The foggy WS

[BHsigh]

Thank you Mods for opening this thread back up.

 

Hi and welcome back to your thread violet1.

 

I know on the other thread you said that you were going back and forth on telling or not telling your husband, how are thing progressing?

[Sub]

I posted this thread because I wanted to discuss the fog and healing. Instead the breaking of the NC and whether I should tell my H has become the main focus.

 

I believe some may feel that the two are related, though. I can only speak for myself, but what expedited the healing for me/us WAS disclosure and honesty. My WW broke NC and saw the OM 4 months after D-Day. She came clean about it and told me why the day after. Discussing the "why" with me, her H, helped her move on from the OM. And even though I was angry, that sliver of honesty on her part gave me a little more hope for us long-term.

[BetrayedH]

...the more I think about it, I believe I broke NC because I've been insecure with my R from day 1. How do I really know that he wants it for the right reasons? At the time of my D Day, it was only a few weeks after the death. He wasn't working full time either. Sometimes I think he only stayed with me because of my stepdaughter. Now he has a full time job, but he doesn't make enough to support him and his daughter. I make more than he does and could afford a place myself. He has a friend whose gf cheats on him constantly. I asked my H why he stays. He said the friend stays because he can't afford his mortgage by himself. I often wonder if he's secretly planning his getaway. In ways I feel maybe we both have secrets.

 

Violet, I hope you and the moderators don't mind me pulling this quote from the other thread so we can continue our discussion.

 

I have to say that I think you've touched on something important here. As a former BS, I can say that initial reason for staying are all over the map. I felt like chaos and anarchy had entered my world (I was totally blindsided) and I really just wanted to preserve the marriage. I was desperate and fearful. I didn't want to lose my marriage when the affair was bad enough. I feared losing my family. I can tell you that fear is not a great way to make decisions but in the beginning, that's what I did.

 

I think you're right to be a bit nervous about why your husband chooses to stay. And I empathize greatly with you. Many, many waywards fear that their BS is just going to up and quit. Desperation and fear will eventually wear off. It's actually pretty common for anger to come much later. It took me a few months to get angry and I don't think it started until I felt 'safe' that she wasn't going anywhere.

 

He is probably in a similar place, wondering why you are choosing to stay when you clearly had both feet out the door and waiting for you to decide that you're done since the marriage is so miserable now. And to be honest, a lot of waywards stay out of guilt, obligation, or fear. These aren't great reasons.

 

There's probably some truth to the idea that you broke NC because you're unsure if your reconciliation will work and you're afraid to end up alone. So, here you are, both scared to death of what the other is thinking and what they're going to do. You know what that calls for? Honesty. Don't make decisions based on your fears; confront them. Think very hard about exactly why you're staying and share it with him. Expect and demand that he do the same. Get rid of these secrets. Explore your fears with him. Explore his fears, too. Delve into them. Hold nothing back. Reassure him in the areas where you can. Show him that you're hiding nothing. Show him that you are his partner in this. If you're going to do this marriage, go in with both feet. Show him that it's safe to go in with both feet and that he doesn't have to worry about what you're not saying. Does it mean that you'll be vulnerable? Heck yeah. Is that scary? Sure it is. Is there a chance he might leave? Yes. But if you hedge your bets, or hold things back, or keep the OM as a back-up plan then you'll never really achieve that level of intimacy and trust that comes from a marriage where it is truly the two of you against the world. That's what I want for you and for him. Why even stay in a marriage that is less than that?

[violet1]

Hi and welcome back to your thread violet1.

 

I know on the other thread you said that you were going back and forth on telling or not telling your husband, how are thing progressing?

I'm still feeling conflicted. Thanks for asking though.

[violet1]

I believe some may feel that the two are related, though. I can only speak for myself, but what expedited the healing for me/us WAS disclosure and honesty. My WW broke NC and saw the OM 4 months after D-Day. She came clean about it and told me why the day after. Discussing the "why" with me, her H, helped her move on from the OM. And even though I was angry, that sliver of honesty on her part gave me a little more hope for us long-term.

Thank you for sharing. Your story gives me a little hope. Was the 2nd D Day harder for you than the 1st one?

[ClemsonTigers]

She needs her father and I to be strong. !

 

Yes she does.

 

The best way for you and your husband to actually BE strong for your step daughter is to build (or rebuild) an awesome marriage. A rock solid foundation of honesty and truth is a fundamental first step in construction and when rebuilding a marriage.

 

Breaking "no contact" was bad, but it is very common. Almost every romantic affair includes at least one "closure" meeting where things often reignite quickly and quasi-passionately as the affair partners [foolishly] think they can end things on their own terms and/or keep contact professional or whatever. "closure" is a fools game. It's the realization you can't control yourself in this situation. It's only made things worse. Now you've got another lie to conceal. More fear. More hurt. HOPEFULLY, you've learned the "closure is bullcrap" lesson and are more committed than ever to maintaining "no contact".

 

If so, What's your plan? How do you intend to maintain "no contact" this time? Could you use some help from your husband???

 

I submit that when telling your husband about what you did (breaking no contact and having sex with OM) is a perfect time to ask for his help. Not because you are powerless regarding OM but rather that the two of you AS A COUPLE and ACCOUNTABLE to one another form a much more powerful alliance against a resumption of the affair than you, by yourself, in secret can accomplish. Ask your husband for help and, in so doing, you'll actually find yourself realizing just how much he cares about you and cherishes your marriage.

 

Your husband already committed to reconciliation. He's not likely to change his mind over this. His instincts probably already have him feeling uneasy and depressed over your recent undisclosed behavior because shame is a difficult thing to hide. Maybe he's even gotten wise and is key logging you (if he were in my office he'd be doing that - as a way to help you and save the marriage…not to punish or police you).

 

Honesty is the right thing to do and you won't regret doing the right thing. Even if it turns out however you most fear…it will be an honest outcome and, thus, survivable. Lies, they just result in more lies and pain/depression all around. You are married TODAY, please act like it. Give him a chance to show you how tough he is. He may surprise you.

 

Regardless, glad to see you reconsidering.

[veritas lux mea]

When I confessed to my husband his reaction was very mild compared to what you read on here or see on tv. So mild that I felt like I was holding my breath. Waiting for the blow up. Waiting for him to tell me his ducks were in a row and I had to get out of his house. Even waiting for him to tell me he had a mistress. His compassion and forgiveness to me was worse than any anger. It made me feel worthless. Plus, my thinking had got so screwed up that I had decided we were doomed. Read some of my first posts here. That was me a crazy biatch. But slowly as I pushed xMM out and saw my actions in the full light of day I stopped hating myself and all desire for the affair went out the window. But honesty at all times with my husband helped. Being done with the double mind and secrets. I also have dealt with the issue of never having children (still hard but getting better).

 

Keep putting one foot in front of the other. Be honest and genuine. And be the type of person you want to be so you can forgive yourself.

[violet1]

BH,

 

One of my biggest struggles is being truly vulnerable around another. I know it stems my childhood, but I hate the feeling of being vulnerable. I don't even like people to see me cry. My H hasn't seen me cry that often because I usually hide it.

 

I guess what worries me is that my H doesn't talk about the A. I start wondering in my mind why he's with me? It discourages me when I read stories of men who say they would never want a woman who cheats. Or they regret going through R. The thought that my H is only with me for financial reasons constantly races through my mind.

 

It may sound like justification, but I honestly do believe that my insecurities with R caused me to break NC. I don't think I'm afraid to be alone. In fact, I feel like I don't deserve love and that I should be alone forever. I know one thing for sure. Breaking NC has caused so much confusion.

 

WS's reading this and are thinking about breaking NC after D Day, please don't do it. All it will do is cause you to fall back into limbo land.

[Sub]

Thank you for sharing. Your story gives me a little hope. Was the 2nd D Day harder for you than the 1st one?

 

No. Unfortunately, you find out your W has an A, and they become capable of anything, even if you do believe they love you. The re-gaining of trust was still in its beginning stages. I knew there were still unanswered questions on her part - which we had discussed often - in regards to the OM. So it didn't really shock me. (I almost expected it in a weird way, to be honest.) The first time I was more heartbroken, more blown away, felt more alone. I was just angry the second time, more frustrated.

[BetrayedH]

BH,

 

One of my biggest struggles is being truly vulnerable around another. I know it stems my childhood, but I hate the feeling of being vulnerable. I don't even like people to see me cry. My H hasn't seen me cry that often because I usually hide it.

 

I guess what worries me is that my H doesn't talk about the A. I start wondering in my mind why he's with me? It discourages me when I read stories of men who say they would never want a woman who cheats. Or they regret going through R. The thought that my H is only with me for financial reasons constantly races through my mind.

 

It may sound like justification, but I honestly do believe that my insecurities with R caused me to break NC. I don't think I'm afraid to be alone. In fact, I feel like I don't deserve love and that I should be alone forever. I know one thing for sure. Breaking NC has caused so much confusion.

 

WS's reading this and are thinking about breaking NC after D Day, please don't do it. All it will do is cause you to fall back into limbo land.

 

I completely believe that your insecurities about your reconciliation contributed to you breaking NC. I guess I was wrong about you using the OM as a back-up plan, though. It does leave me curious about what you thought it would do for you. But I'm not sure that the answers you seek really have much to do with the OM or even the breach of NC.

 

I do think that this communication gap is a major concern, though. You should be communicating more than you ever have before in your life. Are you volunteering to have affair-related discussions? In MC?

[dichotomy]

BH,

 

 

I guess what worries me is that my H doesn't talk about the A. I start wondering in my mind why he's with me? It discourages me when I read stories of men who say they would never want a woman who cheats. Or they regret going through R. The thought that my H is only with me for financial reasons constantly races through my mind.

 

It may sound like justification, but I honestly do believe that my insecurities with R caused me to break NC. I don't think I'm afraid to be alone. In fact, I feel like I don't deserve love and that I should be alone forever. I know one thing for sure. Breaking NC has caused so much confusion.

 

WS's reading this and are thinking about breaking NC after D Day, please don't do it. All it will do is cause you to fall back into limbo land.

 

What if its a reason but not the ONLY reason, or even the main reason.

 

What are the reasons for getting married and staying married though all the years - it is just a feeling for your partner. Or is marriage and family a sum of the parts. Even when there is no cheating - you don't think there are times - years in fact were one or more stay committed and in it for reasons other than romantic love? For family, for commitment, for a life together.

 

After my wife's EA and other related horrible acts in the early part of our relationship and marriage, I stayed for a number of reasons. Love was one (but certainly NOT romantic feel-ey love - I was hurting). But It was not just one thing, but certainly children and money were part of the list of reasons. Also commitment to marriage and other lists.

 

What is love ? What kind of love don't you think you deserve? Do people love others because that other "deserves it"? or because they choose too. Do you love your husband?

Edited April 16, 2014 by dichotomy

[badkarma2013]

I must state before i post if YOU are not a BS pls refrain from commenting on my post...If YOU have never been to Beruit, dont tell me how you think it was.

 

I have seen on this forum and in life WWS leave BH and families with nothing but scorched earth and expect ... IM SORRY to fix it.

 

LIE and Deceive and Betray for years and Expect for others to just accept their behavior with out retribution...NOT ME.

 

I paid a heavy price .for my relentless pursuit of the sorid details

...but when EVERYTHING came into the light ,that second i knew it was over...no crying no more trickle truth,no more Marriage.

 

Better to live sad with the TRUTH,than happy with a LIE!

[badkarma2013]

Violet1 ....I have no animosity toward you personally ...However as a former BH is would not stay with you 5 seconds...My WW Lied,Deceived and betrayed me and did things with her AP that still boggles the mind...R forget it...people ( it seems BHs more) struggle for years with What WW did...

 

 

and really NEVER get over it...WHY STAY?

[badkarma2013]

[COLOR=#0000ff]R for the BS:

It's the little triggers, little stabs that will be there even 5 years from now, or 10, or 20.

 

It's the disbelief BS feels and will always feel, never quite understanding how WS could have done that.

But WS did.

 

WS may have said over and over that they have told the full truth and BS might have decided to believe them. But BS always knows that WS has told them as much truth as WS thought was necessary, not the 100% truth that BS thought was necessary. WS will never reveal what they were really thinking at the time. BS will be left with nagging doubts forever, powerless to do anything about it because BS wasn't there or wasn't inside WS's head.

That is the hardest thing to live with.

 

EA or PA. A month or a year. Sex once or a hundred times. One lie or fifty. It doesn't matter. All the damage was done in the moment that WS took that step. It destroyed what was, and what will never be the same again no matter what WS does.

That time is gone.

 

BS thought WS was someone they could trust with their life, their best friend in the world, their confidant, someone who would always stand by them.

That's what BS thought, and BS was wrong, so wrong.

 

BS sometimes remembers what it was like when there wasn't that little cloud overhead.

And feels a pang as they think of when the sky was blue.

 

BS would have never chosen this for themselves. Yet somehow they found themselves in it.

 

Now it's Plan B. And it will always be Plan B.

 

R is the Plan B version of marriage.

 

It might be a strange thing to say, but so grievous is the wound of betrayal that had WS died, the pain would be easier. The sadness would be a different kind of sadness.

A more tolerable kind of sadness.[/COLOR]

[Spectre]

I didn't think it was okay. I thought I could be friends with him. Yes, it sounds ridiculously stupid. I just need to divorce my H so he can find someone better. I really don't deserve love and I know that. Every time I tell him that he says he only wants me. I can't figure out why. I'm one of those people who should just be alone. I was never like this before. I never cheated before. I had been cheated on, felt the pain. I never thought I'd become the cheater. I never thought I'd have such a need for validation like this. This really is so unlike me. I'm the one who sacrifices everything for others and always gets hurt in the end. I'm not the one who causes pain to others. This is just not me, but yet I feel this crazy addiction to this other man and I don't know why. don't even recognize who I am anymore. That is how lost I am. I thought things were getting better, but I had to go and screw it all up.

 

Yep, you called it, it was just plain dumb to think you could be friends with the guy you cheated with. I don't even know how you even thought it was okay. You are also right, divorce your husband, set him free to find someone who won't betray him. Your husband says he only wants you? That is fine, but you don't only want him, and he needs to be made to understand that.

 

This other man, you know, the home wrecker? He is a scumbag. Get him out of your head. He is trash, ask yourself why you want trash? Set the husband free and definitely get rid of this prince charming of another man of yours too.

 

If you have even a tiny shred of respect for this man? This time next week you will of begun divorce proceedings. This may be crude, but: put up or shut up. Either you have zero respect for him as a person or you do respect. If you do? Get him to understand he deserves better. I can't even imagine how your husband feels. This poor guy decides to forgive you..and you can't even stay away from this utter scum of another man?

Edited April 19, 2014 by Spectre

[BetrayedH]

[COLOR=#0000ff]R for the BS:

It's the little triggers, little stabs that will be there even 5 years from now, or 10, or 20.

 

It's the disbelief BS feels and will always feel, never quite understanding how WS could have done that.

But WS did.

 

WS may have said over and over that they have told the full truth and BS might have decided to believe them. But BS always knows that WS has told them as much truth as WS thought was necessary, not the 100% truth that BS thought was necessary. WS will never reveal what they were really thinking at the time. BS will be left with nagging doubts forever, powerless to do anything about it because BS wasn't there or wasn't inside WS's head.

That is the hardest thing to live with.

 

EA or PA. A month or a year. Sex once or a hundred times. One lie or fifty. It doesn't matter. All the damage was done in the moment that WS took that step. It destroyed what was, and what will never be the same again no matter what WS does.

That time is gone.

 

BS thought WS was someone they could trust with their life, their best friend in the world, their confidant, someone who would always stand by them.

That's what BS thought, and BS was wrong, so wrong.

 

BS sometimes remembers what it was like when there wasn't that little cloud overhead.

And feels a pang as they think of when the sky was blue.

 

BS would have never chosen this for themselves. Yet somehow they found themselves in it.

 

Now it's Plan B. And it will always be Plan B.

 

R is the Plan B version of marriage.

 

It might be a strange thing to say, but so grievous is the wound of betrayal that had WS died, the pain would be easier. The sadness would be a different kind of sadness.

A more tolerable kind of sadness.[/COLOR]

 

I think there's a lot of truth in this post except that it doesn't represent the amount of repair that can be done by a truly remorseful wayward spouse. There are many great examples here - where embracing honesty, regardless of how painful it is (sometimes BECAUSE of how painful it is), restores an immense amount if faith in the WS. The BS and WS learn to love one another, warts and all. There are a myriad of happily reconciled couples on here but the one thing that seems to be universal among them is that the wayward got brutally honest with their BS and themselves. The theme from the post above is that the deception is the most damaging thing and with that theme, I wholeheartedly agree.

[badkarma2013]

Some people may and do Reconcile ...I believe of all the BS who chose this route

only 15-25 percent live in a happy marriage after...WHY?

 

Believe me..I Received all the Brutal Honesty a BH could handle.

 

My dealbreaker was after i outed him to his BW...He came to my office and showed me pics of my wife doing things, she for 20 years said was DISGUSTING and made her sick...YET there she was doing this and much worse...

 

I stayed doing the 180 and continued to search for the TRUTH...I found out more than one should have to bear...the Second i felt she confessed everything , i knew it was over and filed for d. I knew i could NEVER FORGIVE MUCH LESS FORGET...

[Appreciate]

Do you view your wife as a sl*t now?

 

How bad did this sexual betrayal impact your self-esteem? Where are you now on that?

 

How old is your wife?

[hard2c]

I didn't think it was okay. I thought I could be friends with him. Yes, it sounds ridiculously stupid. I just need to divorce my H so he can find someone better. I really don't deserve love and I know that. Every time I tell him that he says he only wants me. I can't figure out why. I'm one of those people who should just be alone. I was never like this before. I never cheated before. I had been cheated on, felt the pain. I never thought I'd become the cheater. I never thought I'd have such a need for validation like this. This really is so unlike me. I'm the one who sacrifices everything for others and always gets hurt in the end. I'm not the one who causes pain to others. This is just not me, but yet I feel this crazy addiction to this other man and I don't know why. don't even recognize who I am anymore. That is how lost I am. I thought things were getting better, but I had to go and screw it all up.

violet you wrote the letter I 24 times this indicates possible narcissism. Makes me wonder if you are here for help or for attention. The fact that you excuse your betrayal by blaming it on your mother speaks volumes many people have suffered at the hands of their mothers yet never cheated on their spouses. Did om give you a lot of TLC, is the real reason why you broke NC?

 

Logic dictates that a spouse will only tolerate so much abuse before H begins to disconnect. H may appear forgiving and patient. When in fact he is disconnecting himself from you emotionally, it's only a matter of continued abuse before your marriage becomes celibate. Then H will spend more time away from the house until "it's two ships passing in the night" btw he'll still love you,however the intimacy will die.

[badkarma2013]

Without a doubt ...Destroyed my self image a self esteem ....until i got angry,

 

Then i went on a quest for the truth...When caught she confessed some...it wasnt until the OMs wife threw him out and he showed me the pics that over the upcoming months did she really come out with it.

 

She really did not get the unholy damage she had caused.

 

she was 45 at the time of affair ...om was 38 married 2 kids.

 

I have found a degree of happiness with a beautiful woman who cares for me,

however at times the images dance in my head,and i fear they will always be there.

[hard2c]

@badkarma

xww cheated on me with 4 different men that I know of over 12 years of marriage. When we met I was out of her league and believe me it was a hellish marriage, with constant nights out on the town- talk of ons.

 

After every affair we began to disconnect leading to a divorce.

[Friskyone4u]

Violet, I am not sure if you are a narcissist or not, and it is obvious you are struggling here with what to do. I also think you have a better chance of R with you husband that will last if you tell him the truth. The alternative is you will constantly be leading your life knowing that there is the chance he will find out, you will confess out of guilt or you will break NC again because you can get away with it. I think if he finds out you made another bad mistake right away but confessed that he is more likely to forgive you again than if he finds out there has been another extended period of lies and deception.

I believe what is really stopping you from confessing is that if you do it your husband will certainly demand a hell of a lot more transparency , not be as trusting , and that in essence will force you to end the possibility of restarting the affair. Right now, despite what you say, you do have the option of sending an e mail to AP again anytime you want of need to. And it is highly unlikely that he would turn down this great sex again. Most men will be happy to oblige you.

By telling your his and that option, even though now you claim you do t want it anymore , will be go e for you and you will be totally dependent on fixing your marraige with no escape outlet. I think that is what scares you

Just my opinion

[violet1]

violet you wrote the letter I 24 times this indicates possible narcissism. Makes me wonder if you are here for help or for attention. The fact that you excuse your betrayal by blaming it on your mother speaks volumes many people have suffered at the hands of their mothers yet never cheated on their spouses. Did om give you a lot of TLC, is the real reason why you broke NC?

 

Logic dictates that a spouse will only tolerate so much abuse before H begins to disconnect. H may appear forgiving and patient. When in fact he is disconnecting himself from you emotionally, it's only a matter of continued abuse before your marriage becomes celibate. Then H will spend more time away from the house until "it's two ships passing in the night" btw he'll still love you,however the intimacy will die.

No, I'm not narcissistic. I'm very conflict avoidant. I'm not blaming my mother for my affair, but you have no idea what I've gone through. The hell she put me through as a child did cause me to have a lot of issues. I was having a really bad day when I posted things on this thread. I don't want attention. If you met me IRL, you would be shocked. I'm very shy and soft spoken.

 

I agree, there are a lot of people who have had a horrible childhood and don't behave like this. My sibling is one of them. I didn't deal with the abuse in a healthy manner. I don't deal with confrontation and conflict well. I'm very conflict avoidant. I have got an appointment to see an IC so I can work on my issues.

 

Just because I don't want to tell my H doesn't mean I don't want help. There's no golden rule on how to live. People make comments that I only want to protect, but that's not true! I haven't posted on this thread lately because as it sits now I don't plan on telling my H. I don't want to argue back and forth with others or try to defend my current stance.

[hard2c]

There's a pattern to female adulterers they marry men who love them more than they love their husbands. Finance is the fetters that bind them to a loveless marriage, where the only escape is an affair with a younger virile male.

 

Life for them is meaningless; they are trapped in a big house with a cold hand to hold and a old face to behold. Could life get any worse! Marriage is a trap but adultery sets them free is their creed.

 

X ww came to me in need of shelter and alimentation, after she had rested up and eaten to her fill did she set out in my car towards the nightly festivities much like she done prior to meeting me. No she wouldn't let me accompany her, since I was obtuse and couldn't dance any way I as a total bore. What xww didn't do was to check the desk top for self help websites like LS community where I went to get help and healing which enabled me to divorce xww.

 

Violet what if H is soliciting help for his love addiction. How much more fun will you have until he divorces you. What will you do and where will you go.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Violet:

 

I wish you well on untangling the the coping skills you used as a child. As a child it served its purpose as you had no control in the situation or were of the age to even know/process it all correctly.

 

As an adult you do have the capacity to change...coping skills, thought processes, situations...etc.

 

I think you will find...as you become a healthier you..you will not want to engage those previous unhealthy coping skills in the slightest. As it will undermine who/what you want for yourself.

 

We change by actually doing...not by saying.