Valen Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 One of my spiritual pursuit is to purify my mind with only good thoughts. But from time to time, I do have bad thoughts. I can't seem to get rid of what I consider evil inside of me, thoughts that rises from anger, greed, jealousy, or lust. I don't act out on those thoughts but I am fairly disappointed in myself whenever they crop up. When I discuss this with my brother, he would say no one is perfect, don't try to be. So should I accept that there is always going to be a little evil inside of me? Link to post Share on other sites
Grumpybutfun Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Hi Valen, I think we have to accept that our lives are always going to be a struggle to do the right things. It is much easier to be a bad boy than a good man. Anger, jealousy, envy and pride are just a small part of who we are. You at least can recognize these things for what they are and that is something very profound. Most people are so busy trying to get instant gratification that they don't even notice these things as not being good for them. St. Benedict's first rule is "quit the search for salvation, it is selfish." I think he is saying that doing good for reward defeats the purpose of doing good so while we all have these manifestations of evil inside of us, we aren't evil if we don't make that impulse our value system. We can feel selfish, jealous, angry or even murderous but we don't have to give in and let ourselves be defined by that kind of hedonism. I think in order for us to recognize the good, in order for us to be worthy of the good, we have to recognize and know what the bad feels like. There is no light without darkness, there is no yin without yang. I know that I will have evil thoughts as I am a human being, but I also know that it is my goal, my intent to not act on it or to focus on it, making it part of who I am. I am the eldest son of an alcoholic philanderer who left us when I was very young, he left my mother with herpes, debts and children who were so broken we couldn't recognize normal behavior. I was very angry for a long time and couldn't forgive him and the hate made me bitter and unable to trust or form relationships. But, I was blessed with strong, good men in my life as mentors too. My coach taught me many things about life, not just football. He taught me that I was not a slave to my anger or hate, and it was up to me to decide if I wanted to be carried along on the back of bad, or if I wanted to work to recognize and exhibit good. It wasn't always easy for me, but my quality of life, my beautiful family and especially my lovely bride are the payoff to being a good man even when I was predetermined to be a broken and bad one. Best, Grumps 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Valen Posted April 12, 2014 Author Share Posted April 12, 2014 Hi Valen, I think we have to accept that our lives are always going to be a struggle to do the right things. It is much easier to be a bad boy than a good man. Anger, jealousy, envy and pride are just a small part of who we are. You at least can recognize these things for what they are and that is something very profound. Most people are so busy trying to get instant gratification that they don't even notice these things as not being good for them. St. Benedict's first rule is "quit the search for salvation, it is selfish." I think he is saying that doing good for reward defeats the purpose of doing good so while we all have these manifestations of evil inside of us, we aren't evil if we don't make that impulse our value system. We can feel selfish, jealous, angry or even murderous but we don't have to give in and let ourselves be defined by that kind of hedonism. I think in order for us to recognize the good, in order for us to be worthy of the good, we have to recognize and know what the bad feels like. There is no light without darkness, there is no yin without yang. I know that I will have evil thoughts as I am a human being, but I also know that it is my goal, my intent to not act on it or to focus on it, making it part of who I am. I am the eldest son of an alcoholic philanderer who left us when I was very young, he left my mother with herpes, debts and children who were so broken we couldn't recognize normal behavior. I was very angry for a long time and couldn't forgive him and the hate made me bitter and unable to trust or form relationships. But, I was blessed with strong, good men in my life as mentors too. My coach taught me many things about life, not just football. He taught me that I was not a slave to my anger or hate, and it was up to me to decide if I wanted to be carried along on the back of bad, or if I wanted to work to recognize and exhibit good. It wasn't always easy for me, but my quality of life, my beautiful family and especially my lovely bride are the payoff to being a good man even when I was predetermined to be a broken and bad one. Best, Grumps Thanks Grump. What you said in bold really answer my question. In a way, that struggle with evil inside of me is a test to make me a stronger and more enlighten individual. Without it, I wouldn't have been able to understand why I am the way I am or why people do the things they do. Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 There will always be temptations to do evil. There will be thoughts that crop up that, hopefully, your moral fiber and self control will turn away, rather than allowing yourself to give in to it. Your morals and self control serve to protect you from engaging in behavior that is harmful to you or to others. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
CarrieT Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I'm of the mind that everything in life must be balanced. One cannot acknowledge SWEET without tasting SOUR or SALT. One cannot know LOVE without first having experienced HATE. There can be no LIGHT without DARK. And, ultimately, there can be no absolutely GOOD without an inkling of BAD. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 One doesn't have to learn from experience what is harmful to you or harmful to others. Some things are common sense. Some are learned from lessons taught in childhood (don't run into the street where you could get hit by a car). Hopefully, a child would not have to learn that lesson the hard way. We teach our children to stay away from drugs. Hopefully, they believe us when we teach them how harmful drugs would be, and don't feel they have to find out for themselves. We learn through being taught by others who have knowledge about the topic, either through learning themselves or from their own personal experiences. On this board, much is said about the harmful and destructive nature affairs have on people. Hopefully, it would deter a person from engaging in one by reading about the negative experiences of others, and from common sense alone. A person doesn't have to engage in something to know that it is harmful. Hopefully, they can learn through the teachings and testimonies of others, so that they can be spared from learning the hard way. Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 One of my spiritual pursuit is to purify my mind with only good thoughts. How do you do this now? What are your spiritual beliefs about God, and who you are in relation to God? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Valen Posted April 12, 2014 Author Share Posted April 12, 2014 How do you do this now? What are your spiritual beliefs about God, and who you are in relation to God? You do it through watching your mind and developing your values and virtues. God isn't in the equation. Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 You do it through watching your mind and developing your values and virtues. God isn't in the equation. So, doing it all on your own (eliminating evil)? IDK, evil seems to be a pretty basic part of our human nature. Stopping all evil thoughts by our own will seems kind of like telling your heart to stop pumping. In other words, pretty difficult. Definitely a virtuous ambition...just a very exhausting one, lol . 1 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) Without God, evil does not exist. It gets reduced and redefined to merely "lack of education" or whatever society deems unacceptable at any given time. Adultery is viewed okay at one time but not another. Pedophilia has even been practiced and accepted by many cultures at many times. Pie2 asked you to define your reference points and who you believe God to be because you cannot answer these questions until you've done that. Edited April 12, 2014 by M30USA 1 Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Without God, evil does not exist. It gets reduced and redefined to merely "lack of education" or whatever society seems unacceptable at any given time. Adultery is viewed okay at one time but not another. Pedophilia has even been practiced and accepted by many cultures at many times. Pie2 asked you to define your reference points and who you believe God to be because you cannot answer these questions until you've done that. Great point...the definition of "evil" can be VERY fluid. God, as a reference point for purity and perfect goodness, brings definition to what is NOT of God. So, if God is pure and good, and that which is not of God isn't pure and good, it would seem that anything not of God is not good. Does that mean it's evil? If so, then there's a lot of stuff that's probably evil (in relation to God's purity)!! And, if there's a lot that is probably considered to be "evil" (aka not pure and good), then we would have a ton of work to do to try and eliminate all of that evilness on our own. OP - if you don't believe in God, are you coming at this from a purely evolutionary perspective? In other words, do you believe we're a product of evolution, the Big Bang and all that? Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Scorpio Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I don't act out on those thoughts but I am fairly disappointed in myself whenever they crop up. When I discuss this with my brother, he would say no one is perfect, don't try to be. So should I accept that there is always going to be a little evil inside of me? Skillful Versus Unskillful Thinking : Secular Buddhist Association Link to post Share on other sites
Author Valen Posted April 12, 2014 Author Share Posted April 12, 2014 I know it can be difficult for God-believers to grasp the concept of evil without reference to God. I was once a Christian so I understand. But there are other religions that define evil without reference to God. For example, Buddhism. Evil is more or less define as an action or thought that bears bad fruits or karma. I'm no Buddhist either. Although I once call myself that. You see, I venture through other religions in search of truth. What I find to be true has to validated by my reason and logic. So that's why I am a religious person without a religion. I take what is good and apply it to my life. Through observation and experience, as I come to more understanding I can see how ideas and thoughts come to be. Why people believe in the things they do. That kind of clarity is what strengthen my core beliefs and values. Even though I may disagree with someone's beliefs, I don't feel the need to convince them otherwise. As they say, when the student is ready the teacher appears. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Valen Posted April 12, 2014 Author Share Posted April 12, 2014 Skillful Versus Unskillful Thinking : Secular Buddhist Association Yes, most of my core beliefs are rooted from Buddhist philosophy. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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