Relationships are not worth it?

[gaius]

I've read this thread twice, sat here for the last 5 minutes thinking about it, and I still can't wrap my head around how in any way dating someone else somehow restricts your personal growth and development on any level.

[iris219]

Ie if you were to take all people in happy relationships out of that relationship how would they be?

 

Or if someone in a happy relationship was to be abruptly broken up with, how would that person be?

 

I am talking less about how the relationship functions, and more about how the relationship effects personal growth/space.

 

Many people, especially younger people, lose themselves in their relationship. When it ends, they have nothing, not even their own self identity. And this is why they are devastated when it ends.

 

I'm old enough to know better. I know how to cultivate a sense of self independent of my partner. We have a life together, but I have life without him as well. If we broke up, I'd still have that life.

 

It is important to continue to grow as an individual while in a relationship and it can be tempting to stop doing this and focus on the other person or the relationship, rather than the self. It's a balancing act: you, the other person, the relationship. Too many people forget about themselves. Deliberate focus on the self and your interests is necessary at times.

 

You can be in a relationship and still experience personal growth, though I think it's harder for some people because they don't want to put forth the effort to grow. Instead, they try to get all their needs met in the relationship, which is a mistake.

 

I actually think LS helps me with this because it allows me to think about relationships in general, an interest of mine, rather than just my own relationship.

[Leigh 87]

Many people, especially younger people, lose themselves in their relationship. When it ends, they have nothing, not even their own self identity. And this is why they are devastated when it ends.

 

 

This was me.

 

Love shack taught me a lot.

 

For starters, with my ex and before my ex, I would sit and day dream about purely my boyfriends, sex, and just them and us in general.

 

Now, loveshack has aided me in being totally nuts about a guy yet without letting them dominate my every thought.

 

I experienced it enough personally and after reading a lot about the unhealthy balance relationships can trigger in your life, I took heed.

 

It was also awful and almost debilitating to wake up and feel as though I had very little fulfilment in the world around me, not to mention I lost social sills due to being around him and abandoning friendships.

 

Now, I do not sit and day dream about my bf constantly, I don't purely look forward to the future pertaining to US, I pretty much think as an individual now and I just have hit the jackpot in terms of "bonuses".

[Elias33]

I've read this thread twice, sat here for the last 5 minutes thinking about it, and I still can't wrap my head around how in any way dating someone else somehow restricts your personal growth and development on any level.

 

I share your view. It is only when you go into a relationship expecting the other person to make you happy, a relationship may become venomous and the aftermath may leave you bitter and distrustful.

 

Make yourself happy first, then seek someone to share it with. You'll find it adventurous to meet new people, possibly the best friends/lovers you'll ever have.

 

It is not because of the others that a relationship took everything from you, it is because of the restrictions one places on oneself, the expectations placed on the other, where things went bad.

[hotpotato]

Many people, especially younger people, lose themselves in their relationship. When it ends, they have nothing, not even their own self identity. And this is why they are devastated when it ends.

 

 

For me this is not the case.

 

The hurtful ways I have been treated and ultimately dumped. That's why I hurt.

 

Imagine a guy making you believe he liked you and wanted to see you. Days later he dumps you and flaunts his new love all over fb. Now that is some bs.

 

And that's an improvement for me!

[kodakgirl]

Very good observation, and thoughtful questions. My experience has been that codependency or lack of enlightenment/personal growth isn't conducive to a healthy happy relationship. My search for myself, her search for herself doesn't stop and we aren't caught up in ego so we don't evaluate our happiness based on our relationship except in terms of interrelating. It is true that once you are in a relationship you function with the expectation that there is another life you are affecting, and that goes with children too. My role as the man, lover, husband, planner, best friend, teacher, and father is something we negotiated and renegotiate at times. We didn't lose ourselves but expanded our vision for who we could be. She is a writer, an artist, a nurturer, mother, wife, my woman, best friend, sister and my lover and I have little to do with what she is seeking or what she wants to create. I am a dependable linear thinker who is fairly introverted and she is a creative fly by the seat extrovert and we compliment each other in our life together. She likes my stability and I like her carefree spirit. We didn't stop growing and wanting to be more and wanting to see more when we met. In fact, together we have experienced a part of commingling of energy and life that we would have never done on our own.

Of course there is a lack of freedom, such as you have to be responsible and accountable, but that appeals to my character so I have little to no anxiety over that and neither does she. It really is about finding someone you can be independent with while also being enmeshed with...if that makes any sense. I often think about the young twenty something Grumps and how life changed for me when I met her. I was very happy single, was in a very serious search for peace and enlightenment, traveling to every place that stirred my imagination, having awesome sex and meeting great people. I didn't love her for lack of other options, or because I was ready to settle down but because everything we did, every adventure we have had, every time we make love or make eye contact is a little bit about that feeling you have when you have climbed the highest mountain and you realize you are seeing something from a differing and most majestic perspective. That perspective, to us anyway, definitely isn't old or boring or stale because we aren't that way as people. There would be hell to pay if we ever got that way too because she and I expect more from each other.

It is all about expectations and a good idea of who you are before you find your mate, if you should choose to find one.

Grumps

 

I just want to say I love this so much. It brought tears to my eyes. This is exactly what I want, and hearing it expressed so eloquently from an actual man in a happy relationship renews my hope and belief that it does happen. I don't know if I will find it but I am happier knowing it is out there. Thank you.

[hotpotato]

I can honestly say this: I don't want to have my mind clouded by emotion ever again. I also read a lot of stories of people having no self respect and putting up with crazy situations because they are not thinking clearly and they call it "love". It makes me cringe and just re-affirms that I would rather be single than be tortured like that.

 

And lets face it: even the best of relationships start with a lot of uncertainity and anxiety. Not something I want to go through and no, to me it's not worth it as in the end vast majority will fail anyway.

 

I try to wait at least a year between boyfriends. This helps me cut down on the anxiety. I need time to forget my last experience.

 

I've come to the conclusion that if I end up without a mate, that's ok. I'd rather be alone than unhappy.

 

Why is there so much anxiety going on? It either works out or it doesn't. And how do you become completely comfortable going without knowing someone's thinking about you, jerking off to you after you've been through that experience the first time? That kind of intimacy can be addicting.

I'm not sure if you have to date someone to get that!

 

Maybe you just haven't had the right kind of relationship yet....

 

Maybe not. I do tend to have different relationships than what a lot of women get. Even guys I date admit they treat other women way better. For other women they'll pull out all the stops- sappy facebook posts, chocolate covered strawberries, flower, breakfast in bed, you name it. I really do get a different treatment than a lot of women do.

 

I was just thinking about this actually. I really dont gain much in relationships. i can get how someone who has had better experiences may not feel the same way I do.

 

Honestly, as I get older having a boyfriend grows less and less important.

[Leegh]

I read somewhere where it was said by a famous person (can't remember name) many centuries ago that "Romantic love is a grave mental disease". I agree. I know some great people, that have gotten involved with some real losers, and they were "blinded" by love. But, luckily most of us do eventually get into good relationships.

[Valen]

Agreed. Very insightful. Though we should always be growing and learning, core values and an idea of who we are and what we stand for should be established before seeking relationships in the least. I did quite a bit of getting my head on straight and figuring out who I was while I was a single man.

 

 

I agree totally. That has been something I am currently going through: seeking to solidify my core values and what I stand for. Unfortunately, it has been difficult figuring out who I am because I have spend so much time in my youth playing different roles to suit different sets of social groups that I am not quite sure who I am at times. Do you have any tips to sorting this out? Like you I also been searching for peace and enlightenment, almost consider becoming a mountain hermit at one point. lol But my true struggle has been finding the real me. I know I'm not truly ready for a healthy relationship until I do so. If you have any guidance in how I can figure out who I truly am, I would love to hear it.

[Woggle]

I look at relationships in terms of do they improve my life or make it worse. My wife is the first woman I have been with that improves it. I am all for a happy and healthy partnership but I feel the majority of people these days are incapable of that and it's only getting worse.

[Grumpybutfun]

I agree totally. That has been something I am currently going through: seeking to solidify my core values and what I stand for. Unfortunately, it has been difficult figuring out who I am because I have spend so much time in my youth playing different roles to suit different sets of social groups that I am not quite sure who I am at times. Do you have any tips to sorting this out? Like you I also been searching for peace and enlightenment, almost consider becoming a mountain hermit at one point. lol But my true struggle has been finding the real me. I know I'm not truly ready for a healthy relationship until I do so. If you have any guidance in how I can figure out who I truly am, I would love to hear it.

 

Valen, I think this process starts with accepting that we are all force fed or brainwashed quite a bit by parents, society, culture, friends, family, religion, government and most external forces. According to where we come from and what we do, we are never a clean slate with healthy core values unless we come from a place where that is a priority. Like you probably know, integrity and honor are sometimes a thing of the past. They are the foundation of my belief system.

 

My personal seeking has always came from a need to be exactly who I really am, a part of everything, an egoless energy that interacts and participates in the world. As a young man, I traveled everywhere, went to college, also to the military, read everything from Nietzche to Thomas Hobbs, and questioned everything I believed about to the world and my thoughts. Worked off a shrimping boat one summer, worked my way across the US when I was fifteen. I was an emancipated minor by sixteen and started questioning the meaning of life, my role in the universe, the physical and psychological reasons for my families dysfunction, etc.

I think the best way to find who you are to develop your own core values is to stop being a lemming and following everyone else. Really reflect on what you believe in, and to me it is essential not to have answers as much as questions. Part of my quest centered around my values as my father had few. I learned that I wanted to be trusted, respected, dependable, responsible, and hardworking. I also believed deep down that love was something other people received, so I had to get myself to the place where I felt I deserved that too, and be capable of selflessly giving that. Since I had no idea what that was, love, it was a challenge.

 

While I was in college, I studied religions and comparative psychology. My friends thought I was crazy, but I knew there was more to life than just reacting to everything. I have a very stringent core of beliefs and I follow them. When I met my wife I was amazed at her own process which was similar to mine. She has taught me a lot about compassion and giving. I taught her a lot about planning and expectations.

 

It isn't easy to form your own beliefs, as many think conformity is a sign of health and boundaries, but I haven't found that to be the case. The people who think for themselves, who take a little from this philosophy or that religion are truer to themselves and really know why they believe that way. Nothing turned me off more than when I girl I dated would say, well, that was what my daddy believed or that is the only way to do things or think about things.

 

Everyone's journey is different but the key is to know that the search is the coup de gras to enlightenment and it doesn't stop. You are always learning as the information you process as you become older takes on its own severity and importance according to the life you have planned.

Still in seeking mode,

Grumps

[ASG]

I can honestly say this: I don't want to have my mind clouded by emotion ever again. I also read a lot of stories of people having no self respect and putting up with crazy situations because they are not thinking clearly and they call it "love". It makes me cringe and just re-affirms that I would rather be single than be tortured like that.

 

And lets face it: even the best of relationships start with a lot of uncertainity and anxiety. Not something I want to go through and no, to me it's not worth it as in the end vast majority will fail anyway.

 

OMG yes!

 

The relationship that brought me to LS was one such relationship!

The guy treated me appallingly! I cried every single day and we didn't even have a proper "honeymoon period".

 

Some of the things he said to me during our 8 month relationship should have made me walk away immediately.

But a mix of stubbornness (to make the relationship work) and feelings for this guy made me stay and fight.

 

A couple of things he said to me that should have made me walk immediately: "If you'd had brought me home with you that night I would have lost all respect for you", talking about the time we first kissed (and hes recently messaged me saying that he went past that place and that it brought a smile to his face. It brought vomit to my mouth though...)

And after I once asked him why he didn't seem as interested in having sex now "well... I guess once you have access to the cookie jar, you kinda lose interest..."

 

i'm going off on a tangent here, but yeah...

 

So no, I don't ever want to be clouded. I fear maybe that will prevent me from connecting properly. But I hope that once I meet the right guy, all this will become moot and I'll be able to assert myself and not take any **** and figure out whatever incompatibilities without compromising myself!

[lino]

I'm in my first serious and real relationship right now and can safely say it's been the best time of my life, right up there with the12th May, 1991 and that entire season

 

This site has no bearing on that bar a quote I got from someone here several years ago that I still live by to this day.

 

Anyone that let's a forum of nobodies affect their life profoundly shouldn't be using a message board.

[regine_phalange]

We don't get valuable things -such as the top of a career or an amazing partnerm or the birth of our child- every day. Life will happen in between. One can choose what to keep from their experience and others' experience. It may be biterness and mistrust, or it may be more knowledge on how to recognize the love of our life.

[lino]

OMG yes!

 

The relationship that brought me to LS was one such relationship!

The guy treated me appallingly! I cried every single day and we didn't even have a proper "honeymoon period".

 

Some of the things he said to me during our 8 month relationship should have made me walk away immediately.

But a mix of stubbornness (to make the relationship work) and feelings for this guy made me stay and fight.

 

A couple of things he said to me that should have made me walk immediately: "If you'd had brought me home with you that night I would have lost all respect for you", talking about the time we first kissed (and hes recently messaged me saying that he went past that place and that it brought a smile to his face. It brought vomit to my mouth though...)

And after I once asked him why he didn't seem as interested in having sex now "well... I guess once you have access to the cookie jar, you kinda lose interest..."

 

i'm going off on a tangent here, but yeah...

 

So no, I don't ever want to be clouded. I fear maybe that will prevent me from connecting properly. But I hope that once I meet the right guy, all this will become moot and I'll be able to assert myself and not take any **** and figure out whatever incompatibilities without compromising myself!

 

Yet another one

[gaius]

I'm not sure if you have to date someone to get that!

Ha very true.

Maybe not. I do tend to have different relationships than what a lot of women get. Even guys I date admit they treat other women way better. For other women they'll pull out all the stops- sappy facebook posts, chocolate covered strawberries, flower, breakfast in bed, you name it. I really do get a different treatment than a lot of women do.

 

I was just thinking about this actually. I really dont gain much in relationships. i can get how someone who has had better experiences may not feel the same way I do.

 

Honestly, as I get older having a boyfriend grows less and less important.

I remember when a certain girl shook me out of my late stage doldrums and showed me what a real decent relationship could be like. Until then I probably would have agreed with exactly what you wrote.

[Ruby Slippers]

I make more progress toward my personal, individual goals while single, but I experience a lot more emotional growth while in a relationship. Nothing cracks open the heart and challenges me to be stronger, braver, and more honest like really loving another person.

 

Overall, I'm happier when in a relationship than single. But I'm sensitive and particular, and I'd rather be single and a little sad about it than coupled up with a mediocre fit just so I'm not alone.

[ASG]

Yet another one

 

Yet another one... what?

[Valen]

Valen, I think this process starts with accepting that we are all force fed or brainwashed quite a bit by parents, society, culture, friends, family, religion, government and most external forces. According to where we come from and what we do, we are never a clean slate with healthy core values unless we come from a place where that is a priority. Like you probably know, integrity and honor are sometimes a thing of the past. They are the foundation of my belief system.

 

My personal seeking has always came from a need to be exactly who I really am, a part of everything, an egoless energy that interacts and participates in the world. As a young man, I traveled everywhere, went to college, also to the military, read everything from Nietzche to Thomas Hobbs, and questioned everything I believed about to the world and my thoughts. Worked off a shrimping boat one summer, worked my way across the US when I was fifteen. I was an emancipated minor by sixteen and started questioning the meaning of life, my role in the universe, the physical and psychological reasons for my families dysfunction, etc.

I think the best way to find who you are to develop your own core values is to stop being a lemming and following everyone else. Really reflect on what you believe in, and to me it is essential not to have answers as much as questions. Part of my quest centered around my values as my father had few. I learned that I wanted to be trusted, respected, dependable, responsible, and hardworking. I also believed deep down that love was something other people received, so I had to get myself to the place where I felt I deserved that too, and be capable of selflessly giving that. Since I had no idea what that was, love, it was a challenge.

 

While I was in college, I studied religions and comparative psychology. My friends thought I was crazy, but I knew there was more to life than just reacting to everything. I have a very stringent core of beliefs and I follow them. When I met my wife I was amazed at her own process which was similar to mine. She has taught me a lot about compassion and giving. I taught her a lot about planning and expectations.

 

It isn't easy to form your own beliefs, as many think conformity is a sign of health and boundaries, but I haven't found that to be the case. The people who think for themselves, who take a little from this philosophy or that religion are truer to themselves and really know why they believe that way. Nothing turned me off more than when I girl I dated would say, well, that was what my daddy believed or that is the only way to do things or think about things.

 

Everyone's journey is different but the key is to know that the search is the coup de gras to enlightenment and it doesn't stop. You are always learning as the information you process as you become older takes on its own severity and importance according to the life you have planned.

Still in seeking mode,

Grumps

 

Thanks Grump.

[Woggle]

I used to think the way the OP does but having a truly happy and healthy relationship tends to change your perspective and shows you truly good it can be if done the right way. If for some reason I ended up single again I doubt anything can live up to what I have now.

[M30USA]

I used to think the way the OP does but having a truly happy and healthy relationship tends to change your perspective and shows you truly good it can be if done the right way. If for some reason I ended up single again I doubt anything can live up to what I have now.

 

Woggle, you have a unique perspective. On one hand you may seem bitter to some based on your comments about divorce and men getting shafted. But on the other hand, you clearly are happy in your current relationship. I hate to say it, but I think everybody HAS to get burned bigtime at least once in order to know when something good comes along. I wish you the best.

[Woggle]

Woggle, you have a unique perspective. On one hand you may seem bitter to some based on your comments about divorce and men getting shafted. But on the other hand, you clearly are happy in your current relationship. I hate to say it, but I think everybody HAS to get burned bigtime at least once in order to know when something good comes along. I wish you the best.

 

I can better appreciate what I have because I see what is out there and it is not pretty.

[Under The Radar]

I used to think the way the OP does but having a truly happy and healthy relationship tends to change your perspective and shows you truly good it can be if done the right way. If for some reason I ended up single again I doubt anything can live up to what I have now.

 

 

 

 

 

Woggle, any chance your wife has a single twin sister around 40?

 

 

Whatever your answer ...... just let me down gently - LOL.

 

 

Living vicariously through you is a nice consolation prize .

[Mr.White]

Well I haven't scoured these forums since my last post but I have to say relationships are based on a specific person's personality and time in life.

 

I am currently at a uni and I personally believe it is best for myself to study, make new friends, and flirt with multiple women. I want to be selfish with my time as a 19 year old man because I honestly have no idea of who I really am.

 

I do not believe I can love someone when I do not fully understand myself and am experiencing an explosive grow of self exploration and discovery. I love the freedom I now experience of doing anything I want wether it be going to a friend's party or enjoying a nice hike by myself.

 

I can be in a relationship when I own my housing, everything in it, with a stable career to create a family. Until then I will hang out with my friends, drink and flirt with anyone I like!

[Noproblem]

not worth it.