Being friends after D-Day

[violet1]

I'm a WS and I believe there is a fog. My situation isn't like most of the current posters. I was having a lot of marital problems, lonely, resentful, set on divorce, etc. I sought out an affair online. My A lasted about a year. When my MM and I first started chatting, we talked about ourselves, life, hobbies, etc. We emailed daily for almost two months straight before meeting. Not one of our emails discussed anything sexual. We wanted to become friends. When we met, there was instant chemistry. I felt the butterflies, excitement, all the things you feel when something is new or different. It honestly did feel like I was high. That day we had our first kiss and he gave me flowers. I went home feeling like I was on cloud 9. A few days later we had sex, after that I was hooked.

 

I felt this crazy empowerment that first time we had sex. I don't even know how to explain it. Definitely not the same as the first time having sex with a serious bf. I felt like a teenager sneaking off doing what I'm not supposed to do. It felt good and fun. I felt care-free and young again. This was the chemicals in my brain going nuts. I definitely felt an addiction to my exMM. I thought about him constantly, always checked my phone for new messages from him. He did the same, he even described me as his drug one time.

 

I used to say that I wasn't in a fog, there's no such thing, etc. After D Day reality hit me. Unfortunately, I'm still pretty thick in it considering I broke NC a week ago after two months. My MM and I did what I call fire proofed our affair. We intentionally never gave each other our last names, real phone numbers, work locations just to protect ourselves if we got caught. BS's, if your spouse had an online A and they say that they don't know the AP's last name, it's possible they're not lying. What's ironic is that the fire proofing made me realize it wasn't real. He and I used to say that we were soulmates, the ILY's, we were perfect for each other. Seriously though, how can you be in love and plan a life with someone when don't even know their last name? All I know is that seeing him after D Day didn't feel the same. That madly in love feeling wasn't there. My A was an escape and a fantasy.

 

To answer your question, I did want to be his friend after the A ended. I really don't know why. I guess I just didn't want to let go. I thought our friendship was special. Especially since we met online and didn't start out with all the sex talk. Breaking NC was a bad choice I wish I hadn't made. He and I can't be friends. No way, no how...

Edited April 9, 2014 by violet1

[snappytomcat]

I think the word "of" was used instead of "on".

 

Mine was a very powerful relationship. It wasn't healthy, but that's not to say it wasn't a relationship. I did the same thing. I've downplayed its importance to my wife in the R process. My journey in moving past that is mine to take. I confessed to my affair, I don't need to share with my wife all my feelings about the AP at this point.

 

 

A relationship nonetheless, and one that needs grieving. I would be surprised if any WS who was in a "fog" could simply switch off the emotional tap.

w ell my ws might not be the majority,but he could,and did just switch off the emotional,and physical tap with the ow,and it was his term he used in mc,the fog he called it,i never heard of it before he said it

[not-so-sure]

Yea no way they could and call it any form of a "meaningful relationship."

 

What do you think of those and did this apply to you in that you had no intention of leaving your family while starting and going in the A and if so does that change the rationale for at least what kind of relationship you expected it to be then and how you perceive it now?

 

It's difficult for me to parse your last sentence, but without wanting to inflame anything, regardless of its merits, it was a relationship, now it's gone. To me, it's natural to grieve something like that. Put it this way, it wasn't just sex.

 

I know you're fully justified in feeling aggrieved by the idea that one might mourn the loss of a relationship like this, but it is what it is.

 

I'm sorry I can't say I snapped out of the fog and wanted to fix everything straight away. I made some bad choices and the consequences will stay with me for a long time. Don't get me wrong. I'm not wallowing. I'm taking positive steps. And my own journey to recovery is well underway.

 

I can see the affair for what it was now. But I can't press the rewind button and relive any of what I felt, and occasionally still feel. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I can only control what lay ahead not what has passed.

[atreides]

It's difficult for me to parse your last sentence, but without wanting to inflame anything, regardless of its merits, it was a relationship, now it's gone. To me, it's natural to grieve something like that. Put it this way, it wasn't just sex.

 

I know you're fully justified in feeling aggrieved by the idea that one might mourn the loss of a relationship like this, but it is what it is.

 

I'm sorry I can't say I snapped out of the fog and wanted to fix everything straight away. I made some bad choices and the consequences will stay with me for a long time. Don't get me wrong. I'm not wallowing. I'm taking positive steps. And my own journey to recovery is well underway.

 

I can see the affair for what it was now. But I can't press the rewind button and relive any of what I felt, and occasionally still feel. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I can only control what lay ahead not what has passed.

 

Thanks for sharing, what i was asking on the 2nd sentence was... did you go into the affair with the condition of never leaving your family?

If so, do you believe that the love you felt because of this condition changes the relationship in the context of how much love you felt?

[not-so-sure]

Thanks for sharing, what i was asking on the 2nd sentence was... did you go into the affair with the condition of never leaving your family?

If so, do you believe that the love you felt because of this condition changes the relationship in the context of how much love you felt?

 

Hmm. I think the answer was yes. At least initially. As time went on, I became more and more involved with the AP. We worked in the same building so our time together was at least three hours a day. By the time the affair ended I was heavily emotionally invested and the AP was hinting at a future. The affair did end on reasonably mutual terms although I did not end it. This set me on an emotional journey which involved copious amounts of counselling and where I tried to remain friends with her but in the end I couldn't handle it and cut the cord.

 

To be honest, I still think she and I were probably more compatible, but I can be more critical now and see cracks where things may not have worked. I do still get occasional pangs.

 

In the end I was being a selfish person. I know that now.

 

But as to expecting to be friends with her in reconciliation. Even I know that's beyond the pale.

[Patna]

Just reading your thoughts from your perspective brings all of the pain back to the front of my mind and makes me think over whether R is worth it or not. But maybe that can be good.

 

 

BHsign, I'm sorry it brought back the pain, and I hope it wouldn't discourage you from R. As a WS, I think that grieving an ex is a necessary process for healing, and thus R. I went through all the stages of grieving for my exMM. The hardest part to me was the beginning, and that's when denial and bargaining often comes into play. I missed the relationship, the conversations, the time spent etc. It took me about 3.5 months to get over that stage. I'm now in the acceptance stage, and that's when healing starts for me. Of course, I do go back and forth the different stages on my good and bad days, but it's getting better each day, sometimes small steps, sometimes backward steps, but I do see improvements.

 

 

R can only take place when healing starts for both the WS and the BS. Often we only focus on the BS because the BS is underserving of the hurts and we put all the attention to their healing. So as WS, we tend to keep quiet about our struggles and it is also not fair to dump our struggles unto our spouse after all that we had done. The guilt we felt for hurting our spouse also prevent us from sharing openly about such emotions. How could I ever hurt my H further by telling him I do miss my exMM? But do note that missing them is not what we want either. Grieving for a loss in relationship is devastating, and missing that person occurs naturally as a process. If I had a switch, I would wish to turn that switch off and not miss him at all, but I don't have that ability too. It hurts to miss a person, and that is often part of the consequences WS had to deal with quietly. It's only with time that we learnt how to let go and how to handle our emotions. But time will heal for us, so we can finally move on into full R into our M.

 

 

So hang on to your R. Your spouse though undeserving of your grace, do believe that she would need your support as much as you need hers now. Even though we may struggle with the loss of the A, but it does not means we don't want to R or work on our marriage. Its just something WS had to learn to deal with quietly and heal on their own. Its the consequences we suffer. Similarly, the guilt towards our spouse, and sometimes even the hurts of ending the A, are our punishments and can even serve as deterrents for the future.

[anne1707]

My affair was 3 years long almost and yes, I was in the fog. The fog is not an excuse, it does not downplay, it does not mean that feelings were any less real. It did mean that my thought processes were twisted, I was not "myself" in terms of applying my long believed values to my actions. I was choosing not to see what I was doing, not just to my H but also to the xOM. If anything, the fog actually makes affairs worse because you become someone else just to get what you selfishly want without truly considering those around you.

 

For me, when the fog started to clear, I became able to see just how much pain and devastation I had caused for my H and again the xOM. I saw how I had been behaving and I really did not like myself for a long time. Just as my H had to forgive me if we were to reconcile, I also had to forgive myself.

[Patna]

A total generalization I know, but it seems from these boards and in my experience, women fall harder for the AP then men. Women seem to see these relationships as real and loving even after they end than men do. JMO and maybe why BH sigh you feel the way you do about the post. Do you see your wife and her emotions in Patnas words while it seems BWs are more like, no I don't see that from my husband. Do women react differently after dday than men?

 

 

I think men and women do behave differently, not in the emotions part, but the handling of the emotions. Men are generally able to compartmentalize the emotions after the A ended, while woman tends to have this tendency to "replay" the past and hold on to these emotions longer than necessary.

 

 

My exMM broke down and cried in front of me 2 weeks after Dday. He was crying because we both know that it was the end of our relationship and he actually grieve about it. It's only human to grieve, but it's another thing to show it to our spouse, especially when we had already hurt them. His wife obviously did not see this side of him, nor did my husband saw my tears over my exMM.

 

 

But to grief over a loss of relationship does not mean he wants to restart the A again. He didn't want to restart the affair, but he wanted us to keep the contact and the friendship. He told his wife that he was in NC with me, when in actual fact, he was the one who kept wanting to maintain the friendship. His wife believed that he is in NC with me, and believe that they are in R. His wife blocked me all his phone and watsapp, but he would unblock me each morning on his way to work and he would block me again on his way home. I started NC on him recently, because the friendship was toxic to me healing emotionally.

 

 

Another note is that it also depends on whether was there a Dday. Dday are as traumatizing to the WS as to the BS, and it just makes sense we downplay everything to the traumas already going on. We do feel guilty during the A, but we often compartmentalize them in order to continue the A, but during Dday, it comes full force when we see the hurts we caused in reality. Guilt can cause us to consciously stop loving the AP going forth in future, but it doesn't mean the past feelings disappear overnight. Just as M has a shared past, so do A, but the M shared past is no doubt stronger and richer in history.

 

It also depend on who had the Dday. My exMM had the Dday, so he faced the full blow and trauma of it. I didn't, and I do think that was partly why I think he could move on faster than me. I didn't had that full impact, thus I dwelled more in the breakup than him because he has to now focus on R with his wife and handling the crisis at home, and he didn't have much energy left to dwell on the breakup. However, when things were more settled at his home, that's when he came back to contact me. So it does sometimes take the AP that has the Dday a longer time to miss the AP after the dusk is settled at home.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Patna

[Scott Thomas]

Patna, thank you for sharing.

 

Just one question: Will you be as accommodating if your H decided to have an A with your friend?

 

Food for thought...

[Friskyone4u]

I believe that because of the differences in the way men and women process things, that it is is no surprise that most, not all, of the comments about wanting to stay friends are coming from women. Men probably do compartmentalize the physical and emotional aspects more than women. Because women normally need some emotional involvement before preceding to sex, not always, their is more to dissolve when they are caught or confess, and they tend to be more likely to hold on like in a romance novel.

That being said, I still think this trying to justify staying friends with AP is just a coping mechanism to try to keep the fantasy still alive, and greatly increases the chances of a restart since emotions are being diverted from BS to AP.

If you are the BS and let this go on you are asking for trouble. If you are WS, and you hide that from your partner you are still cheating. The pain you have is a price you have to pay for the poor decisions.

Violet, does your his and know you just broke NC? If not, then you just betrayed him again

[Patna]

Patna, thank you for sharing.

 

Just one question: Will you be as accommodating if your H decided to have an A with your friend?

 

Food for thought...

 

Hi Scott Thomas, I wouldn't, because like I said before, affairs are clearly wrong. It doesn't mean that just because we were WS means we think affairs are justified. I would rather say we entered an A because we had been selfish. However, that was my past and am moving forward with the healing and R.

[waterwoman]

Funnily enough a week prior to dday, H's OW told him she had to end the relationship as she realised she was never going to part of his real life. She was jealous, has got resentful over the presents H had gven me for my birthday, and didn't like the fact that we had as a family made a big fuss over H's 50th (that excluded her). He was in work talking about what we had done and what a great time he had had. She told him it was over and they would 'only' text each other as friends. Hmmmm..... the texts were very friendly so as far as I could see it woudln't have taken much to get it back to how it was before 'the end'.

 

Immediately post dday H honestly seemed to think that we could all three of us be friends because she was a really nice person and she was having a hard time. And truth be told in any other circumstances I guess we could have been

[road]

 

 

I calmly told him that if he maintained a "friendship" with his xAP, I intended to initiate and maintain a friendship with ALL my former college BFs. That would be okay then, yes????

 

HE looked gobsmacked as if he finally GOT IT.

 

 

 

 

This post is useless without WH's photo or video of his face as you told him this.

[Hope Shimmers]

This post is useless without WH's photo or video of his face as you told him this.

 

Is it that weird to be casual friends with high school and college boyfriends? I am. Not anything regular or serious, but friends nonetheless. That was 20 or 30 years ago! I still remain friendly with my ex-fiance - we broke up in 1989. I don't see that as strange.

[road]

Is it that weird to be casual friends with high school and college boyfriends? I am. Not anything regular or serious, but friends nonetheless. That was 20 or 30 years ago! I still remain friendly with my ex-fiance - we broke up in 1989. I don't see that as strange.

 

 

 

Ex's are Ex's for a reason. That is why they are part of your past. Do not belong in your present or future.

[gettingstronger]

I don't go out of my way to be friends with ex's from my past-if they are part of our circle thats one thing but I guess for me-its a big world out there and I surround myself with positive influences on my life and my marriage- I weed my garden often-

[Hope Shimmers]

Ex's are Ex's for a reason. That is why they are part of your past. Do not belong in your present or future.

 

I never thought about it either way - can take it or leave it. They don't mean anything other than just casual friends. I don't see it as restrictive as you do. To me it seems weird to be freaked out about talking to people you were close to 30 years ago.

[Patna]

Is it that weird to be casual friends with high school and college boyfriends? I am. Not anything regular or serious, but friends nonetheless. That was 20 or 30 years ago! I still remain friendly with my ex-fiance - we broke up in 1989. I don't see that as strange.

 

Hope, I believe exs can be friends. But affairs are a different story because the relationship involved other parties. The BS will never be able to accept the friendship. They would be paranoid if there is still friendship and even if it's platonic friendship, it would only serves to remind them of the betrayal. Besides, they wouldn't want their spouse to still be emotionally invested with the AP because there will still be some sort of attachment and emotional closeness in friendship. So to respect the BS, we often had to have NC. When I told my exMM that we had to have NC, he was upset and kept insisting that we could still be friends. I asked him what if his wife finds out that we still kept in contact, and he replied that if there wasn't anymore physical part, then he don't see what's wrong. But I know that from a wife's perspective, she would not be able to accept it, and I don't wish to cause a 2nd Dday. Even if there was no sex, I know his wife cannot accept her H still calling me everyday.

[Hope Shimmers]

Hope, I believe exs can be friends. But affairs are a different story because the relationship involved other parties. The BS will never be able to accept the friendship. They would be paranoid if there is still friendship and even if it's platonic friendship, it would only serves to remind them of the betrayal. Besides, they wouldn't want their spouse to still be emotionally invested with the AP because there will still be some sort of attachment and emotional closeness in friendship. So to respect the BS, we often had to have NC. When I told my exMM that we had to have NC, he was upset and kept insisting that we could still be friends. I asked him what if his wife finds out that we still kept in contact, and he replied that if there wasn't anymore physical part, then he don't see what's wrong. But I know that from a wife's perspective, she would not be able to accept it, and I don't wish to cause a 2nd Dday. Even if there was no sex, I know his wife cannot accept her H still calling me everyday.

 

My ex-MM's wife accepted it, and ex-MM and I remain in contact (not emotional closeness).

[Patna]

My ex-MM's wife accepted it, and ex-MM and I remain in contact (not emotional closeness).

 

Then I don't see what's wrong my exMM's wife refused and she blocked me on his phone, even the apps, and Facebook.

[italianjob]

I guess the perspective on this topic is quite different for an OW/OM who is single. From their point of view the xAP is more or less the same as any other ex; they see nothing wrong with staying friends, and should the flame reignite, so be it.

It's not the same thing for WSs who have decided to R, because they can't take the risk, and their commitment to R necessarily includes doing everything that's needed for the BS to feel safe.

I'm also quite sure that for a single OW/OM (and sometimes for WSs who had LTAs with singles, if specific circumstances allowed them to spend a lot of time together) the affair was indeed a true relationship like others. But in other situations, affairs are not true relationship, but rather part of a relationship, in which you have sex, fun, and play lovey dovey while the unpleasant or boring parts, and the call of duty are left in the official relationship. That is a fairy tale situation and usually it doesn't stand the impact of real life.

[BrokenPrincess]

My xMM and I were both cake eaters so when he had a DDay, we went immediate NC, as stipulated by his W to R. However that doesn't mean he doesn't *wish* we could at least be friends, as he just told me a few weeks ago. There's no way his W would be ok with that, and she shouldn't be, because there are still feelings there, even after a year and a half after DDay.

 

Maybe we just haven't had enough consequences and/or time to get to the point that other WS have posted here about wanting nothing to do with the person who helped them hurt their families

[purplesorrow]

Is it real friendship? If someone encouraged me to deceive my spouse and help me destroy my family, hurt my kids, I wouldn't consider them a friend. The friends I have would have made me take a real look at my choices and behavior, but would not condone such destruction. For my situation his ow was nothing more than his partner in crime and he treated her as such.

[veritas lux mea]

Of course you are completely right, there is no way they can be friends. But it is your H who hurt you not his OW - she does not know you, she did not make any maritral promises to you. I would not accept any contact, I know what i means. It means the connection is still there. havng said that, my MM is miserable without me and me without him in any way. So what do you do then?

 

If a man I didn't know chose to drive drunk and crashed in to my husband that person still hurt me. Yes the spouse is to blame for reaking the vows. But AP aren't off the hook morally if they involved themselves with a married person. Knowing the person has nothing to do with it.

[purplesorrow]

Of course you are completely right, there is no way they can be friends. But it is your H who hurt you not his OW - she does not know you, she did not make any maritral promises to you. I would not accept any contact, I know what i means. It means the connection is still there. havng said that, my MM is miserable without me and me without him in any way. So what do you do then?

 

She isn't innocent of wrong doing. My WH (stbx) is indeed the home wrecker, his ow was just the cheap tool he used to do it. Why did she feel a need to apologize if she wasn't wrong? I'm not even sure why you included about her not hurting me in your reply. I held my WH accountable, she isn't a factor. Her short appearance in my life is done.