He's dumping me...

[somedude81]

Not really. I'm get unhappy with the situations we end up in, but not unhappy with HIM

I really, really wish you had more relationship experience. You just don't know what's out there. You've dated a couple of losers and now you're with this guy who is better than them, but still very flawed.

 

What would your ideal relationship/boyfriend be like, and how close is your BF to it?

[Phoe]

Wow, so there are like no guys you can talk to who actually know you. I was hoping you could talk to some guys who were close to you and they could give you their opinion on how your BF is acting.

 

Obviously you don't have any sisters or female cousins. Any girl friends you feel close enough to? Anyone at all whose opinion you value?

 

Advice and input from people online who never met you is only worth so much.

 

My best friend is the only person (other than my boyfriend) who I am close enough with to really divulge stuff like this...

 

 

the problem with her, though, is that our views on relationships are VERY different.

 

 

I adore her to death, but her idea of a relationship is finding a man she can whip into being her bitch, making him leap through hoops, cheating on him and leaving him, then making him beg for her back. Her fiancee has gone through the wringer on her behalf.

 

 

She'd probably tell me to smack my boyfriend around a bit, no joke.

 

 

She really likes my boyfriend though. She's on my side when things go rough, but she always hopes me and him work it out and can tell that we adore each other. She sees his actions towards me and is thrilled with his kindness towards me.

 

 

One of the hugest issues here though, is me getting paranoid that he wants to leave. He goes MIA on me for a few days after a disagreement and I thought he was done. Turns out his mind was on a totally different plane...

 

 

I know my tendencies to overanalyze are not easy to tolerate. A less tolerant man would have left. Less tolerant men HAVE left. But day after day he tells me that he accepts me for me, and even though I might drive him bonkers, I wouldn't be ME if I wasn't.

 

 

My worries and my inability to believe he wants to stay would be the thing to drive him away.

 

 

I trust him completely, I know he is faithful. But I struggle to trust in myself, to trust that I CAN and DO make him happy. I struggle to believe that he would actually want to spend his life with me. The concept that any one person would tolerate my quirks on a daily basis and not want to run away astounds me.

 

 

I'm stuck within my own mind 24/7 and it drives me mad. I wouldn't blame anyone for wanting to get away after getting extended amounts of exposure to it.

[Phoe]

I really, really wish you had more relationship experience. You just don't know what's out there. You've dated a couple of losers and now you're with this guy who is better than them, but still very flawed.

 

What would your ideal relationship/boyfriend be like, and how close is your BF to it?

 

Well, I never created an ideal, it always seemed rather silly to do so.

 

 

I only ever wanted basic things. Core necessities. And I am now getting those things. There are a few problems thrown in with those things, but I am getting everything I ever wanted and for that I am grateful.

 

 

I suppose an ideal, would be the boyfriend I have now, but with a reduction in the drama we find ourselves in. For us to be better at preventing it. Which we have gotten better at.

 

 

Little things that we may have argued about 2 months ago, we have learned from. Today he needed me to pick him up again and he accidentally sent me to the wrong location. He called me asking where I was, I told him I was where he told me to be. He said he didn't mean there, that he meant somewhere else. I explained that He specifically told me to go to the place where I was. OK. Right or wrong, whatever, he's not here, gotta go pick him up where he actually is. Drop it. I arrive to pick him up, as soon as he gets in my truck "I'm sorry baby, I did tell you wrong, I remember now." - easy day. 2 months ago we would've argued about that until we were blue in the face. We are both MASSIVELY stubborn. We would've both insisted we were right had this happened 2 months ago, and instead we both decided it was not worth it. We've learned

[somedude81]

My best friend is the only person (other than my boyfriend) who I am close enough with to really divulge stuff like this...

 

 

the problem with her, though, is that our views on relationships are VERY different.

 

 

I adore her to death, but her idea of a relationship is finding a man she can whip into being her bitch, making him leap through hoops, cheating on him and leaving him, then making him beg for her back. Her fiancee has gone through the wringer on her behalf.

 

 

She'd probably tell me to smack my boyfriend around a bit, no joke.

 

 

She really likes my boyfriend though. She's on my side when things go rough, but she always hopes me and him work it out and can tell that we adore each other. She sees his actions towards me and is thrilled with his kindness towards me.

Ha ha ha! Yeah I wouldn't turn to her for relationship advice.

 

It sounds like we've all you've got.

 

LOL, it's almost like you're the female version of me in a few ways

 

One of the hugest issues here though, is me getting paranoid that he wants to leave. He goes MIA on me for a few days after a disagreement and I thought he was done. Turns out his mind was on a totally different plane...

 

 

I know my tendencies to overanalyze are not easy to tolerate. A less tolerant man would have left. Less tolerant men HAVE left. But day after day he tells me that he accepts me for me, and even though I might drive him bonkers, I wouldn't be ME if I wasn't.

 

 

My worries and my inability to believe he wants to stay would be the thing to drive him away.

 

 

I trust him completely, I know he is faithful. But I struggle to trust in myself, to trust that I CAN and DO make him happy. I struggle to believe that he would actually want to spend his life with me. The concept that any one person would tolerate my quirks on a daily basis and not want to run away astounds me.

 

 

I'm stuck within my own mind 24/7 and it drives me mad. I wouldn't blame anyone for wanting to get away after getting extended amounts of exposure to it.

OK, now I have a very good idea of what is going on.

 

First off all, I highly doubt he will ever leave you. He knows he has a great thing going on and that you try very hard to please him.

 

The only way I can ever see him leaving you, is if he really tries to get you to do his cuckold fantasy and you refuse. And I really do hope you will refuse even if it means losing him.

 

Aside from something extreme like that, he will most likely never leave.

 

Next, you seem to have very low self-esteem. I don't meant that as an insult, just a matter of fact. You are worrying so much if you can make him happy and that he doesn't want to stay with you. A woman with a healthy amount of confidence would not be stressing over the things you are. She would know her worth. If the man wasn't OK with what she can offer, she'd drop him.

 

As I'm sure you know, I have low self-esteem and poor confidence in myself, so I'm not trying to insult you.

 

BTW, those guys that left, did they start dating somebody else right away?

Yeah. He keeps saying how he has a wonderful girl and keeps screwing it up by being an idiot and a douche. That it's just some silly fantasy that's fun to talk about but that he'd never want to do it and that I'm wife material, that he'd never make the woman he wants to marry do something like that, and that it's unfair of him to even TALK like that when it makes me uncomfortable.

OK, good. So he's not oblivious. He's also embarrassed of his actions.

 

If he never apologized, would you still be OK with it?

 

BTW, the fantasy thing is a complete 180. You know he's just trying to back pedal because it was a mind fu*k loyalty test. Don't forget the things he's said to you.

 

He also doesn't think we are moving too fast at all. His adoptive parents got married 3 weeks after meeting, so that's the norm he grew up with.

Wow yeah. That explains his super sonic speed. Thank God you're at least trying to slow him down.

There are steps that need to be taken, SLOWLY, and in the right order. But he is impatient.

Actually, him wanting to get married and possibly have kids in the very near future may cause him to get frustrated and leave.

 

Once again, I really hope you stick to your guns if such a situation arises. Honestly, when you said he that he proposed to you, I almost expected you to say yes. I expected you to give in to make him happy. But you didn't. You have my respect.

Edited April 18, 2014 by somedude81

[bene]

I have noticed that interestingly women in dysfunctional relationships can describe disrespectful and outright scary behaviour and then conclude that "otherwise he's a wonderful kind loving man".

 

It doesn't make up for the abusive behaviour that he acts like a decent person occasionally, even raging lunatics appear calm every once in a while.

 

Maybe there is some sunk cost bias that people have already invested in the relationship and feel like all this energy is going to waste (a good reason not to invest too much too soon). But what a waste is being with someone who you are not compatible with?

 

For me is alarming that you say "nobody has treated me so kindly before". He is not doing you some huge favour by being with you. Even if you haven't had luck with relationships before doesn't mean that this guy is some gold standard. Maybe you should seek therapy because you seem such a nice girl and you really could use some more self esteem.

 

I have seen abusive relationships in my close family and it usually involves some financial dependency. You are not tied to him financially, by children or some other way yet, you do have a choice. You only know each other for a few months. Getting to know people is what dating is meant for and you have got to know him and found some alarming traits.

[TAV]

Ha ha ha! Yeah I wouldn't turn to her for relationship advice.

 

It sounds like we've all you've got.

 

LOL, it's almost like you're the female version of me in a few ways

 

OK, now I have a very good idea of what is going on.

 

First off all, I highly doubt he will ever leave you. He knows he has a great thing going on and that you try very hard to please him.

 

The only way I can ever see him leaving you, is if he really tries to get you to do his cuckold fantasy and you refuse. And I really do hope you will refuse even if it means losing him.

 

Aside from something extreme like that, he will most likely never leave.

 

Next, you seem to have very low self-esteem. I don't meant that as an insult, just a matter of fact. You are worrying so much if you can make him happy and that he doesn't want to stay with you. A woman with a healthy amount of confidence would not be stressing over the things you are. She would know her worth. If the man wasn't OK with what she can offer, she'd drop him.

 

As I'm sure you know, I have low self-esteem and poor confidence in myself, so I'm not trying to insult you.

 

BTW, those guys that left, did they start dating somebody else right away?

OK, good. So he's not oblivious. He's also embarrassed of his actions.

 

If he never apologized, would you still be OK with it?

 

BTW, the fantasy thing is a complete 180. You know he's just trying to back pedal because it was a mind fu*k loyalty test. Don't forget the things he's said to you.

 

Wow yeah. That explains his super sonic speed. Thank God you're at least trying to slow him down.

Actually, him wanting to get married and possibly have kids in the very near future may cause him to get frustrated and leave.

 

Once again, I really hope you stick to your guns if such a situation arises. Honestly, when you said he that he proposed to you, I almost expected you to say yes. I expected you to give in to make him happy. But you didn't. You have my respect.

 

Somedude81, I respect and appreciate that you are trying to be a friend to Phoe and are trying to talk some sense into her. But please don't make her fear he is going to leave her because he wants marriage and kids tomorrow instead of after a while. She cannot just give into him because she is afraid to lose him over that. I have faith she won't since she wisely turned down his botched up marriage proposal. But still, don't put those thoughts in her head.

 

Yes, he may threaten to leave her when she keeps refusing to tie the knot so soon or to have his babies. He might actually follow through and leave. But he will be back very fast, I promise, because he knows he won't find a girl with your qualities, yet willing to put up with his behaviour/hangups, anytime soon.

 

You have the power, Phoe, trust me, you do. Give yourself time to figure out if he is really husband material (to paraphrase him).

[todreaminblue]

phoe you are missing out now he is gone....you are missing out on a ratbag boyfriend who truly does not have your best interest at heart....you are not hwever missing out on finding someone eventually who will love you and only you........hugs.....deb

[veggirl]

Phoe the reason I say you try to be the perfect gf is because you mention, a lot, your short-comings and how you are to blame when the reality is....no, you aren't. He is. and it's VERY concerning how adament you are to rug-sweep his behavior and pretend it didn't happen. You would rather not think about it and ignore it.....willful ignorance, Phoe. Ignoring stuff doesn't make it go away. He's such a liar, with his "test" and all that...if he was testing why did he go limp when you passed....ugh I can't even. Sorry, Phoe. Good luck.

[somedude81]

Somedude81, I respect and appreciate that you are trying to be a friend to Phoe and are trying to talk some sense into her. But please don't make her fear he is going to leave her because he wants marriage and kids tomorrow instead of after a while. She cannot just give into him because she is afraid to lose him over that. I have faith she won't since she wisely turned down his botched up marriage proposal. But still, don't put those thoughts in her head.

I'm not trying to make her fear that he's going to leave her tomorrow.

 

The whole theme of my post was that he'd most likely never leave her.

 

Maybe he'd get frustrated if he wants to speed things up even more and she says no.

 

I do agree with you that he may feel that he's not able to find a girl with her qualities who would tolerate his behavior. That's a big reason why I feel he wouldn't leave.

[serial muse]

I have no clue, and it hurts my brain to even think about it. I don't even want to know, really.

 

...but

 

 

That it's just some silly fantasy that's fun to talk about but that he'd never want to do it and that I'm wife material, that he'd never make the woman he wants to marry do something like that, and that it's unfair of him to even TALK like that when it makes me uncomfortable.

 

So...you DO know the answer to that question: It wasn't a mindf*ck. At that moment, he wanted you to cuckold him. That's why he got soft when you said no. It's the only answer that makes sense.

 

And it's not going to be the end of that. I'm sorry. The fact that he won't even apologize openly for lying to you (telling you it was a "test" was a LIE) is really troublesome.

[gaius]

I'm not trying to make her fear that he's going to leave her tomorrow.

 

The whole theme of my post was that he'd most likely never leave her.

 

Maybe he'd get frustrated if he wants to speed things up even more and she says no.

 

I do agree with you that he may feel that he's not able to find a girl with her qualities who would tolerate his behavior. That's a big reason why I feel he wouldn't leave.

He already left her. Then he realized she was cheaper than a cab ride when his truck broke down and resumed communication. You really think he put down a deposit on a ring?

[somedude81]

He already left her. Then he realized she was cheaper than a cab ride when his truck broke down and resumed communication. You really think he put down a deposit on a ring?

Yup.

 

I'm sure he knows he won't be able to find a woman as good as Phoe who would also take his crap. He ain't going anywhere.

[gaius]

Oh for crying out loud...

 

First of all, I have no idea what my personal life has to do with anything, but if you're butt-hurt because I didn't gossip with you, get over it.

 

Secondly, there doesn't need to be a penis-and-vagina situation in order for there to be some basic, minimal respect. No matter what the relationship, punishing the other person by ignoring them isn't the answer, it is a woeful way to conduct a relationship. Any relationship.

 

Once again, my advice to Phoe (for the original problem) was this: she start by apologising that she hurt his feelings, and then to tell him that he hurt her feelings as well. Could they find a better way to spend the limited time they had together? If he was unable to understand that, I TOLD her she could walk away knowing that she'd done her best, she's received one too many red flags, and she could confidently end it.

 

Your advice? To ignore him for a week as punishment. I don't care what a person has done, you don't ignore them for a week, make them feel like sh*t, and then say "Now, don't do it again". If someone pulls that move on you, you walk away. It is not ok to power play and punish another person like that.

 

Secondly, I did not "enable" Phoe. Are you serious? Her sh*t relationship was somehow my fault? The only person enabling this bad relationship is now Phoe (I'm sorry love, but I speak from experience - you forgive the first wave of bad behaviour, you put a foot down over the second). I think given her bf's total lunacy over the last week, we can all comfortably say that she should run for the hills. Oh wait, we did. And she's still looking for a way to fix things.

 

And it my fault?

 

Look, if you want to conduct your relationship as some sort of power struggle where you maintain a Mexican stand-off until the other crumbles, that's fine. Just know that in a realm of sh*t advice on this forum on any given day, that's ranking pretty close to first place.

Pick, I don't know how much your great advice of apologizing to someone who was a douche to you had to do with Phoes choice to keep going. But it certainly doesn't help anything when one person is shouting down all the good advice everyone else is giving and helping to enable someone do something self destructive. If you don't want to talk about your own issues that's fine. But they shine through here even if you don't mean for them to.

 

The two things I found so odd about that thread wasn't that you didn't want to gossip, but that you brought up in the first place, then wouldn't talk about it, and then whoever it was left you sitting there like a douche after you gave them a very nice public compliment. Didn't say a word. I used to make vague comments about someone here I was going to meet, and she *gasp* would see the post and make vague comments back. To the point one or two people figured out we were going to be meeting. The respectful thing to do. And why on earth would I have cared if she said something about it before we met? It just makes no sense unless you don't have much respect for yourself.

[gaius]

Yup.

 

I'm sure he knows he won't be able to find a woman as good as Phoe who would also take his crap. He ain't going anywhere.

Just wait until he gets a reliable truck. And meets a girl that won't actually put up with his nonsense. Hot!

[hoping2heal]

OP, it is unfortunate you have not been in nor have a confidante who recognizes a good relationship when s/he sees one.

 

Your friend likes him says little to nothing based on your friends RS style; not trying to be judge mental, just that is clearly shows this woman wouldn't know healthy if it smacked her in the face, either.

 

So then you have this situation where friend 1 is doing something harmful but friend 2 can't recognize that because she lacks the wits too and encourages friend 1.

 

I don't think your low self esteem is any secret, least of all to your boyfriend. Yet, he put you in a situation that would further be destructive to you. This means he can't be trusted with you, because you will be bent for his needs and he does not look out for yours. If you are going to make a serious comittment to a person, then you should be able to trust yourself in their hands. This man has proven with absoluteness that you cannot do that. Best you ever had? That is the low self-esteem talking. Anyone can do better than hurt and harm.

[gaius]

I actually don't think the boyfriend deserves a lot of blame in this case. This is how Phoe taught him to treat her. Should he be labeled an abuser for doing what he was taught to do? For repeating the behavior patterns Phoe has shown him she finds acceptable? No. And it doesn't inherently make him a bad guy either.

[Keenly]

I actually don't think the boyfriend deserves a lot of blame in this case. This is how Phoe taught him to treat her. Should he be labeled an abuser for doing what he was taught to do? For repeating the behavior patterns Phoe has shown him she finds acceptable? No. And it doesn't inherently make him a bad guy either.

 

 

But your honor, she was wearing a short skirt......

[gaius]

But your honor, she was wearing a short skirt......

Wearing a short skirt is teaching men you want to be raped?

[hoping2heal]

I actually don't think the boyfriend deserves a lot of blame in this case. This is how Phoe taught him to treat her. Should he be labeled an abuser for doing what he was taught to do? For repeating the behavior patterns Phoe has shown him she finds acceptable? No. And it doesn't inherently make him a bad guy either.

 

You and I disagree on that one

 

Someone with low self esteem is naturally going to lack the ability to set and follow boundaries relevant to respect.

 

There are no free passes for exploiting the weakness and vulnerability of other people. Yes, that does make you a ****ty human.

[somedude81]

I actually don't think the boyfriend deserves a lot of blame in this case. This is how Phoe taught him to treat her. Should he be labeled an abuser for doing what he was taught to do? For repeating the behavior patterns Phoe has shown him she finds acceptable? No. And it doesn't inherently make him a bad guy either.

I think her BF would act the same with any woman he's dating. Phoe isn't teaching him anything.

 

Though of course he's certainly pushing the boundaries and trying to find out where her breaking point is. Because of her low self-esteem, he still has quite a bit of room until she snaps.

[sooshi]

Phoe, like you, I ended up justified everything my ex-fiancé said or did that hurt me. I blamed myself every time, even though it really was mostly his own issues most of the time. This all came from a lack of self-esteem. *I* apologized to HIM for blocking him (and consequently hurting him like crazy) after HE pursued my best friend following the end of our engagement. *I* still felt so bad and thought it was MY fault after he deleted me on facebook even after HE wrote a love song for my BEST FRIEND and sent it to ME. I believed him in thinking that I was causing intolerable drama by blocking him (for one night) and having my best "friend" (who never one stood up for me with him) block him.

 

I had every reason to block him. I had every reason to be angry.

What he did was despicable. Inconsiderate. Disrespectful.

And yet, I blamed MYSELF through and through. I believed in his accusations that I was untrustworthy, manipulative, and inauthentic. I was made to feel like I was an awful person because he told me he had spent the entire day hating me with every fiber of his being. Thinking that I was a genuinely terrible person, I was in suicidal ideation for days. Even after telling my so-called "friend" this, she never once called my ex-fiance out on his behaviour. Never tried to show him another perspective.

 

This was all of my low self-esteem talking. With the help of the folks on this forum, I learned to see the situation clearly. I have learned to become much more assertive. I would not tolerate any of this again.

 

I hope that you will develop assertiveness and confidence within yourself. You're such a sweet and kind girl, and you deserve to not be "tested" and to have a truly committed partner who adores you and respects you completely. Please don't allow your lack of self-esteem to continue to lead the way like I did.

[gaius]

You and I disagree on that one

 

Someone with low self esteem is naturally going to lack the ability to set and follow boundaries relevant to respect.

 

There are no free passes for exploiting the weakness and vulnerability of other people. Yes, that does make you a ****ty human.

 

I think her BF would act the same with any woman he's dating. Phoe isn't teaching him anything.

 

Though of course he's certainly pushing the boundaries and trying to find out where her breaking point is. Because of her low self-esteem, he still has quite a bit of room until she snaps.

Then why wasn't he acting this way from the beginning?

 

I'm not even sure this is due to Phoe having low self esteem. I know she's mentioned her grandfather can be very aggressive and mean sometimes. Maybe it's just the behavior pattern she's used to from men, and has grown comfortable with. She's a "giver", as pick would say about herself.

[hoping2heal]

Then why wasn't he acting this way from the beginning?

 

 

Oh young grasshopper, you have much to learn.

 

You don't believe there are men (and women) who play it nice and sweet to start with? How many posts have you seen where the guy (or gal) ended up being a physical abuser, or a cheater, or an emotional abuser / master manipulator that started out with "In the beginning s/he was never like that!"

 

The good boyfriend / girlfriend is literally textbook manipulator and / or abuser behavior. All I have read about since is jabs at her already low self esteem and efforts to distort her reality and confuse her further.

[somedude81]

Then why wasn't he acting this way from the beginning?

 

I'm not even sure this is due to Phoe having low self esteem. I know she's mentioned her grandfather can be very aggressive and mean sometimes. Maybe it's just the behavior pattern she's used to from men, and has grown comfortable with. She's a "giver", as pick would say about herself.

Yes, I believe that she is used to men treating her badly so that is acceptable to her.

 

Why wasn't he acting this way from the beginning? I think he was. Phoe mentioned that they were having "blue in the face" fights from the very start. I think his behavior has gotten progressively worse as he keeps pushing the boundaries. It just took him a while to get to the sexual things and serious mind fu*ks.

[sooshi]

Phoe, if this is the story of behaviour you're used to from men, then I'm so very sorry to hear that. Please know that this is not loving behaviour. I know it may be hard to see if this is what you're used to, and that you may have learned that this is what is acceptable, good, and healthy behaviour. But it isn't.

 

I think many of us, including myself, have put up with a lot because we felt like our partners (or whoever) was a wonderful person, and that just because they did a few things that hurt us, it didn't mean they should be defined by these actions. But, this guy doesn't sound remorseful at all with how he's treating you. And if he doesn't feel that way, it's likely he will continue, because he doesn't see anything wrong with it.

 

Like you, I have very little dating experience. So, whatever I experienced with my ex-fiance was pretty much all that I knew. I didn't think it was that bad, having to deal with his cold feet, distance, emotional instability. It's partly because I loved him sooo much and wanted to be so understanding and patient, and also because I lacked the experience to know that I deserved so much better than this (and also, a big part of it was that I thought he'd come around, but he never did). I'm very much a giver as well.

 

In retrospect, I look back and I shudder to think that I allowed myself to be involved with all of that, and for as long as I did.

 

You have a lot of great insights from others here. I hope you will consider them.