feeling hurt... No ring in the near future

[And_rea]

My boyfriend and I have been going out nearly two years. We are both 27, finished university, and have stable careers. He is my other half. I knew right away that this relationship was different. We get along great , have fun, and he has every quality and more that I wanted in a life partner.

We moved in together 5 months ago and it has been great. We also got a puppy. We talk about the future and growing old. He wants to buy a house (with me) in the next 1.5 years.

So my friends/family have been asking about marriage. I knew it was something he wanted, but we had never had a serious conversation (woops). We are going on a big trip in a few months and for whatever reason, I (with the help of friends/family) got it in my head that a proposal would happen then.

 

A few weeks ago he made a MAJOR purchase, and I knew that because of that, no ring was on the way. He is very financially responsible and wouldn't make two large purchases.

 

So I figured it was about time (read: long overdue) for a serious talk about the "m" word. I let him know it is important to me,a commitment I'd like before the purchase of a house, and something I want sooner rather than later (biological clock is ticking... I want some fun years as a married couple before babies!). Also... I feel I just need that commitment.

He said... There is no rush (ok fair enough), and some couples wait ten years before getting engaged (wait... What?!). He didn't want to wait that long, but he wanted to be ready. When I asked more about this he said his sister dated her husband 6 years (she met him at 19..) and I had to remember that he has been with me much longer than any other girl. This comment concerned me... Am I a long term practice run? How is this relevant? I told him I felt like if he is unsure at this point , maybe there's a problem. He said he's not unsure.

So..I'm feeling a little hurt and confused. I love him more than anything but marriage is a non-negotiable with me. I want to be with him but I don't want to wait forever if he isn't going to give me that commitment b

Edited April 13, 2014 by And_rea

[Keenly]

You are worked about what you want on the time frame that you want it.

 

What about what he wants, or the time frame he wants? Do you feel your desires of getting married override his desires of going slowly towards that goal?

 

 

Too many times I've seen women ruin relationships because they turn on the marriage pressure on the man. Be careful how you approach this. If you come on too strong is going topush him away.

[Smilecharmer]

Always discuss expectations with any romantic partner. Also, why should he propose to you? He is already getting everything he wants which is sex and living together? Men aren't as marriage minded so I have seen men who keep saying they will propose once they are ready and twenty years later the woman is still wondering why he didn't propose. I would like to say I have seen this rarely, but it is almost a usual occurrence. He didn't propose because he didn't want to. After two years he should know if you are the one, if he doesn't he is either emotionally slow or has massive commitment issues. Two years Is more than enough time to know if you want someone to be in your life forever. Slow is a year, two years is lack of faith in you or your relationship. Young men can say that you should respect what he wants, but those of us who have seen the world and how it works, we know this is a tactic used for men to make sure you are the one he wants indefinitely. Is there no one better? He isn't sure. He already has what he wants and really doesn't find marriage important. He is getting sex and a live in companion.

Women, do not move in with a guy before marriage unless you already have a ring and a date. Otherwise, you have to accept that you led him to believe that marriage isn't something you value because you are moving forward in the relationship without it and doing all the things that marriage used to define. Don't blame him for your lack of clear expectations.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Smilecharmer

[Keenly]

Always discuss expectations with any romantic partner. Also, why should he propose to you? He is already getting everything he wants which is sex and living together? Men aren't as marriage minded so I have seen men who keep saying they will propose once they are ready and twenty years later the woman is still wondering why he didn't propose. I would like to say I have seen this rarely, but it is almost a usual occurrence. He didn't propose because he didn't want to. After two years he should know if you are the one, if he doesn't he is either emotionally slow or has massive commitment issues. Two years Is more than enough time to know if you want someone to be in your life forever. Slow is a year, two years is lack of faith in you or your relationship. Young men can say that you should respect what he wants, but those of us who have seen the world and how it works, we know this is a tactic used for men to make sure you are the one he wants indefinitely. Is there no one better? He isn't sure. He already has what he wants and really doesn't find marriage important. He is getting sex and a live in companion.

Women, do not move in with a guy before marriage unless you already have a ring and a date. Otherwise, you have to accept that you led him to believe that marriage isn't something you value because you are moving forward in the relationship without it and doing all the things that marriage used to define. Don't blame him for your lack of clear expectations.

 

I disagree with this post in its entirety. Two years may be enough time for YOU, but to then supply it to every man on the planet? No....

[Smilecharmer]

If you don't know after a year, you don't want it...simple. Unless you are emotionally stunted or you are unsure of marriage in general, people know if they want a lifetime commitment or not. Waiting for ten years to make a commitment usually means he couldn't find someone better or he has commitment issues. Otherwise, if you know that this is the right one and you are interested in marriage as an institution, you don't need forever to propose that commitment. If you don't propose, you aren't sure, and if you aren't sure then there are reasons why you are unsure.

I'm not even considering those who prefer LTRs because they are honest that they don't want marriage as part of their lives and that is fine. I know many LTRs that are wonderful and both people are on the same page. However, the OP clearly wants marriage and two years isn't an unreasonable time limit on knowing if that is in her future. I know that living without marriage wouldn't have appealed to me morally or spiritually so I understand what she means. If marriage isn't something you care about very much, you may agree that it isn't something that needs to be established, but the OP clearly cares very much and this is her post.

[Keenly]

If you don't know after a year, you don't want it...simple. Unless you are emotionally stunted or you are unsure of marriage in general, people know if they want a lifetime commitment or not. Waiting for ten years to make a commitment usually means he couldn't find someone better or he has commitment issues. Otherwise, if you know that this is the right one and you are interested in marriage as an institution, you don't need forever to propose that commitment. If you don't propose, you aren't sure, and if you aren't sure then there are reasons why you are unsure.

I'm not even considering those who prefer LTRs because they are honest that they don't want marriage as part of their lives and that is fine. I know many LTRs that are wonderful and both people are on the same page. However, the OP clearly wants marriage and two years isn't an unreasonable time limit on knowing if that is in her future. I know that living without marriage wouldn't have appealed to me morally or spiritually so I understand what she means. If marriage isn't something you care about very much, you may agree that it isn't something that needs to be established, but the OP clearly cares very much and this is her post.

 

So now we have arbitrarily decided that everyone should know within a year if they want to get married?

 

People are different. Just because they need more time to make a major life decision does not some how make them emotionally stunted or damaged. Very judging and presumptuous road to go down, to insist that all people just make the same decisions on the same time frame as you.

 

Two years isn't even that much time. Certainly wouldn't be enough for me to make a major.life decision like that.

[Smilecharmer]

Keenly, I don't know you ,but are you married? Ever been in a healthy relationship? Are you still in your twenties? Are you coming from a place of health or reacting based on bad relationships with controlling, manipulative gfs?

 

I think two years is plenty of time in a healthy grown up relationship where both are already moving in together and planning a future unless he doesn't want marriage and is keeping his options open. However, if you are in your early twenties or haven't had much life experience, are still figuring out who you are and haven't had anything but drama and bad experiences in your past relationships, I can certainly understand why you think like you do.

 

I think this woman is in a different place in her life so I am giving her advice based on how I interpreted her situation from someone who has a healthy, happy marriage and has seen many ten or twenty year relationships where men say they just aren't ready...and they never will be because marriage isn't important to them. These women are strung along for years on promises because the man knows this is easier than telling them the truth, which is that they aren't interested in a marriage as an institution or they just aren't sure of her yet because they are looking for someone better.

 

Sorry, OP, for the TJ. I don't find your concerns unreasonable and I wouldn't let the sun go down on one more day without knowing if you can live with uncertainty and live a life with someone who isn't sure of you as a life's partner. Two years is plenty of time to know if you want someone in your life especially if you are already living together and planning kids and home purchases.

[FallingLeaves]

I think your concerns are extremely valid.

 

I can also hear Keenly's argument as well.

 

But I think I can offer some help. You need to set a personal limit in your head on how long you will wait, and what that means to you. But under no means should you communicate this to your partner. This is NOT an ultimatum.

 

You already know that you won't buy a house with someone whom you aren't married to, and that is a very good rule. My advice would be to talk more to your partner about your needs and why you want marriage. and also ask him questions to learn more about his reservations and fears about marriage.

 

Give it time, but once you have hit your personal wait limit, it's time to leave to find someone with which you are better suited.

 

If your partner does not want marriage, that is completely fine. But you do want it, so if a middle ground can't be reached, you must leave for your own mental health.

[Smilecharmer]

Ultimatums aren't fair, I agree. You have to figure out what you can accept and make hard choices based on that. You both need to be on the same page for a relationship to work.

[Keenly]

You can call it something else, but its still an ultimatum. Its still pressuring him for marriage when he isn't ready.

[Smilecharmer]

You can call it something else, but its still an ultimatum. Its still pressuring him for marriage when he isn't ready.

 

 

It isn't pressuring if she decides she doesn't want a relationship without that commitment so she moves on, or are you suggesting she just puts up with feeling hurt (see post title) and not getting what she values so she can hang onto him on his terms? Seems like he would get his needs met but she wouldn't. How long? Until he is sure? What if he is never sure? What if she begins to resent him for his indecisiveness which doesn't connotate seeing a future with her? They need to be on the same page for a healthy relationship. He isn't sure, so he doesn't have clear vision of them together in the future. He isn't ready, so he needs more time and that means they don't need to be playing house by moving in together, planning children or planning buying a house together until he is sure. If he is doing all of these things, he is ready for a LTR, just not marriage and that is okay as long as that is what she wants too. In her post, He says he is not unsure so that means he just wants to wait for what?

Edited April 13, 2014 by Smilecharmer

[Forever Learning]

You already know that you won't buy a house with someone whom you aren't married to, and that is a very good rule. My advice would be to talk more to your partner about your needs and why you want marriage. and also ask him questions to learn more about his reservations and fears about marriage.

 

.

 

If your partner does not want marriage, that is completely fine. But you do want it, so if a middle ground can't be reached, you must leave for your own mental health.

 

I really agree with SmileCharmer and Falling Leaves here in this situation.

 

You must tell your boyfriend in no uncertain terms (no beating around the bush) about how you are feeling, and that marriage is fundamental to who you are and what you want in life. FUNDAMENTAL!

 

And, that these very valid expectations of yours have distinct time tables as well.

 

There is nothing wrong (and everything RIGHT) with having expectations, timetables, boundaries, and clear, honest, open communication.

 

Tell him that this relationship will soon be over, if engagement and marriage isn't in the cards in the near future, as in engagement in the couple months and marriage six months thereafter.

 

By the way, neither the engagement nor marriage need be extremely expensive affairs. You can upgrade the ring several years down the road if you want.

 

And, an expensive wedding doesn't make the wedding vows any more or less sincere.

 

It's the THOUGHT and AUTHENTIC COMMITMENT and expressions of love and partnership, that count here.

 

You have every right to NOT be sitting in 'limbo' with your fingers crossed at age 27.

 

If you don't communicate clearly to him that this is how you are feeling, you will be feeling exactly this way, this time next year. And yes, that is HARD on your mental health and self esteem. Screw that noise!

 

If he isn't on the same page about marriage and children, then it's time to really find out.

 

And if he wants to meander along in life for the next 5 -10 years or so without a clear plan, he can do so with someone else who is willing to put up with that. But not you.

 

All the best you dear! I would say good luck, but you don't need luck. You are the master of your destiny. Make it so!

[And_rea]

Thanks for the replies. I don't want to rush him... I just THOUGHT this was something that was going to happen soon. I mean, to me... Puppy, living together, talking about buying a house... I would have thought marriage would be in there somewhere. I don't want a fancy ring (in fact of be upset because that's money that could be spent on a downpayment!) and I'd be happy to elope... It is the commitment. I guess we have some serious talking to do and I have thinking to do... I need to figure out my priorities and if I'm willing to rearrange them

[Poppyolive]

My advice.. Yes I feel he shouldn't be pressured, its a big commitment and he may not be ready.

 

U agree with your given age that after 2 years together, living together, puppy and buying a house are all signs he is commitmed but you would like a proposal for commitment.

 

I was in your situation, living together, future plans and wanted to know if marriage was on the cards. He said, without a doubt, he wanted to save, and it was more a matter of when. Before I knew it we were together happy for coming up to five years..and I had a talk with him regarding tucking clock wanting kids etc. And we started coming up with plans and I thought proposal was imminent.

 

Then out of the blue he dumped me, talking about wedding & kids 10 hours before he dropped the bomb. I was shocked....without getting further into that.....my advice to you is take what matters into your own hands, don't let all the decision be up to him, he's telling you he doesn't want to be fully committed to you and using the example is an excuse, he's buying time to figure out what he wants, you need to too. It means he's not sure, but of course he's not going to risk loosing you and come out with I'm not sure you're my one. I learned a huge lesson and feel like he wasted my time...

 

Take control... Somehow do not put the ball in his court!

[Poppyolive]

My advice.. Yes I feel he shouldn't be pressured, its a big commitment and he may not be ready.

 

I agree with your given age that after 2 years together, living together, puppy and buying a house are all signs he is commitmed but you would like a proposal for commitment.

 

I was in your situation, living together, future plans and wanted to know if marriage was on the cards. He said, without a doubt, he wanted to save, and it was more a matter of when. Before I knew it we were together happy for coming up to five years..and I had a talk with him regarding tucking clock wanting kids etc. And we started coming up with plans and I thought proposal was imminent.

 

Then out of the blue he dumped me, talking about wedding & kids 10 hours before he dropped the bomb. I was shocked....without getting further into that.....my advice to you is take what matters into your own hands, don't let all the decision be up to him, he's telling you he doesn't want to be fully committed to you and using the example is an excuse, he's buying time to figure out what he wants, you need to too. It means he's not sure, but of course he's not going to risk loosing you and come out with I'm not sure you're my one. I learned a huge lesson and feel like he wasted my time...

 

Take control... Somehow do not put the ball in his court!

[And_rea]

I had two long talks today... One with my mum, who always listens to my problems, and one with my bf.

my mum and I came to the conclusion that while marriage is ultimately the goal, what's most important to me right now is some sort of commitment... So I don't just feel like I'm in limbo until he makes up his mind.

Went home and talked to the bf. Told him in no uncertain terms that I will NOT buy a house with him before at LEAST a ring. Told him I didn't understand how he could think about making the biggest, most influential purchase of his life with someone he wasn't ready to spend the rest of his life with- unless we were just business partners. He said yes, he wants to marrye "eventually" but he feels we need more time living together to prove we are in it for the long haul. I told him I already know how I feel, and he said he thinks he does, but he is just not ready. I told him that while I don't want him to feel pressured and he needs to be 100% sure, I am not going to wait around forever- he really should know at some point in the near future. I told him that while I respect he isn't ready, we need to find the middle ground and he needs to understand that I am ready NOW. I've come up with a timeline in my head, and before then I feel that some form of commitment needs to be made or else I need to seriously consider my future. I feel a little hurt that he doesn't know... and while he insists that I am rushing it and we aren't "at the right place" I told him that 2 years is not rushing it and that we are more than comfortable in our life. He said I sprung this on him out of the blue... And I said I've been hinting at it for 6 months, and quite frankly, at two years into our relationship, if marriage hasn't crossed your mind... I'm worried.

We will see what happens I guess. I don't want to lose him, but I don't want to wait forever on someone that isn't going to commit.

[Forever Learning]

I think you did VERY VERY WELL Andrea in being true to yourself, and expressing your feelings! You wouldn't have been happy if you hadn't.

 

And, I am also so grateful you have your Mom to talk to as well. Nice that you can talk to her.

 

Let's see what he does. He'll need some time to mull it over won't he? I think so.

 

How much time? That's hard to say, but what really matters is how much time you are willing to give him to think about things....... give him some time of course. I'm glad you have a timeline in your head.

 

Isn't it amazing how people used to get married right out of high school? My parents were married at age 21, and in the late 1950's/ early 1960's, that was the norm (if not a bit late - many were married at age 18). The are now 73 and still married.

 

Heck, my former father in law served two tours of duty in the Vietnam War, beginning when he was 16 years old. He had lied to the recruiting officer and said he was 17, who then lied on his sign up papers and said he was actually 18. He got back after the war and married in his early 20's as well.

 

I know times have changed (somewhat), but people are CAPABLE of getting married and starting families in their 20's, even very early 20's, and in many countries, in their late teens (not saying I agree with that, just saying they do).

 

I have many friends who have married in their 20's and are still together. I'm just saying, not everyone must wait until their 30's to be married.

 

When you are ready, you're ready! Fingers crossed your boyfriend will gain some clarity either way in the very near future, for his sake and yours. All the best to you both!

Edited April 14, 2014 by Forever Learning

[SolG]

Hi Andrea :-)

 

Forever Learning brings up a really good point in her post; that is the shifting age of first marriage in the west. In the US, the average age of marriage for men and women is 29 and 27 respectively, and for comparison in AUS it's 32 and 29. And these are just the overall averages; the average age is actually higher the more educated the party is.

 

Reasons sited for this are variously things like women no longer needing the security of marriage that was once essential, availability of birth control, people being more focussed on career and financial stability/success prior to turning to other facets of their lives, etc...

 

So on this basis, as college grads, you and your BF are ahead of the curve if you're looking to get married in the next year or so. As Forever Learning states, this in and of itself is no impediment to a long and successful marriage. But do you think it might be part of his stated feelings of 'unreadiness'?

 

Are his friends and professional peers married? Does he still have things he wants to achieve that he thinks he might not be able to once married? Now that you've got the fundamental issue of your desire to get married on the table, if you think it's relevant to your circumstances, you might want to discuss these contextual issues with him and see if you can help allay his concerns in this area if he has any.

 

Just a thought... Good Luck!!

Edited April 14, 2014 by SolG

[Arieswoman]

Women, do not move in with a guy before marriage unless you already have a ring and a date. Otherwise, you have to accept that you led him to believe that marriage isn't something you value because you are moving forward in the relationship without it and doing all the things that marriage used to define. Don't blame him for your lack of clear expectations.

 

^^^^^^^

 

Absolutely !

[man_in_the_box]

Why don't you just propose yourself? I have a feeling these issues would be much more uncommon if we would get rid of this ridiculous gender role where only a man should propose.

[Els]

Why don't you just propose yourself? I have a feeling these issues would be much more uncommon if we would get rid of this ridiculous gender role where only a man should propose.

 

Her bf told her in no uncertain terms that he wasn't ready, so I sincerely doubt that this will work.

 

OP, this is one of those matters where nobody can tell you what you should do. You have to decide on your own timeline and its importance for yourself. If you feel you want to wait, then do so; if you feel you want to set a cut-off date, then do so. It all depends on how you weigh various aspects of relationships.

 

Just make sure that it is what YOU want, not anyone else. I say this because you mentioned your mom more than a few times in this thread. Is it societal/familial pressure that is making you want marriage or truly your own desires? Be clear on this.

[man_in_the_box]

Her bf told her in no uncertain terms that he wasn't ready, so I sincerely doubt that this will work.

 

Well yeah that would suck. But this happens in reverse with the consolidation that these rejected men know exactly where they stand. Wouldn't having an answer be better than endlessly waiting for something? Seems a lot quicker than some silent ultimatum with the same outcome.

[Els]

 

Reasons sited for this are variously things like women no longer needing the security of marriage that was once essential, availability of birth control, people being more focussed on career and financial stability/success prior to turning to other facets of their lives, etc...

 

Yep. In the case of AUS, the relatively new legal recognition of de facto relationships is probably a contributing factor, too.

 

Well yeah that would suck. But this happens in reverse with the consolidation that these rejected men know exactly where they stand. Wouldn't having an answer be better than endlessly waiting for something? Seems a lot quicker than some silent ultimatum with the same outcome.

 

This probably wouldn't work terribly well because IMO women are typically ready for marriage before men, just as how men are typically ready for sex before women (generalizing hugely here, of course, there are exceptions). A century ago this wouldn't have been an issue, as the two would have been tied together, but currently this seems to be the case for many. That's why men usually propose and women usually are the ones to choose when the first time they have sex is.

[atlg8r]

If you don't know after a year, you don't want it...simple. Unless you are emotionally stunted or you are unsure of marriage in general, people know if they want a lifetime commitment or not. Waiting for ten years to make a commitment usually means he couldn't find someone better or he has commitment issues. Otherwise, if you know that this is the right one and you are interested in marriage as an institution, you don't need forever to propose that commitment. If you don't propose, you aren't sure, and if you aren't sure then there are reasons why you are unsure.

I'm not even considering those who prefer LTRs because they are honest that they don't want marriage as part of their lives and that is fine. I know many LTRs that are wonderful and both people are on the same page. However, the OP clearly wants marriage and two years isn't an unreasonable time limit on knowing if that is in her future. I know that living without marriage wouldn't have appealed to me morally or spiritually so I understand what she means. If marriage isn't something you care about very much, you may agree that it isn't something that needs to be established, but the OP clearly cares very much and this is her post.

 

I disagree. I don't think you can supply some one-size-fits-all time table to anyone, man OR woman. (I am female.)

 

To the OP, I am curious if you asked him what his expectations were. You told him yours, but what are his? Sounds like, to me, further communication is needed before making a decision or assumption.

[atlg8r]

Why don't you just propose yourself? I have a feeling these issues would be much more uncommon if we would get rid of this ridiculous gender role where only a man should propose.

 

The erosion of these traditional gender roles is where the problem actually begins, IMO. Further, women are more inclined to pursue the security of marriage. Men are not. A man proposing indicates (or should anyway) that he's done with single life and confident he's found his lifelong partner.