Hot-cold, and becoming addictive to your partner.

[Anela]

Can't like this enough!

 

That used to be the story of my life, particularly the idea that the miserable deprived place feels comfy. That is often the worse part. You hate it, but you're also so used to it and it's your comfort zone so you just keep choosing it like a masochist.

 

However, it does get exhausting and depletes you.

 

Yep. I have gone through periods where I couldn't see things getting better in any way. Then things would improve a bit, I'd be feeling happier and more optimistic, only for things to take a significant downturn. I'm talking about all sorts of things here, not just a situation with a man.

 

I was ashamed, because my situation with the man I mentioned before, only happened because I was so isolated. If I'd had more of a normal life, had friends, and been going out, had a job that I couldn't be distracted from, etc - it never would have happened. I was doing just fine, until he left me doubting myself (due to what I've just mentioned). I was sweet and shy, optimistic; so now, if I'm a snappy b*tch, it's because I don't put up with much anymore.

[jphcbpa]

Can't like this enough!

 

That used to be the story of my life, particularly the idea that the miserable deprived place feels comfy. That is often the worse part. You hate it, but you're also so used to it and it's your comfort zone so you just keep choosing it like a masochist.

 

However, it does get exhausting and depletes you.

 

You know that saying, "wow, I feel like I have known you my whole life..." Yes, I have...you remind me of my father. That is why I pick avoidant women to reenact my childhood with my distant father. At least today I know this and awareness is half the battle. It feels comfy and cozy to my inner child who was abandoned.

[KaliLove]

If you know that your partner does it to you, why do are you with him?

 

Would I be wrong in assuming that you enjoy it? If not you'd be with a guy who doesn't do it.

 

A lot of people who date BPD/NPDers are combating issues from childhood. It's not necessarily that they enjoy it but a lot of the time it's just what they're used to.

[Anela]

I'm reading a book about BPD right now, but that's for a different thread really... I think? I think the title is Loving Someone with BPD - I'll have to go and get it. I don't have BPD, I have something else going on, but I can relate to what has been written about what a BPD person goes through emotionally. I don't like that people with BPD are made out to be monsters - I have a friend with BPD, who also had a stroke, and she isn't a monster - not even close.

[Radu]

Interesting, I never heard that there was a connection with BPD.

 

So a person that naturally does push/pull could have BPD?

 

What kind of person would be susceptible to sticking with a person who does it?

 

Hot-Cold is a byproduct of BPD, because BPD is mostly about an inability to regulate emotions.

In essence, the BPD-er, cannot reconcile the fact that a person can be both good and bad, so they 'split' them ... well, they actually put them in the 'evil' or 'good' box, depending on the situation at hand.

If they see it as 'evil', then they fully believe you are evil, in which case all bets are off.

If they see you as 'good', then you are fully good, in which case you are Jesus incarnate.

From this, there is no such thing as an ideal position for them to hold in a relationship.

In a relationship with them, you will either be too close to them, in which case they feel that you are engulfing them, suffocating them [are too needy] so they will pull away ... or, they will feel that you are too far from them, abandoning them, in which case they will go nuts with getting you close to them.

You always fluctuate between the two, without finding the sweet spot.

If they are high-functioning [they can hide it in public], then they will pretend it's not an issue during the initial phase of the relationship.

 

So, for them, the manipulation effect that comes with the hold-cold behaviour is a byproduct of their inability to regulate their emotions, of the fact that deep down they have the emotional maturity of a 5yr old.

 

----

 

What your professor described, can be used in a conscious way [not instinctual] ... and it was described here how.

 

One more thing though, in general, the lower your EQ [emotional intelligence], the more likely it is for you to fall for these games of hot-cold.

[regine_phalange]

I've unconsciously done it to someone in the past. Not to make him fall in love with me, but because I was confused. I felt a lot of affection for him, and it came out naturally. But I knew the relationship wouldn't work, after him breaking my trust. So I constantly pulled away. And I would stay away if he didn't reach out for me every time. He was addicted to the affection and the good times. And I was missing him also, but after a while I would feel uneasy because of the lack of trust. After a point, I realized what was happening, and how it seemed like I gave him a hot-cold shower. I felt a lot of guilt, and stopped all contact. By the way I was feeling horrible during this period also, and wouldn't want to have a similar experience in the future.

[somedude81]

What bugs me the most right now is women who stay in relationships where the guy is doing the hold/cold thing to them, and the women refuse to leave. It's my main "thing" right now and I'm seeing it everywhere.

 

Now that I think about it, my first and only GF, was most likely in a relationship with a guy who was doing the same thing to her. She was with him for three years, and even though she said that it had been bad and unhealthy for a year and a half she didn't leave. Not until she met me. And of course, I didn't do the hot/cold thing to her, and she dumped me after six months..................

 

I hate how women would rather stay with a guy who is obviously bad for her, instead of trying to find a new that that will treat her right.

[Frank2thepoint]

My first ex-girlfriend was manipulative and pulled this hot/cold technique on me. I was young and dumb, first serious relationship, with bright eyes and a big heart. It worked like magic on me. She'd show a minimal amount of affection, some surreptitious alluring glances, even play coy, and I would be so mesmerized. Then she would go completely cold, not look me in the eyes, not touch me, and worst of all, flirt openly with other guys. Even when I'd try to touch her, hug her, she would pull away as if my touch would bring on pain and disgust. I would try almost anything to regain that inkling of attention, buy her gifts, compliment her, only to have my reward of a moment of attention back.

 

After ten months of that, I was completely drained, in shambles emotionally, and completely disillusioned about relationships and love. I guess something primal awoke in me, pure survival, and I broke up with her. The most unbelievable thing happened. She was showering me the most attention I have ever experienced in that relationship. She initiated kissed, hugs, looking in my eyes with affection, anything just to not lose me. Oh what a sucker I was, partially. Between the elation of having this new affection (or some dumb delusion that I had broken through to her) and my primal instincts wanting me to run away, I was very confused, torn, and cried from the emotional pain. She reverted back to her usual antics during this brief period of joy for me, and I finally broke it off.

 

I learned the valuable lesson that this hot-cold tactic was all in my head, playing on my desires. When I allowed self-respect to guide me, I had no problem walking away. A very painful lesson.

[KathyM]

There is a healthy alternative to being hot-cold as a way to develop attraction. It involves building a life that has other interests and passions and people to share your life with in non-romantic ways, so that you are not always available, always 100% only focused on your partner. No one likes to be suffocated or feel like they are your whole life, except for very needy people. The healthy solution to build an attraction from others is to have a more integrated life with a lot going on in your life other than just a romantic relationship with someone. Women admire a man who has other things going on, other passions, other interests, other friends. Being hot-cold will just turn off the women with high self esteem, and make the women with low self esteem feel bad about themselves.

[somedude81]

My first ex-girlfriend was manipulative and pulled this hot/cold technique on me. I was young and dumb, first serious relationship, with bright eyes and a big heart. It worked like magic on me. She'd show a minimal amount of affection, some surreptitious alluring glances, even play coy, and I would be so mesmerized. Then she would go completely cold, not look me in the eyes, not touch me, and worst of all, flirt openly with other guys. Even when I'd try to touch her, hug her, she would pull away as if my touch would bring on pain and disgust. I would try almost anything to regain that inkling of attention, buy her gifts, compliment her, only to have my reward of a moment of attention back.

 

After ten months of that, I was completely drained, in shambles emotionally, and completely disillusioned about relationships and love. I guess something primal awoke in me, pure survival, and I broke up with her. The most unbelievable thing happened. She was showering me the most attention I have ever experienced in that relationship. She initiated kissed, hugs, looking in my eyes with affection, anything just to not lose me. Oh what a sucker I was, partially. Between the elation of having this new affection (or some dumb delusion that I had broken through to her) and my primal instincts wanting me to run away, I was very confused, torn, and cried from the emotional pain. She reverted back to her usual antics during this brief period of joy for me, and I finally broke it off.

 

I learned the valuable lesson that this hot-cold tactic was all in my head, playing on my desires. When I allowed self-respect to guide me, I had no problem walking away. A very painful lesson.

Wow, that's pretty crazy. And it worked on you.

 

I wonder if she was doing it intentionally. She almost seemed to panic when she thought she was going to lose you. Very interesting.

 

Thanks for sharing.

[Anela]

With the right person, you won't have to do a hot/cold manipulation. If you and your ex had been a good match, then you wouldn't think that you needed to do something like this to keep her around.

[somedude81]

With the right person, you won't have to do a hot/cold manipulation. If you and your ex had been a good match, then you wouldn't think that you needed to do something like this to keep her around.

Nobody who ever saw my ex and I together would say that we weren't a good match.

 

Though she had her issues, mostly stemming from her previous relationship, which left me getting burned.

 

What confuses me the most is that she always treated me so good. She never did any of this hot/cold stuff, and I was addicted to her. Then one day she just left.

Edited April 23, 2014 by somedude81

[Anela]

If you need manipulation to keep someone around, then you are not a good match. Your ex decided that you weren't. to consider doing this to hold onto someone is cruel.

[somedude81]

If you need manipulation to keep someone around, then you are not a good match. Your ex decided that you weren't. to consider doing this to hold onto someone is cruel.

Me being cruel? Give me a break.

 

I don't know that the hell my ex was thinking back then. It doesn't matter now.

[melell]

I don't agree with doing it intentionally, but I do agree that it does seem to intensify the other persons interest.

 

I am hot and cold much of the time, not intentionally but it is seen like that. I like to be very involved and offer what I can, but I do tend to retreat and become distant often... I personally feel a big need to be alone and take a break from participating in things/life, and partners see this as me being cold, or uninterested.

When I return to the 'usual' it is as though their enthusiasm for me has increased a lot.

 

It is dysfunctional imo though- they perceive it as the relationship is some how under threat, when really it isn't- I am just having time out.

I really try to not do this because it does make things unhealthy-the other person always ends up feeling insecure in the situation, which really isn't good even if it means they are 'under the thumb'.

 

Completely agree with the concept in the op though, just think isn't a good thing in romantic settings.

 

I don't have bpd btw.

[somedude81]

I don't agree with doing it intentionally, but I do agree that it does seem to intensify the other persons interest.

 

I am hot and cold much of the time, not intentionally but it is seen like that. I like to be very involved and offer what I can, but I do tend to retreat and become distant often... I personally feel a big need to be alone and take a break from participating in things/life, and partners see this as me being cold, or uninterested.

When I return to the 'usual' it is as though their enthusiasm for me has increased a lot.

 

It is dysfunctional imo though- they perceive it as the relationship is some how under threat, when really it isn't- I am just having time out.

I really try to not do this because it does make things unhealthy-the other person always ends up feeling insecure in the situation, which really isn't good even if it means they are 'under the thumb'.

 

Completely agree with the concept in the op though, just think isn't a good thing in romantic settings.

 

I don't have bpd btw.

Interesting, so you just do it naturally and it increases their interest.

 

What does you retreating look like? Do you not return calls or texts? Or do you just say you're not up to getting together?

 

As for BPD, I believe it makes the hot/cold thing more extreme. Where the person can range from sweet to rude, and their partner never knows what to expect and always on edge.

[melell]

Interesting, so you just do it naturally and it increases their interest.

 

What does you retreating look like? Do you not return calls or texts? Or do you just say you're not up to getting together?

 

As for BPD, I believe it makes the hot/cold thing more extreme. Where the person can range from sweet to rude, and their partner never knows what to expect and always on edge.

The on edge part I think describes it well- I really do think it makes the other person feel insecure.

 

Yep- sometimes not returning texts/calls, or when living together I might just go quiet, or plan a trip away for a few days that doesn't include them. It is like checking out of the relationship to be alone.. I go to trouble to reassure them now though, but I think it still leaves them feeling uncomfortable.

 

It is nothing to do with not wanting them, or not wanting the situation, purely a personal thing.

[readynow]

I sometimes do this too but definitely not to manipulate. Like Mel said, I just need time out and many times, the bf thinks he's losing me and stumbles all over himself to 'win' my heart back. This happened in my last few long term relationships and it did seem to keep them interested.

 

It's sad because my heart went no where, I just need space to breathe and get back into myself after which I'll be back to be my loving self again.

 

I've now learned to communicate this to my bf. He knows that I need time sometimes and he is not to worry. I let him know that i'm going to be away (or very quiet) for a few days for some me time but I love you and I WILL be back.

[Frank2thepoint]

Wow, that's pretty crazy. And it worked on you.

 

I wonder if she was doing it intentionally. She almost seemed to panic when she thought she was going to lose you. Very interesting.

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

Yes it worked very well on me. It was my first serious relationship and for my ex-girlfriend it was her second. We were both 20 years old. She knew the tricks to play. I remember during the relationship her mother openly advocated for a woman to flirt with other men. She didn't see nothing wrong with it, it was harmless play. That explained why her mother and father during the course of their relationship before getting married, would be on-and-off, and after marriage they often threatened each other to divorce. My ex learned from the best, and seeing that even though her parents had rough patches, and continued to play games well within their marriage, they were still together. She figured it was a good tactic, maybe the only, to use.

 

During the near end of the relationship, when I was confused as to what to finally do, her father decided to give me some advice. He said I should spend more money on her, get her more gifts to win her daughter's heart back. I was so shocked and disgusted with that advice I realized the entire family was f*cked up in the head. That little talk solidified my decision to walk away for good.

 

So yes I know my ex did it intentionally because she witnessed it work with her parents. When I turned the tables by ending the relationship, she panicked because her way of operating wasn't working any longer on me.

[jphcbpa]

I sometimes do this too but definitely not to manipulate. Like Mel said, I just need time out and many times, the bf thinks he's losing me and stumbles all over himself to 'win' my heart back. This happened in my last few long term relationships and it did seem to keep them interested.

 

It's sad because my heart went no where, I just need space to breathe and get back into myself after which I'll be back to be my loving self again.

 

I've now learned to communicate this to my bf. He knows that I need time sometimes and he is not to worry. I let him know that i'm going to be away (or very quiet) for a few days for some me time but I love you and I WILL be back.

 

this is wonderful that you know this about yourself and you communicate it clearly with your partner. keep doing that...keep it in front of you.

[jphcbpa]

interesting read...

 

Addicted to Chasing Unavailable Lovers: Outer Child is a Notorious Abandoholic

© Susan Anderson 2010

Outer Child is a Notorious Abandoholic

What is Abandoholism?

You’ve heard of food-oholism, work-oholism, shop-oholism and, of course, alcoholism. Now here comes another, most insidious, addictive pattern – abandoholism.

Abandoholism is Outer Child’s tendency to become attracted to unavailable partners. Abandoholism is one of Outer’s most insidious patterns, and it is shared by millions.

Abandoholism is similar to the other “oholisms,” but instead of being addicted to a substance, you’re addicted to the emotional drama of heartbreak. You pursue hard-to-get partners to keep the romantic intensity going, and to keep your body’s love-chemicals and stress hormones flowing – an intoxicating brew to which you become both physically and emotionally addicted.

What makes someone an abandoholic?

Abandoholism sets in when you’ve been hurt so many times that you’ve come to equate insecurity with love. When your wires get crossed like this, unless you’re pursuing someone you’re insecure about, you don’t feel in love.

Conversely, when someone comes along who wants to be with you, that person’s availability fails to arouse the required level of insecurity. If you can’t feel those yearning, lovesick feelings, then you don’t feel attracted. Your Outer Child has taken hold and got you caught up in a pattern of pursuing unavailable partners. You’ve become neuro-biologically addicted to the high stakes drama of an emotional challenge and the love-chemicals that go with it.

 

 

This abandonment compulsion is insidious. You didn’t know it was developing. Until now you didn’t have a name for it: Abandoholism is a new concept.

Insecurity is an aphrodisiac.

If you are a hard-core abandoholic, you’re drawn to a kind of love that is highly combustible. The hottest sex is when you’re trying to seduce a hard-to-get lover. Insecurity becomes your favorite aphrodisiac. These intoxicated states are produced when you sense emotional danger – the danger of your lover’s potential to abandon you just when you start to attach.

At the other end of the seesaw, you start to turn off and shut down when you happen to successfully win someone’s love. If your lover succumbs to your charms – heaven forbid – you suddenly feel too comfortable, too sure of him to stay interested. There’s not enough challenge to sustain your sexual energy. You interpret your turn-off as his not being right for you.

How about following your gut?

If you’re an abandoholic, following your gut is probably what got you into this mess in the first place. Your gut gets you to pursue someone who makes your heart go pitter pat, not because he’s the right one, but because he arouses your subliminal fear of abandonment. And your gut gets you to avoid someone who is truly trustworthy, because he doesn’t press the right insecurity-buttons to create the aphrodisiac.

Enrich your mind. Follow your wisdom. But until you overcome your abandonment compulsion, don’t follow your gut – it will only get you into trouble – because your gut tells you that unavailable people are attractive.

The emotional pendulum swing

Abandoholism is driven by both fear of abandonment and its correlate fear of engulfment.

Fear of abandonment: When you’re attracted to someone, it arouses a fear of losing that person. This fear causes you to become clingy and needy. You try to hide your insecurity, but your desperation shows through, causing your partners to lose romantic interest in you. They sense your emotional suction cups[1][1] aiming straight toward them and it they run to avoid getting trapped (engulfed).

Fear of engulfment: at the opposite end of the spectrum. It occurs when someone is pursuing you and now you’re the one pulling back. You feel engulfed by that person’s desire to be with you. When fear of engulfment kicks in, your sexual and romantic feelings shut down. You no longer feel the connection. You panic – it’s about your fear of being engulfed by the other person’s emotional expectations of you. You fear that the other person’s feelings will pressure you to abandon other potential romantic options.

Fear of engulfment is one of the most common causes for the demise of new relationships, but it is carefully disguised in excuses like: "He just doesn’t turn me on." Or "I don’t feel any chemistry." Or "S/he’s too nice to hold my interest." Or "I need more of a challenge."

Abandoholics tend to swing back and forth between fear of abandonment and fear of engulfment. You’re either pursuing hard-to-get-lovers, or you’re feeling turned off by someone who IS interested in you.

What is Abandophobism?

Abandophobics are so afraid of rejection that they avoid relationships altogether.

Abandophobics act out their fear of abandonment by remaining socially isolated, or by appearing to search for someone, when in fact they are pursuing people who are truly unattainable, all to avoid the risk of getting attached to a real prospect – someone who might abandon them sooner or later.

There is a little abandophobism in every abandoholic; the two outer child patterns can be interchangeable.

For both abandoholics and abandophobics, a negative attraction is more compelling than a positive one.

You only feel attracted when you’re in pursuit. You wouldn’t join any club who would have you as a member, so you’re always reaching for someone out of reach.

How do abandoholism and abandophobism set in?

These patterns may have been cast in childhood. You struggled to get more attention from your parents but you were left feeling unfulfilled, which caused you to doubt your self-worth. Over time, you internalized this craving for approval and you learned to idealize others at your own expense. This became a pattern in your love-relationships.

Now as an adult, you recreate this scenario by giving your love-partners all your power, elevating them above yourself, recreating those old familiar yearnings you grew accustomed to as a child. Feeling emotionally deprived and "less-than" is what you’ve come to expect.

Why does the insecurity linger?

Recent scientific research shows that rather than dissipate, fear tends to incubate, gaining intensity over time. Insecurity increases with each romantic rejection, causing you to look to others for something you’ve become too powerless to give yourself: esteem. When you seek acceptance from a withholding partner, you place yourself in a one-down position, recreating the unequal dynamics you had with your parents or peers. You choreograph this scenario over and over. It becomes a repetition compulsion, otherwise known as an ‘Outer Child Pattern.’

[KathyM]

So in other words, the women you would attract with this tactic is women with abandonment issues from childhood or women with low self esteem. Or women with BPD. Not a good strategy to have to secure a good relationship.