Anyone still planning to be with AP after DD?

[Poppy's sister]

Hi pefect life and everyone else,

 

yes, very very similar situation here too.

And it is very difficult

I am sick of hearing people say that staying for the kids is every man's excuse and if he loved you he would leave whatever....in my case we both agreed together to stay in our marriages for our children....doesnt anyone else understand that parental love trumps every other type of love ...even affairy tale fog love !

15 months into a long term plan his marriage is imploding and he has started talking about how hard he is finding it, how he thinks about how to separate, logistics and finances...

People on here seem to be of one opinion....just divorce....boy , i want to know what they know ...because from where me and my AP sit it looks very very scarey.....and not something either of us want to go through without serious consideration.

 

So perfect world....yes there are people out there who understand the long term plan thing, i have had NO future faking, NO cake eating but solid, sensible grown up conversations with my AP about what we can have, what we might have and what all the consequences might be.

 

We are currently trying to support each other through some tough times , working out what will work for us, and we are both struggling with it all.

I havent seen him for 6 weeks due to work etc, and out meetings are currently restricted to lunch together once a week . I feel next week will be another big talk....

 

I do think the n/c thing is a bit odd...talking together to work it out would surely be better...but what works for me might not for you.

 

Hang in there....its is scarey and you might not get happy ever after but at least you tried

[LBlanc]

Hi pefect life and everyone else,

 

yes, very very similar situation here too.

And it is very difficult

I am sick of hearing people say that staying for the kids is every man's excuse and if he loved you he would leave whatever....in my case we both agreed together to stay in our marriages for our children....doesnt anyone else understand that parental love trumps every other type of love ...even affairy tale fog love !

15 months into a long term plan his marriage is imploding and he has started talking about how hard he is finding it, how he thinks about how to separate, logistics and finances...

People on here seem to be of one opinion....just divorce....boy , i want to know what they know ...because from where me and my AP sit it looks very very scarey.....and not something either of us want to go through without serious consideration.

 

So perfect world....yes there are people out there who understand the long term plan thing, i have had NO future faking, NO cake eating but solid, sensible grown up conversations with my AP about what we can have, what we might have and what all the consequences might be.

 

...

 

The situation may be a bit different with the OP. Her children are all grown up and her youngest is about to leave for college (if I read her other post correctly). The fall out from the divorce/separation may not be as damaging if her children were still living at home. It seems now would be a very good time to get a divorce. Like what the other posters have said, stringing her H along, while she waits for a signal from AP, is just plain cold.

Edited April 18, 2014 by LBlanc
clarity

[veryhappy]

He is in counseling, trying everything she wants.

 

Objects in motion stay in motion. That's how he decided to start rolling.

 

You can only be a smart cookie and understand that a man who is so desperately appeasing the wife with everything is nowhere near being with you. I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you can significantly reduce your angst if you see this for what it is and consider it over and done.

 

That everything must include communication, long talks, dates and sex. Explain please why you're hanging around waiting while he's doing that on purpose with someone else? How is that supposed to mean that he wants you?

[Poppy's sister]

ahhh....thanks for that, yes agree older children who have left home do indeed put a different spin on things.

 

I can relate to the thoughts that if you dont love your spouse do not string them along...i guess i am guilty of that to a degree, as is my AP as we are both still there in our marriages and still seeing each other.

 

The OP, and her AP do seem to be both waiting for the other one to make first move so to speak....i can sympathise....i am so scared of taking that step, that i sometimes think i would rather just carry on with affair however hard that is ( and right now it is very limited and restricted) ...and not have a life together , even though i know my AP woudl make me happy and we would be good together in real life.

 

I wonder sometimes how articulate, intelligent , confident people get themselves into such a tangled mess and i count myself front of that queue !

[gettingstronger]

People divorce all the time-its not ideal for the kids but if the family puts effort in to it-it can be minimized-

I don't understand why some think their situation is so unique that they can not divorce if they really want to be with another-

It is possible to love your children and still divorce-

Its an excuse plain and simple-

The people on here that realize this and move on (be they the WS, the BS or the AP) are much better off in the long run-

[Speakingofwhich]

Hi pefect life and everyone else,

 

yes, very very similar situation here too.

And it is very difficult

I am sick of hearing people say that staying for the kids is every man's excuse and if he loved you he would leave whatever....in my case we both agreed together to stay in our marriages for our children....doesnt anyone else understand that parental love trumps every other type of love ...even affairy tale fog love !

15 months into a long term plan his marriage is imploding and he has started talking about how hard he is finding it, how he thinks about how to separate, logistics and finances...

People on here seem to be of one opinion....just divorce....boy , i want to know what they know ...because from where me and my AP sit it looks very very scarey.....and not something either of us want to go through without serious consideration.

 

Agree with your thoughts on D. If one hasn't been through it, it seems to be a predictable neat little package a person can pull out and implement if/when one is no longer happy with their M.

 

Divorce is anything but neat and/or predictable! It can be and often is horrific and unpredictable, family skewing, mind altering, financially crippling, emotionally draining, and extremely painful! It's not something you do without a lot of planning, forethought and gut wrenching courage.

 

Divorce is an awful thing for adults to go through but for the children it's 1000X worse, even in the best case scenarios. Many children of D seem to be handling it fine, only to find out in adulthood they're just beginning to process the fallout from their parents' divorce.

 

So, when posters scorn the phrase, "staying for the children" as not being a credible reason to stay in a M, imho, they are speaking out of naivete and ignorance.

 

Also, speaking from the experience of having been through divorce I can tell you that going through one is totally different than it appears to be by observing someone else go through one. Until you've been through a divorce, you are clueless as to what the actual experience is like.

 

However, if there is child abuse going on, that's a different story. A couple needs to do whatever it takes to protect children and if they're being abused then measures need to be taken immediately to keep them safe.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Speakingofwhich

[Poppy's sister]

the two posts above highlight exactly that.

 

Yes people do divorce and love their kids

 

But I do not want to put my children through that right now, and neither does my AP.

 

Instead of scorning the idea that people stay for the children, perhaps we should afford them some respect...that they are trying to do the right thing by their children.

 

In my situation , i did not see my AP as making excuses , it was a joint decision we made about all our children.

 

However, for him it is proving harder than we imagined.

[Mickey1982]

Hi pefect life and everyone else,

 

yes, very very similar situation here too.

And it is very difficult

I am sick of hearing people say that staying for the kids is every man's excuse and if he loved you he would leave whatever....in my case we both agreed together to stay in our marriages for our children....doesnt anyone else understand that parental love trumps every other type of love ...even affairy tale fog love !

15 months into a long term plan his marriage is imploding and he has started talking about how hard he is finding it, how he thinks about how to separate, logistics and finances...

People on here seem to be of one opinion....just divorce....boy , i want to know what they know ...because from where me and my AP sit it looks very very scarey.....and not something either of us want to go through without serious consideration.

 

So perfect world....yes there are people out there who understand the long term plan thing, i have had NO future faking, NO cake eating but solid, sensible grown up conversations with my AP about what we can have, what we might have and what all the consequences might be.

 

We are currently trying to support each other through some tough times , working out what will work for us, and we are both struggling with it all.

I havent seen him for 6 weeks due to work etc, and out meetings are currently restricted to lunch together once a week . I feel next week will be another big talk....

 

I do think the n/c thing is a bit odd...talking together to work it out would surely be better...but what works for me might not for you.

 

Hang in there....its is scarey and you might not get happy ever after but at least you tried

 

 

Poppy, what will you do if a d-day happens and either of your families (children) find out?

[MissBee]

It's been a month since Dday. Our plan (we are both married), was to leave spouses this spring after lengthy discussions and planning. Now since both spouses know, we have had NC for 3 weeks. 1 week after DDay was one quick phone conversation. I had to know he was ok. He told me he is going thru the motions, he KNOWS we have to be together. He is in counseling, trying everything she wants. Anyone out there in a similar situation? We said time apart would make it even clearer. The first week was absolute torture, walking around like a zombie. I am trying to be productive, constructive in my family, spending time with H. But if I feel the same in another month, I may feel the right thing to do is tell H the truth about my feelings (or lack of) toward him. I have read sooo many posts about OW, OM. MM never leaves family, wants cake and eat it too, etc. From what my gut is telling me, my MM is one of the exceptions.

 

Hi Perfect,

 

Your situation is a bit different than many of the OW, in that you're also married. With the single OW she has to worry about if the MM will leave...but you haven't really said whether or not you're still leaving? Are you? Sorry if you covered this already. I only read your initial post.

 

When both people are married BOTH have to make decisions to leave, not one. And further still, both need to make sure they are leaving their marriages because they are in fact done with them and would leave even if no one was waiting in the wings. Leaving "for" each other is a bad plan.

 

I was a single OW, so it wasn't the same situation, but I'm confused about why NC and why go to counseling and do everything your spouse wants if your goal is to leave? Was dday a surprise or was dday him confessing? To me, it seems as though if you planned to leave and had discussed this in advance and wanted to do it, you'd either tell your spouse upfront and have the divorce conversation OR even if there is a dday before you're ready, after that chaos, you'll try to go back to the original plan of leaving. What's happening with you two doesn't seem like two people who are about to divorce and be together after the initial chaos dies down. It seems like two married people who got caught in an affair and are trying to get things back to the status quo versus leave. How do you feel about it and esp as a married woman, what are your plans in terms of your own marriage, it's not like MM is the only married one here.

Edited April 18, 2014 by MissBee

[Waverly]

People divorce all the time-its not ideal for the kids but if the family puts effort in to it-it can be minimized-

I don't understand why some think their situation is so unique that they can not divorce if they really want to be with another-

It is possible to love your children and still divorce-

Its an excuse plain and simple-

The people on here that realize this and move on (be they the WS, the BS or the AP) are much better off in the long run-

 

While I agree that it can be used as an excuse, I'm not sure that that's always the case. Do I think my children would be ok if I got divorced? Yes, hopefully, and I think there's a lot we could do to help ensure that that's the case. But no, it's not ideal. Beyond that though, there's also the motivation to just be with your kids full-time. My xAP and I both struggled a lot with that. Even if the thousands of miles between us weren't an issue, I'm not sure that either of us would ultimately have wanted to cut our time with our children in half. It's not an excuse, it's reality and a really tough decision.

[Speakingofwhich]

While I agree that it can be used as an excuse, I'm not sure that that's always the case. Do I think my children would be ok if I got divorced? Yes, hopefully, and I think there's a lot we could do to help ensure that that's the case. But no, it's not ideal. Beyond that though, there's also the motivation to just be with your kids full-time. My xAP and I both struggled a lot with that. Even if the thousands of miles between us weren't an issue, I'm not sure that either of us would ultimately have wanted to cut our time with our children in half. It's not an excuse, it's reality and a really tough decision.

 

My ex H lives twenty minutes from me and sharing the kids with him was a nightmare for several reasons. The kids hated it, too. It's not easy to live out of two different homes. Most adults don't have to do this in the case of D but that's part of what ends up being the case for children of D parents.

 

Plus, if one of the parents is relationally challenged the person who usually ran interference is no longer available to do so. Thinking of many different instances where my kids didn't have access to clothing they wanted to wear, where the step mom cut my adolescent son's hair though he protested (he had an apptmt with a hair cutter set up) wrote her name inside of his underwear to identify they were the pants to stay at her house. Stuff like that. She had no sense and my kids were the ones who suffered.

Thinking of an instance where my son was just getting started playing softball and nervously waiting for his turn at bat when my H approached the bench where the players sat, perched right up next to my son and began a a talk with him about why he wasn't getting along with his step mom. Those are just a few of the instances that made my kids' lives difficult after the D.

 

This doesn't even begin to chronicle the grief they went through during the actual split up. I never would have thought my exH (and his new wife) would have turned out to be such an emotional neanderthal in interactions with our kids but it happened. Over and over and over again.

 

Divorce is a nightmare for kids, and often not easy for the adults involved, either.

 

However, folks, including me at one time, who've never been through it are clueless as to how it can impact the children.

 

What ended up happening in our case was that my ex H, who was a great dad while we were M, became estranged from his children for 18 years. No one, including me, would ever have predicted that as he'd been such a great hands-on dad before.

 

Makes sense to think twice before you D, yes, for the kids' sakes!

[AlwaysGrowing]

the two posts above highlight exactly that.

 

Yes people do divorce and love their kids

 

But I do not want to put my children through that right now, and neither does my AP.

 

Instead of scorning the idea that people stay for the children, perhaps we should afford them some respect...that they are trying to do the right thing by their children.

 

In my situation , i did not see my AP as making excuses , it was a joint decision we made about all our children.

 

However, for him it is proving harder than we imagined.

 

The issue that I would have with this thought process is that, is it your right to make decisions for all "our" children?

 

It appears that two of the four parents had their rights taken from them.

[jellybean89]

Agree with your thoughts on D. If one hasn't been through it, it seems to be a predictable neat little package a person can pull out and implement if/when one is no longer happy with their M.

 

Divorce is anything but neat and/or predictable! It can be and often is horrific and unpredictable, family skewing, mind altering, financially crippling, emotionally draining, and extremely painful! It's not something you do without a lot of planning, forethought and gut wrenching courage.

 

Divorce is an awful thing for adults to go through but for the children it's 1000X worse, even in the best case scenarios. Many children of D seem to be handling it fine, only to find out in adulthood they're just beginning to process the fallout from their parents' divorce.

 

So, when posters scorn the phrase, "staying for the children" as not being a credible reason to stay in a M, imho, they are speaking out of naivete and ignorance.

 

Also, speaking from the experience of having been through divorce I can tell you that going through one is totally different than it appears to be by observing someone else go through one. Until you've been through a divorce, you are clueless as to what the actual experience is like.

 

However, if there is child abuse going on, that's a different story. A couple needs to do whatever it takes to protect children and if they're being abused then measures need to be taken immediately to keep them safe.

 

How do you know that there aren't many of us here who have divorced, with kids?? Why do you assume we don't know about divorce, the process, the effects, etc? I think you are trying to find an excuse...cause divorce is so so hard. It can be emotionally draining, exhilarating, incredible soul crushing and/or just another day. The point is people DO divorce -- many without an affair partner waiting in the wings! Those are the harder divorces...wondering about financial issues, child issues, etc. but in so many cases here on LS, the AP is waiting there to be the soft landing! That is why so many of us do not share the "omg how could he divorce, it's so hard" logic.

 

You and others keep talking about these poor kids, how dealing with a divorce would be so so tragic and yet, more times than not, the cheating parent is off with the affair partner instead of with the kids, off on get always with the affair partner, spending hours texting,calling the affair partner. All those wasted hours could be better spent on the kids the cheating parent uses as a shield.

 

Considering 50% of marriages end in divorce, I'm betting having parents who haven't divorced is more of a stigma on kids than having divorced parents. Divorce is a part of almost every persons life -- either family or friends. It's not the black mark it once was.

 

As for the implication that a person must be "sure" before divorcing -- really? Like having an affair and saying you love your affair partner isn't enough to know you want out of your marriage? Or are the cheating participants just having a FWB situation? How does a person say "I love you" but decide to stay married? What a huge slap in the face.

[jellybean89]

the two posts above highlight exactly that.

 

Yes people do divorce and love their kids

 

But I do not want to put my children through that right now, and neither does my AP.

 

Instead of scorning the idea that people stay for the children, perhaps we should afford them some respect...that they are trying to do the right thing by their children.

 

In my situation , i did not see my AP as making excuses , it was a joint decision we made about all our children.

 

However, for him it is proving harder than we imagined.

 

How is it the right thing to be having an affair and exposing the children to a d day? How is that better for kids than a divorce? You are already risking huge huge ramifications by cheating...but divorce is worse? Ask any kid who has had to deal with finding out about their parents infidelity and betrayal and I bet they will say they would have preferred their parent to just divorce.

[Sub]

Instead of scorning the idea that people stay for the children, perhaps we should afford them some respect...that they are trying to do the right thing by their children.

 

I understand the realities of D and the pain it causes kids. But to carry on an A instead of planning to D with the rationale being "I don't want to put my kids through that" is disingenuous, IMO. I consider it a forgone conclusion that nobody would want to cause their children any sort of suffering. And I'm sure you love your kids more than anything. But you're having an affair. NOW is when you decide that you don't want to put your kids through that and "do the right thing"? At least consider what you'd potentially put them through if/when they discover you've had an A in addition to potentially getting a D anyway because of that A.

[notserene]

You and others keep talking about these poor kids, how dealing with a divorce would be so so tragic and yet, more times than not, the cheating parent is off with the affair partner instead of with the kids, off on get always with the affair partner, spending hours texting,calling the affair partner. All those wasted hours could be better spent on the kids the cheating parent uses as a shield.

 

 

I can only respect "staying for the kids" if the WS ends the affair and focuses on his/her family, regardless of how he or she feels about the spouse.

[2sunny]

the two posts above highlight exactly that.

 

Yes people do divorce and love their kids

 

But I do not want to put my children through that right now, and neither does my AP.

 

Instead of scorning the idea that people stay for the children, perhaps we should afford them some respect...that they are trying to do the right thing by their children.

 

In my situation , i did not see my AP as making excuses , it was a joint decision we made about all our children.

 

However, for him it is proving harder than we imagined.

 

Parents doing what is RIGHT for the children would never engage in any affair.

 

You seem to have proper order mixed up.

 

Proper order would be NEVER having an affair - or getting divorced BEFORE starting another relationship.

 

I highly doubt the kids feelings were considered the top priority when the affair started.

 

Stop and think about it - if kids come first - there would be no affair. Affairs hurt many! Even time away to connect with the AP is time stolen from the wife/husband and/or the kids!

[gettingstronger]

Its an excuse in that- I have no choice but to have an affair that risks my marriage and by extension my childrens home life because divorce is just too difficult on the kids-come on now, really- if you are going to suck it up for the kids then suck it up whole hog and end your affair- if you are married and your AP is not, stop stringing them along with the "for the kids"-set them free-you can see on this board there are so many S-OW that so want to be told the truth, so want you to get off the fence so do it-

[jwi71]

I'm not trying to be cruel. I truly want to make the right decision, and not so quickly. We said time apart would clear our heads, make sure we are doing the right thing...

 

If you no longer love your H and are ready to leave - then do so.

 

People file for D all the time. Even with children. I did. I had two, both under 6.

 

D is not some unforgivable, unrecoverable loss of childhood forever dooming children to a life a less fulfilling. What a load of crap.

 

It's a fantasy spun by cowards - so cowardly they hide behind their children. Plain and simple. Its an unfounded fear - an excuse really.

 

If you, or anyone, is concerned about the welfare of the children during a D - ASK. Not here. Professionals. Find a child psychologist in your area and ask THEM. Here's what you will hear: Children do NOT NEED married parents - they need INVOLVED parents.

 

To suggest otherwise completely ignores all the wonderful and successful children of SINGLE parents - whose lives are productive and happy.

[woinlove]

I think the OP's specific situation should be considered in arguments about "staying for the kids". Her children are teens, one of them discovered the affair, and one of them has explicitly told her mother that she doesn't want her stringing her father along if she wants to leave, she thinks her mother is waiting for MM to make his decision.

 

I get the impression that the children are old enough to not want their mother to use them as an excuse for how she is treating their father, as well as them. They know their family life is in limbo, there is no cohesive family unit, and they may just be strung along. One was basically crying out for the OP to treat the family with respect and take some responsibility. I think that is great advice. With the youngest child, 16 or 17?, fully aware of the affair and aware how much OM is factoring into her family life right now, I just don't see how "staying for the kids" is respecting and caring best for these teens.

[Dark Holy]

I'm not trying to be cruel. I truly want to make the right decision, and not so quickly. We said time apart would clear our heads, make sure we are doing the right thing...

 

Forgive me, but you don't. You want to make the decision that is most pleasurable for you.

 

Which you believe must coincide with the right decision.

 

Which is hilarious to me.

[Dark Holy]

the two posts above highlight exactly that.

 

Yes people do divorce and love their kids

 

But I do not want to put my children through that right now, and neither does my AP.

 

Instead of scorning the idea that people stay for the children, perhaps we should afford them some respect...that they are trying to do the right thing by their children.

 

In my situation , i did not see my AP as making excuses , it was a joint decision we made about all our children.

 

However, for him it is proving harder than we imagined.

 

I think that you are putting them through something worse than divorce.

[Nothisgirl]

Agree with your thoughts on D. If one hasn't been through it, it seems to be a predictable neat little package a person can pull out and implement if/when one is no longer happy with their M.

 

Divorce is anything but neat and/or predictable! It can be and often is horrific and unpredictable, family skewing, mind altering, financially crippling, emotionally draining, and extremely painful! It's not something you do without a lot of planning, forethought and gut wrenching courage.

 

Divorce is an awful thing for adults to go through but for the children it's 1000X worse, even in the best case scenarios. Many children of D seem to be handling it fine, only to find out in adulthood they're just beginning to process the fallout from their parents' divorce.

 

So, when posters scorn the phrase, "staying for the children" as not being a credible reason to stay in a M, imho, they are speaking out of naivete and ignorance.

 

Also, speaking from the experience of having been through divorce I can tell you that going through one is totally different than it appears to be by observing someone else go through one. Until you've been through a divorce, you are clueless as to what the actual experience is like.

 

However, if there is child abuse going on, that's a different story. A couple needs to do whatever it takes to protect children and if they're being abused then measures need to be taken immediately to keep them safe.

 

 

I have to respectfully disagree. I think staying for the kids is nothing but a great big excuse.

 

And I am an OW, who was a BS in my marriage and is now D with two young kids. So I'm not speaking out of naïveté or ignorance.

 

I'll tell you that my children are wonderfully adjusted and happy, now, admittedly my xH and I parent really well together and although he was a crappy H he's a wonderful father so I'm sure that has something do do with it..

 

Anyways, I digress, I think especially as the kids get older, like teenage years it's much more damaging to stay in a marriage where the spouses are "roommates" or don't get along rather than divorce and show them two healthy happy parents...just my 0.02.

 

OP, I agree with the posters that said if you know you don't want to e married you need to let your H go. It's very unfair and you're not doing anyone any favours, especially your children who already know about the A