time

 

14. Relying on you to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction because her goals otherwise keep changing every few months; Yes this too, but in the end said she'd lost herself and what she wanted from life, where all the long kept insisting she wanted the same things I did it was very strange

 

15. Relying on you to sooth her and calm her down, when she is stressed, because she has so little ability to do self soothing; All the time

 

16. Having many casual friends but not any close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away); OMG yes THIS! Her friendships were a whole new story alone. And yep ALL long distance, but very come and go with casual friends

 

17. Taking on the personality of whatever person she is talking to, thereby acting quite differently around different types of people; and Yep! We'd go out with the expectation of a quiet night and maybe a couple of drinks, and she'd run into one of her more loose friends, and would be straight into party mode see you later!!

 

18. Always convinced that her intense feelings accurately reflect reality -- to the point that she regards her own feelings as self-evident facts, despite her inability to support them with any hard evidence. She was always right about everything. To the point she'd argue with people about everything.

 

Another trait that I've read about is they like to seek attention? She always flirted a lot with other men. It didn't matter if he was the postman, or waiter in the restaurant, or a guy in a bar. I never felt she'd cheat on me, but I did feel quite uncomfortable and insecure about it. That was something that got better over time, but yeah it didn't make me feel very good at all.

 

I know reading the above sounds bad. But understanding this behavour has made me feel a lot better about it all. I think working with her and getting her some help and me being able to cope better with it might allow the rest of the relationship get better. I still think she's a great girl.

 

I guess the next step is to approach her and see if she'd work on things.

[Downtown]

I know reading the above sounds bad....but I still think she's a great girl.

Spice, no, your GF doesn't sound "bad" to me. If she is a BPDer as your therapist believes, her problem is not being "bad" but, rather, being emotionally unstable and incapable of trusting you. Although untreated BPDers lack the maturity to sustain a marriage or close friendship, they nonetheless generally are very valuable people. The surgeon who one day saves your life -- and the university professor who inspires your career choice -- may well be high functioning BPDers.

 

Because BPDers typically have the emotional development of a four year old, they generally exhibit a warmth and purity of expression that otherwise is seen only in children. This is one reason that BPDers are so easy to fall in love with. Indeed, two of the world's most beloved women -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- both had full-blown BPD, if their biographers are correct. Similarly, my BPDer exW has such a warm and lovable personality that, after talking with her for just a half hour, complete strangers feel like they've known her for a long time. I therefore do not doubt the accuracy of your claim that your exGF is "a great girl."

But understanding this behavour has made me feel a lot better about it all.

If you truly understood the behavior of high functioning BPDers, you would not be saying that. You should be saying it scares the hell out of you. Because a BPDer has the emotional development of a four year old, any close relationship you have with her will be a parent/child connection, not a husband/wife connection.

 

Further, there is only perhaps a 1% chance of a BPDer seeking therapy and staying with it long enough to make a real difference. Although there are excellent treatment programs available in most major cities, it is rare for a BPDer to have sufficient self awareness and ego strength to take advantage of those programs (e.g., CBT and DBT).

 

I think working with her and getting her some help and me being able to cope better with it might allow the rest of the relationship get better.

That's what I thought too. But you can absolutely forget "working with her." The only people who are sufficiently trained to help her learn how to manage her emotions are the professionals. And, as I said above, it is extremely unlikely that even a team of professionals will be able to do a thing for her -- because, due to her inability to trust anyone who is close to her, she almost certainly will never bond to the therapists well enough to believe what they are saying.

 

As to "getting her some help" by contacting the professionals, I went down that path and I'm here to say that you won't like how it ends. For 15 years, I took my BPDer exW to weekly sessions with six different psychologists, one psychiatrist (having a national reputation), and three MCs. Although it cost me a small fortune, it did not make even a small dent in my exW's BPD behavior. On the contrary, her behavior got worse.

 

As the years go by, the BPDer likely will become increasingly resentful of your inability to make her happy (an impossible task). At the same time, she likely will become increasingly fearful of abandonment as she sees her body aging. The result is that, after about 12 to 15 years, she likely will be in so much pain from the abandonment fear that she will preemptively abandon you to end that suffering -- thus choosing to walk away from you.

 

By "walk away," I mean that the BPDer likely will do something very mean to provoke you into becoming "The Perpetrator" so she can portrayed in court as "The Victim" of your actions. This is why it is so common for a BPDer marriage to end with the BPDer deliberately provoking her husband into anger and then having him arrested on a bogus charge. My exW, for example, chased me from room to room and then proceeded to destroy the door I was hiding behind. When I pushed her away from the door, she tripped when stepping back and fell down. She called the police.

 

Because it was early on a Saturday morning when I was taken to jail, I was locked up for nearly three days before I could go before a judge on Monday afternoon. Given that your exGF has already called the police on you before, you are at GREAT risk of being arrested again -- at which time, if you're married to her by then, she will be able to obtain a R/O barring you from returning to your own home until the divorce is finalized. And heaven help you if you have children with her.

 

I guess the next step is to approach her and see if she'd work on things.

No, the next step is RUN, FORREST, RUN. Yet, if you're not yet ready to do that, I well understand how difficult it is for us excessive caregivers to walk away. Leaving a BPDer is as painful for us as walking away from a young child because BPDers have so many childlike qualities. As I said, it took me 15 years to leave my exW. I therefore offer the following suggestions if you're not yet ready to stay away from your exGF.

 

As an initial matter, I recommend that you NOT tell her about your BPD suspicions. If she is a BPDer, she almost certainly will project the accusation right back onto you, believing YOU to be the BPDer. Instead, simply encourage her to see a good psychologist (not a MC) and let the psych decide what to tell her.

 

Second, if you think you may stay with her a while, I suggest you get Stop Walking on Eggshells, the best-selling BPD book targeted to abused partners like you.

 

Third, I suggest you start participating (or at least lurking) at BPDfamily.com -- the largest and most active BPD forum I've found that is devoted fully to the spouses and family members of BPDers. This issue is such an enormous problem that that website is growing by 20 new members every day. I suggest you read the excellent articles in their resources section. My favorite is #9 at BPDfamily Articles.

 

Fourth, I suggest you read Shari Schreiber's description of how we excessive caregivers get to be this way during our childhoods. It is in her article at Core Injury. Schreiber explains why our desire to be needed (for what we can do) far exceeds our desire to be loved (for the men we already are). And, if you haven't done so already, I again suggest you read my description of what it's like to live with a BPDer in Rebel's Thread.

 

Finally, please don't forget those of us on this LoveShack forum. We want to keep trying to answer your questions and providing emotional support as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Moreover, by sharing your own experiences here, you likely are helping many other members and lurkers. This thread of yours, for example, has already attracted over 3,000 views.

[spicelover]

Wow Downtown. I really appreciate your posts and links. You've given me a lot of mull over this weekend. It's been tough to read.

 

So I've read a lot of posts on the forum you suggested, and also now have a copy of "Walk on eggshells". Meanwhile, I still feel too much to give up on her (for now). I can't leave it the way it is - I know a lot of people would think I'm stupid/weak/crazy to even think that way, but I just can't help it. I'm still in love.

 

So I'm taking your suggestions and spending a lot of time by myself to think things through. I've had contact with her over the past day. Saturday night I may have sent (yeah yeah stupid I know), a goodnight "I miss you" kinda message. It was mainly after reading a heap of the "out of sight out of mind" articles for BPD people. So I thought I'd just put it out there. I heard nothing back until the morning where she ignored all of that and wished me a Happy Easter. A couple of SMS's back and I suggested we catch up this week once she's back.

 

She immediately wrote back saying that sounds good and we should get a bite to eat. I left it with her to let me know when she's available. I haven't spoken to her since, but I'm sure I'll hear later in the week.

 

I'm going to suggest a coffee instead of a lunch (lunch might be a little date-ish). I'm going to go in with no expectations, but I really would like settle a couple of things with her. I know she keeps talking about being friends etc etc and "see where things go after the dust settles". So I'm going to tell her all of the things I've been up to on settling any issues I've had with my ex-wife that were upsetting her. I'm going to tell her everything I've learned about myself over the past 6-7 weeks. I'm going to tell her that now all of the dramatic stuff has settled, I still feel love for her and that I'd like to start fresh and take her on a date. If she declines, then I'll say then her contacting me, and turning up at my workplace etc (something similar to what Simon Phoenix suggested).

 

I toss up between trying to get her to come see the therapist with me, or starting from scratch and then slowly getting into that. But if she's going to keep things in limbo then I'm switching off and have to move on it's just too destructive.

[Downtown]

I know she keeps talking about being friends.

Spice, if she is a "textbook BPDer" as your therapist says, you can forget about a long term friendship. Granted, BPDers can make wonderful casual friends. Indeed, if I had to choose between going to a party with BPDers or Nons, I know I would have far more fun with the BPDers. Yet, because you've become close to her, being a "casual friend" is no longer an option for you. As a close long-term friend, you will unavoidably trigger her fears of abandonment and engulfment.

 

Moreover, if she is a BPDer, she is incapable of ever trusting you for any sustained period. That is a huge problem because all long-term friendships and other close relationships must be built on trust if they are to be sustainable. Absent trust, there simply is no foundation on which to build the friendship. The result is that you know she can turn on you, with a vengeance, at any time (as she's already done in the past). Sadly, this means you can never fully trust her.

 

I'm going to tell her all of the things I've been up to on settling any issues I've had with my ex-wife that were upsetting her.

If your exGF is a BPDer, the money and time spent on your exW and kids were not the source of her anger. She has been carrying enormous anger and shame since early childhood. The exW and kids, then, were merely triggers that served to release some of that anger. Sadly, if your exW and kids disappeared tomorrow, your exGF would simply replace that trigger with others.

 

My exW, for example, would get jealous when I spent time and money on my foster son. But, when he wasn't around, she would take great offense in my walking a few feet in front or behind her when we were walking together on a crowded sidewalk. And, when we weren't walking, she would feel threatened whenever I glanced at another woman for a second instead of a half-second. When we were having a conversation, she sometimes would take great offense not from my words but, rather, from my "tone" of voice.

 

Further, when none of those events were available because I was sitting still and saying absolutely nothing, her subconscious would protect her fragile ego from the anger and hurt inside by projecting it onto me -- with the result that she would truly believe, at a conscious level, that I was the cause of those hurtful feelings. BPDers are filled with so much anger and pain that they have a powerful need to use their loved one as a trashcan into which they can dispose of those intense feelings. Going back to her, then, means you will resume your role as trashcan.

 

I still feel too much to give up on her (for now). I can't leave it the way it is -- I know a lot of people would think I'm stupid/weak/crazy to even think that way.

Listening to the logical, adult part of your mind is very difficult to do, so please don't beat yourself up if you need time to pull it off. The reason -- as I've tried to explain in other threads -- is that our inner child (i.e., the intuitive, emotional part of our mind) makes the vast majority of our important decisions. I was 50 years old before I understood that simple notion. And it took me 12 years to do it.

 

What happened was that, for 12 years, I took my bipolar foster son to a weekly family group meeting with the psychologist who was treating him. Whenever the psychologist challenged me on something, I always had an elaborate well-thought-out explanation for doing whatever I had chosen to do. Never mind that what I had chosen was not working with my foster son and never mind that I kept repeating the same pattern year after year.

 

The psychologist was always greatly amused by my explanations. He would laugh and point out, in his kindly fashion, that my elaborate rationalizations could not disguise the fact that my inner child -- not my adult -- was calling all the shots, making nearly all the decisions. In any contest between the adult and child, he claimed, the child would almost always win. But I just could not swallow this concept.

 

Yet, after 12 years of his gentle rebukes, it dawned on me one night -- right as I was about to drift into sleep -- why he had to be right. My inner child, I suddenly realized, is the sole judge of what is fun and what is not fun. That decision is all powerful. The adult part of my mind will nearly always conclude that it makes no sense -- indeed, would be preposterous -- to do something, go somewhere, or date someone I do not enjoy. My adult logic thus nearly always has to end up in the lap of my inner child.

 

This is why learning about my exW's problem (BPD) and my problem (excessive caregiver) is the EASY PART. What is DIFFICULT is internalizing that understanding, i.e., transforming knowledge into wisdom, which requires that my feelings catch up with my intellectual thoughts.

 

Simply stated, I must persuade my child that my adult views of my ex's illness and my own excessive caregiving are correct -- an objective I eventually attained. Had I failed in that effort, I would remain stuck in a destructive pattern, repeating my past mistakes over and over, because my child will be calling nearly all the shots. Because I had been in a 15 year relationship, it took me at least a year to bring my child's feelings into alignment with my adult's understanding. After just two weeks of intense reading on the Internet, I had a pretty good understanding of what I needed to do to get out of the toxic relationship and why I needed to do it.

 

Yet, because my child was over a year behind my adult, the child sabotaged my every effort to break away. It hindered me with nagging doubts, terrible guilt, and a strong feeling of obligation. It kept telling me that the theory floating around in the adult part of my mind was an insufficient basis on which to wholly abandon a sick loved one. Even after I had left her, I still refused to go No Contact for eight more months, at which point I finally realized she is incapable of ever being my friend. My adult dragged my child -- with him kicking and screaming every inch of the way -- to that shocking truth. How do you accomplish that? How do you teach a child -- who had felt for many years she was my best friend -- that she never even had that capability?

 

To bring the child and adult into alignment, what helped me a little was talking about my new found knowledge to anyone who would listen. Well, that was good for a week. Then their eyes glazed over. So what helped the most was coming to a forum like LoveShack, where I could discuss it with people who had been there, done that. Significantly, that helped my mind to associate feelings with each of the intellectual thoughts. That has to be done because the child largely learns from emotional experiences -- not from logic.

[spicelover]

I cant think you enough for all of your wisdom Downtown. You're a wonderful contributor to this forum.

 

I don't know if you've read my PM's yet, but yes, I'm dedicated for now. I still love her (hey we're all here in this forum because of love right??)... you can't help what you want, and my heart is driving me towards her.

 

If you guys want to know... I'm playing my cards tomorrow. I sent her a STUUPIIIIDDD text a couple of nights ago (yep I'd been out and had a few), but still... I said "You're the last thing I see before I fall asleep, and the first I think of when I awake xx"... stupid I know, but I've been doing more reading about BPD people and it seems out of sight out of mind. She didn't reply, and in the morning I said "eeek... sorry about that I spent the night with (spicelover's cousin) last night and we were talking because her BF split up with her, so I was all about the love. Let's catch up this week"... she instantly wrote back and said yes let's get lunch.

 

Soooo... tomorrow it is. I'm going in with my heart on my sleeve. No begging (I haven't begged for a second yet to be honest, I've only ever stated my feelings about still loving her), so I'm giving her the ultimatum. I'm going to ask if she'd like to start over and start with a clean slate and tell her all of the things I've done over the past 7 weeks to make myself clean from my past (ex-wife), and mopped all of that up so I can start a new fresh relationship without any baggage. And if she'd like to date again, I'd love to take her out for dinner next week. If she says no... I'm cutting all ties there and then. It WILL be the end, and I won't look back. Life's too short and I'm losing too much weight not eating and worrying.

 

Wish me luck. I'm nervous, but excited no matter what happens. It's all going to be new and exciting, and I don't have to worry about this push and pull anymore.

[Downtown]

Wish me luck. I'm nervous, but excited no matter what happens. It's all going to be new and exciting, and I don't have to worry about this push and pull anymore.

Spice, I wish the two of you all the luck in the world. I hope your therapist proves to be very mistaken about your exGF having BPD. I wouldn't wish that terrible disorder on my worst enemy.

[spicelover]

Thanks Downtown. I'm just wondering if I should really hit her up and give her the 2 options, or just see where things go like a normal catch up and go with the flow. I'm a little confused and lost after all of my reading now

[Simon Phoenix]

Oh no. Well, best of luck I guess.

[KaliLove]

Sigh. Well..best of luck to you. I hope I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure we'll be seeing you again soon here.

[Zahara]

After all those red flags in #108. SMH.

[ConfusedHumanBeing]

I cant think you enough for all of your wisdom Downtown. You're a wonderful contributor to this forum.

 

I don't know if you've read my PM's yet, but yes, I'm dedicated for now. I still love her (hey we're all here in this forum because of love right??)... you can't help what you want, and my heart is driving me towards her.

 

If you guys want to know... I'm playing my cards tomorrow. I sent her a STUUPIIIIDDD text a couple of nights ago (yep I'd been out and had a few), but still... I said "You're the last thing I see before I fall asleep, and the first I think of when I awake xx"... stupid I know, but I've been doing more reading about BPD people and it seems out of sight out of mind. She didn't reply, and in the morning I said "eeek... sorry about that I spent the night with (spicelover's cousin) last night and we were talking because her BF split up with her, so I was all about the love. Let's catch up this week"... she instantly wrote back and said yes let's get lunch.

 

Soooo... tomorrow it is. I'm going in with my heart on my sleeve. No begging (I haven't begged for a second yet to be honest, I've only ever stated my feelings about still loving her), so I'm giving her the ultimatum. I'm going to ask if she'd like to start over and start with a clean slate and tell her all of the things I've done over the past 7 weeks to make myself clean from my past (ex-wife), and mopped all of that up so I can start a new fresh relationship without any baggage. And if she'd like to date again, I'd love to take her out for dinner next week. If she says no... I'm cutting all ties there and then. It WILL be the end, and I won't look back. Life's too short and I'm losing too much weight not eating and worrying.

 

Wish me luck. I'm nervous, but excited no matter what happens. It's all going to be new and exciting, and I don't have to worry about this push and pull anymore.

 

The good ol "I'm meeting up with her and I'll be fine either way. This will be GREAT." Then, a couple days later, come back and says one of two things: "(1) She said yes. Thanks LS".... them to be back a month or two later saying how it ended again OR "(2) Yeah, it didnt go well. She said she wants to be friends" route.

 

I'm going with two. She already said she wants to be friends to you, so thats exactly what you're doing.

[spicelover]

No no... I actually believe today she will say friends only... which is fine. I just need to cut the ties then. I'll make it clear that I don't want to hear from her anymore.

 

She's given no indications at all that she wants to get back together (for now), only hints that down the track. I'm not willing to wait around while she plays the field and keeps in as her backup plan. She's in, or she's out. So if she's out then I'm not looking back. It will be hard, but no more of these drawn out games.

[Simon Phoenix]

I don't understand why you have to have this dramatic gut-wrenching conversation to do this. I really don't. After everything that Downtown said, you should be running for the hills, not begging for a meetup to spill your guts. But like I said, best of luck -- this is what you've wanted to do from the jump and you were looking for any excuse to do so. Hope it works out for you.

[BC1980]

No no... I actually believe today she will say friends only... which is fine. I just need to cut the ties then. I'll make it clear that I don't want to hear from her anymore.

 

She's given no indications at all that she wants to get back together (for now), only hints that down the track. I'm not willing to wait around while she plays the field and keeps in as her backup plan. She's in, or she's out. So if she's out then I'm not looking back. It will be hard, but no more of these drawn out games.

 

This is madness. Putting yourself through torture.

[spicelover]

This is madness. Putting yourself through torture.

 

Nah, I'll be ok. I'm just sick of starting to feel better, and then her just crashing back into my life. I need to set her straight so I can close the door properly. It was a very dramatic and quick ending, and my head has been spinning ever since. I need proper closure - for me.

[Simon Phoenix]

Nah, I'll be ok. I'm just sick of starting to feel better, and then her just crashing back into my life. I need to set her straight so I can close the door properly. It was a very dramatic and quick ending, and my head has been spinning ever since. I need proper closure - for me.

 

Closure comes from within. And you'll have this meet, it won't go well, there will be things you wish you said and rephrased, you'll ask for this meet again. Wash, rinse, repeat. You can't depend on other people to set you free -- that's your job.

[ConfusedHumanBeing]

Nah, I'll be ok. I'm just sick of starting to feel better, and then her just crashing back into my life. I need to set her straight so I can close the door properly. It was a very dramatic and quick ending, and my head has been spinning ever since. I need proper closure - for me.

 

You close the book, not her. She closed it when the breakup happened. You just look weak with continued text and meet ups.

[spicelover]

You close the book, not her. She closed it when the breakup happened. You just look weak with continued text and meet ups.

 

This is the first meet up I've asked for. She's been the one to come to me otherwise. I don't know. I'm not going to be dramatic that's for sure. I just want to lay down where I'm at, and what I expect. If she's going to keep turning up and random texts then I can't move on. I'm sure you guys have been there before? I want it to stop, unless she's ready to talk about us.

 

Maybe I just meet her, have lunch and not say anything about us just catch up.