ja123 Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Wow, RS. I just checked out that book, then googled "enmeshment parent child". (or also mother-daughter enmeshment, or mother-son enmeshment) That's some serious sh*t. Explains a lot to me in regard to my family. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
gaius Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 My ex told me years after our breakup (with some embarrassment) that he read a book called "Married to Mom", about grown men in enmeshed relationships with their mothers, and it helped a lot. When your mom invites you to do things you don't want to do, don't do it because you feel guilty about her being alone. If you keep filling the void of a man in her life, she'll never be motivated to find one. They have a bunch of different terms for it. I found a book about "covert incest" which basically seems to be the same concept pioneered by a different person. I don't think it's something most people understand. After somedude admitted his discomfort and how his mom was close to abusive as a kid the general consensus is still "gee, how could you not spend time with dear old mom"? 7 Link to post Share on other sites
ja123 Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 There's also a term in psychology called "triangulation" that is worth looking up. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ja123 Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 OP, I'm now starting to think that you're being smothered or "engulfed" by your mother, and that she's doing it for her needs not for yours. (not healthy) Do you really have to go to the graduation ceremony with her? I'm wondering: does she make you feel guilty or does she become angry or silent when you refuse one of her invitations? You might want to try reading Susan Forward's "Emotional Blackmail" or "Toxic Parents". Also individual counseling to help you overcome the impact of the parenting you received on your current status with dating women might be helpful. Good luck! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 My dad died around age 55. Appreciate the time you have with your mom. I get where you're coming from, and I know it must be painful. Just try to keep things in perspective. I'm sorry for your loss. My father passed away when I was 23. Last year my mom had cancer (she's in total remission), life is short, spend time with your mom..One day you may look back and wish you'd spent more time with her, got to know her outside of the mom/son realm and become 'friends'. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author somedude81 Posted April 23, 2014 Author Share Posted April 23, 2014 OP, I'm now starting to think that you're being smothered or "engulfed" by your mother, and that she's doing it for her needs not for yours. (not healthy) Do you really have to go to the graduation ceremony with her? I'm wondering: does she make you feel guilty or does she become angry or silent when you refuse one of her invitations? You might want to try reading Susan Forward's "Emotional Blackmail" or "Toxic Parents". Also individual counseling to help you overcome the impact of the parenting you received on your current status with dating women might be helpful. Good luck! I want to go to the graduation thing and visit my aunt and cousins. I've never been to their place in Oregon. I don't want to drive with my mom. My choice is either to fly myself up or go with my mom. And right now I'm not working. No she doesn't become angry or try to guilt me (that much) when I refuse her. Though I would still feel guilty for refusing certain things. I really don't like the fact that she "fallowed" me to SoCal even though it really was to be closer to her mom. I'm just going to have to refuse her invitations more often. Link to post Share on other sites
ja123 Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Sounds good. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Tiger Lily Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I'm sorry for your loss. My father passed away when I was 23. Last year my mom had cancer (she's in total remission), life is short, spend time with your mom..One day you may look back and wish you'd spent more time with her, got to know her outside of the mom/son realm and become 'friends'. Oh man, you were so young when you lost your dad. I'm sorry. I think your comment about becoming friends with your parent is so relevant and true. Adult parent/child relationships can hopefully (ideally) change into something totally different than what they were as a kid. First, I think it takes a significant amount of growth and independence on the child's part, before a parent can even see a child as more of a confidant. I do think somedude has to establish his boundaries, and then develop a more friendship-based relationship with his mom that he is comfortable with. Link to post Share on other sites
Fugu Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I get it. As a young guy, it's just not cool to be seen hangin out with mom, especially if you're in your 20s or 30s. I've been there. I love my mom, but people automatically equate a guy hanging out with his mom as some sort of Oedipal Complex loser. I think it's an American thing. I didn't feel this way when I was traveling with my mother overseas. I would still just try to appreciate the time that you have with your mom. A mother's love is something special. Try to stand on your own and get a lady of your own, but respect your mother and give her reasonable attention. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I love my mom, but people automatically equate a guy hanging out with his mom as some sort of Oedipal Complex loser. I think it's an American thing. Do people really think that way? I don't, at all. Obviously there are some things that do fall into 'weird' category, like spending hours with her every single day, or sharing a bed with her - but just spending time with her on a semi-regular basis seems like standard loving son behaviour. To be fair, I'm not American, though. What really turns me off in terms of men and their mothers are men who are chronologically adults but still reliant on mommy. She cooks for them, irons their shirt, pays their bills, dictates all the decisions they make... Those are 'men' whom I don't wish to have anything to do with. Link to post Share on other sites
FitChick Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Take a lot of flattering pix of your mom on these trips, then help her write her dating profile. I bet she gets a boyfriend before you get a girlfriend. Link to post Share on other sites
Author somedude81 Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 Take a lot of flattering pix of your mom on these trips, then help her write her dating profile. I bet she gets a boyfriend before you get a girlfriend. There's no reason why she doesn't have a boyfriend now, except that she's not trying. I would basically have to write her profile for her to get her started. Link to post Share on other sites
ASG Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Do people really think that way? I don't, at all. Obviously there are some things that do fall into 'weird' category, like spending hours with her every single day, or sharing a bed with her - but just spending time with her on a semi-regular basis seems like standard loving son behaviour. To be fair, I'm not American, though. What really turns me off in terms of men and their mothers are men who are chronologically adults but still reliant on mommy. She cooks for them, irons their shirt, pays their bills, dictates all the decisions they make... Those are 'men' whom I don't wish to have anything to do with. That was my dad! My gran would even put toothpaste on his toothbrush! Suffice it to say, my gran wasn't the biggest fan of my mom, since she was having none of that nonsense (obviously!). It took a while, but a few years later my dad was completely self sufficient! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
littleplanet Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 If you are raised to be an independent adult - then that's what you will become. I don't get all the guilt crap. If you leave home to have a life with a significant other, then that's what you aim to do, and retracting back into something that feels like/reminds you of - childhood.......is really going to suck. If you were in a good relationship, and within the structures of that relationship went and visited and spent time with your mother - you would feel totally different than you do now. Your mother can not replace what you need in your life, nor should she. It's kinda weird. My mom raised me to be a man, not a momma's boy. It was really just that simple. It never would have occurred to her to place demands on me that transgressed that agenda. If I had so progressed in my life to ever wind up in a situation where her company was replacing a relationship I should have had.......I'm sure she would have booted me away. Told me in no uncertain terms, to just go and get a life. Again. You left home to go have a normal life. Which is what you'd be having if your relationship hadn't failed. Success in replacing what you lost.........will never happen by hanging out with your mother. And I can certainly understand why you would resent your position. That's normal. Perhaps.......if you have to "leave" all over again - then that's what you have to do. Until all that is addressed, you may not be able to truly enjoy her company, and relax and accept her for herself. Link to post Share on other sites
gaius Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 I'll take her off your hands for you if she has nice hair somedude. Sounds just like my mom and all the women I date end up turning out like that. Link to post Share on other sites
hotpotato Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Ill dissent and say this wasnt appropriate. It sounds like she is using you as a substitute boyfriend. She needs to develop her own social circle. She is parentizing you. Ive seen my mom do things like this with myself and my brother. Its good to spend time with mom, but I can understand how spending an entire weekend with her would make you uncomfortable. Link to post Share on other sites
hotpotato Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 (edited) They have a bunch of different terms for it. I found a book about "covert incest" which basically seems to be the same concept pioneered by a different person. I don't think it's something most people understand. After somedude admitted his discomfort and how his mom was close to abusive as a kid the general consensus is still "gee, how could you not spend time with dear old mom"? Most people havent dealt with abuse/neglect, and dont understand that spending too much time with a parent as an adult is very detrimental. Ive seen this first hand. My mom and brother slept in the same bed until he was at least 10. Shes very kind to him but very mean to me. Those of us who have btdt have been to therapy and/or done the research. I wouldnt be surprise if mom was giving off sexual vibes which could be why somedude compared being with her to being with a girlfriend. Thats why one name for this is uncomsummated incest. There are a few names for it enmeshment covert incest unconsummated incest parentizing Edited May 10, 2014 by hotpotato Link to post Share on other sites
Itspointless Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Most people havent dealt with abuse/neglect, and dont understand that spending too much time with a parent as an adult is very detrimental. Of-course, but be aware that people also can have other experiences that were ****ed up as well. Situations that make them in the end say the opposite of what you guys are saying. I think we all - well at least most of us - try to gave Somedude as many perspectives as possible. For example I lost my mother in my teens. the first thing I personally thought of is the chance spending time with her. My last memories consist of taking care of her. She coudn't move, coudn't speak and was already for some years in constant pain. Everyone around me was stressed out, and neglected the emotions of the others. So yes, I do know what it is like to be neglected. Still from my perspective I say to somedude, imagine if it would be different or better manageble if you imagine that she would be already dead, or dead in a really short time. My reality is that my mother has been gone now for almost half my life. Link to post Share on other sites
hotpotato Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Of-course, but be aware that people also can have other experiences that were ****ed up as well. Situations that make them in the end say the opposite of what you guys are saying. I think we all - well at least most of us - try to gave Somedude as many perspectives as possible. For example I lost my mother in my teens. the first thing I personally thought of is the chance spending time with her. My last memories consist of taking care of her. She coudn't move, coudn't speak and was already for some years in constant pain. Everyone around me was stressed out, and neglected the emotions of the others. So yes, I do know what it is like to be neglected. Still from my perspective I say to somedude, imagine if it would be different or better manageble if you imagine that she would be already dead, or dead in a really short time. My reality is that my mother has been gone now for almost half my life. Neglected because she was sick? At least she had a valid reason. I could give some stories of some purposeful neglect, but I wont... Anyway, spending time with mom is not all or nothing. He can spend time with her in a manner that is not comparable to dating her and does not cross his boundaries. What they did sounds a lot like what i have done in the past with an ex. He doesnt need to be spending weekends with her. He should be out with his peers, pursuing his own interests, etc. Somedude is a grown man who is searching for a romantic companion. He shouldnt be s pending so much time with mom because mom doesnt have a spouse or a social circle. Link to post Share on other sites
Itspointless Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Neglected because she was sick? At least she had a valid reason. No. I was speaking about the consequences that almost all attention of everyone went to her those years. It is in fact a very logical thing happening. Plus my father was more of a child than a father back then. It is only recently that there is more attention to this in research as it also immensely influences development. See for example: Children with dying parents should get more support | ScienceNordic And yes it is a very very different from the sort of neglect you are speaking about. I also agree with you. As I said earlier in this thread boundaries are always important. Link to post Share on other sites
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